Happy Noodle Boy posted:

Watch god slowly dwindle to 0...

...as they collect fees on every. single. transaction

quote:

[–]tulipfutures 0 points 53 minutes ago*

You're right, and that's why BTC has any niche use at all. There are unbanked people in the world who could potentially use bitcoin (or something like it with more security) in the future.

The number of people who "hate big banks" and would ever say "banksters" is tiny. Microscopic. A spec of the financial industry. Those people should use bitcoin if it suits their needs, but it's awfully stupid for those same people to claim that bitcoin will take over the modern banking industry when it's a very small fraction of the population that agrees with their anti-government, anti-regulation, anti-trust values

A great glaring example of this is both chargebacks and personal info. If you ask a bitcoiner they will frequently claim that chargebacks are a big issue for merchants, but they simply aren't. The benefits of using bitcoin don't currently outweight the benefits of using a credit card with consumer protection features. Bitcoiners seem to think that 50% of retail customers chargeback products just for fun. In reality it's much less than 1%. Likewise, bitcoin owners seem to think that the miniscule benefit of not sharing personal info with merchants is so valuable that it outweighs ALL consumer protection features, and it's better to use a currency that could be irreversibly stolen than potentially have Gamestop know my address. I don't think I need to tell you that isn't a fair trade-off for consumers.

[–]Romanizer 1 point 38 minutes ago

The number of people who "hate big banks" and would ever say "banksters" is tiny

Agree, that number is way too small if you look at the huge incompetency big banks have demonstrated in the last years, throwing away everyones money.

Financial products based on the Blockchain/Bitcoin protocol would be usable everywhere in the world from everyone, virtually free of charge. No chance for banks to survive in that sector in the long run.

Also, paying 3% fee on a credit card purchase when you have a profit margin of 6% (that is huge in retail sector where I come from) means your profits are halved when your customers use credit cards and the data gets stolen pretty often.

[–]tulipfutures -1 points 33 minutes ago

Agree, that number is way too small if you look at the huge incompetency big banks have demonstrated in the last years, throwing away everyones money.

I'll admit it, you got a laugh out of me here. Yes, perhaps people should be angrier, but they aren't. Why? because there's an enormous amount of trust in the system, and also their personal bank account balances weren't affected by any "bailout fee".

Financial products based on the Blockchain/Bitcoin protocol would be usable everywhere in the world from everyone, virtually free of charge. No chance for banks to survive in that sector in the long run.

What financial products? Bitcoin isn't feasible for loans, mortgage, anything like that. It's a trustless network and you're talking about trust-based financial products.

Yes, a 3% fee is quite high. Did you know the average CC fee is 1.5%? Are you being intentionally disingenuous? Data certainly doesn't get stolen "pretty often", and even when it does losses are insured. Alternatively, using bitcoin, the merchant pays AT LEAST a 1% fee, plus the buyer now has to pay a trans fee, plus both buyer and merchant risk losing all profits altogether from the volatility alone

The very minor "pros" of bitcoins don't outweigh the gigantic "cons" compared to simply using credit cards like people have been doing for decades.

[–]Romanizer 1 point 16 minutes ago

Yes, perhaps people should be angrier, but they aren't. Why?

What have been the alternatives, yet? If there are ways around banks, people are going to use them and drive the banks out.

What financial products?

Equity, stocks, options etc. Products people pay way too much for their bank to handle.

the merchant pays AT LEAST a 1% fee

First 1M is usually free and up to 1% afterwards, as a customer I am paying 1% for my credit card purchases at the moment. Every 0.1% is huge for most merchants for a system that is so easy to implement in comparison to any cc system. Merchants are completely free from any volatility risk, if they choose to pay the 1% after the first million. They could decide to pay no fee at all and keep the Bitcoin though. Volatility will be there for any cryptocurrency/competitor for Bitcoin in the first years of implementation, though. No way around that.

