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I need someone to explain something to me. I've read the books, and now I've been re-watching the TV show in preparation for the new season. When Arya saved the face-less man, he told her something like, "You stole three deaths from the Red God. We have to give them back." I'm guessing that the fire represented the red god? Why would a faceless man care what the red god needed? I thought those two gods were directly against each other. The red god resurrects people, the Many-Faced God kills them.
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Mar 4, 2014 11:38
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The Many-Faced God is all Gods, and the Red God is but an aspect of him. The faceless men would feel the same way if you saved someone from drowning, as that is a death associated with the Drowned God. Also it isn't really a widespread thing that the Red God resurrects people, otherwise the entirety of Essos would be crawling with Dondarrion-likes.
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Mar 4, 2014 12:13
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Because the many faced god is obsessed with balance. Balance is an important theme in the universe of ASOIAF. You've got two magical elements in eternal opposition: fire and ice, and a geographical pole corresponding to each one. Ice: Geographical pole: Northern tip of Westeros Religion: The Old Gods Weird monster thing: Zombies Brings people back to life Fire: Geographical pole: The shadow beyond Asshai (maybe) Religion: R'hllor Weird monster thing: Dragons Brings people back to life The gods probably aren't literal gods, but just a way that people choose to worship an elemental power. There was a great cataclysm that upset the balance of ice and fire which keep the world turning properly, the Doom of Valyria. Whatever it was, it hosed up the balance and hosed up the planet, and the seasons went crazy, hence the brutal winters. The song of ice and fire is going to be the person who brings the world back into a state of balance between the two. So it makes sense that somewhere along that Ice/Fire scale there's a third manifestion of magic, a balancing force of some kind, which would be the Many Faced God. This is a theory that one of my RL friends threw at me, and I'm sold on it.
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Mar 4, 2014 12:17
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This would contradict the theory that the Faceless Men actually caused the Doom.
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Mar 4, 2014 13:04
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It was also just a really fancy way of saying "You saved three people from burning to death, so we owe you one (three)". As a Faceless Man he is bound to never kill without proper sacrifice, and three people living who should have died means that Arya has three lives she owes death.
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Mar 4, 2014 13:39
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ShaqDiesel posted:This would contradict the theory that the Faceless Men actually caused the Doom. Not necessarily. The Targs were traditionally kinda obsessed with fire, and having access to dragons only reinforced that alignment. Maybe the Faceless Men felt that them consolidating power throughout most of Essos and even gaining a foothold in Westeros threatened the balance too much, and were then moved to orchestrate the Doom.
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Mar 4, 2014 13:47
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Also, his disguise at the time, Jaqen, was supposed to be from the Essos and he would have worshipped the Red God, even if the Faceless Man pretending to be Jaqen did not.
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Mar 4, 2014 14:03
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:Whatever it was, it hosed up the balance and hosed up the planet, and the seasons went crazy, hence the brutal winters. Except the hosed up seasons only happen on Westeros.
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Mar 4, 2014 14:32
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Except the hosed up seasons only happen on Westeros. I seem to remember Braavos also having their ports freeze up but maybe not. Maybe Westeros is the land of Winter while Essos is the land of Summer, and Westeros is just out of balance.
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Mar 4, 2014 14:38
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Well, ports do freeze up. Like, bays will become impassably full of ice in our world as well. But multi-year seasons?
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Mar 4, 2014 14:40
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Essos has regular seasons? Is this canon? 
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Mar 4, 2014 14:43
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ShaqDiesel posted:Essos has regular seasons? Is this canon? Don't think so, I think that the final Dany chapter in ADWD implies that autumn is also hitting Essos which could imply that its seasons coincide with Westeros. It wasn't confirmed either way as far as I know, guess we'll have to wait for 'The World of Ice and Fire' to find out for certain.
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Mar 4, 2014 14:58
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Are we really debating climate change in a book about magic and dragons? The climate changed because it fits GRRM's story, and it will be explained because of magic, not because of polar shifts from volcanos or whatever.
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Mar 4, 2014 16:07
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I think we were discussing whether the books imply that the magic seasons also occur on continents other than Westeros or not. Nobody mentioned binary star systems yet so you know it's not that discussion again.
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Mar 4, 2014 16:19
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Hey guys what if the world is actually on the inside of a hollow sphere and
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Mar 4, 2014 16:34
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Doltos posted:Are we really debating climate change in a book about magic and dragons? The climate changed because it fits GRRM's story, and it will be explained because of magic, not because of polar shifts from volcanos or whatever. I'm pretty sure the seasons are weird because the turtle that supports the world gets tired sometimes.
