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mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

So is there a leaked copy of his resume somewhere? What kind of skills and work experience gets someone with fake education hired for 120k?


Also, it's apparently now confirmed that the Ukrainian authorities used phone information to target protestors.

NYT posted:

Protesters for weeks had suspected that the government was using location data from cellphones near the demonstration to pinpoint people for political profiling, and they received alarming confirmation when a court formally ordered a telephone company to hand over such data.

Earlier this month, protesters at a clash with riot police officers received text messages on their phones saying they had been “registered as a participant in a mass disturbance.”

Then, three cellphone companies — Kyivstar, MTS and Life — denied that they had provided the location data to the government or had sent the text messages. Kyivstar suggested that it was instead the work of a “pirate” cellphone tower set up in the area.

In a ruling made public on Wednesday, a city court ordered Kyivstar to disclose to the police which cellphones were turned on during an antigovernment protest outside the courthouse on Jan. 10.


The order applied only to this one site on one day, and did not cover the area of the main protest, Independence Square, where sometimes more than 100,000 people have shown up, most presumably carrying cellphones whose location there could identify them as political opponents of the government.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/01/ukrainian-police-use-cellphones-to-track-protestors-court-order-shows/

mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jan 31, 2014

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Spaceman Future!
Feb 9, 2007

mobby_6kl posted:

So is there a leaked copy of his resume somewhere? What kind of skills and work experience gets someone with fake education hired for 120k?


Also, it's apparently now confirmed that the Ukrainian authorities used phone information to target protestors.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/01/ukrainian-police-use-cellphones-to-track-protestors-court-order-shows/

Dudes got practial training (IE self taught). Worked as a security guard for the CIA after washing out of the military, managed to jump to IT, did his time there for a few years and then went to work for Dell under NSA contract in Japan and then eventually over to Hawaii for his last job before the disclosure. IT isn't always about schooling and certs, some fields are all about exposure. DOD, Health, Financial, once you sit it out at one or the other for a bit you are sitting pretty for life regardless of training.

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/31/footage-released-guardian-editors-snowden-hard-drives-gchq

quote:

New video footage has been released for the first time of the moment Guardian editors destroyed computers used to store top-secret documents leaked by the NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden.

Video in link.

Reminder that agents of a western democratic government barged into a newspaper and forced them to destroy evidence of that government's lies and wrongdoing in a display that was utterly pointless except as naked intimidation.

Tezzor fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Feb 1, 2014

Aurubin
Mar 17, 2011

I like seeing non-American Five Eyes responses to Snowden documents, if but because the parliamentary systems of those countries seem to be less restrained than the formalities of American government. For example, Canadian parliamentary secretary Paul Calandra referring to Glenn Greenwald as a "porn spy" while providing a non-denial denial. Stay classy Harper government. :allears:

internaut
Mar 2, 2007

I don't stop for nothin', kid.
Don't forget Australia's PM Tony Abbott calling Snowden a traitor and not-so-subtly implying the ABC will be punished for reporting on the leaks.

World Socialist Website posted:


“A lot of people feel at the moment that the ABC instinctively takes everyone’s side but Australia’s,” Abbott declared in an interview on a right-wing “shock jock” radio program. Referring to the revelations of monitoring Indonesian leaders, he stated: “I was very worried and concerned a few months back when the ABC seemed to delight in broadcasting allegations by a traitor. This gentlemen Snowden, or this individual Snowden, who has betrayed his country and in the process has badly, badly damaged other countries that are friends of the United States. And of course the ABC didn’t just report what he said, they took the lead in advertising what he said.”

Abbott added that “it dismays Australians when the national broadcaster appears to take everyone’s side but our own” and that he wanted the ABC to have “at least some basic affection for our home team, so to speak.”

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
It would be really funny if the U of Liverpool mailed Snowden a master's degree. It's not like he hasn't earned it.

Kurt_Cobain
Jul 9, 2001

Tezzor posted:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/31/footage-released-guardian-editors-snowden-hard-drives-gchq


Video in link.

Reminder that agents of a western democratic government barged into a newspaper and forced them to destroy evidence of that government's lies and wrongdoing in a display that was utterly pointless except as naked intimidation.
Along those lines

quote:

Just after 7pm, Guardian US went ahead and ran the story.

