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W.T. Fits posted:Aren't Seekers basically another attempt to nerf the power of Squadsight Snipers, since their AI is programmed to make them go after isolated targets? If that's the case, then it was a misguided attempt. The maps are so laughably small that even if your sniper is at the very corner, all you have to do is dash towards the rest of your team one time and you're safe. Seekers are the biggest waste of development time. They're the buggiest pieces of poo poo in the whole game, and they don't even serve any purpose except to waste your time. The only time they're a real threat is when they reveal along with at least two other enemy packs and take your guys out of the fight at a critical moment. I wish they had just poured all of the development energy they wasted on seekers into bug fixes instead, because gently caress this game is still so rough after having been out this long.
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Feb 17, 2014 03:45
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Seekers also make a previous option, Covering Fire, even worse to take. Personal Experience: you can't Covering Fire a Seeker that decides to just shoot you with its plasma weapon instead of strangling you with its tentacles. It got my best support killed in an act of utter bullshit one game. A seeker appeared and took a shot at my support (who was in Overwatch and had Covering Fire) and the Support wasn't able to get either the "appear from stealth" or the "attack" overwatch shot off in retaliation. Then when my turn came around I managed to knock the seeker's health down to 2 and the support had a literally 100% rifle shot to save herself as my "battlefield control" option.... she missed.  The seeker killed her immediately on its next turn and I abandoned that game entirely out of sheer cheating rage.
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Feb 17, 2014 04:11
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Jade Star posted:Battle Scanner You forgot one little thing about Battle Scanner. Everything it does can be done by Gene Mods.
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Feb 17, 2014 04:47
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Che Delilas posted:If that's the case, then it was a misguided attempt. The maps are so laughably small that even if your sniper is at the very corner, all you have to do is dash towards the rest of your team one time and you're safe. Seekers are the biggest waste of development time. They're the buggiest pieces of poo poo in the whole game, and they don't even serve any purpose except to waste your time. The only time they're a real threat is when they reveal along with at least two other enemy packs and take your guys out of the fight at a critical moment. That's pretty much my opinion of Seekers as well. They are literally never a threat to your teams in any way whatsoever unless they reveal themselves alongside a pack of standard enemies that can keep you distracted. If they pop while they're alone, they will never simply wait for your team to move on so they can ambush you at a more opportune time. Instead, they'll just go after whomever is the slightest bit out of place relative to the rest of the team one to two turns after they activate, even if the person they pick is still within Overwatch distance of every other soldier in the squad. I find them to be a pretty big disappointment, honestly. They could have been so much more than they currently are if these flaws had been noticed and tweaked before the expansion launched.
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Feb 17, 2014 04:57
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The Mighty Biscuit posted:You forgot one little thing about Battle Scanner. Everything it does can be done by Gene Mods. Bio-electric skin has that long a range? I've never used it. quote:I find them to be a pretty big disappointment, honestly. They're there to try and cost you a bit of meld because your first instinct is to overwatch everyone so no one triggers anything else, that's about it.
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Feb 17, 2014 04:59
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RBA Starblade posted:Bio-electric skin has that long a range? I've never used it. It's about half as long as a soldier's sight range I think. I've never counted, but it's pretty short.
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Feb 17, 2014 05:07
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You can also manually scan the ground to find places where your soldiers can't move into and then grenade/missile the area. Once Seekers take damage they drop out of cloak. They're prime candidates for explosives because they have no weapon fragments, only corpses.
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Feb 17, 2014 05:34
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MEC Punching and Flamethrower works well too.
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Feb 17, 2014 05:37
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What do each of the classes Mec into anyways? I keep hearing things about how mecs for each class differ, but no one says anything about HOW they are different.
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Feb 17, 2014 05:44
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Zebrin posted:What do each of the classes Mec into anyways? I keep hearing things about how mecs for each class differ, but no one says anything about HOW they are different. They get one extra skill. For heavies the nearest enemy they can see suffers a minus twenty aim penalty, for assaults they resist a third of damage from any attacks made from within 4 squares of them, Snipers get +10 aim and crit if they don't move and supports give 10 defense to nearby allies in cover.
