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Mar 4, 2014 07:56
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But... but those aren't actually the same notes 
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Mar 4, 2014 08:12
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shalcar posted:It's also important to note that the second method fits beautifully into basic algebra and gives a grounding that children who have this method will already understand while those who only do the first won't. It's also really valuable to be able to look at problems multiple ways like that easily when working with a lot of modular operations like in number theory or cryptography, etc, or when working with stuff like algebraic structures where subtraction itself sometimes isn't treated as a valid operation.
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Mar 4, 2014 08:50
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It seems educational the way bubblesort is educational for computer science. You look at it once, figure out why it works, then figure out why despite of working it's not a good idea to do it that way, then discard it for the better method. It should be possible to show that method to a class of 8-10 year olds, ask them why it's not a good method and get some decent answers back. Or make them solve some homework with either method to teach them the value of a solution with higher investment but bigger return. It certainly beats the teaching style of "this is how it was always done and therefore you must do it this way". But if you actually plan to teach that second method in an expectation to use it for practical work 
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Mar 4, 2014 10:22
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Victoria Jackson's toolbox has one hammer in it, and that is all.
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Mar 4, 2014 10:32
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peak debt posted:It seems educational the way bubblesort is educational for computer science. You look at it once, figure out why it works, then figure out why despite of working it's not a good idea to do it that way, then discard it for the better method. You've already heard several people in this thread (and I'll add to them) pointing out that the second method is actually extremely similar to shorthand ways that we do mental arithmetic, and how it points toward other useful skills for real mathematics. For practical work, use a calculator.
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Mar 4, 2014 10:35
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VideoTapir posted:Victoria Jackson's toolbox has one hammer in it, and that is all. I think it's safe to say Victoria Jackson's toolbox has seven sockets with no ratchet or indication of metric or Imperial, and a rusty Phillips screwdriver with the tip too chewed up to actually be effective. Walter fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 10:43
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huh. funny I just saw this video a few days ago, decrying the typical order of operations and encouraging curriculum which stresses the relationships between numbers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9h1oqv21Vs
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Mar 4, 2014 14:14
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Has anyone tried to teach the new method? Can it be done within a reasonable timeframe versus the old method? Parents Against Common Core just go  over anything that's remotely new for ARE CHILDRENS, but I can see a 2nd grade teacher with a 80% reduced-lunch class looking at that and going 'gently caress this'
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Mar 4, 2014 14:20
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Magres posted:But... but those aren't actually the same notes You're getting from point A to point B a different way. "Back in my day we didn't practice our scales in thirds!!!"
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Mar 4, 2014 14:47
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menino posted:Has anyone tried to teach the new method? Can it be done within a reasonable timeframe versus the old method? Parents Against Common Core just go I don't know anything about this "new" method, and the bit I saw earlier in the thread looked pretty loving stupid to me, but I know enough to know that I don't know poo poo about how to teach math to kids. One of the most glaring flaws in Freepers seems to be that they have no idea exactly it is they don't know. On top of that, is their bizarre inability to see that just because something was done some particular way in 19xx does not mean that it should continue to be that way for the rest of eternity. It's so bizarre to watch how they totally flip out at nearly every societal change of any kind, yet they don't seem to be in a hurry to give up their plasma televisions, cell phones, and SUVs. I don't think "conservative" is accurate. I think the proper term is somewhere between "stationary" and "regressive."
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Mar 4, 2014 14:58
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Centripetal Horse posted:I don't know anything about this "new" method, and the bit I saw earlier in the thread looked pretty loving stupid to me, but I know enough to know that I don't know poo poo about how to teach math to kids. One of the most glaring flaws in Freepers seems to be that they have no idea exactly it is they don't know. When it comes to education, you also run into a lot of parents who feel that their experience in parenting their children means they're somehow more qualified to educate their children than "the system" that shows teachers how to educate a variety of children. If one of the parents doesn't work, this generally leads to home-schooling.
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Mar 4, 2014 15:07
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It just makes parents feel stupid when they can't do their 2nd grader's homework. I don't understand things and being challenged to understand them makes me angry! The government put the things there! Make the bad thing go away!
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Mar 4, 2014 15:08
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:The cool thing about the bottom one is that it's basically: I just wanted to say this is a really good explanation and I can see the value in it. The cool thing is I've always done something like this mentally and I like that it is being taught.
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Mar 4, 2014 15:13
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babies havin rabies posted:It just makes parents feel stupid when they can't do their 2nd grader's homework. I don't understand things and being challenged to understand them makes me angry! The government put the things there! Make the bad thing go away! If parents can't help their kids with homework, then the kids will be even more dependent on Daddy Government. Just what the liberals want!
