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Soulcleaver
Sep 25, 2007

Murderer

Lightning Knight posted:

I just feel really useless in ranked. My first game I got shitstomped by a Ryze as Anivia cause I had no clue what Ryze does and he just walked all over me
I wish LoL let you look at every champion's skills during the loading screen. It would be undoubtedly useful to people learning the game so they don't get completely sneak attacked, as well as veterans who need to remind themselves that the enemy's E does physical damage and scales with AP or whatever. The loading screens should have more useful information than "Nautilus's taunt makes him float around" ffs.

Actually, come to think of it, the in-game information on skills is severely lacking in details. Riot should just make https://www.leagueoflegends.wikia.com official and integrate the pertinent parts into the client.

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Factory Davey
Jan 9, 2010

I am aware of what the hands look like. I did my best. :(
League's bare-bones UI is the reason I've gravitated more towards Dota as a guy just starting to play MOBA's. Really wish they'd following that game's lead when it comes to the in-game guides.

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

Pray for Answer

Soulcleaver posted:

I wish LoL let you look at every champion's skills during the loading screen. It would be undoubtedly useful to people learning the game so they don't get completely sneak attacked, as well as veterans who need to remind themselves that the enemy's E does physical damage and scales with AP or whatever. The loading screens should have more useful information than "Nautilus's taunt makes him float around" ffs.

Actually, come to think of it, the in-game information on skills is severely lacking in details. Riot should just make https://www.leagueoflegends.wikia.com official and integrate the pertinent parts into the client.

I think you can look at their skills and stuff but I really like that the wiki shows you AP/AD/whatever scaling percentages and nitty gritty details and wish they could somehow put that in the game too. I feel like that would be a UI nightmare though.

Tried jungle Kayle for the first time, in a ranked game no less, and actually did really well overall. Her initial clear is somewhat dicey and she really needs her jungler item + Stinger to effectively clear but she can gank pretty well and I feel like she'd be pretty good at fighting an attempt to counterjungle if it came to that. I don't know if that game was representative though cause the other team ran a Panth/Xin kill lane and did poorly for themselves.

Been doing much better in ranked so far now that I've been placed, even though I haven't been winning a lot. I do think I have a 50/50 win rate so far though (2/2), so hey, I guess that's something, right? One of them I didn't even lose cause we were the worse team, we lost cause we lost a guy mid game, so I guess I'm feeling better about it now.

What's the word on jungle Poppy? The main thread seems to love it, and her, and I tried it and sort of liked it but it was a losing game we got stomped in so I didn't get a good feel for how to really play her. I was building her AP though, Lich Bane first, if it makes a difference.

Asema
Oct 2, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Baltazar Robotnik posted:

League's bare-bones UI is the reason I've gravitated more towards Dota as a guy just starting to play MOBA's. Really wish they'd following that game's lead when it comes to the in-game guides.

Valve gets a lot of things right that is completely overshadowed by the gameplay differences between League/Dota.

I'd kill for that client and feature list for League.

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.


Just a reminder to be a little careful with the DotA vs League talk. It's a sensitive subject for a lot of people on both sides of the fence, to the point the main threads actually have a rule about not discussing the opposing game in each other's threads.

occipitallobe
Jul 16, 2012

Tetraphagia posted:

When is a good time to use your W power chord? I'm a big fan of Sona, but I know I'm not using Power Chord as well as I should be. It seems like W would be super situational, where Q and E are almost always good choices.

I main support, and Sona's pretty much always been my main champ (along with Janna). This is kinda weird, but your W is by far the most powerful of your power chords. A Q chord is essentially for lane only, poking down the enemy early on. E is a great choice if you think you can secure a kill (or a flash, or a back) with it, but W is the power chord that scales into the lategame. In a high levelled teamfight, playing a Sona with 200 AP or so you can reduce someone's damage by 25% across the board. The best-timed Sona W's are the ones that hit an assassin - stop Zed, Kha'zix, or Leblanc from putting out 25% of their damage and you've likely just saved your carry.

If you and the enemy botlane go in for a fight, your W is not necessarily the best choice, however. At level 6, your Q chord adds a base of 43 damage. Your W chord stops 20% of all damage - good, but requiring the enemy adc to deal 215 (unadjusted by W) damage in the next 3 seconds to be useful. This is pretty much a judgement call. If you're facing down someone like Graves who can put down huge burst, that W chord is crucial. Conversely, if you're facing down a Caitlyn, you're often better off just hitting her with a Q chord in an effort to get her down quicker.

