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Mister Bates
Aug 4, 2010

Zerilan posted:

The language in the video is no worse than what I've heard said around kids or by kids in countless rural Appalachian households.

It's totally different when white people do it because

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duz
Jul 11, 2005

Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost


Mister Bates posted:

It's totally different when white people do it because

Because then it's not continuing the cycle of thuggery.
Which is buggery but with a lisp, and totally not a dog whistle.

Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
I guess those Funny or Die videos with Will Ferrell and that two year old girl as a ball-busting hardass were actually SUPER CHILLING.

seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

FLAWED
INTUITION



Toilet Rascal
Is anyone else getting a lot of Fukushima stuff lately? The ocean is poisoned, we'll never eat seafood from the Pacific Ocean agaiiiiin :supaburn:

This one just came out: http://themindunleashed.org/2013/08/at-very-least-your-days-of-eating.html

Half of the links in the article just link to the website that produced it, or the facts listed have no sources at all. Credible!

Hilariously enough, after someone posted that article, Facebook suggested two articles to me, which debunk the Fukushima scare:

http://deepseanews.com/2013/11/true-facts-about-ocean-radiation-and-the-fukushima-disaster/

http://www.snopes.com/photos/technology/fukushima.asp

Thanks, Facebook :thumbsup:

Taaaaaaarb!
Nov 17, 2008

Electric Space Famicon

seiferguy posted:

Is anyone else getting a lot of Fukushima stuff lately? The ocean is poisoned, we'll never eat seafood from the Pacific Ocean agaiiiiin :supaburn:

This one just came out: http://themindunleashed.org/2013/08/at-very-least-your-days-of-eating.html

Half of the links in the article just link to the website that produced it, or the facts listed have no sources at all. Credible!

Hilariously enough, after someone posted that article, Facebook suggested two articles to me, which debunk the Fukushima scare:

http://deepseanews.com/2013/11/true-facts-about-ocean-radiation-and-the-fukushima-disaster/

http://www.snopes.com/photos/technology/fukushima.asp

Thanks, Facebook :thumbsup:

One of my fiance's friends was over at our place for dinner a week ago and asking about this. She said her crazy hippie cousin was really worried about the :supaburn::siren:TOXINS:siren::supaburn: in the water that she was leaving the West coast. I explained to her that the radioactive exposure we will get on this side of the world is negligible compared to background radiation; any toxic material leaking from the reactor in Japan would be incredibly diluted once it reached Vancouver Island. I don't think that explanation would work on her considering she seems like the type to believe in homeopathy.

gariig
Dec 31, 2004
Beaten into submission by my fiance
Pillbug

Taaaaaaarb! posted:

One of my fiance's friends was over at our place for dinner a week ago and asking about this. She said her crazy hippie cousin was really worried about the :supaburn::siren:TOXINS:siren::supaburn: in the water that she was leaving the West coast. I explained to her that the radioactive exposure we will get on this side of the world is negligible compared to background radiation; any toxic material leaking from the reactor in Japan would be incredibly diluted once it reached Vancouver Island. I don't think that explanation would work on her considering she seems like the type to believe in homeopathy.

I'd be more worried about the radioactive waste in your own backyard before I'd worry about Fukushima.

EightBit
Jan 7, 2006
I spent money on this line of text just to make the "Stupid Newbie" go away.

Taaaaaaarb! posted:

One of my fiance's friends was over at our place for dinner a week ago and asking about this. She said her crazy hippie cousin was really worried about the :supaburn::siren:TOXINS:siren::supaburn: in the water that she was leaving the West coast. I explained to her that the radioactive exposure we will get on this side of the world is negligible compared to background radiation; any toxic material leaking from the reactor in Japan would be incredibly diluted once it reached Vancouver Island. I don't think that explanation would work on her considering she seems like the type to believe in homeopathy.

Don't ever explain the concept of background radiation to her, she might just implode. There's no way to escape RADIATION, NEUTRINOS and COSMIC RAYS. Tell her it's a government conspiracy to force mankind to evolve :getin:

JohnClark
Mar 24, 2005

Well that's less than ideal

Not as bad as the usual stuff, but the jingoism is painful. The reporter is clearly trying to articulate his reaction to the film, and for some reason Lutrell takes offense, which means we all should take offense! How dare that loving civilian speak to one of our heroic warriors in such a disrespectful manner?!

Taaaaaaarb!
Nov 17, 2008

Electric Space Famicon

EightBit posted:

Don't ever explain the concept of background radiation to her, she might just implode. There's no way to escape RADIATION, NEUTRINOS and COSMIC RAYS. Tell her it's a government conspiracy to force mankind to evolve :getin:

I should tell her that they're the active ingredient CHEMTRAILS giving people cancer.

