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Maarak posted:New production design video: http://www.hbo.com/video/video.html?autoplay=true&vid=1365802 Just in case anyone needs it, here is a youtube mirror some uploaded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31B-2T3boFI Also Only Cat at 1:26.
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Feb 5, 2014 01:05
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Reading random stuff on ASOIAF wiki, I came across Tyrek Lannister, which took me to Theories. I guess GRR has said Tyrek will show up again, and some people have speculated that Varys has him hidden away since apparently he's getting closer and closer to being the heir to Casterly Rock ??? Also, Gerrick Lannister sounds like a pretty awesome guy.
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Feb 5, 2014 01:38
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I'm not sure I would label GRRM a woman hating rapist or whatever but I do wish he would tone it down and move on. I get that as part of his deconstruction of the genre he wanted to highlight how terrible medieval/fantasy worlds truly are in some respects (like life for women in this instance) and there are a handful of scenes where he accomplishes that goal very well, but he just comes back to the subject over and over again, often graphically, and that's the point where I'm ready to criticize him. He continually brings it up, often apropos of nothing, long after its inclusion could add anything to the narrative or subtext. I think that's where people start to perceive it as something GRRM enjoys and scenes like Cersei's walk start taking on a much more negative light.
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Feb 5, 2014 01:46
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In It For The Tank posted:Also Only Cat at 1:26. Yesss, YEEESS! This is probably my most anticipated scene this season.
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Feb 5, 2014 01:58
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In It For The Tank posted:Also Only Cat at 1:26. I wonder if that's the specific scene where Jorah gets the boot at 0:52.
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Feb 5, 2014 02:08
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colonel_korn posted:I wonder if that's the specific scene where Jorah gets the boot at 0:52. That's what it looked like to me. Good that that is still in. I'm still wondering how that will work though.... since "Arstan" never happened, and Barristan was not on the Small Council in Season 1. Any ideas?
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Feb 5, 2014 03:46
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Yureina posted:That's what it looked like to me. Good that that is still in. I'm still wondering how that will work though.... since "Arstan" never happened, and Barristan was not on the Small Council in Season 1. Any ideas? I'm pretty sure the showrunners are supplanting Barristan scoping out Dany to see if she's crazy with Barristan scoping out Jorah to see if he's treacherous. When Jorah oversteps his boundaries sometime this season, Barristan will expose him. Dany will be pissed at Barristan for not telling her sooner, but she'll be more pissed with Jorah. Story continues as normal. As for how Barristan finds out since he was conspicuously absent from the Small Council meetings in Season 1, it will probably be dismissed with an stupid offhand comment like "THE KINGSGUARD MUST KNOW ALL THE KING'S AFFAIRS" or "THERE ARE NO SECRETS IN THE RED KEEP."
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Feb 5, 2014 03:59
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Anyone know why Gemma Jackson left as production designer?
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Feb 5, 2014 04:05
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In It For The Tank posted:As for how Barristan finds out since he was conspicuously absent from the Small Council meetings in Season 1, it will probably be dismissed with an stupid offhand comment like "THE KINGSGUARD MUST KNOW ALL THE KING'S AFFAIRS" or "THERE ARE NO SECRETS IN THE RED KEEP."
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Feb 5, 2014 04:19
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In It For The Tank posted:
The show already made a point of explaining why Barristan wasn't on small council meetings, something about Robert not trusting him, and also showing Jorah's relief finding that out. It would be a bit silly to go back on that now.
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Feb 5, 2014 04:24
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3Romeo posted:Anyone know why Gemma Jackson left as production designer? I would like to know the answer to this, as well.
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Feb 5, 2014 04:34
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colonel_korn posted:Seems to me that the easiest would just be to say that Varys told him. This would be ideal, but Varys' role in sending Barristan to Dany hasn't been mentioned yet in the show. Barristan apparently just tracks Dany down on his own. They may be delaying that particular reveal as well, but it might also have been cut. The Slippery Nipple posted:The show already made a point of explaining why Barristan wasn't on small council meetings, something about Robert not trusting him, and also showing Jorah's relief finding that out. It would be a bit silly to go back on that now. I agree.
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Feb 5, 2014 04:35
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3Romeo posted:Anyone know why Gemma Jackson left as production designer? Yeah, that seriously bummed me out when I was watching the video. She did such a great job. Hopefully the new person can do just as well.