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Feb 17, 2014 05:47
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Zebrin posted:What do each of the classes Mec into anyways? I keep hearing things about how mecs for each class differ, but no one says anything about HOW they are different. Jade will probably cover it soon, but each class gets a different bonus when the get turned into a mec trooper. Going down the list: Heavies inflict a -20 aim penalty on the closest enemy. Snipers get plus +10 aim and crit chance if they don't move before firing. Assaults get something like 30% damage resistance from enemies within 4 tiles. Supports give +10 defense to soldiers in cover around them. The suits themselves don't change based on class.
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Feb 17, 2014 05:49
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Heavy also can't be crit by the enemy it's giving the penalty to.
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Feb 17, 2014 05:55
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Jade Star posted:When playing with Training Roulette on a lot of skills can get dramatically more useful.
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Feb 17, 2014 06:12
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A lot of the abilities seem to belong to the absolute wrong class, like Battle Scanner. That's something a Support or an Assault could get far better use out of than a Sniper. Holo Targeting ends up way better on Sniper or an Assault than a Heavy since they can often times put out way more important shots on enemies or can get multiple shots per turn. Covering Fire doesn't work very well on a Support since it's that or taking +3 speed, but you slap that on a Sniper or a Heavy with some build around overwatch and it saves lives. Not Created Equal and Training Roulette produce a really fun game. Now that I think about it, it really isn't that the skills themselves are bad, it's what skills you have to pick between. There's usually an obviously better option that makes certain choices a no-brainer. Mixing it up with Training Roulette can get some really cool combinations.
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Feb 17, 2014 06:30
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My only gripe with training roulette is my number of supports who got none of the medkit related skills, and now have absolutely nothing going for them. I guess I can Mec them, but drat.
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Feb 17, 2014 07:04
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Danaru posted:My only gripe with training roulette is my number of supports who got none of the medkit related skills, and now have absolutely nothing going for them. I guess I can Mec them, but drat. You're angry about a support with Bullet Swarm? 
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Feb 17, 2014 07:15
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Che Delilas posted:If that's the case, then it was a misguided attempt. The maps are so laughably small that even if your sniper is at the very corner, all you have to do is dash towards the rest of your team one time and you're safe. Seekers are the biggest waste of development time. They're the buggiest pieces of poo poo in the whole game, and they don't even serve any purpose except to waste your time. The only time they're a real threat is when they reveal along with at least two other enemy packs and take your guys out of the fight at a critical moment. This is a classic case of two points being presented in a vacuum and people (mostly the media) hastily throwing it together and giving people the wrong impression. During the development of EW, Solomon and a few other senior developers were well noted as disliking Squadsight snipers. They didn't like how powerful they were and they didn't like how they defeated many aspects of the game. They said they were going to work at making them less desirable. They then, in unrelated news, talked about how they were working on enemies that would shake up traditional squad dispositions and force people to make decisions they hadn't had to make before. When they revealed the Mechtoid, people took this in the spirit it was intended; giving early squads an 'oh poo poo' enemy to gang up on or run the gently caress away from, with the Sectopod receiving buffs to make it do the same thing in the late game. These enemies make it a LOT harder to one-round a lot of aliens and can force you into rolling firefights that most commanders would rather avoid. When the Seeker was revealed and they pointed out that it was intended to go after isolated guys, everyone immediately thought if their Squadsight snipers a billion miles away from everything and declared it a sniper hunter. Except that it's not. Squadsight was taken care of when it got nerfed and Snap Shot got buffed. The argument between the two in this very thread is proof positive that the balancing there worked. In the stereotypical situation where you reveal a Seeker swarm and you have a guy far in back, the problem that is presented to you scraping a Seeker off that person if they theoretically didn't move is the same problem presented to the Seekers - they have to move halfway across the loving map to get to the guy, at which point he has doubtlessly run his rear end off/moved. Let's not forget that there are a solid fistful of ways to become immune to strangulation as well. It is beyond trivial to throw the anti-strangulation accessory onto a Squadsight sniper and call it a day. Nobody thought of the Support on the fringes that throws smoke and suppresses targets as the potential Seeker bait, nobody thought of it as the advanced Assault who just finished Run 'n Gunning a dangerous Thin Man. Nobody ever bothers to mention the way a Seeker effectively acts as an alien Flashbang by inducing 'Catching Breath', which could disable someone important in the middle of a firefight. And yet these are exactly the targets that are hardest to guard against and most panic-inducing when the hit. Seekers are not 'gently caress snipers', they are 'gently caress your rosy tactical plot that you've probably executed a dozen times in this exact situation'. Seekers work fantastic in that they force you to make a very uncomfortable decision when they show up. Do