TerminalSaint
Apr 21, 2007


Where must we go...

we who wander this Wasteland in search of our better selves?

Taaaaaaarb! posted:

One of my fiance's friends was over at our place for dinner a week ago and asking about this. She said her crazy hippie cousin was really worried about the :supaburn::siren:TOXINS:siren::supaburn: in the water that she was leaving the West coast. I explained to her that the radioactive exposure we will get on this side of the world is negligible compared to background radiation; any toxic material leaking from the reactor in Japan would be incredibly diluted once it reached Vancouver Island. I don't think that explanation would work on her considering she seems like the type to believe in homeopathy.

People have trouble understanding just how mind-bogglingly huge the Pacific Ocean is.

Duncan Doenitz
Nov 17, 2010

There are four lights.

Flaggy posted:

Got a good one today:


Because communism is socialism I guess.

A few pages back (and much older than that), but someone posted this little gem relating to it just now: http://www.ijreview.com/2014/01/107990-story-prof-fails-entire-class-illustrate-obamas-socialism-left-furious/

Apparently lefties are mad about a right-wing e-mail forward that has been around since Obama took office, as proven by this "article" that is totally not just said e-mail forward dressed up as an article. :shepicide:

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
Forgive the formatting, I'm on a phone:

It was Martin's first day at Free Republic University as an exchange student and he was already feeling nervous.
Looking around the classroom he noticed that most of the other students had pens and notebooks. Martin was concerned because when he attended classes back in his home country, they'd always provided those basic materials.
He did notice that two students had laptops and one even had a video camera to record the lecture, "Wow, those two students have really high quality study materials," he thought.

The professor walked in and without introducing himself he began the lecture. "I'm sure many of you idealistic young students are excited about this new 'Obamacare,' We will have to do an exiperiment in this class on Obama's great plan."

"The math is indisputable, in this classroom, the average student has better study materials than anywhere else in the world. Just look at those expensive laptops. On average, each student has over $200 in study materials ranging from paper and pencils to video recording equipment."

Martin began to do some mental math, "50 students times $200 = $6,000... but subtract $4000 for two laptops, another $1000 for the camera..."

The professor interrupted Martin's thought process "Before we begin, I'd like to know a little bit about how some of my students got their study materials. Janet! I noticed you've got a notebook and some paper, how did you pay for that?"

Janet answered "I work in an office and my employer has a deal with a supplier, part of the cost comes out of my paycheck and my employer pays the rest."

The professor commented, "See, that's the great part, the employer can get a group rate instead of each person having to negotiate on their own." The professor hastily added, "a tactic that is only admirable when it comes to insurance, never when used unethically by workers to extort higher wages."

The professor pointed to another student, "Steve, I noticed that you have an index card and a crayon. How'd you get that?"

Steve blushed and said "Well, my employer doesn't offer insurance so I had to buy it on my own. I paid a few hundred dollars for this crayon, my plan doesn't cover pencils."

The professor beamed "See! The system works! It's the envy of every other nation on earth"

Martin couldn't help but frown, this system seemed VERY weird.

The professor's mood darkened as he said, "Now, we'll do an experiment where we'll see how it works under OBAMACARE." "Everyone who gets office supplies through their employer, people in Janet's situation? NOTHING CHANGES!"
The class gasped in horror.

"It gets worse!" The professor continued, "Obamacare will create an office supplies marketplace, and every office supplier will be allowed to sell office supplies through it..."
The professor was interrupted by hisses and jeers, "Let me finish, this marketplace will have minimum standards. They'll be required to sell pencils and paper, not just crayons. They'll have to have clearly labeled prices and once those prices are set, they aren't allowed to change them until the end of the day!"

A student yelled out "THAT'S COMMUNISM!"
The professor went on, "I haven't even gotten to the individual mandate. Every student will be required to buy a minimum of one sheet of paper and a pencil. EVEN IF THEY DON'T WANT TO!"

"FASCISM! HITLER! STALIN!"

The professor looked around the class, "But I don't think anyone here wants that, I think we'll just keep things the way they are. Does anyone object?"

Martin raised his hand, the professor scowled, "What? Do you really think there's a better way?"
Martin said "Back in my country, the government buys a bunch of school materials, this gives them a good position to negotiate from so they get a good price, then they divide up the materials to everyone. They even provide special equipment to blind or deaf students. Why don't we do it that way?"

The professor stared, "What's your name, boy?"
Martin replied, "Martin, sir. Martin Luther King Jr."