That evening, diggers arrived and tore up the sidewalk immediately in front of the Guardian's US office, a mysterious activity for a Wednesday night. With smooth efficiency, they replaced it. More diggers arrived outside Gibson's home in Brooklyn. Soon, every member of the Snowden team was able to recount similar unusual moments: "taxi drivers" who didn't know the way or the fare; "window cleaners" who lingered next to the editor's office. "Very quickly, we had to get better at spycraft," Gibson says.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/01/edward-snowden-intelligence-leak-nsa-contractor-extract

Is this just paranoia or did the NSA actually some how order the destruction and rebuilding of sidewalks? Seems too bizarre.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

TEAM NVIDIA:
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Kurt_Cobain posted:

Along those lines

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/01/edward-snowden-intelligence-leak-nsa-contractor-extract

Is this just paranoia or did the NSA actually some how order the destruction and rebuilding of sidewalks? Seems too bizarre.

I doubt they ripped up a sidewalk in front of both the Guardian's office and the Guardian's editor's house in the middle of the night just to be a nuisance. It's more likely they installed a tap to see what unencrypted data they could siphon. When a writer emails a draft to the editor, the NSA gets advanced notice of the story. Email a new leak to the Guardian and they'll raid the office to keep the story from being published (this has already happened several times under both the Bush and Obama administrations). And of course better intelligence would let them prepare their responses better so they're not caught in transparent lies quite so frequently.

Surveilling members of the media to undermine and suppress their stories is of course wildly police state-y, but we knew that was going on even before Snowden started leaking. Handling anything remotely interesting while the data is unencrypted is asking for trouble at this point. Hopefully they realize that.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Feb 2, 2014

DOCTOR ZIMBARDO
May 8, 2006
Yea they can definitely do stuff like that. I've seen line workers interrupted by black SUVs and poo poo here in DC when they presumably cut the wrong line or whatever.

Elotana
Dec 12, 2003

and i'm putting it all on the goddamn expense account
There's an FOIA now showing details from the DEA's end on how they handle "parallel construction" tips.

https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/dea-policies-on-parallel-construction-6434/

Gist of it is they absolutely never reveal the source of the information in open court. They will drop the evidence and rewrite the indictments before they consent to anything more than an in camera review, and only that as a last resort; case managers are encouraged to shape evidence chains so neither field-level agents nor the prosecution are even aware of the ultimate source of the tip so as to avoid those pesky Brady obligations. (Paging Kalman.) There is also something called a Taint Review Team (huaehuaehuae) which acts as a backstop in case these processes fail.




Bonus points for including the world's most obvious redaction:



Having skimmed the case, let me reverse engineer the redacted part for you: "All of the caveats we listed above, however, don't matter if you can catch the perp in the act. Then you don't have to reveal poo poo. Therefore, when handling parallel construction cases, timing your bust is everything." The sheer number of B7E redactions on the traffic stop slide decks tends to confirm the anonymous testimony in the original Reuters story about how parallel construction actually works in practice the vast majority of the time. A local K9 unit gets told "search this car at this time" and nothing else, and no one involved with the case will ever be the wiser unless someone fucks up.

Elotana fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Feb 4, 2014

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!
You know the fact that a federal law enforcement agency is using a terrorism program to engage in a massive conspiracy to commit systemic perjury really isn't getting enough traction in the media, I've never heard it mentioned on television, it's all talk about metadata.

Mc Do Well
Aug 2, 2008

by FactsAreUseless
Reminder that Chris Christie came out swinging hard for the NSA when the leaks started - he was a Federal Prosecutor who could have been working with parallel construction.

Now he is in trouble because emails provide an objective record for investigators. Karma.

Elotana
Dec 12, 2003

and i'm putting it all on the goddamn expense account

Tezzor posted:

You know the fact that a federal law enforcement agency is using a terrorism program to engage in a massive conspiracy to commit systemic perjury really isn't getting enough traction in the media, I've never heard it mentioned on television, it's all talk about metadata.
It's actually not systemic perjury, the slides are very explicit about the fact that you do not let it get to the point where someone is testifying as to the source of the tips. Like I said, it's all about managing the chain of evidence so that it stays just beyond the reach of the defendant, which usually means keeping it in the upper reaches of LE (who don't normally testify) and out of the field agents (who do testify) and the prosecution (subject to Brady).

hepatizon
Oct 27, 2010

Elotana posted:

It's actually not systemic perjury, the slides are very explicit about the fact that you do not let it get to the point where someone is testifying as to the source of the tips. Like I said, it's all about managing the chain of evidence so that it stays just beyond the reach of the defendant, which usually means keeping it in the upper reaches of LE (who don't normally testify) and out of the field agents (who do testify) and the prosecution (subject to Brady).