Also try and keep your Q aura up in lanefights. Armor doesn't have diminishing returns like AD which is why your W aura is so much better lategame (10 armor increases EHP by 10%, but 10 ad might only increase damage by 5%), but that early ad and ap from the Q on 2 champs is far better than a few extra points of armor on the one champ that's likely to be focused.

stump collector
May 28, 2007

Lightning Knight posted:

I think you can look at their skills and stuff but I really like that the wiki shows you AP/AD/whatever scaling percentages and nitty gritty details and wish they could somehow put that in the game too. I feel like that would be a UI nightmare though.

Tried jungle Kayle for the first time, in a ranked game no less, and actually did really well overall. Her initial clear is somewhat dicey and she really needs her jungler item + Stinger to effectively clear but she can gank pretty well and I feel like she'd be pretty good at fighting an attempt to counterjungle if it came to that. I don't know if that game was representative though cause the other team ran a Panth/Xin kill lane and did poorly for themselves.

Been doing much better in ranked so far now that I've been placed, even though I haven't been winning a lot. I do think I have a 50/50 win rate so far though (2/2), so hey, I guess that's something, right? One of them I didn't even lose cause we were the worse team, we lost cause we lost a guy mid game, so I guess I'm feeling better about it now.

What's the word on jungle Poppy? The main thread seems to love it, and her, and I tried it and sort of liked it but it was a losing game we got stomped in so I didn't get a good feel for how to really play her. I was building her AP though, Lich Bane first, if it makes a difference.

Poppy takes a while to get going. I'd take AS reds and AD quints, armor yellows, and AS blues if you can afford them. You need to build her as Lizard Elder to help with her clear times. You'll need potions early. Trinity force is core, get that next. You may want mobos for more map presence. Then maybe work into a LW/IE and a GA if you get fed.

How Rude
Aug 13, 2012


FUCK THIS SHIT

exethan posted:

Poppy takes a while to get going. I'd take AS reds and AD quints, armor yellows, and AS blues if you can afford them. You need to build her as Lizard Elder to help with her clear times. You'll need potions early. Trinity force is core, get that next. You may want mobos for more map presence. Then maybe work into a LW/IE and a GA if you get fed.

Tanky stuff like Randuin's would be a very good idea somewhere in there too.

Asema
Oct 2, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Zaodai posted:

Just a reminder to be a little careful with the DotA vs League talk. It's a sensitive subject for a lot of people on both sides of the fence, to the point the main threads actually have a rule about not discussing the opposing game in each other's threads.

I don't think any league player would choose to defend the Adobe Air client that Riot uses because it's complete garbage. I'm not talking from a gameplay/mechanics standpoint. I'm strictly speaking as a software engineer comparing two clients trying to meet the same end.


vvv ahh okay yeah that makes sense :shobon: vvv

Asema fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Feb 2, 2014

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.


I'm not saying they would. But given that this is a thread for new players, I figured it fair to warn them of that somewhat unique situation here on the forums so it wouldn't catch them unaware. Nothing said so far would be an issue. But it tends to snowball quickly.

I was just trying to save new people headaches down the road. :)

stump collector
May 28, 2007

How Rude posted:

Tanky stuff like Randuin's would be a very good idea somewhere in there too.

I think with jungle poppy the idea is to just rely on your passive and ult to stay alive.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Here's a question goons out of interest more than necessity. With mastersies and items that both give the same stat, how is it calculated?

Like, the Attack Speed % Mastery and say, Zephyr or whatever. How are they figured out? Is it cumulative like, you get 5% from your base stats based on the mastery, then an additional 50% of that new value (due to the new item), or are all they flat % from your base line stats (per level) and added on?

The reason why is I'm looking at my Diana Jungle runepage and I'm contemplating on Attack Speed mastery vs CDR. I'm running Attack Speed Marks and she has her passive, so I'm trying to figure out how it all works.

Flipswitch fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Feb 2, 2014

Power of Pecota
Aug 4, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!

occipitallobe posted:

Also try and keep your Q aura up in lanefights. Armor doesn't have diminishing returns like AD which is why your W aura is so much better lategame (10 armor increases EHP by 10%, but 10 ad might only increase damage by 5%), but that early ad and ap from the Q on 2 champs is far better than a few extra points of armor on the one champ that's likely to be focused.