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Feb 5, 2014 04:37
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GonSmithe posted:Yeah, that seriously bummed me out when I was watching the video. She did such a great job. Hopefully the new person can do just as well. The work she put into the show made the show. I mean, some of it I disagreed with (King's Landing, for instance, seemed a little more Mediterranean than I imagined) but there's a lot of it that I can't help seeing now whenever I re-read the books. And that's always the mark of great design. I'm sure Deborah Riley will do a fine job, and I'm not terribly concerned about it, but it just seems strange for someone of such talent and importance to leave a show that's at the peak of its fame. She doesn't have anything new lined up on IMDB, so I'm guessing it's probably a personal (read: family) reason. edit: The knee-jerk goon answer is to say that she knows everything sucks after Storm of Swords but of course that's no reason for a production designer to quit what's surely a high-paying, interesting, and pleasantly imaginative job. Health reasons or work-related drama reasons, those are usually publicized. So I'm kind of stuck just guessing. But whatever. She built the foundation and did an outstanding job, and I'm sure her replacement will do just as well. Asbury fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 04:45
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What we've seen of Oberyn Martell looks pretty awesome, so I think we're in safe hands.
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Feb 5, 2014 05:23
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Omnomnomnivore posted:and the fact that a lot of people seem to enjoy it at face value, means Martin kind of botched the execution. Nah I'm sorry but that means nothing. Just because there's a lot of dunderheads that can't see things if they aren't clearly spelled out for them doesn't mean all media has to be clearly spelled out. That's one of the reasons I like these books so much; you have to actually read between the lines and question the narrator and do some actual thinking. Marijuana posted:I need to re-read ADWD, but are the Volantene elections supposed to parallel the Roman elections e.g. sanctioned bribery and vote buying? My recollection is hazy because I was tearing through that novel and it's been over two years. It's implied, the only concrete thing as far as I remember is whores wandering around offering free sex to voters in exchange for their vote.
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Feb 5, 2014 06:11
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Marijuana posted:I posted that from my phone, so I have no clue how lovely it looks at a larger resolution So are you going to complain about all the murder and violence in the series next? Soylent Pudding posted:On the subject of suffering I actually very much enjoy that Danny's stop in Meereen is one that continually invites the reader to experience bij. The slaver's bay campaign was classic white savior fantasy with the white leader bringing in a well trained army with advanced weaponry (dragons) to impose an obviously superior moral system and way of life on the locals. Most fantasy novels would have stopped with the capture of Meereen and let the reader imagine that the imperial project went off without a hitch. Instead we get two books of Danny stuck in a quagmire where locals are revolting against her regime, neighbors are acting proactively to counter this new threat to their sovereignty, and Danny feels morally obligated to stay because she's seen that if she leaves the power vacuum will be filled with warlordism and brutality (see: the butcher king of Astapor). Basically everything from Astapor to Meereen was the Iraq war of 2003 and everything since was the occupation. While perhaps not intentional I do find the slow pacing and misery of the chapters to be inviting the reader to feel the frustrations of the occupation. That's actually a pretty good way to look at it, especially in the context of framing it as the reader getting what they want in a way they won't enjoy.
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Feb 5, 2014 09:03
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CapnAndy posted:No. Marrying for love happened, but it was extremely rare and generally viewed as shameful/a type of madness/bizarre/something along those lines. That is actually not true, and a misunderstanding warped by the fact that most of our sources on bygone eras are from privileged classes (where arranged marriages were certainly a thing). Commoners married for love or romance all the time, at least in Medieval Europe - arranged marriages would have been pointless for most of them anyway, since they were so unlikely to rise above their station in life.
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Feb 5, 2014 09:14
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In It For The Tank posted:This would be ideal, but Varys' role in sending Barristan to Dany hasn't been mentioned yet in the show. Barristan apparently just tracks Dany down on his own. They may be delaying that particular reveal as well, but it might also have been cut. That's probably how it will happen. Then again... if Barristan reveals that Varys sent him, then that's something of a giveaway of what Varys is really up to. That might be an interesting early revelation though for what comes later with Griff and killing Kevan/Pycelle and all that. On that note... what about Kevan? Has he just been cut entirely? I was a little disappointed that he wasn't at least on the post-RW council meeting where he sees Joffrey's nature (him asking for Robb's head to give to Sansa), which he later comments on when Cersei asks him to become hand. Instead Kevan's line in that scene went to Varys. So is he gone?
