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At the recommendation of a friend, I binged through Season 1 and then skipped to 3. It's a pretty stark difference in tone. I liked the stuff with Kathy Bates' character but otherwise I think they forgot to put the "horror story" in this season. I thought it was hilarious that Fiona's version of hell was Green Acres.
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Feb 7, 2014 03:49
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Why did your friend tell you to skip what's generally considered the best season?
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Feb 7, 2014 03:51
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haveblue posted:Why did your friend tell you to skip what's generally considered the best season? Maybe she secretly hates me. 
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Feb 7, 2014 04:01
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asciidic posted:At the recommendation of a friend, I binged through Season 1 and then skipped to 3. It's a pretty stark difference in tone. I liked the stuff with Kathy Bates' character but otherwise I think they forgot to put the "horror story" in this season. I thought it was hilarious that Fiona's version of hell was Green Acres. If you want anything remotely scary, season 3 is not the one you watch. Go to season 2 and slap your friend for being a dumbo who told you not to watch the best season.
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Feb 7, 2014 04:01
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Doltos posted:I hate to say it, and I mean this in the nicest non-bigotist way possible, but gay drama queens loving adore this show. Adore it. Love it more than anything. I'm facebook friends with a bunch of East Village guys that watch this show together and post during the episodes. They loving squeal with delight over everything we roll our eyes at. You may have said that you mean it in the "nicest non-super-bigoted wonderful way possible", but you still come off as super bigoted. Despite the media attention the gay rights movement has gotten over the last few years, the LGBT community is still fairly small, and not enough to dramatically increase the ratings on any show. What we have here is a case of confirmation bias. You happen to know some guys who live in the East Village who you view as "drama queens", and they love the season, so (apparently) point proven! Basically, you're a bit of a bigoted rear end in a top hat who happens to be cool enough to be "friends" with some gay guys who loved this season, and you now equate the season's crappiness with these people who you are "friends" with. Doltos posted:Some people, including that one moron earlier in this thread, just loving love camp regardless of how well it's done. The more ridiculous and off base it is the more they'll declare it to be genius. This is a much better way to express the point you were trying to make. The season was lovely. Don't try and blame it on the gays.
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Feb 7, 2014 05:30
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Jesus Christ, I am still annoyed that this season is being considered CAMP. I suppose it can be considered that whether accidentally or deliberately, but it seems more like a footnote that was written just in case, you know, You actually started to have a thought in your head about it.
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Feb 7, 2014 05:37
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There seems to be a trend with media that goes 2 > 1 > 3. The first time is experimental, an idea that may or may not work, so the creators take extra care into trying to create something special. You don't have as much to work with, so you care more about delving into individual ideas and visceral reactions without making them too flashy, which is important to allow the audience to know exactly what you're going for anyway. The second time has a certain validation, the training wheels are off, and you can really take things a step further. The mythos has been explained so fans know what to expect and are essentially getting more. You probably have more to work with in terms of budget and creativity, so ideas that were too reserved for the first one are more possible now. If the first time was more contained, the second time can be more expansive. By the third time, you've gone full blown mainstream. It's no longer the greatest thing you aren't aware of, people are aware and many will support it no matter what. Here's where things get tricky, because you essentially have a much bigger scope to work with, maybe you can afford better actors or guest stars and place them prominently. The creators can get a little cocky at this point, knowing they have an idea that works, and are more able to step back and allow others to put their hands on it, even if it means delving into the cliche and uninspired. And in the case of Coven, you might fall into the trap of trying to blow it up as big as you can, which comes crashing down. Plot and story are especially dangerous at this stage, because they often take a backseat to the flash that draws you in. And flashy things don't necessarily have to make sense, they just have to get you to pay attention. So in other words, the longer you go on, the bigger you get, the more you can afford to get away from what it made special in the first place. Off the top of my head, the Dead Space series of video games seems to follow this format. Plus, it typically seems that a horror franchise in particular will go from emotionally and mentally jarring, to downright goofy and, yes, campy. Not just AHS, but SAW, Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, etc.
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Feb 7, 2014 05:57
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asciidic posted:Maybe she secretly hates me. Best for last, so you can see why so many of us are crestfallen. Go see season 2 when you can.
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Feb 7, 2014 06:06
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Can anyone give any insight into why Cordelia's infertility was such a big deal? Was she just "suppressing her powers" again?