[–]tulipfutures 1 point 11 minutes ago

Bitcoin is not an alternative to a bank, for about a dozen reasons I don't think I need to explain. Least of which is a federally-insured savings account.

Equity, stocks, options etc. Products people pay way too much for their bank to handle.

But not mortgages, credit, loans, bill payments, investment products. I'd rather pay my bank a modest fee for a guaranteed investment than a potentially smaller fee for 100% more risk (with BTC)

as a customer I am paying 1% for my credit card purchases at the moment.

What?

[–]Romanizer 1 point 26 seconds ago

Federally-insured? Thats a good one. We have insured bailins here starting in 2016 and possibly negative interest on savings. I do not really See banks as an alternative to Bitcoin in the long run.

Bills and investment products can be placed on the blockchain, not so sure about loans and mortgage, but if you detach them from the currency it is of course much safer than a Bank, for free.

...! posted:

any god who gets involved with bitcoins should have their godhood revoked

USSMICHELLEBACHMAN posted:

who is that

USSMICHELLEBACHMAN posted:

i'm pretty sure it's manson but i feel like a bitcoiner would not make that comparison

unless ur saying that image...wasn't made by a bitcoin

Cantorsdust posted:

yeah you for real missed the best week ever for bitcoin since bruce was outed as a pedo

fermun posted:

Joementum posted:

this was a very funny post and it's too bad it went over some people's heads

Joementum posted:

they're now furiously trying to prove that MtGox never had anything to do with Magic cards

Robawesome posted:

i'm an idiot

BrettRobb posted:

lol that retailers pay 3% transaction or only run 6% profit margin. stopped reading after that

uncurable mlady posted:

it's hard to be a serial killer if you won't leave mom's basement

Robawesome posted:

Rates of inflation are subjective, based on whatever goods one considers important. They are negative measured against electronics, and very high indexed to fuel or metal or farmland, much higher than your single digit nominal interest return on Bernanke Bucks.

...! posted:

My refinance was just denied by Union Bank because of "my involvement with Bitcoin" - how do we improve Bitcoin's reputation? (self.Bitcoin)

submitted 6 hours ago* by gorillamania

Everything else with the refinance was in order (credit score 730+, appraisal 70% equity).

As part of the refinance process, they asked for my bank statements. I've been doing a lot of bitcoin trading/arbitrage, so there were a lot of very large transactions to/from Coinbase/Bitstamp.

My best memory of the reason, relayed through my mortgage broker over the phone: "With all the recent news with Bitcoin, we've decided to deny your application based on your involvement with Bitcoin".

How can we, as a community, fix this?

[–]hiddenonion 7 points 2 hours ago

"How can we, as a community, fix this?"

Never bank or do business with Union Bank, that's how. If they don't understand how money works then you probably don't want to be in business with them. Besides with you can probably go anywhere.

[–]uvwvj 14 points 6 hours ago

I created a new bank account with another bank to just deal with bitcoins deposits/withdrawls. Its sad it has to come to that.

[–]jhansen858 5 points 4 hours ago

I would let them know that this is unfortunate and that you will be taking your business elsewhere asap.

[–]limaguy2 16 points 6 hours ago

Are they even allowed to do this? That's like saying "You work in an organic supermarket, but we invest in Monsanto so we don't like you"

[–]physalisx 34 points 6 hours ago

You don't have a god-given right for them to give you their money. It's their choice. As far as I'm concerned, they're free to not give you money if they don't like as much as the color of your shirt.

[–]fryg4r 1 point 5 hours ago

I like your zeal and agree with what you say; with one tweak;

"You don't have a god-given right for them to give you our money."

The bank has our money. That's important to remember. Unless the bank actually suffers when they lose money, they don't get the right to claim it's their risk. The Fed effectively prints the money, the bank profits, and whether the loan is repaid or not, you and I are footing the bill via bailouts.

NOT THEIR MONEY.

[–]fryg4r 1 point 28 minutes ago

You seem both reasonable and sure of your opinion. I'd like to learn something, so maybe you can help.