I agree to max Q first, but in late teamfights I'm personally mashing Q+W (and very situationally E) to set up power chords/poke/heal over trying to keep a W aura up.

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.


Flipswitch posted:

Here's a question goons out of interest more than necessity. With mastersies and items that both give the same stat, how is it calculated?

Like, the Attack Speed % Mastery and say, Zephyr or whatever. How are they figured out? Is it cumulative like, you get 5% from your base stats based on the mastery, then an additional 50% of that new value (due to the new item), or are all they flat % from your base line stats (per level) and added on?

The reason why is I'm looking at my Diana Jungle runepage and I'm contemplating on Attack Speed mastery vs CDR. I'm running Attack Speed Marks and she has her passive, so I'm trying to figure out how it all works.

Bonuses from masteries work just like bonuses from items. They don't modify your base stats, you just get them at the start of the game.

[EDIT]Also attack speed on Diana tends to be somewhat of a trap. She's got a naturally bad base attack speed which in turn makes AS% increases worse for her than a lot of other champs.

Zaodai fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Feb 2, 2014

Catgirl Al Capone
Dec 15, 2007

How Rude posted:

Tanky stuff like Randuin's would be a very good idea somewhere in there too.

Generally if you buy pure defense items on Poppy you become a weird middle-of-the-road guy who can't kill targets fast enough to work. You need stuff with either mixed offensive/defensive stats like Abyssal Scepter, or at the most a GA last item that can revive you after a successful dive.

Stalling out Poppy's lategame with defensive items isn't a very good idea and can cost you the game if your opponents capitalize on the time you aren't Godpoppy.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Flipswitch posted:

Here's a question goons out of interest more than necessity. With mastersies and items that both give the same stat, how is it calculated?

Like, the Attack Speed % Mastery and say, Zephyr or whatever. How are they figured out? Is it cumulative like, you get 5% from your base stats based on the mastery, then an additional 50% of that new value (due to the new item), or are all they flat % from your base line stats (per level) and added on?

The reason why is I'm looking at my Diana Jungle runepage and I'm contemplating on Attack Speed mastery vs CDR. I'm running Attack Speed Marks and she has her passive, so I'm trying to figure out how it all works.

See if you can make heads or tails of this. I wanted to just say attack speed is multiplicative and leave it at that, but, uh, I can't quite confirm or deny the exact the math behind it. :shobon:

What I do know is that due to Diana's base attack speed being relatively low and only being artificially boosted by her passive, extra attack speed isn't as effective on her. At least, that was the common wisdom when she was released and folks were wondering if Nashor's Tooth was a good buy. With her slowly coming back into vogue I've heard occasional mentions of picking up Nashor's, but the math hasn't changed.

Personally, I'd say go with 5% CDR. A lot of Diana's ability to not die comes down to her shield. Anything you can get to improve its uptime, especially early on before you can squeak in some CDR items, is going to be more useful than a little extra attack speed. Doubly so because you're already running ASPD reds.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Sweet, thanks for the replies all. Will take a read over that wikia article too John Murdoch but I won't lie, mathematics is my weak point so I'll probably not understand it anyway. :v:

For the Nashors side. I've tried it and I sort of like it, but I find things tend to explode so quickly I can't really see myself getting any use out of it, even if it is good on paper. It's hard to gauge how much work is getting done by it and I think in the end I'd prefer another AP item over it. Especially as my jungle item is taking a slot.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Don't worry, it's not my strong suit either. :v:

My gut feeling is that if you want an auto-attack-based AP item on Diana, Lich Bane is the better choice.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Yeah it's definitely competing with Lich Bane over anything else in my item build, and I find I'm so mana starved a lot of the time that the extra 400 mana is making a huge difference too. She's great fun at least so I'm really enjoying experimenting with it.

GloriousDemon
May 1, 2009
Am I a huge scrub for playing AP Cho'gath?

I get Liandry's torment, berserker boots, rylai's scepter, nashor's tooth, trinity blade and cap it with a wizards hat. I ignore the silence scream until the last levels and prioritise his claw. I'm able to time careful ruptures so my get away power is fine, I usually have ghost and shield because flash wasn't great for my hitter build. Is my claw damage triggering half my scepter slow buff? I don't know.

It feels right, I'm raking in kills and pushing lanes, but is there something I should be doing to make it better?

