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precision posted:edit: Why did Claire want to get rid of Christina so badly? I assumed it was because of her ties to Russo, and Claire didn't like being reminded that Francis killed such a genuinely good man, but then she started doing the "hey First Lady, she might be banging your husband" bit, which could have just been a way of weakening the President with at-home stress. It had nothing to do with Christina. Pointing her out was just a way to cause marital strife between the President and First Lady. What happened to Christina was utterly unimportant to their plans, thus why her being let go is only given a passing acknowledgement.
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Feb 24, 2014 14:58
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precision posted:Also, for a fun time, watch Veep right before this show. Good lord, what I wouldn't give for just one episode that's a crossover between them. Julia Louis-Dreyfus tearing into Frank would be glorious. Ah hah, that'd be fantastic. Selena Meyer's staff is so sharp and foul-mouthed, they'd outgun anyone Frank can wrangle.
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Feb 24, 2014 15:38
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double post
massive spider fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 15:48
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Blazing Ownager posted:The creepy part of that scene, though, for me - and actually correct me if I'm wrong - but it gave the vibe Frank and Claire just can't be intimate without a third person proxy involved somehow. I got that too, from the scene earlier in the series where they discuss how now they're power players they cant have affairs anymore was interesting. The implied tone I got was that they don't actually have sex anymore. It would make sense to me: "everything in the world is about sex except sex, sex is about power". Frank and Claire obviously have a loving relationship as effective equals, but its totally asexual since they ARE equals. Its only when they have Meechum involved who's basically a submissive puppet to both of them that they can get off. I wasn't really shocked when it happened because they both get this glint in their eye whenever Meechum is being especially subservient. "Woah this job comes with a man-tool, sweet'. massive spider fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 15:53
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Frank and Claire have a deep understanding of why they're together and why they work well together. I don't think intimacy, or the love that comes from it, plays into either one of their characters. They're both cold, calculating, and a little sociopathic. Frank is at least. Claire seems to school girl copy him until the moment where she realized that she's not such a cold, unfeeling person and cries after getting yelled at by the other rape victim. I don't think they're capable of having emotional sex. They can hold each other and feel comfort in knowing that they're two of the most powerful individuals in the whole world, but there's no love between them. It's why their affairs are so easily brushed off. It's why Frank took it personally when he found out about General Rape, not because he felt for his wife in an intrinsically passionate way, but because it was as if General Rape degraded the power structure of their marriage. It wasn't that he raped her, it was that it made for another headache to deal with. Frank get's noticeably indifferent towards the rape after Claire spins it into a positive PR scheme. He get's noticeably more involved once the rape bill gets held up in the house. Again, it has nothing to do with Claire getting raped and entirely to do with his power being tested by Jackie. Frank and Claire's relationship rivals any power couple you saw on Rome or Spartacus.
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Feb 24, 2014 16:40
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Blazing Ownager posted:The creepy part of that scene, though, for me - and actually correct me if I'm wrong - but it gave the vibe Frank and Claire just can't be intimate without a third person proxy involved somehow. This is exactly what I was getting, too. Initially all the looks Claire was giving Fronk when he was bandaging Meecham's hand I took to be 'Can I have him?', but looking back it was more along the lines of 'is this one okay with you, too?' Like he was an offering. If they're both accepting of that style of relationship, that's okay by me, but it's a really alien idea to me, personally, which makes it kind of interesting.
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Feb 24, 2014 16:49
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precision posted:Also, for a fun time, watch Veep right before this show. Good lord, what I wouldn't give for just one episode that's a crossover between them. Julia Louis-Dreyfus tearing into Frank would be glorious. I actually had just watched all of Veep a couple weeks before watching this season and kept laughing at how the position of vice president was portrayed at completely opposite ends of the spectrum.
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Feb 24, 2014 16:59
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Is Veep actually worth watching and hot poo poo in terms of acting and story and stuff, or is it just an amusing pastime?