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Feb 7, 2014 06:50
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rare bird posted:Can anyone give any insight into why Cordelia's infertility was such a big deal? Was she just "suppressing her powers" again? Not really. That plot just halted once it had served its purpose of having Cordelia go talk to Laveau and was never brought up again.
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Feb 7, 2014 07:00
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Is it okay to admit that I'm done with this show well before the finale? My little viewing group made it up to episode 9 and welp, gently caress this season. We're being deprived of the creepy psychosexual awfulness of the first season and the gorgeous visions of Francis Conroy as the angel of Death from season 2. I have no lovely theme song to turn into a ringtone (Dominique!) and after yet another endless girl fight that ends with sassy sashaying out of a room we are of a like mind: what the gently caress happened? Oh sure, there's probably The Goriest Episode That Will Totally Change Your Mind coming up any time now. Maybe there's the No Really, We Stopped Being Vicious Drama Queens And Did Crazy Witchy poo poo that Freaked Y'all The gently caress Out in just a few minutes. But I feel we haven't been rewarded enough with any of that this season to continue to plod along. Someone up above said this was the Camp season and well, I don't see it. I don't fault any of the performances and there was a giant brewing pot of plot elements that should have turned into *something* but lordy when are they gonna get around to it? Asylum was a bloody mess of crap showing up each week until we got to the point where we'd just look at each other and laugh at how the latest reveal drove things forward. Did it shamelessly leave us with loads of floating monsters in the woods and goofy aliens and nazi craziness? Sure, sometimes Evil just likes to party. The visuals were upsetting and I'm glad we watched that season together. Ah well, we might slog through to the end, but it feels like a chore to watch this show in stark contrast to how much we looked forward to each week for the first two seasons. I hope that their fourth season shows a complete reversal of this pattern and they manage to concoct some unsettling imagery with loads of excellent performances from their stable of regulars.
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Feb 7, 2014 07:10
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CuddleChunks posted:Someone up above said this was the Camp season and well, I don't see it. I don't fault any of the performances and there was a giant brewing pot of plot elements that should have turned into *something* but lordy when are they gonna get around to it? Asylum was a bloody mess of crap showing up each week until we got to the point where we'd just look at each other and laugh at how the latest reveal drove things forward. Did it shamelessly leave us with loads of floating monsters in the woods and goofy aliens and nazi craziness? Sure, sometimes Evil just likes to party. The visuals were upsetting and I'm glad we watched that season together. Hah, you pretty much already realized what type of season this is and have some correct instincts either direction you decide to go. Its not going to get any better, and is more likely to frustrate than pleasantly surprise. Though I'd actually recommend slogging through the rest at a faster speed (I mean literally play it at 1.1 to 1.5x faster) if you have the ability. Thats just to get through with it though. If you're like me finishing it at 9/13 episodes is worth it for the satisfaction of being able to say to yourself you've completed it and know how good/bad it was truly without ever needing to ever check it back out again unless you absolutely find yourself wanting to do so. Im pretty new to this thread too, so it took me a few posts to realize that "camp" wasn't really being used in the traditional sense, its used in this thread as sort of a shorthand for this other type of tone/cheesiness/melodrama etc that there's no succinct word to describe(as far as I know). rare bird posted:Can anyone give any insight into why Cordelia's infertility was such a big deal? Was she just "suppressing her powers" again? Well actually its all about.... poo poo, I completely forgot about that and suspect the writers might have too. You could probably handwave in some explanation like she subconsciously knew her husband was dangerous, or maybe he sterilized her as part of his mission*, or probably most likely (but just as void of textual support as the others) she could not give birth while still being hampered by the existence of an old supreme when she should have taken her crown by then. *man how much would that plot have ruled if that was the templar's purpose for infiltrating the coven instead of just trying to kill everyone. After a struggle with the inherent hypocrisies and violence of their institution (and often organized religion itself) the templars come to see forced sterilization as the "humane" approach to completing their mission. We get to explore that instead and--even better--by the end they have succeeded... a storyline that would have actually utilized notions set up about the potential extinction of witches in an era that's moving beyond them. And it could explore the "death" of a culture, something pretty easily intertwined with that other plot involving a bunch of people who were literally robbed from their homes, forced into a new lifestyle and struggled to keep their rituals and traditions alive, often through oral history alone. (wow, sorry for the ramble and run on sentences there. the concept just kept expanding)
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Feb 7, 2014 07:35
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rare bird posted:Can anyone give any insight into why Cordelia's infertility was such a big deal? Was she just "suppressing her powers" again? I don't think it had much of a point beyond establishing Hank as a character in Cordelia's life before sending him off to kill witches. If that, anyway.