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

Pray for Answer

exethan posted:

Poppy takes a while to get going. I'd take AS reds and AD quints, armor yellows, and AS blues if you can afford them. You need to build her as Lizard Elder to help with her clear times. You'll need potions early. Trinity force is core, get that next. You may want mobos for more map presence. Then maybe work into a LW/IE and a GA if you get fed.

So you think AD Poppy is stronger than AP Poppy? Huh. I would've thought it was the other way around, since Lich Bane puts out more damage than Trinity Force and her E scales to AP too.

quote:

Generally if you buy pure defense items on Poppy you become a weird middle-of-the-road guy who can't kill targets fast enough to work. You need stuff with either mixed offensive/defensive stats like Abyssal Scepter, or at the most a GA last item that can revive you after a successful dive.

Stalling out Poppy's lategame with defensive items isn't a very good idea and can cost you the game if your opponents capitalize on the time you aren't Godpoppy.

Makes sense, playing Poppy jungle felt a lot like playing Yi jungle, in that I just sat there and farmed, then casually waltzed out for a burst of bloody murder on somebody before retreating to the jungle again. Pure defense seems like it would be bad for her just cause she feels like she's really an assassin, more than a tank or fighter.

Does Poppy support work? Or Pantheon, for that matter? I've heard them mentioned and they both seem like fun characters to play in that role that I'd have more fun with than Annie, who is the only support I've been any good with so far but is kind of a one-trick pony (well, two trick, stun things and burn them alive).

KillerQueen
Jul 13, 2010

GloriousDemon posted:

Am I a huge scrub for playing AP Cho'gath?

I get Liandry's torment, berserker boots, rylai's scepter, nashor's tooth, trinity blade and cap it with a wizards hat. I ignore the silence scream until the last levels and prioritise his claw. I'm able to time careful ruptures so my get away power is fine, I usually have ghost and shield because flash wasn't great for my hitter build. Is my claw damage triggering half my scepter slow buff? I don't know.

It feels right, I'm raking in kills and pushing lanes, but is there something I should be doing to make it better?

Trinity force seems a little out-of-place if you're going Attackspeed+AP, I'd probably go for a Rabadons.
ed: I completely misread! Maybe a wit's end or a Guardian angel, depends on how hard you get focused.

As for are you a huge scrub, I really think that success in league is more about comfort with your champ and your playstyle than anything else.

Tetraphagia
Jun 27, 2006


Awesome, thanks! I'm trying to main support (I actually just keep playing ARAMs though) and this is super helpful!

Phenotype
Jul 24, 2007

You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.



GloriousDemon posted:

Am I a huge scrub for playing AP Cho'gath?

I get Liandry's torment, berserker boots, rylai's scepter, nashor's tooth, trinity blade and cap it with a wizards hat. I ignore the silence scream until the last levels and prioritise his claw. I'm able to time careful ruptures so my get away power is fine, I usually have ghost and shield because flash wasn't great for my hitter build. Is my claw damage triggering half my scepter slow buff? I don't know.

It feels right, I'm raking in kills and pushing lanes, but is there something I should be doing to make it better?

Cho'gath is fantastic in that you can build pretty much whatever you want on him according to how the game is going. If I'm dominating, I will build Chalice into Haunting Guise into Sorc Boots into Athene's, and then build a Deathcap or Abyssal Scepter. If it's a harder AD lane, I can build Glacial Shroud into Belt into Tabis and Frozen Fist and work on being a CC machine in teamfights. He has great AP ratios on his skills, including 1.0 on Q and 0.7(!) on the true damage Feast, and a lot of CC and base damage, so you can build him for AP damage or CDR tanky, or a mix of both, as the game requires. I'm not a huge fan of the autoattacker build, but I'd think you'd want Nashor's, Rylai's, possibly another big ticket item like Triforce or Liandry's if you're ahead, and then build tanky with the rest of your items. The build you listed is kinda half and half, and if you want to be in the middle of people spraying Void Spikes, you need more than some random HP here and there in your build to survive their burst.