The professor turned red and screamed,"Get out of my class, monkey! "

Dr. Arbitrary fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Jan 13, 2014

Time to read Zinn
Sep 11, 2013
the humidity + the viscosity

Duncan Doenitz posted:

A few pages back (and much older than that), but someone posted this little gem relating to it just now:

"What I am reading now is liberals, progressives or those that dismiss the STORY because it’s a scenario and not real. They can’t cope with the real truth that you can’t move poor people into prosperity by legislation from Washington, DC. Government doesn’t have the authority to take from Citizen A and give to Citizen B to make things even."

From thought to page, this never disturbed him. An editor approved it. Readers didn't demand his resignation for it.

Jimbozig
Sep 30, 2003

I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

Taaaaaaarb! posted:

One of my fiance's friends was over at our place for dinner a week ago and asking about this. She said her crazy hippie cousin was really worried about the :supaburn::siren:TOXINS:siren::supaburn: in the water that she was leaving the West coast. I explained to her that the radioactive exposure we will get on this side of the world is negligible compared to background radiation; any toxic material leaking from the reactor in Japan would be incredibly diluted once it reached Vancouver Island. I don't think that explanation would work on her considering she seems like the type to believe in homeopathy.

Well homeopathy is just the idea that if you take something harmful and dilute it a crazy amount it becomes health-giving. So then by that reasoning the contamination in the Pacific ocean should be making people healthier. QED.

Mister Bates
Aug 4, 2010

Time to read Zinn posted:

"What I am reading now is liberals, progressives or those that dismiss the STORY because it’s a scenario and not real. They can’t cope with the real truth that you can’t move poor people into prosperity by legislation from Washington, DC. Government doesn’t have the authority to take from Citizen A and give to Citizen B to make things even."

From thought to page, this never disturbed him. An editor approved it. Readers didn't demand his resignation for it.

I really wish someone would respond to him by saying, 'Yes, comrade, I too agree that true equality can only be achieved through a workers' revolution to abolish the corrupt capitalist system. True reform will not come from above!' and follow it by linking to a Youtube video of L'Internationale.

Mc Do Well
Aug 2, 2008

by FactsAreUseless
I never knew points on a test were a finite resource.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

McDowell posted:

I never knew points on a test were a finite resource.

They are - there's a perfect score you can attain, and you can't go above it.

SALARY CAPS! :supaburn:

Sir Rolo
Oct 16, 2012

quote:

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing
The fifth would pay $1
The sixth would pay $3
The seventh would pay $7
The eighth would pay $12
The ninth would pay $18
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59
So, that’s what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.

“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20″. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men ? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

The bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

“I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got $10!”

“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!” “That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”

“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

Amused to Death
Aug 10, 2009

google "The Night Witches", and prepare for :stare:
I want to know why all these rich people who supposedly hate taxes willingly congregate in the highest tax states in the highest taxed cities in said states instead of buying homes in bumfuck Mississippi instead.

Dr. VonHugenstein
Feb 16, 2004
They Call Him Monsterrod

The untold part of this allegory is that the beers cost the bar $90. After a few months the dumb bartender selling the beers for $80 had run the bar into bankruptcy.

Rosalind
Apr 30, 2013

When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change.

Rewrite so that the tenth man flaunted his wealth all the time at the bar, but when it came time to pay he would constantly claim that he had left his wallet at home and that he paid them all back by giving them sips of his beer sometimes.

Evrart Claire
Jan 11, 2008

Dr. VonHugenstein posted:

The untold part of this allegory is that the beers cost the bar $90. After a few months the dumb bartender selling the beers for $80 had run the bar into bankruptcy.

Also instead of the 9 men beating the richest man up, the rich man hires some thugs to beat up the four poorest while convincing the other 5 that the poor ones deserve it.

Eggplant Squire
Aug 14, 2003


Amused to Death posted:

I want to know why all these rich people who supposedly hate taxes willingly congregate in the highest tax states in the highest taxed cities in said states instead of buying homes in bumfuck Mississippi instead.

Seriously they could be getting paid to go live in Alaska right now.

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

JohnClark posted:


Not as bad as the usual stuff, but the jingoism is painful. The reporter is clearly trying to articulate his reaction to the film, and for some reason Lutrell takes offense, which means we all should take offense! How dare that loving civilian speak to one of our heroic warriors in such a disrespectful manner?!

So what wad said that offended our precious Hero Solider?

Proust Malone
Apr 4, 2008

KomradeX posted:

So what wad said that offended our precious Hero Solider?