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Feb 24, 2014 17:08
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Drifter posted:Is Veep actually worth watching and hot poo poo in terms of acting and story and stuff, or is it just an amusing pastime? Doltos posted:Frank get's noticeably indifferent towards the rape after Claire spins it into a positive PR scheme. He get's noticeably more involved once the rape bill gets held up in the house. Their relationship was much more asexual this season, though more equal. Hm... No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 17:14
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My biggest complaint about this season is one that I think a number of critics have, basically that Frank doesn't seem to have an equal/opposite to act as his antagonist. I'd really like to see a republican version of Frank next season where there is legitimate tension and the serious possibility that he might actually not win. I get that Frank Underwood is the main character and he is highly capable/smart/calculating, but he runs circles around anyone who opposes him. The interactions with Tusk were great (primarily on the strength of their performances) but I never actually thought Tusk would win or even significantly damage Frank. I suppose the "scandals" Tusk uncovered may not be fully felt until later on but Frank is president now so he won and won as big as you can win, which actually surprised me that they would go for it at the end of this season. And I suppose you can say that there were significant casualties/sacrifices in his rise to the presidency, but it doesn't seem to faze him in the grand scheme of things (because he is so cold and calculating/sociopathic) so if he doesn't care why should the audience? Unless he is being set up for a huge downfall (which apparently the UK version would suggest) the show is nothing more than the Frank Underwood Power Hour. It would appear Frank has nowhere to go but down now, so the next season should be an interesting one. I guess I'm getting bored with seeing Frank win so constantly and so quickly (how long was it from being majority whip to President?), despite the show being highly entertaining. Drifter posted:Fronk This typo made me laugh more than is appropriate. For me Veep is just an amusing pastime, though it's highly amusing and has some great laugh out loud moments and funny/clever dialogue. Any actual story/plot stuff isn't very engaging, especially after watching shows like House of Cards and West Wing.
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Feb 24, 2014 17:19
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I really enjoyed S1 of HoC but season 2 got really fatiguing. Frank is like the political version of a superhero with no weaknesses.
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Feb 24, 2014 17:26
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EvilJimmyCarter posted:My biggest complaint about this season is one that I think a number of critics have, basically that Frank doesn't seem to have an equal/opposite to act as his antagonist. I agree. He's not being tested. We think he is but he's in such absolute comfortable control that it's not progressing his character. Next season definitely needs a Frank equivalent who outthinks him and is steps ahead of him, instead of just on equal footing.
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Feb 24, 2014 17:53
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OldTennisCourt posted:I was never really bothered by how weak the President was. I think that, since we never hear a mention of Obama or even Bush as I recall, the political landscape was pretty different. Maybe Walker's platform was based on being open to new ideas and new viewpoints and that was just a cover for "Not willing to make lovely decisions on a whim based on political beliefs." and therefore he was just a lot easier to bulldoze over than usual. I always saw it as Raymond Tusk did all the heavy lifting to get Walker into the presidency. Walker was just supposed to be Tusk's mouthpiece in the Oval Office.
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Feb 24, 2014 18:23
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Drifter posted:Is Veep actually worth watching and hot poo poo in terms of acting and story and stuff, or is it just an amusing pastime? It's probably the most laugh-out-loud comedy in recent memory, especially season 2. The dialogue is whip-smart and furiously fast, and it has a more or less perfect cast. If nothing else, watch the episode (S2E4, I think) where she goes to Finland. Dave Foley guest stars as Finland's prime minister's husband. "You raped my tit." edit: If I were to compare it to anything, it would be Archer, in terms of how fast and snappy the jokes fly.
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Feb 24, 2014 20:31
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I marathoned the whole thing this weekend. What a fantastic show. Now that Frank has BASICALLY done everything he set out to do from Season 1 I really wonder how this will all play out. Feel so bad about Doug, you should have let Rachel go! 