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Feb 7, 2014 07:50
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xeria posted:I don't think it had much of a point beyond establishing Hank as a character in Cordelia's life before sending him off to kill witches. If that, anyway.
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Feb 7, 2014 08:35
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rare bird posted:Can anyone give any insight into why Cordelia's infertility was such a big deal? Was she just "suppressing her powers" again? You remember that?? Writers forgot that 2 episodes later, man! Cocaine is a hell of a drug and all that. EDIT: At least this show is a RARE example of a show that can reboot from a bad season, without the baggage that makes it impossible on other shows.
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Feb 7, 2014 10:28
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I still want to cry when I think about the abortion that was Coven. It's distressing to me over a week later.
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Feb 7, 2014 10:31
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^^^ You and me both, kiddo. My parents ate it up with a goddamn spoon. I think I will have to put them in a home soon. rare bird posted:Can anyone give any insight into why Cordelia's infertility was such a big deal? Was she just "suppressing her powers" again? Zoe had a convenient poison vagina. Cordelia had a convenient poison womb. EvilTobaccoExec brought up a better potential theme than any AHS writers did. The toxic reproductive systems as "powers" could have easily tied in with the witches' auto-extinction outpacing anything the Templars could do to exterminate them. Instead we just got a half-assed and then swiftly backed away from meditation on feminism through the eyes of Ryan Murphy. "American Horror Story: Bitches Be Trippin'" The whole season just stank of his shallow understanding of human experience, especially diaphanous when it is an experience outside his own.
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Feb 7, 2014 18:03
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http://www.vulture.com/2014/01/american-horror-story-cinematographer-michael-goi-interview.html Fun article about how one of the things we can agree the show always nails was accomplished.
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Feb 7, 2014 20:47
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Hey who was Constance's fourth kid? Tate, Adelaide, Attic Guy, ???
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Feb 8, 2014 03:50
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AGirlWonder posted:Hey who was Constance's fourth kid? Tate, Adelaide, Attic Guy, ??? Shhhh... You weren't supposed to be smart enough to count that high. They cut the storyline and didn't bother adding any sort of explanation. I think originally it was meant to have been an adult albino character but man or woman I do not recall.
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Feb 8, 2014 04:29
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I may be misremembering but I thought Cordelia made reference to Fiona not being able to conceive without magic when she has having her fertility issues?
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Feb 8, 2014 04:39
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AGirlWonder posted:Hey who was Constance's fourth kid? Tate, Adelaide, Attic Guy, ??? Yeah, they committed on her having four but then couldn't fit them all in so they just forgot about the fourth child.
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Feb 8, 2014 04:39
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I think the next season would be awesome if it played into the melting pot of America in the American Horror Story. Have it take place in New York in the 1800s or whatever, lots of immigrants coming in. But they bring their ghosts with them. Irish Banshees, Japanese Samurai ghosts, eastern European vampires, all terrorizing people through New York skyscrapers. Then the murders or whatever get blamed on the immigrants and plays into the "real" fear of immigration, blah blah blah.
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Feb 8, 2014 06:26
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AGirlWonder posted:Hey who was Constance's fourth kid? Tate, Adelaide, Attic Guy, ??? It was supposed to be an albino guy who appeared in early promos. I think I read in an interview that there were plans to tell his story in another season, but I guess they've just forgotten about him by now.
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Feb 8, 2014 11:41
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Tennis Ball posted:I think the next season would be awesome if it played into the melting pot of America in the American Horror Story. It's going to be shot in New Mexico. It will probably be a mess and misuse a really great setting just like Coven.
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Feb 8, 2014 14:56
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ThatPazuzu posted:Yeah, they committed on her having four but then couldn't fit them all in so they just forgot about the fourth child. Oh, so they've always had problems with the writing. Gross.
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Feb 9, 2014 03:33
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ThatPazuzu posted:If you want anything remotely scary, season 3 is not the one you watch. Go to season 2 and slap your friend for being a dumbo who told you not to watch the best season. It turns out she genuinely thinks season 3 was the best, and that season 2 was too weird and confusing. I don't know what else she likes to watch but I'm betting it's all terrible. I'm almost done with season 2 now. I thought 3 was pretty dull and I didn't understand why people liked this show so much, but I also didn't get all the vitriol in this thread until I got through a few episodes of 2. That's a pretty disappointing drop in quality. I got way too excited when I saw Ian McShane  
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Feb 9, 2014 23:42
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AGirlWonder posted:Oh, so they've always had problems with the writing. Gross. It is a Ryan Murphy show so, yes, "slapdash writing" should be the base-level expectation.