“One of the emotions I felt while watching the film is, first of all, just the hopelessness of the situation. How horrific it was. And also, all that loss of life of these brave American men. And I was torn about the message of the film,” Tapper commented, “in the same way that I think I am about the war in Afghanistan itself. I don’t want any more senseless American death and at the same time, I know that there are bad people there, and good people who need help. Was that intentional?”

“Well, I don’t know what part of the film you were watching, but hopelessness really came into it,” the Navy SEAL Luttrell retorted. “Where did you see that? Because there was never any point where we just felt like we were just hopelessly lost or anything like that. We never gave up, we never felt like we were losing, until we were actually dead. That never came across in the battle and while we were fighting on the mountain and it was just us against them.”

“Just the sense of all these wonderful people who died,” Tapper tried to clarify. “It seemed senseless. I don’t mean to disrespect in any way, but it seemed senseless — all of these wonderful people who were killed for an op that went wrong.”

“We spend our whole lives training to defending this country and then we were sent over there by this country, so you’re telling me because we were over there doing what we were told by our country that it was senseless?” Luttrell asked. “And my guys, what? They died for nothing?”

“No,” Tapper replied.

“That’s what you said,” Luttrell shot back.

Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004
"War is bad"
"HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT OUR TROOPS"

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

Ron Jeremy posted:

“And my guys, what? They died for nothing?”

“No,” Tapper replied.

He should have said "Yes."

The idea that the military is over in Afghanistan "defending our country" in an active sense is loving laughable.

Armyman25
Sep 6, 2005

Ron Jeremy posted:

“One of the emotions I felt while watching the film is, first of all, just the hopelessness of the situation. How horrific it was. And also, all that loss of life of these brave American men. And I was torn about the message of the film,” Tapper commented, “in the same way that I think I am about the war in Afghanistan itself. I don’t want any more senseless American death and at the same time, I know that there are bad people there, and good people who need help. Was that intentional?”

“Well, I don’t know what part of the film you were watching, but hopelessness really came into it,” the Navy SEAL Luttrell retorted. “Where did you see that? Because there was never any point where we just felt like we were just hopelessly lost or anything like that. We never gave up, we never felt like we were losing, until we were actually dead. That never came across in the battle and while we were fighting on the mountain and it was just us against them.”

“Just the sense of all these wonderful people who died,” Tapper tried to clarify. “It seemed senseless. I don’t mean to disrespect in any way, but it seemed senseless — all of these wonderful people who were killed for an op that went wrong.”

“We spend our whole lives training to defending this country and then we were sent over there by this country, so you’re telling me because we were over there doing what we were told by our country that it was senseless?” Luttrell asked. “And my guys, what? They died for nothing?”

“No,” Tapper replied.

“That’s what you said,” Luttrell shot back.

Actually, yeah, that's one of the biggest tragedies of war. Men and women wasting their bravery, training, and lives in a cause that isn't worth it.

E-Tank
Aug 4, 2011

Ron Jeremy posted:

“We spend our whole lives training to defending this country and then we were sent over there by this country, so you’re telling me because we were over there doing what we were told by our country that it was senseless?” Luttrell asked. “And my guys, what? They died for nothing?”

“No,” Tapper replied.

“That’s what you said,” Luttrell shot back.

Isn't that one of the continuing arguments for the war? "We can't stop the war now, it'd make all the deaths of the soldiers whom have died already meaningless!"

Proust Malone
Apr 4, 2008

E-Tank posted:

Isn't that one of the continuing arguments for the war? "We can't stop the war now, it'd make all the deaths of the soldiers whom have died already meaningless!"

Works the other way too.



"How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

KillerJunglist
May 22, 2007

Lion of Judah protect you, Jah be praised.

Ron Jeremy posted:

“One of the emotions I felt while watching the film is, first of all, just the hopelessness of the situation. How horrific it was. And also, all that loss of life of these brave American men. And I was torn about the message of the film,” Tapper commented, “in the same way that I think I am about the war in Afghanistan itself. I don’t want any more senseless American death and at the same time, I know that there are bad people there, and good people who need help. Was that intentional?”

“Well, I don’t know what part of the film you were watching, but hopelessness really came into it,” the Navy SEAL Luttrell retorted. “Where did you see that? Because there was never any point where we just felt like we were just hopelessly lost or anything like that. We never gave up, we never felt like we were losing, until we were actually dead. That never came across in the battle and while we were fighting on the mountain and it was just us against them.”

“Just the sense of all these wonderful people who died,” Tapper tried to clarify. “It seemed senseless. I don’t mean to disrespect in any way, but it seemed senseless — all of these wonderful people who were killed for an op that went wrong.”

