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Broken Machine posted:Sure, here So is there a leaked copy of his resume somewhere? What kind of skills and work experience gets someone with fake education hired for 120k? Also, it's apparently now confirmed that the Ukrainian authorities used phone information to target protestors. NYT posted:Protesters for weeks had suspected that the government was using location data from cellphones near the demonstration to pinpoint people for political profiling, and they received alarming confirmation when a court formally ordered a telephone company to hand over such data. mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jan 31, 2014 |
# ? Jan 31, 2014 22:08 |
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# ? May 22, 2024 12:20 |
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mobby_6kl posted:So is there a leaked copy of his resume somewhere? What kind of skills and work experience gets someone with fake education hired for 120k? Dudes got practial training (IE self taught). Worked as a security guard for the CIA after washing out of the military, managed to jump to IT, did his time there for a few years and then went to work for Dell under NSA contract in Japan and then eventually over to Hawaii for his last job before the disclosure. IT isn't always about schooling and certs, some fields are all about exposure. DOD, Health, Financial, once you sit it out at one or the other for a bit you are sitting pretty for life regardless of training.
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# ? Jan 31, 2014 23:06 |
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http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/31/footage-released-guardian-editors-snowden-hard-drives-gchqquote:New video footage has been released for the first time of the moment Guardian editors destroyed computers used to store top-secret documents leaked by the NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden. Video in link. Reminder that agents of a western democratic government barged into a newspaper and forced them to destroy evidence of that government's lies and wrongdoing in a display that was utterly pointless except as naked intimidation. Tezzor fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Feb 1, 2014 |
# ? Feb 1, 2014 13:54 |
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I like seeing non-American Five Eyes responses to Snowden documents, if but because the parliamentary systems of those countries seem to be less restrained than the formalities of American government. For example, Canadian parliamentary secretary Paul Calandra referring to Glenn Greenwald as a "porn spy" while providing a non-denial denial. Stay classy Harper government.
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# ? Feb 1, 2014 15:26 |
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It would be really funny if the U of Liverpool mailed Snowden a master's degree. It's not like he hasn't earned it.
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# ? Feb 1, 2014 21:26 |
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Tezzor posted:http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/31/footage-released-guardian-editors-snowden-hard-drives-gchq quote:Just after 7pm, Guardian US went ahead and ran the story. Is this just paranoia or did the NSA actually some how order the destruction and rebuilding of sidewalks? Seems too bizarre.
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# ? Feb 2, 2014 21:57 |
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Kurt_Cobain posted:Along those lines I doubt they ripped up a sidewalk in front of both the Guardian's office and the Guardian's editor's house in the middle of the night just to be a nuisance. It's more likely they installed a tap to see what unencrypted data they could siphon. When a writer emails a draft to the editor, the NSA gets advanced notice of the story. Email a new leak to the Guardian and they'll raid the office to keep the story from being published (this has already happened several times under both the Bush and Obama administrations). And of course better intelligence would let them prepare their responses better so they're not caught in transparent lies quite so frequently. Surveilling members of the media to undermine and suppress their stories is of course wildly police state-y, but we knew that was going on even before Snowden started leaking. Handling anything remotely interesting while the data is unencrypted is asking for trouble at this point. Hopefully they realize that. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Feb 2, 2014 |
# ? Feb 2, 2014 22:37 |
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Yea they can definitely do stuff like that. I've seen line workers interrupted by black SUVs and poo poo here in DC when they presumably cut the wrong line or whatever.