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Mar 4, 2014 16:49
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So how do you think they're going to adapt the rest of the series? My guess is that season 4 will cover the rest of Storm of Swords, with some of the Martel, Ironborn, and Bran story lines from the last two books squeezed in. But I think season 4 will end where book 3 ended. I think it will take 3 more seasons for the series to tell the rest of the story from the last two books, and they'll probably have to make some more stuff up for Bran to do since there's not much more to his arc up this point in the books. Book six should be out by the end of the year (hopefully) and judging by the lengths of the recent books it will probably take at least two seasons for the series to adapt that one as well. That should also (hopefully) give GRRM enough time to finish the last book before the tv series catches up to him. So, to break it down, here's my guess: Season 1 - A Game of Thrones Season 2 - A Clash of Kings Season 3 - A Storm of Swords (Part One) Season 4 - A Storm of Swords (Part Two) with some events from A Feast For Crows and A Dance with Dragons Season 5 - A Feast For Crows / A Dance With Dragons (Part One) Season 6 - A Feast For Crows / A Dance With Dragons (Part Two) Season 7 - A Dance With Dragons (Part Three) with some parts of The Winds of Winter That will get us to 2018 which should give GRRM more than enough time to be at least be one book ahead of the tv series, assuming he doesn't die before he finishes it. Gianthogweed fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 16:59
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Sam. posted:I'm pretty sure the seasons are weird because the turtle that supports the world gets tired sometimes. That's why I loved Discworld. Terry Pratchett could just explain anything away and you'd just nod your head and go yeah, ok, that makes sense. GRRM does a good job of this too because all of his characters are super vested in their own universe and say things with conviction. That's why I really believed that Mirri Maz Duur permanently cursed Dany's baby maker.
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Mar 4, 2014 17:14
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I think GRRM is under a bit more pressure than 2018. Season 3 takes us roughly through 75% of ASoS, per the following: I would guess that by the end of season 5 we're a corresponding 75% of the way through the Feast/Dance events, and that by season 6 they'll need some stuff from TWoW to fill in the appropriate gaps. GRRM has also said that there were a few major battles and similar big events that fell out of ADWD that he's going to resolve early on in TWoW; given the show's desire to throw a big battle-type set-piece late in a season, I'd speculate that the show could even need one of those to cap off season 6. That chart above also does a good job of visualizing how much more the show's chronology is departing from the strict chapter order of the books - season 1 is pretty linear but by season 3 the show writers are doing a lot more mixing and matching. Given we don't know what happens in book 6, there could be a need for some book 6 event to work it's way into even season 5. That would give GRRM until season 6 for TWoW, so 2016, with an outside chance of some book 6 events are needed for season 5 in 2015. I'm worried less about book 6 then book 7, as it won't be enough for GRRM to put out just book 6 only to be caught by the show's need for book 7 the next year. So, if he needs parts of book 7 for season 7 in 2017, and ADWD came out in 2011, that would put book 6 out in 2014 and book 7 out in 2017. That's pretty aggressive but would be in line with his early publishing timing, where books 1-3 came out ever 2 years. There's also the chance GRRM tells the show to gently caress off and that he needs more time on the books, in which case all bets are off.
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Mar 4, 2014 17:47
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The Winds of Winter battle stuff is already written so they can just drop that in there with no problem. I still think Winds of Winter will be released between Seasons 6 & 7 (or right around when they come out), and the show will then finish before the book (which won't be terrible since this part of the story is plotted out).
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Mar 4, 2014 17:49
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I still have doubts that Winds and Dream can be compressed to a season each, if Storm couldn't.
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Mar 4, 2014 17:53
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I guess my assumption is that the books will always precede the seasons they cover, even in part. Could be wrong but putting them out in the wild would steal a lot of the book's thunder, which seems like risk as far as book sales go; both the show and the books are cash for GRRM, but his publisher would probably raise a pretty big stink if the show starts negatively impacting the book sales.
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Mar 4, 2014 17:54
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Regy Rusty posted:Hey guys what if the world is actually on the inside of a hollow sphere and DeepQantas fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 17:57
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CapnAndy posted:I still have doubts that Winds and Dream can be compressed to a season each, if Storm couldn't. I don't think HBO would be averse to adding another season or two if D&D didn't mind. Especially if the numbers continue like they have.
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Mar 4, 2014 17:58
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I believe George has already signed away his right to have final decision in regards to what happens with the show; he gave that to D&D. He told them how it ends, and no matter how badly he may want them to wait for him to write the books first the choice is theirs (by RIGHT) to finish the show whenever they want. I remember reading in this thread that George has appealed to them to take a season off (do a prequel season, Dunk and Egg, etc.) and they said no because they don't want to ruin the momentum that GoT has with the mainstream public right now. Plus what could you do with the child actors?
