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Speaking of Bitterblossom in Legacy, did anything ever come of that weird Goblin Bombardment deck? It was big news at like one major tournament and then was never seen again.
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Jan 5, 2014 08:03
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JerryLee posted:Speaking of Bitterblossom in Legacy, did anything ever come of that weird Goblin Bombardment deck? It was big news at like one major tournament and then was never seen again. I always thought that the zombie bombardment deck was just a rouge brew Sam Black made for a tournament, did well, and then abandoned it?
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Jan 5, 2014 08:09
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Jenx posted:I always thought that the zombie bombardment deck was just a rouge brew Sam Black made for a tournament, did well, and then abandoned it? Well, yeah, that's sort of why I'm asking. Did well, people seemed to love the idea of it, then everyone dropped it like hot garbage.
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Jan 5, 2014 08:15
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RTR came in and people started playing Legacy Jund with 4 Deathrites, as well as jamming Rest In Peace in every white deck's sideboard. Shut off the graveyard and that deck doesn't have much of a chance, it's a victim of what I like to call "collateral hate". If you are making a brew, one of your biggest advantages is catching your opponent unprepared and giving them the chance to sideboard incorrectly. If your brew is vulnerable to commonly played hate cards that were put in there to fight a different deck, then you've given up that advantage and should probably consider another deck.
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Jan 5, 2014 09:09
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I'm ScarletBro on Cockatrice and I'm down for some modern testing.
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Jan 5, 2014 19:02
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KasaiAisu posted:So I've been wanting to play faeries in Legacy because I love bitterblossom, been tinkering around with a decklist: I'd say first of all that you need more and better cantrips than just 3 Git Pro. Brainstorm (with fetches) and ponder are in most blue decks for a reason: because they give you so much better consistency, of a level that you really can't match with redundancy unless you're so redundant that you're playing burn, and almost every card in your deck does the same thing. Ancestral doesn't quite do it because it's not on demand, and you aren't cascading into it. It's a good card, but having to wait 4 turns every time really hurts it. More options, at least in the SB, for equipment would be good too. Sword of Fire and Ice has gotten much better now that TNN is on the scene because of how much it helped UWR delver, and Feast and Famine is good against Jund and often better than Jitte against combo. I know you said you don't want to pony up for Bob, but he would probably be be good for the deck (though maybe he isn't necessary), and having access to FoW somewhere in the 75 is probably correct. It's expensive, but it's an effect that you cannot replace with any other card. B also gives you access to Liliana of the Veil, who I feel is better when you're being more aggressive, since forcing your opponent into topdeck mode when you have threats on the table is pretty brutal. For removal, Dismember and and Disfigure are both very reasonable simply because they can only cost 1 mana if you need them to. Peppersmoke sounds nice, but -1/-1 is probably just barely not enough, since it won't hit flipped delvers, Stoneforge, etc. Might be worth playing around with though. Baleful strix is good, but not a faerie and not instant speed. So, trying to stay on theme means you're going to be a little slower and more controlling than most of the other tempo decks in format, but because your threats will ideally have flash, it lets you play draw-go and still advance your board in a way that other decks can't, which should allow you to adapt how your play depending on your opponent more smoothly than other tempo decks. If you want to avoid Bobs, I'd try running something like this: 4 Brainstorm 3 Gitaxian Probe 3 Cabal Therapy 3 Daze 2 Force of Will 4 Stifle 1 or 2 Dismember 1 or 2 Disfigure/Peppersmoke 4 Spellstutter Sprite 2 Vendillion Clique 2 Scion of Oona 3 Bitterblossom 2 Umezawa's Jitte 1 Sword of Fire and Ice 2 Jace, The Mind Sculptor 2 Liliana of the Veil 21 Lands: 4 Wasteland 6-7 Fetches 2 Creeping Tar Pit 4 Underground Sea Basics That leaves you one more card to cut to get to 60, and if you don't want to run FoW/don't have them and don't want to buy them, it gives you another slot (maybe a stifle is the cut?). A lot of your threats double as disruption, and a LOT of your deck is instant speed, so you can constantly play both on your turn and your opponents as you need. Bitterblossom and Creeping Tar Pit give you threats that are slightly harder to deal with, Bitterblossom especially, and I like a third maindeck equipment to help you close a touch faster once you have a creature (any creature) on the board. Batterskull is probably too expensive without stoneforge. SB you can include one or two different swords (Body and Mind isn't out of the question if Bant really gets popular, but Feast and Famine is probably a must). Something like Massacre or Toxic Deluge or Engineered Plague for hitting both tribal decks and TNN, a few more counterspells and/or discard spells for fast combo. It might be worth considering Standstill for the control matchup, but I don't know if it's good enough. With Tar Pit it might be, or if you can get an early board presence before dropping it. Another Liliana would probably be good in that matchup too. Fun things to look at that probably aren't good enough but might be fun testing are Cloud of Faeries and Faerie Squadron, because they let keep playing draw go and give you a one-drop faerie to make spellstutter better without being too dead late, respectively. Oldsrocket_27 fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 20:36
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. Otherwise I could run like Darkslick Shores and Secluded Glen.