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Feb 5, 2014 09:50
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Haha, I come back to the thread and see over 100 new posts. I thought some new video was released and generated all these posts - and it was, but the majority of the posts were on the feminist talk... wow. Interesting.Anonymous Zebra posted:I was more focusing on how GRRM uses the threat of rape as a source of dramatic tension for his female POV characters a whole lot (it's most of Sansa's story) whereas his male characters get to experience a whole lot different sources of danger. Yes, rape was and is a prevalent threat to women, but it's not the only threat they need to experience, but GRRM really includes a lot of it in his books. I think that this is what I was trying to say. GRRM systematically puts both his male characters at the threat of death, dismemberment and so on, but his female characters at the threat of sexual humiliation and rape. Another way to look at it is to look what's missing. One thing that absolutely occurs to me is male-on-male rape. If GRRM's stated goal is to deconstruct fantasies, shouldn't he include that in addition to male-on-female rape? Take this study. After reviewing multiple other studies and reports, it concludes that wartime male-on-male rape is almost as common as male-on-female rape. This is a trend that has been noted throughout all recent conflicts, so I think one could assume that also happened in the Middle Ages to some extent. Where is the male rape in these intendedly deconstructive books? Where are the jibes, the jokes, the constant threat of male-on-male rape? To some extent, that's one of the things the show did well by me: in Season 2, there was a suggestion that Theon could be potentially raped. But it was something done by the show, not by the books. Now, my attitude is that nobody is perfect. I think that I agree with the posters who said that, to some extent, this could be the effect of how long these books have been in the writing - what, twenty years now? Right now, it's much easier to find information about the rates of wartime male-on-male rapes, for example... The charitable conclusion would be that GRRM is still stuck deconstructing something from the 1990s. The not so charitable one would be that he doesn't notice his own pattern. Maarak posted:New production design video: http://www.hbo.com/video/video.html?autoplay=true&vid=1365802 The more I look at Dany's dresses, the more I think that a Game of Thrones fashion line would be a success for HBO. I'd love the bare-belly-button dress for a summer party.
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Feb 5, 2014 10:20
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meristem posted:This is a trend that has been noted throughout all recent conflicts, so I think one could assume that also happened in the Middle Ages to some extent. Where is the male rape in these intendedly deconstructive books? Where are the jibes, the jokes, the constant threat of male-on-male rape? In Victarions fleet. I can't think of any other examples though.
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Feb 5, 2014 11:17
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I'd forgotten about that. Raped repeatedly and then sacrificed iirrc 
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Feb 5, 2014 11:31
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The Slippery Nipple posted:The show already made a point of explaining why Barristan wasn't on small council meetings, something about Robert not trusting him, and also showing Jorah's relief finding that out. It would be a bit silly to go back on that now. I was thinking Barristan was feeding Jorah a bullshit story so that Jorah wouldn't be suspicious. But that just might be me trying too hard to reconcile the differences between the book and show. Guess we'll find out this season.
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Feb 5, 2014 11:41
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Blind Melon posted:In Victarions fleet. I can't think of any other examples though. Touche. :-) I forgot about that. But let's take Jaime... I keep returning to Jaime, because it's an easy comparison to make - Martin himself invited the comparison by making him and Cersei twins (and we started from Cersei, after all). So, let's take Jaime. Jaime's transformative journey involves him being attacked twice: once in Robb's camp, and the other time by Vargo Hoat. In neither case, the attack on him involves the possibility of rape. The Karstarks want to kill him, while Hoat chops off his hand. Moreover, in the second case, we are even experiencing the events from Jaime's point of view, and he isn't even thinking of the possibility that he could be raped (although, to be fair, he isn't considering the possibility that he would be mutilated, either). He's only considering the idea of rape in relation to Brienne. More: everyone is only considering the idea of rape in relation to Brienne. Now, the reality is that prisoner rape is a particularly frequent version of male-on-male wartime rape. It would be very, very true to reality, and to the characters, for the Brave Companions to rape Jaime, or to threaten it. So - we have the question: why is the - again, purportedly deconstructive of myths - narrative constructed so that Jaime is mutilated, and not raped, and there is not even the slightest mention of the possibility that he could be? And that's a place where I don't really have any answer that would be charitable towards Martin, so I welcome your thoughts. By the way, I read this statistics: [url posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_rape#Rape_of_Men[/url]]Similarly, a 2009 study by Lara Stemple noted that sexual torture and rape were experienced by 76% of male political prisoners in El Salvador during the Salvadoran Civil War, as well as by 80% of male concentration camp inmates in Sarajevo during the Bosnian War.
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Feb 5, 2014 14:52
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Um, because Jamie's conception of self is entirely bound up in his martial ability? This is a really basic thing. Martin doesn't just pick bad things to happen to characters out of a bucket, they are always thematically important. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 15:30
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It is heavily implied in the kingsmoot chapter that Euron raped Aeron when they were young.