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

Pray for Answer
I don't understand playing from behind. Playing from behind, to me, feels like sit under tower and hope you can farm without getting dived cause they're twice your level. I just don't get it. Every game I die early I might as well afk for how much good coming back to lane is going to do me. The only role I ever feel like I can come back from a deficit in is jungle.

poorlywrittennovel
Oct 9, 2012

Cho is one of the most versatile champs in game if you play him right, so running AP Cho isn't weird or bad at all. While his main role is being a tank, he puts out a surprising amount of damage if you can land his Q ->E combo. Don't be afraid to experiment with champs when you start to feel comfortable with them. Hell, I've seen plenty of builds that seem like they shouldn't work absolutely stomp the other team. As long as you know your champ, and know how to string together their skills, you can make almost anything work.

rabidsquid
Oct 11, 2004

LOVES THE KOG


Lightning Knight posted:

I don't understand playing from behind. Playing from behind, to me, feels like sit under tower and hope you can farm without getting dived cause they're twice your level. I just don't get it. Every game I die early I might as well afk for how much good coming back to lane is going to do me. The only role I ever feel like I can come back from a deficit in is jungle.

I had a game with two friends last week who live in the same house and they got disconnected after going to lane. Both died and couldn't reconnect until they were down three levels and we managed to win the game without anyone getting fed. I don't exactly know what they did but it's not an impossible task or anything. Learn to farm under tower, learn to stop playing like you aren't behind. The second one helped me start playing a lot better when I am behind.

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

Pray for Answer

rabidsquid posted:

I had a game with two friends last week who live in the same house and they got disconnected after going to lane. Both died and couldn't reconnect until they were down three levels and we managed to win the game without anyone getting fed. I don't exactly know what they did but it's not an impossible task or anything. Learn to farm under tower, learn to stop playing like you aren't behind. The second one helped me start playing a lot better when I am behind.

Yeah but that doesn't mean anything to me. I die once, I sit under tower, they kill me anyway. If I can't sit under tower and farm, then what am I supposed to do? I'm not going to get back into the game killing jungle creeps (and as somebody who likes jungling I find laners doing that intensely annoying until teamfighting begins) and roaming is pointless when you're behind cause you'll just feed other lanes too. I don't get it, it doesn't matter what character/match up - Anivia vs. Kha, Kayle v. Xin - I die once and then I might as well dance on the fountain. If I even come close to getting back into the lane, their jungler camps me. It's utterly frustrating and I don't understand how to fix it.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Lightning Knight posted:

I don't understand playing from behind. Playing from behind, to me, feels like sit under tower and hope you can farm without getting dived cause they're twice your level. I just don't get it. Every game I die early I might as well afk for how much good coming back to lane is going to do me. The only role I ever feel like I can come back from a deficit in is jungle.

That's what you do. You stay in EXP range, farm what you can, and try not to die any more. Take some jungle creeps if your jungler is currently busy somewhere else. If they're freezing lane or something else that means you can't even get CS, go roam and help other lanes.


Lightning Knight posted:

Yeah but that doesn't mean anything to me. I die once, I sit under tower, they kill me anyway. If I can't sit under tower and farm, then what am I supposed to do? I'm not going to get back into the game killing jungle creeps (and as somebody who likes jungling I find laners doing that intensely annoying until teamfighting begins) and roaming is pointless when you're behind cause you'll just feed other lanes too. I don't get it, it doesn't matter what character/match up - Anivia vs. Kha, Kayle v. Xin - I die once and then I might as well dance on the fountain. If I even come close to getting back into the lane, their jungler camps me. It's utterly frustrating and I don't understand how to fix it.


For one, there are very few people that can kill someone under tower from full with one kill. Even if you only get a wave or two of creeps before they harass you out of lane, it's still something. If you're dying when you're roaming, you're picking bad engages; you say you play jungle? Then just gank like you would if you were a jungler.

I think your primary issue is one of attitude. How you're feeling means a lot; if you give up when you get killed, then you play worse, which means you get killed more often, which means you give up more often, which means you lose.

poorlywrittennovel
Oct 9, 2012

Lightning Knight posted:

Yeah but that doesn't mean anything to me. I die once, I sit under tower, they kill me anyway. If I can't sit under tower and farm, then what am I supposed to do? I'm not going to get back into the game killing jungle creeps (and as somebody who likes jungling I find laners doing that intensely annoying until teamfighting begins) and roaming is pointless when you're behind cause you'll just feed other lanes too. I don't get it, it doesn't matter what character/match up - Anivia vs. Kha, Kayle v. Xin - I die once and then I might as well dance on the fountain. If I even come close to getting back into the lane, their jungler camps me. It's utterly frustrating and I don't understand how to fix it.