Doesn't it become perjury when LE claims it was just a random traffic stop? There's a chain of orders from NSA to whoever's driving the squad car. Someone has to lie.

Aurubin
Mar 17, 2011

At the HPSCI panel today Rogers kept trying to bait FBI director Comey to try and go along with the "accomplices" angle for journalists publishing the Snowden stories, but Comey kept ducking that one. Good? I guess? Sad that a moral victory today is that we're not criminalizing journalism. Rogers was pissed when Clapper didn't agree with him that Snowden handed everything to the Commies, Red Menace, I mean Russians. Also, BENGHAZI!

The House Judiciary panel was more fun, at least because there was the mix of people yelling about the IRS in between people asking sensible questions, Goodlatte included. Standouts were Lofgren basically telling James Cole to gently caress himself by cutting him off and moving to the next panelist because he was obfuscating, and Nadler commenting on the very rare occurrence of him being, "In total agreement with the gentleman from Wisconsin." (Sensenbrenner). Also Cole totally ducked the question about what happens if handing the metadata to a third party fails.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

TEAM NVIDIA:
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hepatizon posted:

Doesn't it become perjury when LE claims it was just a random traffic stop? There's a chain of orders from NSA to whoever's driving the squad car. Someone has to lie.

Not necessarily. The NSA tells the LEO high-ups to find a reason to stop car X at time Y tomorrow. The high-ups pass along the tip and the street-level guys do the bust. They say they had a tip, which is technically correct, and they don't know enough to technically commit perjury since every random officer isn't going to know the complete pedigree of every bit of information they use, and probably doesn't even know they're coordinating with the NSA.

The problem is that police officers get an extremely heavy presumption of good-faith behavior, and even when they're not operating in good faith if the case is strong enough there will be enough "good" bits to put you away regardless. There's plenty of other "tips" that are also crooked police informants, other people they've blackmailed into plea deals, overblown, or just crooked cops making poo poo up.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Feb 4, 2014

hepatizon
Oct 27, 2010

Paul MaudDib posted:

Not necessarily. The NSA tells the LEO high-ups to find a reason to stop car X at time Y tomorrow. The high-ups pass along the tip and the street-level guys do the bust. They say they had a tip, which is technically correct, and they don't know enough to technically commit perjury since every random officer isn't going to know the complete pedigree of every bit of information they use, and probably doesn't even know they're coordinating with the NSA.

The problem is that police officers get an extremely heavy presumption of good-faith behavior, and even when they're not operating in good faith if the case is strong enough there will be enough "good" bits to put you away regardless. There's plenty of other "tips" that are also crooked police informants, other suspects they're blackmailing into plea deals, overblown, or just crooked cops making poo poo up.

Claiming it's an anonymous tip would be perjury, right? Do random officers get so much benefit of the doubt that "I don't know where the tip came from" is enough to stop the defense attorney? Assuming the defense attorney has heard of parallel construction.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

TEAM NVIDIA:
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hepatizon posted:

Claiming it's an anonymous tip would be perjury, right? Do random officers get so much benefit of the doubt that "I don't know where the tip came from" is enough to stop the defense attorney? Assuming the defense attorney has heard of parallel construction.

It would be perjury if the street cop knew that the tip originated with the NSA. However, it would not be perjury for a high-up to lie that it was an anonymous/properly sourced tip to the agent, and allow the agent to testify as such to the court, since the high-up is not under oath and the street cop did not know his information was wrong.

It also wouldn't be perjury for the street cop to testify that he didn't know the origin of the tip as long as he had no knowledge that a specific tip originated from the NSA (even if the street cop generally knew the department was coordinating with the NSA).

Furthermore, most Federal court cases don't get to the point where they're digging hard into evidence, they throw down a charge of 70 years in Federal prison and force you to plea-bargain. If you decide to actually have a trial, (a) you'll lose anyway, since they are the ones who decide that poo poo like parallel construction is legal, and (b) you'll go away for twice as long. Plea bargains are such a cute way around the Constitutional right to a trial and all the evidentiary standards.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Feb 4, 2014

Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010

hepatizon posted:

Claiming it's an anonymous tip would be perjury, right? Do random officers get so much benefit of the doubt that "I don't know where the tip came from" is enough to stop the defense attorney? Assuming the defense attorney has heard of parallel construction.