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Feb 5, 2014 15:40
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Blind Melon posted:In Victarions fleet. I can't think of any other examples though. Satin was a whore. It's never said explicitly, but it's probably a fair assumption that he was used by men. He's also only a kid at the time he joins the Watch, so he's been a prostitute for awhile, and most likely not by choice. Whoresbane Umber got his name from strangling a prostitute who cheated him in some way, and everyone seems fine with that, but nobody is willing to talk about the fact that it was probably a man he strangled. I think at one point Littlefinger admitted that he sold young boys to some lord who had "peculiar tastes." I'm pretty sure it was show only, but at the battle of the Blackwater Sandor threatens to rape any man who doesn't come back with blood on his sword as a means of motivating the men.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:02
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MrBims posted:It is heavily implied in the kingsmoot chapter that Euron raped Aeron when they were young. And also implied with Joffrey and Tommen but what the hell, is someone campaigning for more rape in the books, now? Interesting take on things.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:03
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Narmi posted:Satin was a whore. It's never said explicitly, but it's probably a fair assumption that he was used by men. He's also only a kid at the time he joins the Watch, so he's been a prostitute for awhile, and most likely not by choice. There was Pypar at the night's watch as well. He was sent there for refusing to give a lord a cheeky handjob or whatever.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:07
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Narmi posted:I think at one point Littlefinger admitted that he sold young boys to some lord who had "peculiar tastes." That was a show invention in a conversation between Varys and Littlefinger.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:26
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geeves posted:That was a show invention in a conversation between Varys and Littlefinger. That particular scene was added to the show, but in the books Littlefinger does mention that he bought off Lyn Corbray by giving him "gold and boys".
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Feb 5, 2014 16:29
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the jizz taxi posted:That is actually not true, and a misunderstanding warped by the fact that most of our sources on bygone eras are from privileged classes (where arranged marriages were certainly a thing). Commoners married for love or romance all the time, at least in Medieval Europe - arranged marriages would have been pointless for most of them anyway, since they were so unlikely to rise above their station in life.
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Feb 5, 2014 17:24
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It would be more likely to be 'arranged' by angry fathers a month or two after the county/parish faire/show. We still have them in this area of England, only with more music and beer, and less harvesting and sheep (there are always rumours of sheep molestation). Kids of certain age were married off to keep them out of trouble. If a young scrote of a landed family got a workers daughter pregnant the girl got married off and the pair would get paid off with a home and job. To add to the male rape chat, it does seem a bit odd that it isn't the #1 threat to every man. Isn't forced penetration one of the greatest phobias of straight men? George wasn't a choirboy by any chance? Collateral fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 17:34
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Lovechop posted:And also implied with Joffrey and Tommen but what the hell, is someone campaigning for more rape in the books, now? Interesting take on things. What? Where was this implied?
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Feb 5, 2014 18:35
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Nicol Bolas posted:What? Where was this implied? Nowhere? Joff bullied Tommen but he's still too young to be the sadistic rapist type (yet). He probably just pushed him around like he does everyone else.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:38
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Nicol Bolas posted:What? Where was this implied? There's some implications that Joffrey does some pretty nasty bullying of Tommen but rape doesn't seem in his nature. He makes noises about raping Sansa but I'm not sure he's even interested in following through - he just isn't that sort of monster.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:39
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Joff always struck me as fairly asexual, but he dies young enough to possibly just not have discovered girls yet.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:44
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That's what I thought--Joff seems very much made in (the worst possible version of) Robert's image, and sexually assaulting Tommen seems wildly out of character. Even doing so to Myrcella seems out of character, honestly; he can come by prostitutes at his whim and has had Sansa to torment if he wants to sexually assault a noblewoman.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:46
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It's based off of this exchange, although I'm not sure it implies rape as strongly as others do. I think he could have been referring to Joffrey being cruel to Tommen, or others, or animals in front of him.quote:"The world is full of horrors, Tommen. You can fight them, or laugh at them, or look without seeing . . . go away inside." But while we're pointing out places where male rape is used as a threat, Tyrion threatens Cersei that Tommen will be raped if Alyaya is raped. I think male rape has been mentioned enough in the books to not be considered completely one sided. It's not as prominent as female rape, but GRRM seems to be aware that it happens.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:46
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Eh, I don't see it at all. Joffrey was rude as all hell to Tommen every single time we saw them together. That doesn't imply sibling rape.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:59
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