I circle the wagons and wait for the strike, or do I try to continue what I was doing and plan for the worst? They're a beautiful unknown variable. And yes, it's perfectly possible to continue what you were doing while you plan for a Seeker or two to gently caress you. I've continued - and won - plenty of firefights with a Seeker spooking me in the middle of it, because I had a plan to fall back or harden my position for a turn or two while I dealt with the goddamn squid. Smoke bombs work incredible for hardening a position that's under attack when someone gets strangled. Just attack the Seeker and pop the smoke after it's dead to blunt the counterattack you're inviting. Alternately, dropping explosives into the enemy's midst so they suddenly have better things to do than take potshots at you also works great for continuing to work while being under Seeker attack. The problem arises when they start using their guns, because as Lego said, they're altogether too hardy for how hard they can hit. Most of the complaining I see about Seekers come from people who just give up the second they see them. Oh darn, Seeker group, well, might as well just put everyone right next to each other and drop down Overwatch. Well, then you just made the determination that the fighting capability of your squad as it stands right now is more important than the Meld on the map. That is a decision you made. If you are unhappy with that decision, perhaps you should not make that decision anymore. Danaru posted:My only gripe with training roulette is my number of supports who got none of the medkit related skills, and now have absolutely nothing going for them. I guess I can Mec them, but drat. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 17, 2014 08:03
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I actually still really think they should've made Squadsight the default Sniper skill. And maybe change Snapshot to not let them Squadsight after moving.
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Feb 17, 2014 08:03
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Considering that they wound up re-balancing it specifically cause every sniper wound up with the skill, having it be the default makes sense.
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Feb 17, 2014 10:11
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Hey Jade, I've been using the sniper overwatch feature in my latest game, and it's working out great. Did you know that you can swap your soldier's weapons after their turn is over by manually selecting them with the mouse, and then clicking their weapon icon or pressing 'X'? It pretty much obviates the need for quickly clicking the rifle icon after hitting overwatch.
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Feb 17, 2014 15:39
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Green Intern posted:Hey Jade, I've been using the sniper overwatch feature in my latest game, and it's working out great. Did you know that you can swap your soldier's weapons after their turn is over by manually selecting them with the mouse, and then clicking their weapon icon or pressing 'X'? I think Jade mentioned using that glitch earlier in the thread.
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Feb 17, 2014 16:23
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Spiffo posted:I think Jade mentioned using that glitch earlier in the thread. Yeah he is saying that you dont have to switch back to the sniper as you activate overwatch, you can activate overwatch then gently caress around with other soldiers or something and then swap the sniper back to their rifle. No need to be quick about it.
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Feb 17, 2014 16:28
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To Answer your Question "Road closed" means "straße gesperrt" Also, is there some place left on the Roster, or is it filled up?
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Feb 17, 2014 16:33
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Did EW ever fix the fact that sniper overwatch shots take a super long time to fire?
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Feb 17, 2014 16:47
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Nope! Enjoy those agonizing seconds as you wait to see if they hit! edit: followed up by enough time to play the Price is Right losing horn when they do inevitably miss a crucial shot. dyzzy fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 17, 2014 17:02
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A Curvy Goonette posted:Did EW ever fix the fact that sniper overwatch shots take a super long time to fire? Not really. Though it's got a contender with the Mec overwatch now.
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Feb 17, 2014 17:04
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SpRahl posted:Yeah he is saying that you dont have to switch back to the sniper as you activate overwatch, you can activate overwatch then gently caress around with other soldiers or something and then swap the sniper back to their rifle. No need to be quick about it. Unless the sniper is the last one to move, because then as soon as it deactivates them your turn ends. So it just becomes good practice to do it the quick way (plus it's not really twitch, so it gets really easy when you're used to it). It seems like more of a hassle to scroll back over to your sniper and click them to switch their weapon anyway. A Curvy Goonette posted:Did EW ever fix the fact that sniper overwatch shots take a super long time to fire? Given we've been watching Jade play EW, apparently they didn't. I have to assume that it's meant to make the sniper take their shot last in case there's an overwatch pileup, but the effects of that are variable at best, so I'm not sure why they'd bother.
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Feb 17, 2014 17:06
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I always enjoy it when the sniper lands the shot long after everyone else has killed the alien. Good job guy, you did it! 
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Feb 17, 2014 17:08
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Felinoid posted:
No, its just that overwatch shots play out the full attack animation in slow motion. Snipers just have the longest attack animation.