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Feb 10, 2014 04:08
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Somebody reposted this on my tumblr dashboard, Sarah Paulson being as unimpressed with Vine as we all were with this season: http://clapbacks.tumblr.com/post/76065929415/this-vine-gave-me-life
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Feb 10, 2014 06:32
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Nihonniboku posted:You may have said that you mean it in the "nicest non-super-bigoted wonderful way possible", but you still come off as super bigoted. Despite the media attention the gay rights movement has gotten over the last few years, the LGBT community is still fairly small, and not enough to dramatically increase the ratings on any show. Man you are one uptight rear end in a top hat if you came up with this in response to what I was saying. I thought I packed enough qualifiers into that statement to make any social justice warrior back down a bit but guess I was wrong.
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Feb 10, 2014 17:28
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I don't think there's any polite, universally inoffensive way to say "the only people who like this show are annoying, stupid, gay, or all of the above". Maybe stick to attacking the content and not the audience?
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Feb 10, 2014 17:40
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Doltos posted:Man you are one uptight rear end in a top hat if you came up with this in response to what I was saying. I thought I packed enough qualifiers into that statement to make any social justice warrior back down a bit but guess I was wrong. Doltos posted:I hate to say it, and I mean this in the nicest non-bigotist way possible, but gay drama queens loving adore this show. Adore it. Love it more than anything. I'm facebook friends with a bunch of East Village guys that watch this show together and post during the episodes. They loving squeal with delight over everything we roll our eyes at. Yeah, bruh, you might be human garbage. Why season 3 of AHS has to mean you lashing out at some phantom audience who ruined (  ) your show, I dunno. Maybe you really do have a problem with these people you're making into personal boogeymen?
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Feb 10, 2014 17:48
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Ah, I see. Well I attacked the content multiple times over and replied to a guy asking who was boosting the ratings. If you look at this show, look at the media outlets covering how good it is, and look at their target demographics and still think I'm a bigoted racist homophobic rear end in a top hat then God drat son you guys need to open your eyes a bit. Bold specific statements, ignore how they were explained below them. The phantom audience is quite real, Ryan Murphy obviously targets them, they do give many views in addition to the audience they gained from the first two seasons, and you all need to chill down on trying to pile on anyone who says otherwise. If you want a complete view of what I thought about this show hit that question mark by my name and look at the myriad of posts that attacked this show for its content and production with that one post explaining their target demographics. If you can't do that and you can only cherry pick quotes that make you look like some benevolent non-offensive overlord then that's fine.
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Feb 10, 2014 17:56
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Doltos posted:Ah, I see. Well I attacked the content multiple times over and replied to a guy asking who was boosting the ratings. If you look at this show, look at the media outlets covering how good it is, and look at their target demographics and still think I'm a bigoted racist homophobic rear end in a top hat then God drat son you guys need to open your eyes a bit. Nah dude, you've definitely been acting like a truculent rear end in a top hat in this thread for a while now to a few different people who had positive opinions on this season. Bolding something for emphasis isn't the same as cherry picking quotes without context. I'm also failing to see how the context of your post helps the bolded stuff at all, it still comes off as "my gay friends raved about this season and have bad taste, therefore all gay people loved this season and have bad taste." Pointing out that you did that doesn't make Nihonniboku a social justice warrior, either, sorry. Your gay friends in the East Village are not a representative sample of the gay community, so when you say that "gay drama queens loving adore this show," and use that as your example, it comes off as you trying to make the point that all gay people think the same or like the same stuff. The only thing I can see that you used to qualify it was basically "I'm not a homophobe, but..." and there's pretty much no way to follow that up with something and make it sound non-homophobic. It would be like someone saying "I'm not racist, but black people loving love Dave Chapelle. I'm facebook friends with some black guys and..." It's just a ridiculous overgeneralization based on your apparently limited experience that says nothing about the actual show, ignores huge swaths of the show's audience, and makes you look like a dick. You've made valid points about the bad writing and other lovely aspects of the show, but you can't say poo poo like that and not expect to get called on it. As I've mentioned before, Tom & Lorenzo, who are probably the most prominent gay bloggers that do reviews of this show, have been utterly trashing this season, while tons of straight media outlets have been fawning over it. Liking this season has nothing to do with sexuality. Ryan Murphy is loving up the show. Not the gays. QuickbreathFinisher fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Feb 10, 2014 |
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Feb 10, 2014 21:21
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As a queer person who hates this season, I agree with Doltos. How many of you that are getting indignant are LGBT? Because otherwise, you can stop getting mad on other's behalf.