In your worldview, do the bankers [not bank tellers, bank managers, bankers] live by the same rules as someone making middle income?

Do you think that the same rules effectively apply to the owners of the banking system?

How much concentration of wealth do you think is healthy? Do you support a small ruling class?

[–]preferrous 0 points 4 hours ago

"You don't have a god-given right for them to give you their money. It's their choice. As far as I'm concerned, they're free to not give you money if they don't like as much as the color of your shirt."

If opening a bank didn't require a license from the government, I'd agree with you.

[–]limaguy2 -2 points 6 hours ago

Yeah, it's just strange that they turn down a customer (in the end they would make money with your interest payments) and thereby proving the need for a better system, where people can not just be refused basic banking services.

[–]Dr__House -3 points 5 hours ago

And what of a world without banks? Where peer to peer financing has completely entrenched itself in society?

What of the world just before that, when there are few banks struggling to survive against the rise of crypto coins? Surely banks will be begging to take our BTC by then.

[–]gonzobon 2 points 3 hours ago

I would ask them for legal precedent and further reasoning.

You should also ask them if any crimes have been committed with the USD they use.

[–]danster82 2 points 2 hours ago

Its all the more reason bitcoin is important when banks can make such arbitrary decisions.

Their should be maybe already is regulation in place that puts bank inside a certain mandate. Because of the authority granted to the bank by the government it cannot simply engage in antitrust and breach of freetrade.

[–]EcstaticShock -1 points 4 hours ago

I doubt it can be fixed. Bitcoin has the potential to render banking as we know it obsolete. People who thought they would always be in high demand and thought they'd be getting paid top dollar for generations to do what they do see Bitcoin and think of unemployment.

Other industries can be reasoned with, but banks have little recourse but to do their best to prevent any connection or overlap between the coinosphere and the bank establishment.

It's not an issue for the Bitcoin community to fix. It's not our reputation that is causing this. This is a problem with the finance community, whose hostile perception of Bitcoin is creating problems for everyone within their grasp.

[–]imbatcoin -7 points 6 hours ago

What next... denying based on race, creed, and color? Is it legal for them to deny you based on your political beliefs? BTC is a very hot button political topic.

As a community, yes there is an easy way to fix this. So what you're telling me is that you were judged based on how you spend your money. If only there was a way to buy anonymously... oh wait. But seriously, I'm very sorry about what happened to you. In the future when BTC takes off, this will be a non issue at least.

For the time being, you can try to fight it. I'd ask them "what news?". Ask them specifically what reason they denied you. Clearly it's not for financial reasons. The stigma associated with Bitcoin is a shame. I'm sorry that you were a martyr for our cause.

Robawesome posted:

[–]bitbotbitbot 0 points 38 minutes ago

But you can not send your cash, regardless of amount, anywhere on the planet instantly for 10 cents.

PS The inflation numbers that you are using are make believe.

[–]tulipfutures 1 point 37 minutes ago

So I'll ask again, what do you think the U.S. rate of inflation is?

[–]bitbotbitbot 0 points 28 minutes ago

it depends on what you index it against. The bread and milk index is quite high.

[–]tulipfutures 1 point 26 minutes ago

answer the question, jesus christ. I've asked you two times already. Give me a goddamn number that you think the US rate of inflation is.

For fun, tell me what you think my bank account interest rate is too.

[–]bitbotbitbot 1 point 13 minutes ago

Rates of inflation are subjective, based on whatever goods one considers important. They are negative measured against electronics, and very high indexed to fuel or metal or farmland, much higher than your single digit nominal interest return on Bernanke Bucks.

Robawesome posted:

How to convince someone who is truly afraid to become involved in bitcoin? (self.Bitcoin)

submitted 7 minutes ago by BitCoinerInPeril

To keep it short:

I have been day trading in bitcoin ever since it was hovering around 140 during September last year. I've lost around 20,000 dollars but I'm very experienced and I have already made most of it back (and will continue until I profit)

My sister (a very historically irresponsible person, a single mom, probably on drugs) bought a car off me, however we did it off the books and (purposely) never had any record of it. I still hold the car in name. (I had a spare key made and planned to take it back if she ever did something bad to me).