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Feb 24, 2014 20:34
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Fronk was an amazing typo. precision posted:edit: If I were to compare it to anything, it would be Archer, in terms of how fast and snappy the jokes fly. You better not be toying with my emotions. I'll check out that episode and go from there.
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Feb 24, 2014 20:38
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EvilJimmyCarter posted:I guess I'm getting bored with seeing Frank win so constantly and so quickly (how long was it from being majority whip to President?), despite the show being highly entertaining. I can understand that. It's one of reasons why I'm hoping Season 3 is about him struggling against an impending downfall. It would be a nice change of pace after 2 seasons of straight victories.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:19
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Lycus posted:I can understand that. It's one of reasons why I'm hoping Season 3 is about him struggling against an impending downfall. It would be a nice change of pace after 2 seasons of straight victories. Ultimately, a season 3 and or 4 has to be about this or else the show would kind of suck. He might or might not get his comeuppance but at minimum he has to struggle mightily to hold on. "Frank screws everyone over rather easily and then does a victory dance over a pile of their corpses in the Oval Office" is not very compelling, as much as some of you might enjoy that.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:30
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thathonkey posted:I really enjoyed S1 of HoC but season 2 got really fatiguing. Frank is like the political version of a superhero with no weaknesses. I think it's obvious that he will be brought down by his very first major lie (in the series), faking that police report with Russo. It's right there in the title - the whole thing can be brought down by one early mistake. I disagree he's got no weaknesses, because he's made mistakes and those mistakes continue to haunt him even after he's killed to hide them. In fact I'd argue the majority of non-Frank screen time is devoted to following the events that stem from his mistakes. The REAL Goobusters posted:I marathoned the whole thing this weekend. What a fantastic show. Now that Frank has BASICALLY done everything he set out to do from Season 1 I really wonder how this will all play out. Feel so bad about Doug, you should have let Rachel go! Yeah, Doug's death took me off guard. It's amazing how they made me feel bad for a character who, moments before, I thought was going to murder someone and has done some pretty bad things throughout the run. "What.. what are you doing?" in puzzlement has to be the saddest last words, seriously.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:35
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If you think about it, even though Frank "won" and is now distracted by the duties of assuming the most powerful office in the world, he has plenty of reasons to be worried as poo poo. For him to know that the hooker who can tie him to Russo's death was Doug's project, and that Doug is now unaccountably missing, has got to make the guy poo poo his pants a little on some level even though his potential assets to clean up messes are incredible now (although using Presidential powers to clean his dirty work up creates its own new secrets, leverage and co-conspirators).
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Feb 24, 2014 21:43
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I think Breaking Bad spoiled me on "guy does bad things, karma shits on him" so I honestly would be pretty happy if they defied all expectations and had Frank just keep on winning, abolishing term limits and being installed as Emperor Pope Jesus of America 2.0
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Feb 24, 2014 22:01
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Doltos posted:I agree. He's not being tested. We think he is but he's in such absolute comfortable control that it's not progressing his character. Next season definitely needs a Frank equivalent who outthinks him and is steps ahead of him, instead of just on equal footing. For this reason, I viewed it similarly to There Will Be Blood. In the sense that Daniel Plainview has intense ennui at being the smartest, most capable man in a world of weak and terrible people. After a point, it's more about how lonely and isolating it is, to have no equal and to so effortlessly win. There were tinges of this for me, in Frank's story this season. Especially when he enters the Oval Office at the end, and it's so sparse and empty. He won, but now what? What's interesting to me is, you could easily make a show where characters like Zoe, Janine, or Lucas are crusader good-guys who seek truth, and are actually heroic...but the sense I got from this season is that they're all weak, stupid, manipulable people who are simply too myopic and self-interested (in fame, or revenge, or whatever else) to uncover anything. Lucas in particular is a mad dog who's totally reckless; I can't imagine anyone watching the show had any real investment in him. Some actually competent challenge would be interesting, though. But it's hard for me to say what that could be....Frank is the President. Who's going to challenge him, the FED chair? A Republican challenger in the election?