Doesn't matter if the tip doesn't come up in court. If the officer sees or hears something illegal, then it doesn't really matter why the officer was there, unless discrimination or other illegal conduct is being alleged. Since anonymous tips are a regular feature of police work, defense attorneys had little reason to dig into the source of the tip. Besides, the point of parallel construction is to come up with alternate reasons for the police action so that the tip is never even mentioned in court at all.

hepatizon
Oct 27, 2010

Paul MaudDib posted:

It would be perjury if the street cop knew that the tip originated with the NSA. However, it would not be perjury for a high-up to lie that it was an anonymous/properly sourced tip to the agent, and allow the agent to testify as such to the court, since the high-up is not under oath and the street cop did not know his information was wrong.
Isn't that hearsay, though?

Paul MaudDib posted:

Furthermore, most Federal court cases don't get to the point where they're digging hard into evidence, they throw down a charge of 70 years in Federal prison and force you to plea-bargain. If you decide to fight it, (a) you'll lose and (b) you'll go away for twice as long.
I'm hoping that, since parallel construction has come to light, maybe you're not guaranteed to lose anymore? Ugh :smith:

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

TEAM NVIDIA:
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hepatizon posted:

Isn't that hearsay, though?

It would be heresay, but it would also establish good faith on the part of the officer, and officers performing illegal but good-faith searches are an exception to the exclusionary rule.

An illegal tip leading to a good-faith but illegal search basically retreads US v. Leon.

quote:

US v Leon (1984)

Facts of the Case


The exclusionary rule requires that evidence illegally seized must be excluded from criminal trials. Leon was the target of police surveillance based on an anonymous informant's tip. The police applied to a judge for a search warrant of Leon's home based on the evidence from their surveillance. A judge issued the warrant and the police recovered large quantities of illegal drugs. Leon was indicted for violating federal drug laws. A judge concluded that the affadavit for the search warrant was insufficient; it did not establish the probable cause necessary to issue the warrant. Thus, the evidence obtained under the warrant could not be introduced at Leon's trial.

Question

Is there a "good faith" exception to the exclusionary rule?

Conclusion
Decision: 6 votes for United States, 3 vote(s) against
Legal provision: Exclusionary Rule (admissibility of evidence allegedly in violation of the Fourth Amendment)

Yes, there is such an exception. The justices held that evidence seized on the basis of a mistakenly issued search warrant could be introduced at trial. The exclusionary rule, argued the majority, is not a right but a remedy justified by its ability to deter illegal police conduct. In Leon, the costs of the exclusionary rule outweighed the benefits. The exclusionary rule is costly to society: Guilty defendants go unpunished and people lose respect for the law. The benefits of the exclusionary rule are uncertain: The rule cannot deter police in a case like Leon, where they act in good faith on a warrant issued by a judge.
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1980-1989/1983/1983_82_1771

There's also another case that basically establishes that it doesn't matter why the cop stopped you if he catches you in the act. This is what I mean with my expanded part (a) above - the Feds are the ones who set the rules, and they've ruled parallel construction, illegal-but-good-faith searches, and so on to all be things that don't count as "fruit of the poisoned tree".

The exceptions are already there, it's just a matter of tweaking and social-engineering the police work of the case so that everyone is acting in good faith and protected and no one is committing perjury, and the defendant has no idea of the shadiness or any recourse to avoid prison even if they did. That is, in a nutshell, what this DEA presentation is all about - the ways to game the legal framework protecting defendants.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Feb 4, 2014

Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010
Regarding tips, a legal rationale cited by the DEA documents is Scher v. US, a 1938 case in which prohibition agents received a tip that someone was breaking the alcohol ban, put that person under surveillance, and eventually caught the person with whiskey. Scher presumably fought the validity of the surveillance by attacking the tip that started it all off, but the courts held that the source of the tip is "unimportant" if the agent finds illegal activity when they investigate it. Of course, whether a case that old is still valid precedent is something I'm uncertain of, and everything around that statement is redacted so who knows what conduct they're using it to justify?

That's not really what parallel construction is, though. It's not about giving the tip in court but hiding the source, it's about using the tip to construct a parallel chain of evidence that doesn't start from the tip, so that you never even have to mention the tip in court. Basically, the tip is so classified that it can't be revealed in court, so officers are supposed to use the information in the tip to help them find evidence that can be used in court, and then cover up the existence of the tip and pretend they found the evidence all on their own. Ideally, information is structured so that the people carrying out the arrest, as well as the prosecutor, aren't aware of the tip at all.

For example, let's say the cops suspect Person A of something, but they can't find any proof. So they send the DEA a request to dig up some surveillance, and the DEA sends them a secret tip saying to, say, check Person A's bank accounts or watch Location B for his drug deals. So the cops check Person A's bank accounts, put Location B under surveillance, find the suspicious transactions and meetups, and build a whole case based on that. But when it comes to court, they won't mention the tip - they'll pretend they came up with the idea to check the bank accounts all on their own, and they'll say that their surveillance on Location B was just part of routine surveillance on likely places they thought the suspect might be using for dirty business.