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Feb 17, 2014 17:08
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Zore posted:No, its just that overwatch shots play out the full attack animation in slow motion. Snipers just have the longest attack animation. Yeah, but you'd think if it were simply an oversight they'd do something about it after everyone complained. Given that they haven't changed it, I have to at least hope that they've got some other reason for it, even if it's a daffy one.
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Feb 17, 2014 17:15
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Felinoid posted:Yeah, but you'd think if it were simply an oversight they'd do something about it after everyone complained. Given that they haven't changed it, I have to at least hope that they've got some other reason for it, even if it's a daffy one. That reason doesn't make any sense. It doesn't matter when the actual attack hits since they all commit to the attack at once and waste their reaction shot either way.
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Feb 17, 2014 18:27
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A Curvy Goonette posted:That reason doesn't make any sense. It doesn't matter when the actual attack hits since they all commit to the attack at once and waste their reaction shot either way. The purpose wouldn't be to determine who shoots, but who kills. The idea potentially being to keep snipers from hogging all the kills with their high overwatch effectiveness by making sure everyone else gets their shot to kill the thing first. For low health stuff like thin men and floaters that might work, but for high health things later in the game, you're just as likely to start feeding the sniper because everyone else will soften it up for the sniper to finish off. It's probably a wash (or nearly) overall, which is why I said it was a bit daffy.
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Feb 17, 2014 18:38
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Spiffo posted:I think Jade mentioned using that glitch earlier in the thread. Ah. All I remembered him saying was that you had to click it wicked fast before the overwatch animation finished. Oh well. Someone else probably missed that too.
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Feb 17, 2014 19:16
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Felinoid posted:Yeah, but you'd think if it were simply an oversight they'd do something about it after everyone complained. Given that they haven't changed it, I have to at least hope that they've got some other reason for it, even if it's a daffy one. It's not hard to enable the time-compression doo-dad. In fact, I play with time compression on all the time now (I have to keep retoggling it, because it's basically just a variable that multiplies how many ticks run between frames--so when you get an alien activation with it's mild slow motion, it gets reset--though, weirdly, overwatch fire doesn't slow everybody down--only the victim of the overwatch and the shooter, so that doesn't reset it). Go into <Your Xcom Directory>/XCOMData/XComGame/Config, or for EW, it's something like <Your Xcom Directory>/XEW/XComGame/Config and you'll find DefaultInput.ini Find the [Engine.PlayerInput] section and add some lines below it like this: .Bindings=(Name="LeftBracket",Command="slomo 3",Control=False,Shift=False,Alt=False) .Bindings=(Name="RightBracket",Command="slomo 1",Control=False,Shift=False,Alt=False) Or x, where x is the name of the key and the number is the factor you want it to speed up by. The full list of Unreal key names is here: http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/KeyBinds.html#Mappable keys Anyway, I find it great for when I'm SCUMing from a mission start, or just bored with the glacial pace of clearing out a supply ship in the late game.
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Feb 17, 2014 19:41
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By the way if anyone wants to injure themselves this is a video of the antithesis of this thread.
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Feb 17, 2014 19:44
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Feinne posted:By the way if anyone wants to injure themselves this is a video of the antithesis of this thread. I'm five and a half minutes in and I can't stop watching. It's like a train wreck, if the train was standing outside cover and using a shotgun on the furthest possible targets.
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Feb 17, 2014 20:20
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 The best part of that DSP video  .
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Feb 17, 2014 20:20
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Feinne posted:By the way if anyone wants to injure themselves this is a video of the antithesis of this thread. "Looks like we're going back seven minutes!"
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Feb 17, 2014 20:22
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What happened to the drat colours, everything wrong and oversaturated.
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Feb 17, 2014 20:24
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Brainamp posted:Jade will probably cover it soon, but each class gets a different bonus when the get turned into a mec trooper. Going down the list: I do like how each of the Class abilities encourages you to play that Mec differently. Heavies work well as just general all around advance units with their ability to nerf the closest alien's aim, Sniper MECs are entrenched fighters. Put them into position and keep them still if possible and they'll be tough to dislodge. Assaults are ideal for getting into the thick of things with a **** Off Punch or Flamethrower, and Supports are excellent for just parking in the middle of your squad and laying down fire as they buff your guy's defense.
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Feb 17, 2014 20:30
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