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Feb 24, 2014 22:03
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Lycus posted:I can understand that. It's one of reasons why I'm hoping Season 3 is about him struggling against an impending downfall. It would be a nice change of pace after 2 seasons of straight victories. It'd be great to have the burdens of the office slowly drag him down, not due to scheming, but to being powerless in the face of a contrary congress. Also, I wonder if he will have any good for the country policies he'll try to enact as president. I know policy hasn't really ever been touched on significantly, but now that he's pres it might be interesting.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:05
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Xealot posted:For this reason, I viewed it similarly to There Will Be Blood. In the sense that Daniel Plainview has intense ennui at being the smartest, most capable man in a world of weak and terrible people. After a point, it's more about how lonely and isolating it is, to have no equal and to so effortlessly win. There were tinges of this for me, in Frank's story this season. Especially when he enters the Oval Office at the end, and it's so sparse and empty. He won, but now what? Daniel Plainview isn't the best example because while he felt this way, others certainly didn't and he was easily controlled at times. The old prospector making him go to church to repent, the wealthy Union Oil execs who were just frankly embarrassed for him when he got drunk at the bar. I don't think Frank has the same ennui as Daniel did either, because Daniel was desperately trying to fill a void of a lack of family by being successful while Frank just doesn't even seem to have a void to fill. I'm glad you brought up There Will Be Blood though because I've been wanting to bitch about the musical pacing in that movie for a while now and no one talks about it anymore.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:30
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Lucas was always a total d-bag and I really hope he isn't even around in season 3 at all. Gavin is basically "Lucas without the lovely personality" and I'm looking forward to seeing what he and Cashew get up to. He's probably the most sympathetic character, too. His "gently caress you, I'm taking real risks" speech to Lucas was fantastic.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:34
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In any case, Fronk doesn't know Rachel is still in play so from his perspective Doug was mysteriously murdered in the woods. That's got to be very disconcerting.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:39
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I'd be ok with it if we started using Fronk moving forward.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:53
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Seems like Rachel could get picked up pretty fast since they put out an APB on Doug's car.Blazing Ownager posted:I disagree he's got no weaknesses, because he's made mistakes and those mistakes continue to haunt him even after he's killed to hide them. In fact I'd argue the majority of non-Frank screen time is devoted to following the events that stem from his mistakes. You make a good point.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:55
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Her getting caught in Doug's car could make Tom and Janine reconsider Lucas's sanity or lack thereof.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:58
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wins.
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thathonkey posted:Seems like Rachel could get picked up pretty fast since they put out an APB on Doug's car. I like the fallout of that scenario. WHY did she have Stamper's car? What was she even doing in that area to begin with? "He had abducted me, was keeping me hidden" "Why was a government official keeping you hidden?" "I was hired to fake an interest in Senator Russo and to cause him to relapse. I wasn't allowed to contact my family again after that night." She so quickly blows the entire thing wide open, but I think Stamper's the only one who could really testify to the point it would ruin Frank, and he's dead. The pieces left are very suspicious though that's for sure. Especially if the hacker comes forward with Frank and Zoe's phone logs so soon before she turns up dead as well. I really hope Season 3 is all the bodies piling up and Frank keeping them all hidden, and season 4 let's it all come out. Or do that halfway through season 3 to keep it true to the UK run length. bring back old gbs fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Feb 25, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 23:15
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PassTheRemote posted:Her getting caught in Doug's car could make Tom and Janine reconsider Lucas's sanity or lack thereof. Janine doesn't think Lucas is crazy, she is just too scared to take part.
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Feb 24, 2014 23:23
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GOT VIRUS FROM MP3 posted:I really hope Season 3 is all the bodies piling up and Frank keeping them all hidden, and season 4 let's it all come out. Or do that halfway through season 3 to keep it true to the UK run. The "no spoiler tags" rule applies to the US version, please don't spoil things that happen in the UK version since they've been pretty faithful to it so far. I feel like season 3 just got more or less ruined for me.