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Oldsrocket_27 posted:I'd say first of all that you need more and better cantrips than just 3 Git Pro. Brainstorm (with fetches) and ponder are in most blue decks for a reason: because they give you so much better consistency, of a level that you really can't match with redundancy unless you're so redundant that you're playing burn, and almost every card in your deck does the same thing. Ancestral doesn't quite do it because it's not on demand, and you aren't cascading into it. It's a good card, but having to wait 4 turns every time really hurts it. More options, at least in the SB, for equipment would be good too. Sword of Fire and Ice has gotten much better now that TNN is on the scene because of how much it helped UWR delver, and Feast and Famine is good against Jund and often better than Jitte against combo. I know you said you don't want to pony up for Bob, but he would probably be be good for the deck (though maybe he isn't necessary), and having access to FoW somewhere in the 75 is probably correct. It's expensive, but it's an effect that you cannot replace with any other card. B also gives you access to Liliana of the Veil, who I feel is better when you're being more aggressive, since forcing your opponent into topdeck mode when you have threats on the table is pretty brutal. For removal, Dismember and and Disfigure are both very reasonable simply because they can only cost 1 mana if you need them to. Peppersmoke sounds nice, but -1/-1 is probably just barely not enough, since it won't hit flipped delvers, Stoneforge, etc. Might be worth playing around with though. Baleful strix is good, but not a faerie and not instant speed. This is most definitely not a stifle deck, it should be running something other than that. Maybe the free 1/1 faerie?
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Jan 5, 2014 23:22
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Sampatrick posted:This is most definitely not a stifle deck, it should be running something other than that. Maybe the free 1/1 faerie? If you're a tempo deck, like faeries or Delver, yes, you are a Stifle deck.
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Jan 6, 2014 00:14
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Sampatrick posted:This is most definitely not a stifle deck, it should be running something other than that. Maybe the free 1/1 faerie? Stifle is great for the deck, because you can almost always threaten it early in a way that's very difficult to play around (especially when coupled with wastelands) without the usual cost of slowing your board development. This is definitely a stifle deck, because it costs the deck very little to have it available and it does a great job of forcing your opponent to play at the pace you dictate.
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Jan 6, 2014 00:23
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Oldsrocket_27 posted:Great suggestions Not really sure what else to say because this list seems really solid. Thanks again, now I've just got to get my hands on some of these...
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Jan 6, 2014 09:06
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The problem with running stifle in this deck is that stifle is best in a deck that can land an early threat, but this deck isn't doing that. You have no turn 1 threats, and your best threat turn 2 is bitterblossom. I feel like this deck is better served playing more disruption spells like Hymn/Inquisition than it is playing cards like daze/stifle. You aren't tempoing your opponent out; you don't have any good temp threats and you aren't gonna win of you try to do that. Instead you should be trying to control the board state more. Maybe play 4 BB and 3 LotV. Also play Inquisition instead of therapy and hymn instead of probe. Maybe cut the sword of fire and ice for more hand disruption or another scion? I'd make the deck more of a hand disruption deck than a tempo deck, you just don't have the cards to make an early tempo threat.
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Jan 6, 2014 16:54
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AgentSythe posted:So anyone, building off of that W/R Twin post: is anyone planning on going to GP Richmond? Additionally, does anyone test Modern with any regularity on Cockatrice? I just got it all set up and I can keep track of usernames in this post if we want to get a test group together. I'll start with mine. Derp I just found the Eternal thread! We've already emailed about this, but I'm planning on going to GP Richmond and would love to test on Cockatrice! My handle is IDDQD.