Now, the documents posted above aren't really that useful, because they cover all the DEA's of handling sensitive information, of which parallel reconstruction is just one - and more importantly, almost everything in the document that specifically pertains to parallel reconstruction in the document is redacted or missing entirely. For example, page 166 of the document is titled "Use Parallel Reconstruction" and labeled "Page 252", but page 167 is labeled "Page 262" and page 168 is labeled "Page 267" - in other words, thirteen pages were straight-up deleted from the document that they released. Most of the unredacted info in the document is dedicated to their other, legal methods of hiding classified evidence from the defendant, like having secret meetings with the judge and giving them the info without informing the defense that the evidence even exists. The little amount of unredacted information about parallel reconstruction mostly amounts to teaching officers how to carry out legal word-wrangling for concealing the evidence in the event that you manage to get called on it - for example, arguing that the initial tip isn't relevant or material evidence and therefore is not required to be disclosed to the defense.

Lastly, there might be something even worse hidden away in the DEA's methods. Pages 154/155 stick out to me (all emphasis original, redaction blocks replaced with "[REDACTED]"):

quote:

4 methods Americans will accept (so far...) to combine IC & LEA collection efforts and trial of the defendant
This is a place-holder slide to announce the remainder of the class: we will discuss four methods that allow the combination of IC and LEA collection efforts in a given criminal case WITHOUT NECESSARILY EXPOSING IC SOURCES AND METHODS.

1. [REDACTED]
2. Use CIPA.
3. Use FISA.
4. Use Parallel Construction.

So for parallel construction, they redacted pretty much everything besides the name and halfhearted legal justifications...but what the hell is that first thing that's so classified they won't even reveal the name? Maybe I could find some hints if I scroll up a hundred-odd pages and read through again, but they're being pretty thorough about redacting any hint that they might be hiding things without the knowledge of a judge.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

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Main Paineframe posted:

So for parallel construction, they redacted pretty much everything besides the name and halfhearted legal justifications...but what the hell is that first thing that's so classified they won't even reveal the name? Maybe I could find some hints if I scroll up a hundred-odd pages and read through again, but they're being pretty thorough about redacting any hint that they might be hiding things without the knowledge of a judge.

That's the bit Elotana was looking at earlier. Muckrock ran a separate article on that.

quote:

The only details on this mysteriously legal tactic come from a handful of Supreme Court case references. Legal justifications include Whren v. United States, which established that the actual aim of officers in making a traffic stop is of no consequence so long as they have independent justification to pull a motorist over.
...
The oldest reference is to a 1938 Supreme Court decision, Scher v. United States.
...
Beyond these case law references, there are no details of how this "primary methodology" of shielding classified programs integrates into DEA investigations.
https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2014/feb/04/method-so-acceptable-dea-cant-even-tell-you-its-na/

I think Elotana's guess is a pretty solid one here. There's two court cases, one that says "it doesn't matter what the actual aim of a traffic stop is if they can justify the stop on its own merits", the other says "it doesn't matter where the tip comes from if investigating it uncovers actual wrongdoing".

The logical synthesis of those two ideas is "catch them red handed and you can justify it as a traffic stop, the court doesn't need to know about the tip at all". That's the method there - catch someone with a trunk full of weed and the court isn't going to ask questions, and you're legally protected from answering questions even if they do. Americans are OK with it because no one likes criminals anyway and the public doesn't doubt you're a criminal when you're caught red handed.

Elotana posted:

Having skimmed the case, let me reverse engineer the redacted part for you: "All of the caveats we listed above, however, don't matter if you can catch the perp in the act. Then you don't have to reveal poo poo. Therefore, when handling parallel construction cases, timing your bust is everything." The sheer number of B7E redactions on the traffic stop slide decks tends to confirm the anonymous testimony in the original Reuters story about how parallel construction actually works in practice the vast majority of the time. A local K9 unit gets told "search this car at this time" and nothing else, and no one involved with the case will ever be the wiser unless someone fucks up.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Feb 4, 2014

Elotana
Dec 12, 2003

and i'm putting it all on the goddamn expense account
Yes, exactly. Under the current rules of evidence plus the Scher precedent, if the cop pulls someone over and they're caught red-handed, the prosecution will object to any inquiry as to the source of the tip as irrelevant and it will be sustained and that will be the end of it. On the off chance something goes wrong, this is all happening in limine, which gives the Taint Review Team time to come in and initiate a CIPA hearing to limit the damage and try their damndest to keep it out of open court.