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# ? Feb 2, 2014 23:24 |
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There's an FOIA now showing details from the DEA's end on how they handle "parallel construction" tips. https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/dea-policies-on-parallel-construction-6434/ Gist of it is they absolutely never reveal the source of the information in open court. They will drop the evidence and rewrite the indictments before they consent to anything more than an in camera review, and only that as a last resort; case managers are encouraged to shape evidence chains so neither field-level agents nor the prosecution are even aware of the ultimate source of the tip so as to avoid those pesky Brady obligations. (Paging Kalman.) There is also something called a Taint Review Team (huaehuaehuae) which acts as a backstop in case these processes fail. Bonus points for including the world's most obvious redaction: Having skimmed the case, let me reverse engineer the redacted part for you: "All of the caveats we listed above, however, don't matter if you can catch the perp in the act. Then you don't have to reveal poo poo. Therefore, when handling parallel construction cases, timing your bust is everything." The sheer number of B7E redactions on the traffic stop slide decks tends to confirm the anonymous testimony in the original Reuters story about how parallel construction actually works in practice the vast majority of the time. A local K9 unit gets told "search this car at this time" and nothing else, and no one involved with the case will ever be the wiser unless someone fucks up. Elotana fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Feb 4, 2014 |
# ? Feb 4, 2014 16:27 |
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You know the fact that a federal law enforcement agency is using a terrorism program to engage in a massive conspiracy to commit systemic perjury really isn't getting enough traction in the media, I've never heard it mentioned on television, it's all talk about metadata.
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# ? Feb 4, 2014 17:05 |
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Reminder that Chris Christie came out swinging hard for the NSA when the leaks started - he was a Federal Prosecutor who could have been working with parallel construction. Now he is in trouble because emails provide an objective record for investigators. Karma.
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# ? Feb 4, 2014 17:08 |
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Tezzor posted:You know the fact that a federal law enforcement agency is using a terrorism program to engage in a massive conspiracy to commit systemic perjury really isn't getting enough traction in the media, I've never heard it mentioned on television, it's all talk about metadata.
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# ? Feb 4, 2014 18:27 |
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Elotana posted:It's actually not systemic perjury, the slides are very explicit about the fact that you do not let it get to the point where someone is testifying as to the source of the tips. Like I said, it's all about managing the chain of evidence so that it stays just beyond the reach of the defendant, which usually means keeping it in the upper reaches of LE (who don't normally testify) and out of the field agents (who do testify) and the prosecution (subject to Brady). Doesn't it become perjury when LE claims it was just a random traffic stop? There's a chain of orders from NSA to whoever's driving the squad car. Someone has to lie.
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# ? Feb 4, 2014 19:44 |
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At the HPSCI panel today Rogers kept trying to bait FBI director Comey to try and go along with the "accomplices" angle for journalists publishing the Snowden stories, but Comey kept ducking that one. Good? I guess? Sad that a moral victory today is that we're not criminalizing journalism. Rogers was pissed when Clapper didn't agree with him that Snowden handed everything to the The House Judiciary panel was more fun, at least because there was the mix of people yelling about the IRS in between people asking sensible questions, Goodlatte included. Standouts were Lofgren basically telling James Cole to gently caress himself by cutting him off and moving to the next panelist because he was obfuscating, and Nadler commenting on the very rare occurrence of him being, "In total agreement with the gentleman from Wisconsin." (Sensenbrenner). Also Cole totally ducked the question about what happens if handing the metadata to a third party fails.
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# ? Feb 4, 2014 19:47 |
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hepatizon posted:Doesn't it become perjury when LE claims it was just a random traffic stop? There's a chain of orders from NSA to whoever's driving the squad car. Someone has to lie. Not necessarily. The NSA tells the LEO high-ups to find a reason to stop car X at time Y tomorrow. The high-ups pass along the tip and the street-level guys do the bust. They say they had a tip, which is technically correct, and they don't know enough to technically commit perjury since every random officer isn't going to know the complete pedigree of every bit of information they use, and probably doesn't even know they're coordinating with the NSA. The problem is that police officers get an extremely heavy presumption of good-faith behavior, and even when they're not operating in good faith if the case is strong enough there will be enough "good" bits to put you away regardless. There's plenty of other "tips" that are also crooked police informants, other people they've blackmailed into plea deals, overblown, or just crooked cops making poo poo up. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Feb 4, 2014 |
# ? Feb 4, 2014 19:51 |
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Paul MaudDib posted:Not necessarily. The NSA tells the LEO high-ups to find a reason to stop car X at time Y tomorrow. The high-ups pass along the tip and the street-level guys do the bust. They say they had a tip, which is technically correct, and they don't know enough to technically commit perjury since every random officer isn't going to know the complete pedigree of every bit of information they use, and probably doesn't even know they're coordinating with the NSA. Claiming it's an anonymous tip would be perjury, right? Do random officers get so much benefit of the doubt that "I don't know where the tip came from" is enough to stop the defense attorney? Assuming the defense attorney has heard of parallel construction.