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Mar 4, 2014 18:00
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CapnAndy posted:I still have doubts that Winds and Dream can be compressed to a season each, if Storm couldn't. Storm absolutely could have been done in one season, but the producers chose not to because they wanted to emphasize the Red Wedding.
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Mar 4, 2014 18:04
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timp posted:I believe George has already signed away his right to have final decision in regards to what happens with the show; he gave that to D&D. He told them how it ends, and no matter how badly he may want them to wait for him to write the books first the choice is theirs (by RIGHT) to finish the show whenever they want. I remember reading in this thread that George has appealed to them to take a season off (do a prequel season, Dunk and Egg, etc.) and they said no because they don't want to ruin the momentum that GoT has with the mainstream public right now. Plus what could you do with the child actors? Yeah, it wouldn't work the way he wants it to. I saw him cite Spartacus as making something like that work, but that was a different beast. It was done directly after season 1, so they could plot out a prequel that kept all the same actors from Season 1, including the characters that died, giving them another season of work, and none of the actors on that show were in super high demand at the time. A prequel for GOT at this point would require bringing in actors that have long since departed the show and / or a completely different cast while putting everyone else on ice for a year. Logistically, that doesn't work. He made his own bed.
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Mar 4, 2014 18:07
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I got it: Do the 5 year time jump GRRM originally intended to do in the place of aFfC/aDwD. I'm joking, but the more I think about it...
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Mar 4, 2014 18:19
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timp posted:I got it: Do the 5 year time jump GRRM originally intended to do in the place of aFfC/aDwD. I mean Arya is gonna be pretty old by the time they get done with the stories. Sansa might actually look how she's supposed to look though.
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Mar 4, 2014 18:40
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timp posted:I got it: Do the 5 year time jump GRRM originally intended to do in the place of aFfC/aDwD. Yeah, we should have a time-gap between books where all the characters are training offscreen so they come back at the end of it with cool new powers and in the meantime the TV show can make up its own stories involving Brienne and Pod having adventures and bonding and there can be stuffed-animal characters who talk and take the shape of lions and direwolves and oh god I just made ASOIAF an anime 
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Mar 4, 2014 19:17
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Gianthogweed posted:So how do you think they're going to adapt the rest of the series? My guess is that season 4 will cover the rest of Storm of Swords, with some of the Martel, Ironborn, and Bran story lines from the last two books squeezed in. But I think season 4 will end where book 3 ended. I think it will take 3 more seasons for the series to tell the rest of the story from the last two books, and they'll probably have to make some more stuff up for Bran to do since there's not much more to his arc up this point in the books. Book six should be out by the end of the year (hopefully) and judging by the lengths of the recent books it will probably take at least two seasons for the series to adapt that one as well. That should also (hopefully) give GRRM enough time to finish the last book before the tv series catches up to him. So, to break it down, here's my guess: Are you drunk? The written material might get stretched to season six if it includes the battle from winds. Might. Also we know for a fact that this world exists in a hollow sphere since that's how the opening credits are design and George wouldn't let something that wrong herp derp drool
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Mar 4, 2014 19:19
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Nobody mentioned binary star systems yet so you know it's not that discussion again. I'm still sour about the lack of a complete explanation for the orbital mechanics involved in Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. These things are critical to my enjoyment. 
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Mar 4, 2014 19:30
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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I'd want to kill myself if AFFC/ADWD was stretched over 3-4 seasons. We'd see 4 episodes of Kingsmoot and 7 of Bran walking to a tree.
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Mar 4, 2014 19:32
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:I'd want to kill myself if AFFC/ADWD was stretched over 3-4 seasons.
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Mar 4, 2014 19:37
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It won't take that long to get through AFFC/ADWD. I would not be surprised if we start seeing elements intended for TWOW to begin appearing as early as season 5. Edit: Anyone know if it was ever confirmed if Natalia Tena filmed for season 4? I'm just curious if she and Rickon drop off the face of the earth for a season or two, or if the show runners are going to give them stuff to do.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:03
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rypakal posted:Are you drunk? The written material might get stretched to season six if it includes the battle from winds. Might.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:05
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If you want crazy GRRM universe stuff, check out The Dying of the Light*. At least most of aSoIaF is confined to one planet. *I couldn't get through it.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:07
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CapnAndy posted:Are you? That's still two books stretching over 2000 pages long worth of material, it's not fitting in one season. It's not going to take three and change like the quote seems to suggest, either. Perhaps the answer is in the middle guys rite?!?!?!?!?! There's enough stuff in both books that doesn't really have to be depicted (not to mention how often the show diverges from the written material anyway) that you can knock it out in 1.5 seasons.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:15
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The show is becoming more and more divergent so it may not matter. D&D will continue to consult with Martin, but they're not beholden to the books in any legal fashion.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:30
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Punch Card posted:It's not going to take three and change like the quote seems to suggest, either.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:31
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