Elotana fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Feb 4, 2014

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!
I doubt they're actually catching most of these guys "red-handed," though. I bet if you're smuggling drugs to the extent that the DEA is using NSA files to track and bust you you're not just leaving baggies of weed sitting in open view in the backseat of your car. There's got to be no real probable cause in most of these cases aside from the anonymous tip, which means somebody is lying to the court. About why they pulled the suspect over, about smelling or seeing drugs in open sight, about why the K9 unit was called, about the suspect getting belligerent, whatever.

Elotana
Dec 12, 2003

and i'm putting it all on the goddamn expense account
Sure, but those kinds of low-level reasonable suspicion / probable cause lies go on all the time. A K9 unit itself is pretty much a legal fiction. The point is they're not lying about the tips; parallel construction is about putting them in a position where it's unnecessary to testify about them in the first place.

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/war-anonymous-british-spies-attacked-hackers-snowden-docs-show-n21361

quote:

A secret British spy unit created to mount cyber attacks on Britain’s enemies has waged war on the hacktivists of Anonymous and LulzSec, according to documents taken from the National Security Agency by Edward Snowden and obtained by NBC News.

The blunt instrument the spy unit used to target hackers, however, also interrupted the web communications of political dissidents who did not engage in any illegal hacking. It may also have shut down websites with no connection to Anonymous.

According to the documents, a division of Government Communications Headquarters Communications (GCHQ), the British counterpart of the NSA, shut down communications among Anonymous hacktivists by launching a “denial of service” (DDOS) attack – the same technique hackers use to take down bank, retail and government websites – making the British government the first Western government known to have conducted such an attack.

The documents, from a PowerPoint presentation prepared for a 2012 NSA conference called SIGDEV, show that the unit known as the Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group, or JTRIG, boasted of using the DDOS attack – which it dubbed Rolling Thunder -- and other techniques to scare away 80 percent of the users of Anonymous internet chat rooms.

The existence of JTRIG has never been previously disclosed publicly.

The documents also show that JTRIG infiltrated chat rooms known as IRCs and identified individual hackers who had taken confidential information from websites. In one case JTRIG helped send a hacktivist to prison for stealing data from PayPal, and in another it helped identify hacktivists who attacked government websites.

In connection with this report, NBC is publishing documents that Edward Snowden took from the NSA before fleeing the U.S. The documents are being published with minimal redactions.

Intelligence sources familiar with the operation say that the British directed the DDOS attack against IRC chat rooms where they believed criminal hackers were concentrated. Other intelligence sources also noted that in 2011, authorities were alarmed by a rash of attacks on government and corporate websites and were scrambling for means to respond.

“While there must of course be limitations,” said Michael Leiter, the former head of the U.S. government’s National Counterterrorism Center and now an NBC News analyst, “law enforcement and intelligence officials must be able to pursue individuals who are going far beyond speech and into the realm of breaking the law: defacing and stealing private property that happens to be online.”

“No one should be targeted for speech or thoughts, but there is no reason law enforcement officials should unilaterally declare law breakers safe in the online environment,” said Leiter.

But critics charge the British government with overkill, noting that many of the individuals targeted were teenagers, and that the agency’s assault on communications among hacktivists means the agency infringed the free speech of people never charged with any crime.

“Targeting Anonymous and hacktivists amounts to targeting citizens for expressing their political beliefs,” said Gabriella Coleman, an anthropology professor at McGill University and author of an upcoming book about Anonymous. “Some have rallied around the name to engage in digital civil disobedience, but nothing remotely resembling terrorism. The majority of those embrace the idea primarily for ordinary political expression.” Coleman estimated that the number of “Anons” engaged in illegal activity was in the dozens, out of a community of thousands.


In addition, according to cyber experts, a DDOS attack against the servers hosting Anonymous chat rooms would also have shut down any other websites hosted by the same servers, and any other servers operated by the same Internet Service Provider (ISP), whether or not they had any connection to Anonymous. It is not known whether any of the servers attacked also hosted other websites, or whether other servers were operated by the same ISPs.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Elotana posted:

Sure, but those kinds of low-level reasonable suspicion / probable cause lies go on all the time. A K9 unit itself is pretty much a legal fiction. The point is they're not lying about the tips; parallel construction is about putting them in a position where it's unnecessary to testify about them in the first place.