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# ? Feb 4, 2014 19:57 |
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hepatizon posted:Claiming it's an anonymous tip would be perjury, right? Do random officers get so much benefit of the doubt that "I don't know where the tip came from" is enough to stop the defense attorney? Assuming the defense attorney has heard of parallel construction. It would be perjury if the street cop knew that the tip originated with the NSA. However, it would not be perjury for a high-up to lie that it was an anonymous/properly sourced tip to the agent, and allow the agent to testify as such to the court, since the high-up is not under oath and the street cop did not know his information was wrong. It also wouldn't be perjury for the street cop to testify that he didn't know the origin of the tip as long as he had no knowledge that a specific tip originated from the NSA (even if the street cop generally knew the department was coordinating with the NSA). Furthermore, most Federal court cases don't get to the point where they're digging hard into evidence, they throw down a charge of 70 years in Federal prison and force you to plea-bargain. If you decide to actually have a trial, (a) you'll lose anyway, since they are the ones who decide that poo poo like parallel construction is legal, and (b) you'll go away for twice as long. Plea bargains are such a cute way around the Constitutional right to a trial and all the evidentiary standards. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Feb 4, 2014 |
# ? Feb 4, 2014 20:06 |
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hepatizon posted:Claiming it's an anonymous tip would be perjury, right? Do random officers get so much benefit of the doubt that "I don't know where the tip came from" is enough to stop the defense attorney? Assuming the defense attorney has heard of parallel construction. Doesn't matter if the tip doesn't come up in court. If the officer sees or hears something illegal, then it doesn't really matter why the officer was there, unless discrimination or other illegal conduct is being alleged. Since anonymous tips are a regular feature of police work, defense attorneys had little reason to dig into the source of the tip. Besides, the point of parallel construction is to come up with alternate reasons for the police action so that the tip is never even mentioned in court at all.
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# ? Feb 4, 2014 20:11 |
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Paul MaudDib posted:It would be perjury if the street cop knew that the tip originated with the NSA. However, it would not be perjury for a high-up to lie that it was an anonymous/properly sourced tip to the agent, and allow the agent to testify as such to the court, since the high-up is not under oath and the street cop did not know his information was wrong. Paul MaudDib posted:Furthermore, most Federal court cases don't get to the point where they're digging hard into evidence, they throw down a charge of 70 years in Federal prison and force you to plea-bargain. If you decide to fight it, (a) you'll lose and (b) you'll go away for twice as long.