“We spend our whole lives training to defending this country and then we were sent over there by this country, so you’re telling me because we were over there doing what we were told by our country that it was senseless?” Luttrell asked. “And my guys, what? They died for nothing?”

“No,” Tapper replied.

“That’s what you said,” Luttrell shot back.

Sounds like Luttrell wants to be offended by a comment like that because the alternative would be admitting that his men did indeed die for no reason.

Or rather, that they didn't need to die at all.

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe

Amused to Death posted:

I want to know why all these rich people who supposedly hate taxes willingly congregate in the highest tax states in the highest taxed cities in said states instead of buying homes in bumfuck Mississippi instead.

Status. The same reason they need as much money as possible.

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

Here's to the new us.

KillerJunglist posted:

Sounds like Luttrell wants to be offended by a comment like that because the alternative would be admitting that his men did indeed die for no reason.

Or rather, that they didn't need to die at all.

This seems like the sort of thing that would mentally gently caress you up in a massive way so I can understand him being pretty aggressive about it.

E-Tank
Aug 4, 2011

1stGear posted:

This seems like the sort of thing that would mentally gently caress you up in a massive way so I can understand him being pretty aggressive about it.

Yeah...Kind of makes you wonder how much war rhetoric from veterans are because if they stopped supporting the war, they'd have to admit their friends died for nothing. :smith:

Ashcans
Jan 2, 2006

Let's do the space-time warp again!

That's pretty much the reason I don't hold too much against Luttrell in that exchange; it sounds like he was in a completely horrible situation. I haven't paid much attention to the flim, but a quick look shows that it was a crippling experience for him and it (self-admittedly) messed him up:

quote:

Luttrell may have been the firefight’s lone survivor, but he hardly emerged unscathed. He struggled with survivor’s guilt, post-traumatic stress disorder and physical after-effects in the ensuing years. “I died on that mountain, too,” he said of his torment in a 2007 interview with NBC. “I left a part of myself up there.”

I can't really blame him for feeling like it must have all had some sort of point, that holding his dying friend and then dragging himself around with a broken back meant something, because you probably need that to keep it together every day.

It's the people who are jerking off over the story and crowing about it that are the real fuckheads.

Thompsons
Aug 28, 2008

Ask me about onklunk extraction.
I wonder what they're going to tell themselves like a year and a half after we pull out and the place just goes back to exactly the way it was before.

Proust Malone
Apr 4, 2008

Thompsons posted:

I wonder what they're going to tell themselves like a year and a half after we pull out and the place just goes back to exactly the way it was before.

Well we could ask Newsmax what they think of that sort of thing:

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/marines-angry-fall-fallujah/2014/01/10/id/546384

quote:

"I don't think anyone had the grand illusion that Fallujah or Ramadi was going to turn into Disneyland, but none of us thought it was going to fall back to a jihadist insurgency. It made me sick to my stomach to have that thrown in our face, everything we fought for so blatantly taken away," he said.

Fallujah was host to one of the deadliest battles in the Iraq war after nearly 100 Marines were killed and hundreds were wounded. To many, the battle was a defining episode of the 12 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Veterans of that battle are also questioning whether the mission was all for naught, according to the Times.

...

Some are blaming Obama for not making more of an effort to keep some troops in Iraq to maintain security, while others say troops were pulled out at the wrong time and for political reasons.

"Lives were wasted, and now everyone back home sees that," Pfc. James Cathcart, a veteran of the Fallujah battle, told the Times. "It was irresponsible to send us over there with no plan, and now to just give it all away."

Proust Malone fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jan 13, 2014

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002

Thompsons posted:

I wonder what they're going to tell themselves like a year and a half after we pull out and the place just goes back to exactly the way it was before.

"Thanks Obama :rolleyes:"

AdjectiveNoun
Oct 11, 2012

Everything. Is. Fine.

Thompsons posted:

I wonder what they're going to tell themselves like a year and a half after we pull out and the place just goes back to exactly the way it was before.

The same thing conservatives tell themselves about Vietnam - 'We'd have won if it wasn't for those cowards back in Washington!'

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FowlTheOwl
Nov 5, 2008

O thou precious owl,
The wise Minervas only fowl

AdjectiveNoun posted:

The same thing conservatives tell themselves about Vietnam - 'We'd have won if it wasn't for those cowards back in Washington!'

Yeah the real question is, has a war ever been "won" and what does winning mean? How long does it have to last to be considered complete?

It reminds me of World War 1 veterans probably being very upset the moment Hitler crossed into France/Russia.

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