Seriously, it can be as simple as "I pulled him over because he appeared to have a non-functioning taillight. I found that I was mistaken, and was ready to give him a sincere apology and let him on his way when I smelled what I believed at the time to be the odor of marijuana." Considering I personally know several people who were harassed by a city police department (all fake "busted taillight" stops), this is neither implausible nor something that's easy to challenge. Even when a cop "smells pot" and finds anything but pot, it's ridiculously difficult to challenge the "I smelled something, searched, and found stuff" construction.

"I smell marijuana" may be the most frightening thing an innocent person can hear - they can detain you for a K9 search, tear your car apart, and even leave it wholly or partially inoperable, and in many places you have literally zero recourse.

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!
Well, the fact that it's common doesn't really dispute that it's perjury, does it?

In other news:

Here is the UK law that criminalizes DDOS attacks: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/48/section/36

Unindicted felon James Clapper spent yesterday accusing journalists who report on the Snowden story of being accomplices. Why is this man still employed?

Tezzor fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Feb 5, 2014

amuayse
Jul 20, 2013

by exmarx
Anyone here know anything about Mossad, MSS, or GRU's take on the whole Snowden affair?

Mc Do Well
Aug 2, 2008

by FactsAreUseless
'We'll take care of your Snowden problem if you free Jonathan Pollard'

crusader_complex
Jun 4, 2012

SedanChair posted:

It would be really funny if the U of Liverpool mailed Snowden a master's degree. It's not like he hasn't earned it.

It is a pretty impressive thesis on computer security.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE
A while back we had the drone thread where certain people argued vehemently that the ARGUS-IS drone-based tracking systems (or similar) would be utterly impractical for use in urban areas. Turns out, not so.

quote:

DAYTON, Ohio — Shooter and victim were just a pair of pixels, dark specks on a gray streetscape. Hair color, bullet wounds, even the weapon were not visible in the series of pictures taken from an airplane flying two miles above.

But what the images revealed — to a degree impossible just a few years ago — was location, mapped over time. Second by second, they showed a gang assembling, blocking off access points, sending the shooter to meet his target and taking flight after the body hit the pavement. When the report reached police, it included a picture of the blue stucco building into which the killer ultimately retreated, at last beyond the view of the powerful camera overhead.


“I’ve witnessed 34 of these,” said Ross McNutt, the genial president of Persistent Surveillance Systems, which collected the images of the killing in Ciudad Juárez, Mexico, from a specially outfitted Cessna. “It’s like opening up a murder mystery in the middle, and you need to figure out what happened before and after.”

As Americans have grown increasingly comfortable with traditional surveillance cameras, a new, far more powerful generation is being quietly deployed that can track every vehicle and person across an area the size of a small city, for several hours at a time. Although these cameras can’t read license plates or see faces, they provide such a wealth of data that police, businesses and even private individuals can use them to help identify people and track their movements.

Already, the cameras have been flown above major public events such as the Ohio political rally where Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) named Sarah Palin as his running mate in 2008, McNutt said. They’ve been flown above Baltimore; Philadelphia; Compton, Calif.; and Dayton in demonstrations for police. They’ve also been used for traffic impact studies, for security at NASCAR races and at the request of a Mexican politician, who commissioned the flights over Ciudad Juárez.


Defense contractors are developing similar technology for the military, but its potential for civilian use is raising novel civil liberties concerns. In Dayton, where Persistent Surveillance Systems is based, city officials balked last year when police considered paying for 200 hours of flights, in part because of privacy complaints.

“There are an infinite number of surveillance technologies that would help solve crimes . . . but there are reasons that we don’t do those things, or shouldn’t be doing those things,” said Joel Pruce, a University of Dayton postdoctoral fellow in human rights who opposed the plan. “You know where there’s a lot less crime? There’s a lot less crime in China.”

The Supreme Court generally has given wide latitude to police using aerial surveillance as long as the photography captures images visible to the naked eye.

McNutt, a retired Air Force officer who once helped design a similar system for the skies above Fallujah, a battleground city in Iraq, hopes to win over officials in Dayton and elsewhere by convincing them that cameras mounted on fixed-wing aircraft can provide far more useful intelligence than police helicopters do, for less money.

A single camera mounted atop the Washington Monument, McNutt boasts, could deter crime all around the Mall. He said regular flights over the most dangerous parts of Washington — combined with publicity about how much police could see — would make a significant dent in the number of burglaries, robberies and murders. His 192-megapixel cameras would spot as many as 50 crimes per six-hour flight, he estimated, providing police with a continuous stream of images covering more than a third of the city.