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# ? Feb 4, 2014 20:11 |
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hepatizon posted:Isn't that hearsay, though? It would be heresay, but it would also establish good faith on the part of the officer, and officers performing illegal but good-faith searches are an exception to the exclusionary rule. An illegal tip leading to a good-faith but illegal search basically retreads US v. Leon. quote:US v Leon (1984) There's also another case that basically establishes that it doesn't matter why the cop stopped you if he catches you in the act. This is what I mean with my expanded part (a) above - the Feds are the ones who set the rules, and they've ruled parallel construction, illegal-but-good-faith searches, and so on to all be things that don't count as "fruit of the poisoned tree". The exceptions are already there, it's just a matter of tweaking and social-engineering the police work of the case so that everyone is acting in good faith and protected and no one is committing perjury, and the defendant has no idea of the shadiness or any recourse to avoid prison even if they did. That is, in a nutshell, what this DEA presentation is all about - the ways to game the legal framework protecting defendants. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Feb 4, 2014 |
# ? Feb 4, 2014 20:22 |
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Regarding tips, a legal rationale cited by the DEA documents is Scher v. US, a 1938 case in which prohibition agents received a tip that someone was breaking the alcohol ban, put that person under surveillance, and eventually caught the person with whiskey. Scher presumably fought the validity of the surveillance by attacking the tip that started it all off, but the courts held that the source of the tip is "unimportant" if the agent finds illegal activity when they investigate it. Of course, whether a case that old is still valid precedent is something I'm uncertain of, and everything around that statement is redacted so who knows what conduct they're using it to justify? That's not really what parallel construction is, though. It's not about giving the tip in court but hiding the source, it's about using the tip to construct a parallel chain of evidence that doesn't start from the tip, so that you never even have to mention the tip in court. Basically, the tip is so classified that it can't be revealed in court, so officers are supposed to use the information in the tip to help them find evidence that can be used in court, and then cover up the existence of the tip and pretend they found the evidence all on their own. Ideally, information is structured so that the people carrying out the arrest, as well as the prosecutor, aren't aware of the tip at all. For example, let's say the cops suspect Person A of something, but they can't find any proof. So they send the DEA a request to dig up some surveillance, and the DEA sends them a secret tip saying to, say, check Person A's bank accounts or watch Location B for his drug deals. So the cops check Person A's bank accounts, put Location B under surveillance, find the suspicious transactions and meetups, and build a whole case based on that. But when it comes to court, they won't mention the tip - they'll pretend they came up with the idea to check the bank accounts all on their own, and they'll say that their surveillance on Location B was just part of routine surveillance on likely places they thought the suspect might be using for dirty business. Now, the documents posted above aren't really that useful, because they cover all the DEA's of handling sensitive information, of which parallel reconstruction is just one - and more importantly, almost everything in the document that specifically pertains to parallel reconstruction in the document is redacted or missing entirely. For example, page 166 of the document is titled "Use Parallel Reconstruction" and labeled "Page 252", but page 167 is labeled "Page 262" and page 168 is labeled "Page 267" - in other words, thirteen pages were straight-up deleted from the document that they released. Most of the unredacted info in the document is dedicated to their other, legal methods of hiding classified evidence from the defendant, like having secret meetings with the judge and giving them the info without informing the defense that the evidence even exists. The little amount of unredacted information about parallel reconstruction mostly amounts to teaching officers how to carry out legal word-wrangling for concealing the evidence in the event that you manage to get called on it - for example, arguing that the initial tip isn't relevant or material evidence and therefore is not required to be disclosed to the defense. Lastly, there might be something even worse hidden away in the DEA's methods. Pages 154/155 stick out to me (all emphasis original, redaction blocks replaced with "[REDACTED]"): quote:4 methods Americans will accept (so far...) to combine IC & LEA collection efforts and trial of the defendant So for parallel construction, they redacted pretty much everything besides the name and halfhearted legal justifications...but what the hell is that first thing that's so classified they won't even reveal the name? Maybe I could find some hints if I scroll up a hundred-odd pages and read through again, but they're being pretty thorough about redacting any hint that they might be hiding things without the knowledge of a judge.