So you lose your lane. It happens. Even the best players lose lanes. The secret is don't let it get to you, and start playing the team game. Group up, take other objectives, keep yourself safe. Dieing once isn't the end of the world, it just means that you'll get set back for when laning ends. That's when you try to catch back up. Your mentality of "If I die once it's gg" is why you have so many problems in this game.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


For catching up as jungler, (or even laner) what I find helps is to take what farm you can safely, if it's going to overextend you* don't bother trying to get the CS, if a fight erupts, try to be the second or third person in so you're not the focus and can leach off the assists where possible.

*- Like, if your tower is gone and the wave is back to its default state half way, then I wouldn't unless its heavily warded by the support and/or you have recently spotted their jungler on other end of the map.

For jungler, hold as many lanes as you can as people are backing, grab what jungle camps you can and try to go for any easy ganks that show up, like bottom lane is seriously overextended and you can take it? go for it. It's harder as jungler though, that is for sure.

That's what I've been doing and it sort of works. It really gets hard though if you're behind as a jungler and your lanes are behind, it's basically a loss at that point unless the enemy team fucks up, which can happen a lot which is why I avoid surrendering until its a foregone conclusion that we've lost.

Power of Pecota
Aug 4, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!

Hellioning posted:

That's what you do. You stay in EXP range, farm what you can, and try not to die any more. Take some jungle creeps if your jungler is currently busy somewhere else. If they're freezing lane or something else that means you can't even get CS, go roam and help other lanes.

This pretty much nails it. Learning to play from behind and slowly close the gap instead of letting the other laner snowball is something that just comes with time - you'll get the hang of what you can get away with and what you can't with particular champs/in particular matchups after a while.

Don't be deterred by getting dumped on every once in a while, as long as you're learning from mistakes its totally okay. I've lost a few first-time lane matchups hard in the last few weeks (Cassiopeia vs. Talon, Mundo vs. Darius, Lux vs. Yi) but I've got a better idea of what to do in them from what went wrong in those games.

Asema
Oct 2, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Unless that Nexus is dead there is always a chance to come back unless you are platinum/diamond because people have no idea how to close a game out and/or get super cocky and get caught out and let the other team come back. Plus there is a great amount of experience to be gotten because you need to learn how to play from behind/play passively and to let the other person make a mistake to let you back into it.

Earnestly
Apr 24, 2010

Jazz hands!
Could anyone give me tips on early game Fiora? I find myself feeding too much if I die early.

psymonkey
May 22, 2006

This post is full of pretty awesome holes. I like all the holes in this post.
This is all aimed at bottom lane, but can be applied to a lesser extent to solo lanes.

The best thing you can do to avoid being in a situation where you're gonna get dove under tower and die is to be aggressive right from level one. I don't necessarily mean going all in on the enemy, because then you'll draw creep aggro and lose a level 1 trade hard. What you want to do is make sure that your creep wave is bigger by auto attacking theirs as much as you can without eating harass. This ensures a few things:
1. If they auto attack you they'll take a lot of creep damage (which is significant at early levels). Conversely, you can auto attack them all day and they can't do much about it because if they attack you in return they'll take more creep damage from your bigger wave.
2. You will hit level 2 first, and hitting level 2 first gives you a window into getting a very favorable trade for yourself.
3. Even if their jungler comes and ganks you when you're pushed up, your bigger creep wave will possibly help you escape, or they will miss a lot of creeps chasing you down while the wave pushes into their tower. Even if one of you dies, at the very least they won't be able to push the wave into your tower and make you miss an entire wave.

Think of the alternative, if you are getting pushed in, they can still dive you under tower with their jungler, and even if you trade 1 for 1 or 2 for 2, you're still going to miss the huge creep wave at your tower and probably most of the next one coming.

Next, if you ARE getting pushed in, like say your support dies like an idiot or something, then the best thing you can do is stay at full health until the creep wave gets to your tower, even if it means missing last hits or experience. It's not worth it to get a last hit just to lose half your HP. Also it is perfectly fine to go take the Wight camp or double golems in this situation . Getting mad about this as a jungler means you're a bad player.

Finally, if you die or are plainly behind in lane or something, don't be afraid to go for a second dorans item and a lot of pots. Sometimes you're just delaying the inevitable, and it becomes your job to feed less than the most feeding person on the other team.

pog boyfriend
Jul 2, 2011

Earnestly posted:

Could anyone give me tips on early game Fiora? I find myself feeding too much if I die early.