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Feb 24, 2014 23:44
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precision posted:The "no spoiler tags" rule applies to the US version, please don't spoil things that happen in the UK version since they've been pretty faithful to it so far. I feel like season 3 just got more or less ruined for me. I don't understand what you mean by this but nothing was ruined for you, so you can feel however you like. I was commenting on the length of the series. House of Cards UK being 3 seasons long is not a spoiler. I haven't seen a single second of the UK HOC. bring back old gbs fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Feb 25, 2014 |
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Feb 25, 2014 00:22
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GOT VIRUS FROM MP3 posted:I don't understand what you mean by this but nothing was ruined for you, so you can feel however you like. I was commenting on the length of the series. House of Cards UK being 3 seasons long is not a spoiler. I haven't seen a single second of the UK HOC. Ohhhh, sorry, the way you worded it sounded like you were spoiling what happens halfway through season 3, rather than commenting on whether there will be a season 4 or not. Sorry, and I'm glad I didn't get spoiled!
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Feb 25, 2014 00:30
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precision posted:Lucas was always a total d-bag and I really hope he isn't even around in season 3 at all. I'm generally disappointed in how the writing team has written everyone in the press (including Zoe after the early episodes). The only press character I've found sympathetic in the slightest is post-ousting Hammerschmidt.
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Feb 25, 2014 00:31
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GOT VIRUS FROM MP3 posted:I don't understand what you mean by this but nothing was ruined for you, so you can feel however you like. I was commenting on the length of the series. House of Cards UK being 3 seasons long is not a spoiler. I haven't seen a single second of the UK HOC. I watched the UK series after watching series 1 of the US version. I found in both versions the strength of the acting kept me watching along with all the character intricacies and of course the odd monologue. I defy anyone to not enjoy Kevin Spacey, he certainly plays Frank very well, even if I knew the plot I would still want to watch. There is certainly room to grow in the US version as discussed already with perhaps an opposite number but I'm thoroughly enjoying series 2 even knowing what it likely to come next.
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Feb 25, 2014 00:37
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So why doesn't Tusk simply take down Frank with him too at the hearing? He's already sacrificing himself out of bitterness, it wouldn't be hard for him to say that the one time majority whip knew about the donations.
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Feb 25, 2014 01:11
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Tusk figures Frank will take over when the President is gone, so whatever deal he had with Walker will be there for Frank, he wants a pardon to avoid spending the rest of his life as a disgraced federal inmate. If he burns Underwood, and Underwood survives, then no deal, if he keeps Frank's bit out of it, he might get his pardon. Reality is Frank won't lift a finger to help him, be it eliminate a threat, Destroying Tusk completely, or as payback for Freddie.
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Feb 25, 2014 01:46
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patb01 posted:Tusk figures Frank will take over when the President is gone, so whatever deal he had with Walker will be there for Frank, he wants a pardon to avoid spending the rest of his life as a disgraced federal inmate. I can't believe that Tusk would really believe that Frank would bail him out. Besides anything else the new President who will still have this scandal over his head pardoning the guy who confessed to being involved would be incredibly damaging, even putting aside the fact that Frank hates Tusk anyway.
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Feb 25, 2014 01:56
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As far as anyone is concerned Rachel murdered the chief of staff of the president. She's hosed. If she had come forward before maybe she could cause some trouble but at this point the best thing for her to do would be to disappear. The instant Frank is aware of her he is going to shut her down. Frank is too ruthless and has too much power at this point for anyone other than a foreign power player, someone on the level of Tusk or maybe his own VP(wonder who this will be? Frankie?) to take him down. As an aside, I wonder what the Underwood plan for peace in the middle east would look like. 
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Feb 25, 2014 02:16
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