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Jan 7, 2014 05:45
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Any advice/tweaks for this Modern Burn deck I built after finding it on Salvation? My first foray into Modern. 4x Boros Charm 4x Bump in the Night 4x city of brass 4x forbidden orchard 4x gemstone mine 4x Lava Spike 4x Lightning Bolt 4x Lightning Helix 2x Magma Jet 8x Mountain 4x Rift Bolt 4x Searing Blaze 4x Shard Volley 4x Skullcrack 2x Volcanic Fallout SB 4x Keening Apparition 4x Rakdos Charm 2x Shattering Spree 4x Silence 1x Smash to Smithereens
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Jan 7, 2014 16:54
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Going black doesn't seem very profitable. You get Bump in the Night and Rakdos Charm in the board, but there are already plenty of good cards you can run like Vexing Devil and Goblin Guide. If you're looking for a more long-term burn, maybe Grim Lavamancer? Also Silence is not what you want to be doing, if you really want to counter storm just play like Mindbreak Trap I don't know.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:06
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Bump has been a key part of the burn deck since its printing (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/8962). The black splash is pretty important.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:14
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But but six mana I'm not a fan. But then again I've never seen it played at any Modern events near me so it could be amazing and our meta's just bad.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:22
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KasaiAisu posted:But but six mana I'm not a fan. But then again I've never seen it played at any Modern events near me so it could be amazing and our meta's just bad. Six mana? You aren't flashing it back. It's a Lava Spike.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:23
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I suppose. I personally would run Vexing Devil but it seems this is 0creatures.dek so the concern is they just let it hit the table and kill it.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:34
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KasaiAisu posted:I suppose. I personally would run Vexing Devil but it seems this is 0creatures.dek so the concern is they just let it hit the table and kill it. Vexing Devils is not a very good card.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:35
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. 4 damage for 1 mana will always be good.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:38
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They're pretty solid in modern gruul aggro. That isn't a tier 1 deck but it is certainly FNM capable.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:44
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I had really hoped we'd stop seeing people defend VD once it rotated out of Standard.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:46
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KasaiAisu posted:I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. 4 damage for 1 mana will always be good. It's either 4 damage when the damage doesn't matter or 0 damage because it eats a Path or Bolt before it can swing. Giving the choice to your opponent is never good.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:49
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I played a very similar RWB Burn deck for a while. Its fun, but it can get kind of boring to play after a while. I ended up selling my stuff off, along with my Soul Sisters, Martyr Control, and BW Tokens decks. It's definitely solid though. Bump in the Night is good. Vexing Devil is not good. Because we're talking about Genesis Wave in the main thread, has anyone else had any more success in testing with it? I sort of let it sit out for a while after being frustrated with its lack of interactivity, and am curious if I've missed any interesting developments others might have been working on.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:52
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Gravy Train Robber posted:Because we're talking about Genesis Wave in the main thread, has anyone else had any more success in testing with it? I sort of let it sit out for a while after being frustrated with its lack of interactivity, and am curious if I've missed any interesting developments others might have been working on. Moi's deck here (second from the top) appears to be the base for the others.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:58
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tzirean posted:Moi's deck here (second from the top) appears to be the base for the others. I'm definitely digging that list. It still has a lot of weaknesses, but as much as I complain about its combo matchup (combo and control being the decks the people I test with generally play), it has an excellent game against Jund and most aggro decks.
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Jan 7, 2014 18:16
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KasaiAisu posted:But but six mana I'm not a fan. But then again I've never seen it played at any Modern events near me so it could be amazing and our meta's just bad.
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Jan 7, 2014 19:10
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Zoness posted:It's either 4 damage when the damage doesn't matter or 0 damage because it eats a Path or Bolt before it can swing. Dark confidant is not good because it eats a path or bolt before it can swing.
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Jan 7, 2014 19:30
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KasaiAisu posted:Dark confidant is not good because it eats a path or bolt before it can swing. That's....not the same thing.
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Jan 7, 2014 19:32
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KasaiAisu posted:Dark confidant is not good because it eats a path or bolt before it can swing. The comparison isn't remotely close and it's painfully obvious you're missing the point here. Dark Confidant -forces- your opponent to have an answer before it starts drawing extra cards which is its threat in addition to swinging into an open board. Vexing Devil lets your opponent choose how to deal with it and the only thing it threatens to do is attack. If I have a 4/5 Goyf I have no reason to fear Vexing Devil resolving.
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Jan 7, 2014 19:34
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What a Judas posted:That's....not the same thing. The best case scenario is they take 4. If they kill it, that's removal they aren't using on other creatures.
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Jan 7, 2014 19:37
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KasaiAisu posted:The best case scenario is they take 4. If they kill it, that's removal they aren't using on other creatures. What other creatures? See also - Tarmogoyf, Kitchen Finks.
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Jan 7, 2014 19:38
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Hey man. Don't disrespect the Goblin Guide beats. Burn has other creatures. There's a reason his initials spell GG. The only more powerful goblin is Squee, which as Patrick Sullivan correctly pointed out this weekend, is basically the same power level as True-name Nemesis.