That's honestly the entire problem with Fiora!!! The best advice I can give you is "don't take free damage", but aside from that, good luck.

GoldenSeraph
Mar 8, 2006
reincarnation time!
Wow Riot.

Last night I was playing a Normal, and at about ~25 mins in some very bad lag was happening, and another teammate commented on it and then BAM, everyone was frozen. After like 5-10 mins of waiting I just disconnected. I then find out that server issues were happening, a DDoS attack? anyway, I just didn't play for the rest of the night thinking I would get a Loss Prevented. NOPE. Got a Leave on that game when I was doing really well and just kind of worried it would go against my record as I don't want to get flagged as a leaver.

I saw that there has been server issues again today after logging in and now I don't know if I should even play without worrying about getting another Leave if the server goes tits up again.

What the hell Riot

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

Pray for Answer

GoldenSeraph posted:

Wow Riot.

Last night I was playing a Normal, and at about ~25 mins in some very bad lag was happening, and another teammate commented on it and then BAM, everyone was frozen. After like 5-10 mins of waiting I just disconnected. I then find out that server issues were happening, a DDoS attack? anyway, I just didn't play for the rest of the night thinking I would get a Loss Prevented. NOPE. Got a Leave on that game when I was doing really well and just kind of worried it would go against my record as I don't want to get flagged as a leaver.

I saw that there has been server issues again today after logging in and now I don't know if I should even play without worrying about getting another Leave if the server goes tits up again.

What the hell Riot

I really don't think they actually care too much about you leaving normals unless you do so consistently and habitually. Ranked may be different though, I dunno.

Jayce is hilariously fun but I can't really carry as him, I'm finding. Even when I win lane, if the rest of my team got hosed up and fed their mid Ahri there isn't much I can do. :sigh:

Also Yasuo is hella OP, please nerf.

occipitallobe
Jul 16, 2012

Power of Pecota posted:

I agree to max Q first, but in late teamfights I'm personally mashing Q+W (and very situationally E) to set up power chords/poke/heal over trying to keep a W aura up.

It basically comes down to 'what am I hitting last'? Given that you're probably hitting all three buttons around the same time, (assume 0.5 seconds per cast), they're all going to be up in that order. Sona is one of the few champs who has the same cooldowns on all of her non-Q skills. So it's not 'don't press all the buttons' but 'hit the one that gives you the aura you want last'. In a teamfight this is pretty easy - E is usually first to help position for the fight, Q does damage as the enemy comes in, and W brings up the rear to help whoever's taken the most damage. Then those skills will come down cooldown in that order, so if you hit E-Q-W, chances are you're going to have your W aura up for 90% of the fight, which gives your entire team an additional 10% ehp, as opposed to your Q, which gives your team maybe 3-4% additional damage lategame.

Don't not use skills in order to keep an aura up, just be mindful of which skills you're using and in which order. Remember, after changing your aura the previous one remains up for 1 second as well, so if you can E-Q-W in 1.5 seconds every 7 seconds (assuming no cdr because of reasons) you're only going to have 0.5 seconds out of every 7 where you don't have the protection of your W aura.


Tetraphagia posted:

Awesome, thanks! I'm trying to main support (I actually just keep playing ARAMs though) and this is super helpful!

Honestly, I don't know any other supports that well (in terms of their numbers) beyond Janna, but Sona is just one of those champs who looks super simple with a 'press buttans win game' design, but in reality she's pretty deep and well put together. Her kit is put together so you can maintain one aura almost 100% of the time, and choose which one of them it's going to be without losing the option to use your abilities at will. The fun in playing her is looking at the stuff nobody else notices and using it to stomp a Leona or Thresh in lane. Also, people think she's in the dumpster due to the pre-eminence of those two champs, but the gold changes really benefited supports who do damage - if you pick Sona into a lane without a lot of heal you can use one of the strongest level 1s in the game (in damage terms) to ensure that their level 2 all-in fails miserably.

Janna on the other hand you should only play if someone grabs Leona, because her laning power is nonexistent right now.

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DarkstarIV
Apr 6, 2010

OFFICIAL RACIST
:havlat: Free Champ Rotation for the next week! :havlat:

Nami, Draven, Malphite, Shen, Sivir, Anivia, Elise, Orianna, Karthus, and Kha'Zix.

Nami is a fun support, but you need to land bubbles or your ADC will be in a lot of pain. She has great chemistry with Draven though!

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