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Feb 10, 2014 21:30
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Thanks for reminding me about Tom & Lorenzo's blog, which I just adore. Also, Escape Artist is the voice of reason.
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Feb 10, 2014 21:37
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escape artist posted:As a queer person who hates this season, I agree with Doltos. How many of you that are getting indignant are LGBT? Because otherwise, you can stop getting mad on other's behalf. Yeah, I'm gay. e: Doltos posted:Well I don't think it matters either way for either of you being gay or not. It doesn't really matter, but it was brought up so I thought I'd mention it before my post got dismissed as "getting mad on other people's behalf." QuickbreathFinisher fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Feb 10, 2014 |
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Feb 10, 2014 21:44
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QuickbreathFinisher posted:Yeah, I'm gay. Well I don't think it matters either way for either of you being gay or not. When there was an argument before about this season the pro-AHS I love camp guy immediately started throwing out "if you don't like this season then you have a problem with gay people" arguments. I mean people who are in favor of this season are also associating the LGBT community to it without prompting. I don't see what's wrong with targeting a show towards certain demographics and having those demographics respond favorably to it. My friends that I described are indeed friends of mine, they know how they act when they watch the show, and they know why it's appealing to people like them. Ryan Murphy is in touch with that community, as evident by Glee, and he knows how to sell his show to them. If I come off as harsh when I described it in the post then I apologize, I didn't mean to act like the LGBT community is damning AHS. What I'm saying is AHS producers know what they're doing. They already have a foundation of viewers from the first two seasons and they broadened their spectrum to teenagers, 20 something girls, and the LGBT community from the success of Glee. It's kind of silly to argue otherwise since which show wouldn't want more viewers if they had a direct pipeline due to Ryan Murphy? If you want to argue confirmation bias, fine, it applies both ways. If you scoff at how I described my friends then you really aren't that active in the community. The way they act isn't necessarily bad, and I have no issue at all with the LGBT community. It's just that Ryan Murphy's way of soliciting his show to them is dreadful and camp for the sake of camp made the show this season tedious to watch. That's where I'm coming from. Doltos fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Feb 10, 2014 |
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Feb 10, 2014 21:53
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QuickbreathFinisher posted:Yeah, I'm gay. Alright, well I've this same discussion with lots of my friends. They self identity as "queens", so I don't even consider that to be a slur, although I know many disagree. But it is very much how Doltos says -- a lot of gay men are looking past this season's faults because it appeals to them on the most shallow of levels. It's all Balenciaga and Sobranie and no substance. Personally, I don't think this season did anything for LGBT people. Yeah, a few esoteric references were thrown in, but they tried to salvage this piece of poo poo show by tacking it on as a metaphor for LGBT rights. You know what, Alan Ball and Ryan Murphy and company? You're not doing the gay community any favors by comparing them to vampires and witches and various other humanoid monsters. Then I bring up how this season was supposed to be about female empowerment, and the common response is "well this is what women are like! Get a bunch of them together and they fight like cats." Once again, most of them coming from my gay friends. This show has a disproportionately gay audience-- that's not the problem. It's the fact that this season has been put on a pedestal like some sort of beacon for gays, when it has always been, thematically, a progressive minded show anyway. I do see where Doltos is coming from. He's not saying it in the nicest manner, but he's not a monster for recognizing it either.
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Feb 10, 2014 21:54
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You put that way better than I could have. I'm pretty blunt with how I talk and it makes me come off as something I'm not. I only used Drama Queens because that's literally how my friends talk about themselves. Everyone, regardless of sexual orientation, has something that appeals to the most shallow nature of entertainment. I love many things that people deem incredibly stupid and cringy. AHS is definitely a guilty pleasure for them that they forgive because camp really does strike chords within their community. I mean to put it another way, theater has always been a safehaven in a country that historically has been very harsh towards the LGBT community. Camp lets people act however they wish to act so it makes sense that people who have to hide in the closet due to a variety of reasons would like it. I just didn't like it for this show because it's really hard to have scary programming done well on cable television. The over influx of camp to turn the show into a Glee clone kind of sucks for me.
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Feb 10, 2014 22:00
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