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Jan 8, 2014 02:37
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Speaking of aggressive red decks in Modern and Goblin Guide, I've been looking at this and trying to put it together after fellow goon Molybdenum said a guy at his LGS is having some good success with it- Deck: Modern "Goblins"  //Lands 4 Contested War Zone 14 Mountain //Spells 4 Goblin Grenade 4 Kuldotha Rebirth 4 Mox Opal //Creatures 4 Goblin Arsonist 4 Goblin Bushwhacker 2 Goblin Chieftain 4 Goblin Guide 4 Legion Loyalist 4 Memnite 4 Ornithopter 4 Signal Pest //Sideboard 2 Bonfire of the Damned 3 Grafdigger's Cage 2 Pillar of Flame 3 Shattering Spree 2 Goblin Chieftain 3 Reforge the Soul  Display deck statisticsThe SB I guessed off of Molybdenum saying "Side board uses burn, grafdiggers cage, and Reforge the Soul, along with a few chieftains.", I don't know what the good Modern burn is though Bonfire is a good way to get rid of blockers and you probably won't draw into it on accident, so maybe I run more of those? In goofing around with the starting hand generator on Deckbox it is hilariously fast (just now I generated a hand that swings for 10 on turn 2; 2xMemnite + Signal Pest + kicked Goblin Bushwhacker), but your hand empties so quickly I might see if I can't squeeze a couple copies of Reforge the Soul into the main deck, since again you aren't likely to good the Miracle cost by drawing into it at the wrong time. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 03:02
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KasaiAisu posted:The best case scenario is they take 4. If they kill it, that's removal they aren't using on other creatures. That doesn't mean Vexing Devil is good. The possibilities are appealing, but not when your opponent gets to make the choice. You would rather have a 4/3 creature in the first few turns, but they will choose to take four damage once instead of 8-12 damage from one creature. You would rather have Vexing Devil deal four damage when your opponent is under ten life, but your opponent is going to choose for it to be a creature that can't do anything for a turn and can probably answer it before it can attack. Look at what the creatures in a burn deck do. If they can't attack with haste (Goblin Guide, Ball Lightning, Hellspark Elemental), then they are creatures that have abilities that deal damage without attacking. The only reason anyone would put Dark Confidant in a burn deck that has added black mana for Bump in the Night is because Dark Confidant draws card. Drawing cards in a deck that usually peters out by turn five or six is HUGE.
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Jan 8, 2014 03:15
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I keep trying to type something out by my browser is crashing, so lets just summarize. KaisaiAisu is either trolling or bad at burn. Bump in the night is the 3rd best burn spell in modern, 7+3=21. Goblin guide is mandatory. Use fetches unless budget. Searing blaze is terrible without fetches. Deathrite is awesome. Consider more creatures, Kheldon Mauraders, Hellspark Elemental, stuff that dodges removal. Vexing devil is a not bad card, but its not a good one either. Its best on turn one, a horrible topdeck, and also slightly better in a deck with more creatures. It is almost always the first card to cut when sideboarding though.
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Jan 8, 2014 03:33
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All these price spikes for Genesis Wave finally got me to finish out my deck in paper. Thankfully managed to snag a bunch of stuff that hadn't had the price jacked up yet. Now that I've sold all my other Modern decks, it just leaves me with BUG Infect and Genesis Wave. Probably I'll work on Merfolk next. Looking at the Genesis list posted earlier, how do we feel about the Craterhoof win con compared to the Banefire/Wolf-Run ideas discussed a few months back? In testing, I think I got a lot of mileage out of Banefire because it gives the deck some main deck interaction if it absolutely needs it. But I do like that theres more slots for creatures with card draw and resiliency than the earlier builds- and there might not be room to cram in some Banefires and Wolf-Runs.
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Jan 8, 2014 03:53
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I saw some other lists that ditched the ramp plan and were more or less just running nykthos for value. They usually had 4x Harmonize and 2-3 Genesis Wave, then packed full of efficient green beaters like Leatherback Baloth. I am not sure how good they are in practice, they certainly aren't better against the combo matchup, probably the same or worse against Jund. Might be a bit better against aggro and control, but I don't really know.
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Jan 8, 2014 04:00
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Wadjamaloo posted:I saw some other lists that ditched the ramp plan and were more or less just running nykthos for value. They usually had 4x Harmonize and 2-3 Genesis Wave, then packed full of efficient green beaters like Leatherback Baloth. I was looking through other high devotion beaters, and was enamoured by Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers, but I'm pretty sure its too cute to earn a place. I don't think Beatdown+Harmonise is as strong- if you can start combo-ing off with Nykthos/Garruk/Genesis Wave/Eternal Witness into a Craterhoof, Wolf Run, or Banefire, you've got a straight kill, pretty much. I'm thinking the Banefire plan might be fine in the sideboard? Possibly replacing the Vexing Shusher/Boseiju counter protection package? Or maybe alongside it to shut down control's usual tricks?
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Jan 8, 2014 04:12
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Goblin Guide is the best Burn deck burn spell ever printed. There are decks and tournaments and computer simulations to prove it. If you are making a burn deck and don't snap include 4x Goblin Guide you need to re-evaluate your... evaluation skills.
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Jan 8, 2014 18:20
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