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# ? Feb 4, 2014 21:25 |
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Main Paineframe posted:So for parallel construction, they redacted pretty much everything besides the name and halfhearted legal justifications...but what the hell is that first thing that's so classified they won't even reveal the name? Maybe I could find some hints if I scroll up a hundred-odd pages and read through again, but they're being pretty thorough about redacting any hint that they might be hiding things without the knowledge of a judge. That's the bit Elotana was looking at earlier. Muckrock ran a separate article on that. quote:The only details on this mysteriously legal tactic come from a handful of Supreme Court case references. Legal justifications include Whren v. United States, which established that the actual aim of officers in making a traffic stop is of no consequence so long as they have independent justification to pull a motorist over. I think Elotana's guess is a pretty solid one here. There's two court cases, one that says "it doesn't matter what the actual aim of a traffic stop is if they can justify the stop on its own merits", the other says "it doesn't matter where the tip comes from if investigating it uncovers actual wrongdoing". The logical synthesis of those two ideas is "catch them red handed and you can justify it as a traffic stop, the court doesn't need to know about the tip at all". That's the method there - catch someone with a trunk full of weed and the court isn't going to ask questions, and you're legally protected from answering questions even if they do. Americans are OK with it because no one likes criminals anyway and the public doesn't doubt you're a criminal when you're caught red handed. Elotana posted:Having skimmed the case, let me reverse engineer the redacted part for you: "All of the caveats we listed above, however, don't matter if you can catch the perp in the act. Then you don't have to reveal poo poo. Therefore, when handling parallel construction cases, timing your bust is everything." The sheer number of B7E redactions on the traffic stop slide decks tends to confirm the anonymous testimony in the original Reuters story about how parallel construction actually works in practice the vast majority of the time. A local K9 unit gets told "search this car at this time" and nothing else, and no one involved with the case will ever be the wiser unless someone fucks up. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Feb 4, 2014 |
# ? Feb 4, 2014 21:31 |
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Yes, exactly. Under the current rules of evidence plus the Scher precedent, if the cop pulls someone over and they're caught red-handed, the prosecution will object to any inquiry as to the source of the tip as irrelevant and it will be sustained and that will be the end of it. On the off chance something goes wrong, this is all happening in limine, which gives the Taint Review Team time to come in and initiate a CIPA hearing to limit the damage and try their damndest to keep it out of open court.
Elotana fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Feb 4, 2014 |
# ? Feb 4, 2014 21:43 |
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I doubt they're actually catching most of these guys "red-handed," though. I bet if you're smuggling drugs to the extent that the DEA is using NSA files to track and bust you you're not just leaving baggies of weed sitting in open view in the backseat of your car. There's got to be no real probable cause in most of these cases aside from the anonymous tip, which means somebody is lying to the court. About why they pulled the suspect over, about smelling or seeing drugs in open sight, about why the K9 unit was called, about the suspect getting belligerent, whatever.
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# ? Feb 5, 2014 01:30 |
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Sure, but those kinds of low-level reasonable suspicion / probable cause lies go on all the time. A K9 unit itself is pretty much a legal fiction. The point is they're not lying about the tips; parallel construction is about putting them in a position where it's unnecessary to testify about them in the first place.
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# ? Feb 5, 2014 02:05 |
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http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/war-anonymous-british-spies-attacked-hackers-snowden-docs-show-n21361quote:A secret British spy unit created to mount cyber attacks on Britain’s enemies has waged war on the hacktivists of Anonymous and LulzSec, according to documents taken from the National Security Agency by Edward Snowden and obtained by NBC News.
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# ? Feb 5, 2014 06:19 |
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Elotana posted:Sure, but those kinds of low-level reasonable suspicion / probable cause lies go on all the time. A K9 unit itself is pretty much a legal fiction. The point is they're not lying about the tips; parallel construction is about putting them in a position where it's unnecessary to testify about them in the first place. Seriously, it can be as simple as "I pulled him over because he appeared to have a non-functioning taillight. I found that I was mistaken, and was ready to give him a sincere apology and let him on his way when I smelled what I believed at the time to be the odor of marijuana." Considering I personally know several people who were harassed by a city police department (all fake "busted taillight" stops), this is neither implausible nor something that's easy to challenge. Even when a cop "smells pot" and finds anything but pot, it's ridiculously difficult to challenge the "I smelled something, searched, and found stuff" construction. "I smell marijuana" may be the most frightening thing an innocent person can hear - they can detain you for a K9 search, tear your car apart, and even leave it wholly or partially inoperable, and in many places you have literally zero recourse.