Last year, she needed to borrow four hundred dollars in order to pay her rent. She claimed she'd pay me back in a week. I agreed but said that she needed to let me hold the car (worth around 12000) as collateral. She was fine with it; she agreed with me without any issue.

Five weeks later, I had received no payment. I told her she had two days to pay me or I'd sell the car and keep all the money. She told me I couldn't do that (loving hypocrite) and I told her I can do whatever I want. To prove my point, I sold the car immediately and kept all the money. I wanted to put it towards bitcoin (and I did immediately).

She got a lawyer and is now attempting to seek legal counsel. She is loving nuts and thinks she is entitled to everything. I have already lost a large amount of her money (will gain it back easily) but I offered to give her around two hundred dollars in bitcoin if she called it off (reminder that SHE STILL HASN'T PAID ME BACK).

She told me she wanted the full value of the car + in "real money."

"Real money." I despise this poo poo.

Is it reasonable to expect someone like her to change her mind? What can I say or show her to make her believe in bitcoin?

Robawesome posted:

It is very dangerous for gox to declare bankruptcy. People know who director is and where he is living.

Robawesome posted:

The economy makes it very hard for young men just starting out.

Robawesome posted:

Grateful Mom - Bitcoin changed my son's life for the better (self.Bitcoin)

submitted 13 minutes ago by katiedog

As a mom who saw her son wasting away his life on the couch playing video games, I was very grateful when my son discovered bitcoin. My son has learned the fundamentals of finance, computer security, digital mining and cryptography.

He is now employed and very successful. I believe the interest in bitcoin is what turned it all around for him.

The economy makes it very hard for young men just starting out. I believe bitcoin is one of the most successful social program to get young men to work. No government has ever created a program that trained as many young men as the bitcoin phenomenon. Young men becoming mining or coding means they are not out getting into trouble.

This mom is very grateful. Thank you bitcoin for turning my son into a man.

uncurable mlady posted:

it's hard to be a serial killer if you won't leave mom's basement

Robawesome posted:

Grateful Mom - Bitcoin changed my son's life for the better (self.Bitcoin)

submitted 13 minutes ago by katiedog

As a mom who saw her son wasting away his life on the couch playing video games, I was very grateful when my son discovered bitcoin. My son has learned the fundamentals of finance, computer security, digital mining and cryptography.

He is now employed and very successful. I believe the interest in bitcoin is what turned it all around for him.

The economy makes it very hard for young men just starting out. I believe bitcoin is one of the most successful social program to get young men to work. No government has ever created a program that trained as many young men as the bitcoin phenomenon. Young men becoming mining or coding means they are not out getting into trouble.

This mom is very grateful. Thank you bitcoin for turning my son into a man.

Robawesome posted:

No government has ever created a program that trained as many young men as the bitcoin phenomenon.

Slaughterhouse-Ive posted:

someone on my fb page posted about how they're converting their dogecoin to goxbutts to make money off the selloff

duTrieux. posted:

defriend

Robawesome posted:

Grateful Mom - Bitcoin changed my son's life for the better (self.Bitcoin)

submitted 13 minutes ago by katiedog

As a mom who saw her son wasting away his life on the couch playing video games, I was very grateful when my son discovered bitcoin. My son has learned the fundamentals of finance, computer security, digital mining and cryptography.

He is now employed and very successful. I believe the interest in bitcoin is what turned it all around for him.

The economy makes it very hard for young men just starting out. I believe bitcoin is one of the most successful social program to get young men to work. No government has ever created a program that trained as many young men as the bitcoin phenomenon. Young men becoming mining or coding means they are not out getting into trouble.

This mom is very grateful. Thank you bitcoin for turning my son into a man.

duTrieux. posted:

duTrieux. posted: