|
As a girl who likes to play female characters, I always find it a bit off-putting when modern games don't have that option, unless the game is particularly character-based with a good story. If they had straight out said, "this game follows such-and-such male character on his journey to..." or whatever, then fine. Or if they just flat out said it was due to budgetary constraints or something. But going on about political correctness or historical accuracy (which doesn't really hold water)? Sorry, but that kind of attitude doesn't cut it for me.
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 22:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 15:50 |
|
|
Clocks posted:As a girl who likes to play female characters, I always find it a bit off-putting when modern games don't have that option, unless the game is particularly character-based with a good story. Yeah, that's what got it for me. No one said anything about a lack of female character choices in, for example, The Witcher because the developers were clear that you were playing a particular male character (though I guess it helps that The Witcher was an established property and Geralt was an established main character.) They could have just said "oh, we're telling a story and the main character is a man." But nope, they just had to go on about "realism" and "political correctness."
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 22:53
|
|
|
Did the developers actually mention "realism" as one of the reasons they don't want to implement a female character? They did mention how much they hate political correctness, but I don't recall them saying anything about playing as a girl character being "unrealistic". Also, as an, ahem, girl gamer who prefers to play a female character if there's an option to do so, I get the impression - the unfortunate remark about political correctness aside - that they just have a very particular character and a very particular story in mind, which they've already spent quite some time fleshing out. If they were to include a female character, I'd like them to do it properly, with people reacting to it etc., so that I could feel that my choice of gender matters. However, if they can't do it properly for reasons of scope, story, cost, or whatever, I'd rather they didn't do it at all - I'd hate playing a half-assed girl character more than anything.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:05
|
|
|
It would be understandable if that was the case, yes. I hope it is so. And I'd prefer it this way anyways, since I hate, hate, hate the dumb clean slate approach so many RPGs take. I actually have an easier time to identify with a character with a set and well written personality than the bland poo poo clean slate characters seem to cause. And I don't care if that character is male or female.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:10
|
|
|
The thing is, every protagonist in this medium in invariably a dude, it's not something you can hold against one title specifically but it is a mighty strange pattern that any time they want to tell a strong, character driven story it's always the story of a man, women aren't capable of driving stories, seemingly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:14
|
|
|
I rather have a clean slate in open world games where you create your own stories rather than some generic revenge tale. The whole loving pitch is it's a low fantasy game set during medieval times with some pretty innovative combat mechanics and the ability to do things however you want to. The last thing I give a poo poo about is some blacksmith seeking revenge because his family was murdered.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:16
|
|
|
Lucy Heartfilia posted:It would be understandable if that was the case, yes. I hope it is so. I like both. Sometimes you want to carve your own tale, sometimes you want to follow a well written narrative.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:17
|
|
|
A Steampunk Gent posted:The thing is, every protagonist in this medium in invariably a dude, it's not something you can hold against one title specifically but it is a mighty strange pattern that any time they want to tell a strong, character driven story it's always the story of a man, women aren't capable of driving stories, seemingly. Yeah, that's pretty telling indeed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:19
|
|
|
In the spirit of trying to look on the bright side and hope for the best: I think if they really take the time to develop the female quest line, they could make this a significantly more interesting game. Rather than tacking on some "female content", they should make the female protagonist's story as rich as the male's. With some careful plotting they could ensure that the two stories occasionally intersect and interact, making a person's second play-through much more interesting. You'd get to see all the stuff that was happening during your first time through the game, including things the other protagonist did that helped or hindered your first protagonist. Over the course of three games, having two equally fleshed-out protagonists could really make for an engrossing story. Admittedly, it's more likely they'll just add a half-dozen missions featuring a girl in tight leather pants and a halter top, but we can hope for something better... On a completely separate Kickstarter/topic: The Repopulation is in its final 48 hours, and I'm still debating whether to drop $10-$25 on it. It sounds amazing, but I've already invested in one pie-in-the-sky, "you can do everything/anything you want in the game" project, and I'm not sure if backing another such idea is just throwing good money after bad. Any thoughts on whether this has a chance in hell of living up to its promises? Goredema fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Jan 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:20
|
|
|
Goredema posted:In the spirit trying to look on the bright side and hope for the best: That's pretty much what they're doing. Seems like you play as a woman for tutorial stuff then that's it, so the stretch goal seems like a half-assed attempt to shut people up about the subject. Aside from that, all that you typed seems really unlikely for a Kickstarter game. I don't think this developer is that talented to do so. Their pitch seems like they're more focused on world building than story stuff, so it's confusing why they're so stalwart to defend this stupid blacksmith revenge crap. Sounds like they're really in love with their own, perfect writing. CrookedB posted:I just hope Beyond Good and Evil 2 is still a thing. Jimbot fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Jan 25, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:25
|
|
|
A Steampunk Gent posted:The thing is, every protagonist in this medium in invariably a dude, it's not something you can hold against one title specifically but it is a mighty strange pattern that any time they want to tell a strong, character driven story it's always the story of a man, women aren't capable of driving stories, seemingly. I just hope Beyond Good and Evil 2 is still a thing. vvv Oh my god, has it been canceled or what? I have hope.  CrookedB fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Jan 25, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:27
|
|
|
CrookedB posted:I just hope Beyond Good and Evil 2 is still a thing. You poor, silly bastard.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:27
|
|
|
Drifter posted:bastard A surprisingly gender neutral label.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:31
|
|
|
Rinkles posted:A surprisingly gender neutral label. I try really hard not to be a hypocrite, you know.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:32
|
|
|
CrookedB posted:I just hope Beyond Good and Evil 2 is still a thing. Ubisoft haven't come out and said its cancelled no, the last solid piece of information anybody got out of them was that if it was going to come out, it wouldn't be on the PS3 or 360 but the "next-gen."
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:34
|
|
|
Goredema posted:In the spirit trying to look on the bright side and hope for the best: I get this feeling that the head writer wants to re-thread Mafia I/II with a personal, character driven story with a character arc in a semi-open world. However, the pitch for the game is invoking a Skyrim style of game where you can heavily customize your character and do practically anything in a huge world. This makes for a more effective pitch since it's attractive to the huge Skyrim fanbase. Watching their video again, they haven't been exactly clear if the character is a GTA/Mafia style protagonist, a pre-made but malleable hero like the Nameless Hero from the Gothic series, or more like a Michael Thornton semi-blank slate from Alpha Protocol. CrookedB posted:I just hope Beyond Good and Evil 2 is still a thing. It's been radio silence for about two years. The last game by the team was Rayman Legends. If there is belt-tightening at Ubisoft after the delays and poor sales of this fiscal year, then BGaE2 could end up on the chopping block.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:48
|
|
|
Kibayasu posted:Ubisoft haven't come out and said its cancelled no, the last solid piece of information anybody got out of them was that if it was going to come out, it wouldn't be on the PS3 or 360 but the "next-gen." So, just like The Last Guardian, then. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:50
|
|
|
Goredema posted:The Repopulation is in its final 48 hours, and I'm still debating whether to drop $10-$25 on it. It sounds amazing, but I've already invested in one pie-in-the-sky, "you can do everything/anything you want in the game" project, and I'm not sure if backing another such idea is just throwing good money after bad. Any thoughts on whether this has a chance in hell of living up to its promises? DON'T BACK MMO PROJECTS. NEVER DO IT! They are always too good to be true, and will inevitably die. MMOs with hundreds of millions of dollars behind them fail, why should a kickstarted one be any different?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 00:01
|
|
|
Oh my god, they're still accepting money after reaching $37 million [thirty seven million dollars]?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 00:05
|
|
|
fez_machine posted:DON'T BACK MMO PROJECTS. NEVER DO IT! They are always too good to be true, and will inevitably die. MMOs with hundreds of millions of dollars behind them fail, why should a kickstarted one be any different?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 00:06
|
|
|
Rinkles posted:Oh my god, they're still accepting money after reaching $37 million [thirty seven million dollars]? The funding only ends when the universe is fully simulated to the quantum level.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 00:08
|
|
|
Accordion Man posted:This, MMOs are a dying genre and WoW is barely even profitable now. It's only going to end in tears and .jpgs of spaceships. You all make some very good points. Plus with money already spent on Garage Simulator 2013, The Man Date, RimWorld and others, I think I'm pretty much set for space games. Thanks for being the voices of sanity!
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 00:16
|
|
|
fez_machine posted:DON'T BACK MMO PROJECTS. NEVER DO IT! They are always too good to be true, and will inevitably die. MMOs with hundreds of millions of dollars behind them fail, why should a kickstarted one be any different? I feel that kickstarted MMOG's will, at best, produce a prototype to show to actual investors with the actual money required to build an actual MMOG. And that's being wildly optimistic.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 00:41
|
|
|
fez_machine posted:DON'T BACK MMO PROJECTS. NEVER DO IT! They are always too good to be true, and will inevitably die. MMOs with hundreds of millions of dollars behind them fail, why should a kickstarted one be any different? MMOs with hundreds of millions of dollars behind them ship and have servers full of happy players. It's just less servers and players than they need to keep the team at regular size, so they lay everyone off. SWTOR, Age of Conan, these are games with small but happy playerbases. Even Vanguard, dog of dogs, is just now being sunset after seven disgraceful years. If I see a Kickstarter MMO that asks for a realistic budget and is backed by industry vets with their reputations on the line, that game shipping is almost certain. The choice you have to make is, do you think you're gonna be one of those happy players in a merged server six months after ship?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 00:56
|
|
|
epitasis posted:Glad I saw that "gently caress political correctness" MySpace poo poo before I pledged any money. Goddamn it, I knew this poo poo as going to be problematic once I saw the female character was "good at stealth". 1000 bucks on her wearing tight leather pants and a corset.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:03
|
|
|
A Steampunk Gent posted:The thing is, every protagonist in this medium in invariably a dude, it's not something you can hold against one title specifically but it is a mighty strange pattern that any time they want to tell a strong, character driven story it's always the story of a man, women aren't capable of driving stories, seemingly. http://store.steampowered.com/app/228300/ eh?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:07
|
|
|
Thank you, pedantry. Let them hyperbolize, because the point is the same. You could've just linked Tomb Raider and gotten all of the female driven games out of the way from this year. Although I will say that if the quality of the story ends up being like Remember Me, it'll be kinda drawn out, unnatural soliloquy and poorly written voice overs. The plot's interesting in the game, but as far as writing and characters go it's pretty one-dimensionally done. It's a game that's pretty fun, nonetheless. Drifter fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jan 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:09
|
|
|