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# ? Feb 5, 2014 09:41 |
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Well, the fact that it's common doesn't really dispute that it's perjury, does it? In other news: Here is the UK law that criminalizes DDOS attacks: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/48/section/36 Unindicted felon James Clapper spent yesterday accusing journalists who report on the Snowden story of being accomplices. Why is this man still employed? Tezzor fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Feb 5, 2014 |
# ? Feb 5, 2014 15:23 |
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Anyone here know anything about Mossad, MSS, or GRU's take on the whole Snowden affair?
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# ? Feb 6, 2014 04:13 |
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'We'll take care of your Snowden problem if you free Jonathan Pollard'
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# ? Feb 6, 2014 04:26 |
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SedanChair posted:It would be really funny if the U of Liverpool mailed Snowden a master's degree. It's not like he hasn't earned it. It is a pretty impressive thesis on computer security.
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# ? Feb 6, 2014 22:40 |
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A while back we had the drone thread where certain people argued vehemently that the ARGUS-IS drone-based tracking systems (or similar) would be utterly impractical for use in urban areas. Turns out, not so.quote:DAYTON, Ohio — Shooter and victim were just a pair of pixels, dark specks on a gray streetscape. Hair color, bullet wounds, even the weapon were not visible in the series of pictures taken from an airplane flying two miles above. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Feb 7, 2014 17:38 |
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Paul MaudDib posted:A while back we had the drone thread where certain people argued vehemently that the ARGUS-IS drone-based tracking systems (or similar) would be utterly impractical for use in urban areas. Turns out, not so. Surprise, engineers are, as a rule, full of poo poo about feasibility.
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# ? Feb 7, 2014 17:44 |
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Tezzor posted:http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/war-anonymous-british-spies-attacked-hackers-snowden-docs-show-n21361 Am I the only one not particularly bothered by this leak? I'm concerned about mass surveillance, I'm a lot less surprised that government agencies (of any government) would be monitoring and disrupting the activities of hacker groups that are targeting the government. Obviously this could be taken too far, and if it lead to surveillance and disruption of groups that aren't doing anything illegal, that would be a big loving problem, but as it is I don't see what the big deal is. I would expect the government to be doing something like this in response to LolzSec, the entire point of the group was to hack into government websites. Sucrose fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Feb 7, 2014 |
# ? Feb 7, 2014 18:11 |
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parallel construction is nothing more than lying in court. Don't get it confused, don't try to overthink it, it is nothing more than police recieving tips from unlawful spying and lying to cover up their bullshit.
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# ? Feb 7, 2014 18:19 |
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Sucrose posted:Am I the only one not particularly bothered by this leak? I'm concerned about mass surveillance, I'm a lot less surprised that government agencies (of any government) would be monitoring and disrupting the activities of hacker groups that are targeting the government. Obviously this could be taken too far, and if it lead to surveillance and disruption of groups that aren't doing anything illegal, that would be a big loving problem, but as it is I don't see what the big deal is. I would expect the government to be doing something like this in response to LolzSec, the entire point of the group was to hack into government websites. How about the fact that they were committing criminal actions against their own citizens?
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# ? Feb 7, 2014 18:24 |
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hepatizon posted:Surprise, engineers are, as a rule, full of poo poo about feasibility. As a rule, you are a loving idiot. While we're at it maybe we should gang up on philosophers as well and see if it helps.
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# ? Feb 7, 2014 18:28 |
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konna posted:As a rule, you are a loving idiot. While we're at it maybe we should gang up on philosophers as well and see if it helps. Simmer down hoss, I'm an engineer. And philosophers are more full of poo poo than anyone so I don't really get your point.
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# ? Feb 7, 2014 19:36 |
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# ? May 22, 2024 12:20 |
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Tezzor posted:How about the fact that they were committing criminal actions against their own citizens? Like what?
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# ? Feb 7, 2014 20:06 |