“We watch 25 square miles, so you see lots of crimes,” he said. “And by the way, after people commit crimes, they drive like idiots.”

What McNutt is trying to sell is not merely the latest techno-wizardry for police. He envisions such steep drops in crime that they will bring substantial side effects, including rising property values, better schools, increased development and, eventually, lower incarceration rates as the reality of long-term overhead surveillance deters those tempted to commit crimes.

Dayton Police Chief Richard Biehl, a supporter of McNutt’s efforts, has proposed inviting the public to visit the operations center to get a glimpse of the technology in action.

“I want them to be worried that we’re watching,” Biehl said. “I want them to be worried that they never know when we’re overhead.”

...
The military’s most advanced experimental research lab is developing a system that uses hundreds of cellphone cameras to watch 36-square-mile areas. McNutt offers his system — which uses 12 commercially available Canon cameras mounted in an array — as an effective alternative that’s cheap enough for local police departments to afford. He typically charges between $1,500 and $2,000 per hour for his services, including flight time, operation of the command center and the time that analysts spend assisting investigations.

Dayton police were enticed by McNutt’s offer to fly 200 hours over the city for a home-town discount price of $120,000. The city, with about 140,000 people, saw its police force dwindle from more than 400 officers to about 350 in recent years, and there is little hope of reinforcements.

“We’re not going to get those officers back,” Biehl, the police chief, said. “We have had to use technology as force multipliers.”

Still, the proposed contract, coming during Dayton’s campaign season and amid a wave of revelations about National Security Agency surveillance, sparked resistance. Biehl is looking for a chance to revive the matter. But the new mayor, Nan Whaley, has reservations, both because of the cost and the potential loss of privacy.

“Since 2001, we haven’t had really healthy conversations about personal liberty. It’s starting to bloom about a decade too late,” Whaley said. “I think the conversation needs to continue.”

To that end, the mayor has another idea: She’s encouraging the businesses that own Dayton’s tallest buildings to mount rooftop surveillance cameras capable of continuously monitoring the downtown and nearby neighborhoods. Whaley hopes the businesses would provide the video feeds to the police.

McNutt, it turns out, has cameras for those situations, too, capable of spotting individual people from seven miles away.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...3ba3_story.html

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

hepatizon
Oct 27, 2010

Paul MaudDib posted:

A while back we had the drone thread where certain people argued vehemently that the ARGUS-IS drone-based tracking systems (or similar) would be utterly impractical for use in urban areas. Turns out, not so.

Surprise, engineers are, as a rule, full of poo poo about feasibility.

Sucrose
Dec 9, 2009

Am I the only one not particularly bothered by this leak? I'm concerned about mass surveillance, I'm a lot less surprised that government agencies (of any government) would be monitoring and disrupting the activities of hacker groups that are targeting the government. Obviously this could be taken too far, and if it lead to surveillance and disruption of groups that aren't doing anything illegal, that would be a big loving problem, but as it is I don't see what the big deal is. I would expect the government to be doing something like this in response to LolzSec, the entire point of the group was to hack into government websites.

Sucrose fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Feb 7, 2014

King of Hamas
Nov 25, 2013

by XyloJW
parallel construction is nothing more than lying in court. Don't get it confused, don't try to overthink it, it is nothing more than police recieving tips from unlawful spying and lying to cover up their bullshit.

Tezzor
Jul 29, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!

Sucrose posted:

Am I the only one not particularly bothered by this leak? I'm concerned about mass surveillance, I'm a lot less surprised that government agencies (of any government) would be monitoring and disrupting the activities of hacker groups that are targeting the government. Obviously this could be taken too far, and if it lead to surveillance and disruption of groups that aren't doing anything illegal, that would be a big loving problem, but as it is I don't see what the big deal is. I would expect the government to be doing something like this in response to LolzSec, the entire point of the group was to hack into government websites.

How about the fact that they were committing criminal actions against their own citizens?

konna
Aug 1, 2005

hepatizon posted:

Surprise, engineers are, as a rule, full of poo poo about feasibility.

As a rule, you are a loving idiot. While we're at it maybe we should gang up on philosophers as well and see if it helps.

hepatizon
Oct 27, 2010

konna posted:

As a rule, you are a loving idiot. While we're at it maybe we should gang up on philosophers as well and see if it helps.

Simmer down hoss, I'm an engineer. And philosophers are more full of poo poo than anyone so I don't really get your point.

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Sucrose
Dec 9, 2009

Tezzor posted:

How about the fact that they were committing criminal actions against their own citizens?

Like what?

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