Did people forget about Joan of Arc? Not that everything said about her is entirely true (being a national folk legend will make people tell a lot of stories more or less true about you) but still, isn't she proof a woman could become important in the time period? To be clear I'm fine with them not having a woman character in their game if it rock their boat or their fans' boat, but I think their "realism" excuse is kind of bullshit as is the "gently caress political correctness man" one. Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jan 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:12
|
|
|
I don't really care about the game or who the protagonist is, it's just someone saying a thing that is literally not true with bold text caught my eye. I'll probably not play the thing for like five years when I can get it on the Humble Bundle for like a dollar. Doesn't Transistor come out soon as well?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:13
|
|
|
fez_machine posted:DON'T BACK MMO PROJECTS. NEVER DO IT! They are always too good to be true, and will inevitably die. MMOs with hundreds of millions of dollars behind them fail, why should a kickstarted one be any different? Not that you're wrong about the first part, but which MMOs exactly have cost hundreds of millions of dollars and failed?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:13
|
|
|
YOURFRIEND posted:I don't really care about the game or who the protagonist is, it's just someone saying a thing that is literally not true with bold text caught my eye. I'll probably not play the thing for like five years when I can get it on the Humble Bundle for like a dollar. Doesn't Transistor come out soon as well? Drifter summed up what I meant pretty well, a handful of exceptions don't break an overwhelming trend in the industry, sorry my bold text annoyed you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:15
|
|
|
Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Not that you're wrong about the first part, but which MMOs exactly have cost hundreds of millions of dollars and failed? Just off the top of my head, anything with Star Wars on the name, Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, there are literally dozens of examples
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:21
|
|
|
Kurtofan posted:Did people forget about Joan of Arc? Not that everything said about her is entirely true (being a national folk legend will make people tell a lot of stories more or less true about you) but still, isn't she proof a woman could become important in the time period? Yes ONE example out of 400+ year period. The argument is not that it couldn't happen, it's that it was near impossible for it to happen. And it may have only been done once or twice in that whole time period. A man rising to power? Millions of examples in that time period, much more likely for a historical based setting. Why are we still arguing this? They're not changing it, if people want to play as a female don't back it. Rad Russian fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jan 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:27
|
|
|
I remember people were commenting on Cradle's lack of information on their combat system, well, it looks like they updated their Kickstarter page with more information about it and a demo. Might have given more info on the story too?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:31
|
|
|
Rad Russian posted:Yes ONE example out of 400+ year period. The argument is not that it couldn't happen, it's that it was near impossible for it to happen. And it may have only been done once or twice in that whole time period. A man rising to power? Millions of examples in that time period, much more likely for a historical based setting. Because lots of people are making inaccurate statements, like this one: Rad Russian posted:A man rising to power? Millions of examples in that time period, much more likely for a historical based setting.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:35
|
|
|
That's the exception to the sad trend. I am very excited for Transistor though!
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:47
|
|
|
Kibayasu posted:Because lots of people are making inaccurate statements, like this one: Nah, he's just talking about dudes getting erections. You're not going to find many women of that time period with one of those. Angry Walrus posted:I remember people were commenting on Cradle's lack of information on their combat system, well, it looks like they updated their Kickstarter page with more information about it and a demo. Might have given more info on the story too? Their whole combat explanations sounds like your normal combat stuff. except, like, it'll auto shove people away from you instead of you having a kick button. It...just doesn't seem all that interestingly new even though it seems like they hired a resume writer to put together those blurbs.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:51
|
|
|
Clocks posted:As a girl who likes to play female characters, I always find it a bit off-putting when modern games don't have that option, unless the game is particularly character-based with a good story.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:52
|
|
|
With the intense focus on sandbox mechanics and Skyrim comparisons I assumed the story would be fairly loose and secondary to player freedom. Though I guess they do namedrop The Witcher (and more).
A proper kind of Kickstarter can't afford to not mention Dark Souls. Oh and there was that comparison to Ryse.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 02:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 15:50 |
|
|
Trapezium Dave posted:I liked being able to forge my own character in Mount and Blade so I was curious as to how much of this was in Kingdom Come. I'd also be fine with a fixed male character due to them wanting to tell a particular crafted story, but when the dismissal uses words like "political correctness can go gently caress itself" then it's a red flag to pull back and wait to see whether that crafted story isn't a steaming pile. I still have high hopes on the game, I somehow doubt their lovely opinions will make it a worse game. But it's hard to divorce my personal dislike for the team from the expectations for the game. Now im not so happy about these dudes getting the money they need.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 02:03
|
|