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Mar 4, 2014 15:14
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menino posted:Has anyone tried to teach the new method? Can it be done within a reasonable timeframe versus the old method? Parents Against Common Core just go I am a K-5 ESL teacher but I have worked with the new method(s) with my kids and it takes a little while for the older kids to move away from the way they had learned but once it clicks it seems to really help. The common core has a lot of problems IMO but the way math is being taught is not one of those, it took me a little while before I was comfortable teaching it conceptually but it is really a great way to look at problems different ways. There is plenty to criticize with Common Core and it's implementation but like with Obama conservatives and freepers are freaking out about the wrong thing the new "math" or the "common core is teaching our kids to be gay" complaints are the birth certificate or Benghazi of the common core criticisms.
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Mar 4, 2014 15:15
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Hello Sailor posted:When it comes to education, you also run into a lot of parents who feel that their experience in parenting their children means they're somehow more qualified to educate their children than "the system" that shows teachers how to educate a variety of children. If one of the parents doesn't work, this generally leads to home-schooling. As a parent of two I can tell you that if you are sending your kid to school and then not also homeschooling them you are failing them. There is a lot of "least common denominator" and the books my daughter brings home are insultingly easy for her. We ask for tougher material and are ignored. She comes home to school break with instructions to "read ten minutes a day" and I have to pretend to try to make her only read ten minutes a day which she thinks is hilarious and gets her rebel fix by reading more. We have workbooks at home to try to push her further but I'm worried that common core is just going to hold her back if this one pace of learning thing is really going to be the norm.
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Mar 4, 2014 15:24
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Swarmin Swedes posted:I am a K-5 ESL teacher but I have worked with the new method(s) with my kids and it takes a little while for the older kids to move away from the way they had learned but once it clicks it seems to really help. OK, thanks for that. It certainly looks like a valuable long term way to look at math I was just wondering if it was feasible to get kids to grasp in the classroom.
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Mar 4, 2014 15:25
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menino posted:OK, thanks for that. It certainly looks like a valuable long term way to look at math I was just wondering if it was feasible to get kids to grasp in the classroom. I met some resistance with my 5th graders because they had been taught the "traditional" way but the younger kids seemed fine with it and seemed to grasp it fairly well, they may not be able to make the choice of which method is best but they can grasp the concepts and those concepts can provide that background for when they are more developed and will need to use the different methods.
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Mar 4, 2014 15:31
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SavageBastard posted:As a parent of two I can tell you that if you are sending your kid to school and then not also homeschooling them you are failing them. There is a lot of "least common denominator" and the books my daughter brings home are insultingly easy for her. We ask for tougher material and are ignored. She comes home to school break with instructions to "read ten minutes a day" and I have to pretend to try to make her only read ten minutes a day which she thinks is hilarious and gets her rebel fix by reading more. We have workbooks at home to try to push her further but I'm worried that common core is just going to hold her back if this one pace of learning thing is really going to be the norm. Public schools teaching to the lowest common denominator long predates common core.
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Mar 4, 2014 16:06
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This is the dumbest poo poo. My cousin who has been active duty in the Army for the last 8+ years posted this. He's lost friends in the war, and suffers from PTSD, yet inexplicably loving loves George Bush. I really don't get it.  Edit : may as well put this one here too. Crazy Uncle, different side of the family(I'm surrounded). 
hamster_style fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 17:55
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That reminds me of the wounded veteran collecting donations so his wife could meet her Hero, George Bush.
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Mar 4, 2014 17:59
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hamster_style posted:This is the dumbest poo poo. My cousin who has been active duty in the Army for the last 8+ years posted this. He's lost friends in the war, and suffers from PTSD, yet inexplicably loving loves George Bush. I really don't get it. Post this http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1392791.stm quote:
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Mar 4, 2014 18:00
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hamster_style posted:This is the dumbest poo poo. My cousin who has been active duty in the Army for the last 8+ years posted this. He's lost friends in the war, and suffers from PTSD, yet inexplicably loving loves George Bush. I really don't get it. Your cousin likely interprets attacks on Bush and his decisions in the war on terror as an attack on the military, and an attack on your cousin himself. He feels compelled to defend Bush as a proxy for himself. It's a common problem in attacks on "the troops".
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Mar 4, 2014 18:03
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hamster_style posted:This is the dumbest poo poo. My cousin who has been active duty in the Army for the last 8+ years posted this. He's lost friends in the war, and suffers from PTSD, yet inexplicably loving loves George Bush. I really don't get it. I remember when we cowboyed it up and attacked Russia after Russia attacked the western allied Georgia in 2008 wait a minute......
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Mar 4, 2014 18:24
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hamster_style posted:
I unironically want to live in a world where all foliage is edible, trippy as gently caress, and looks to be made of candy, but I'm a dumb libtard stoner so idk.
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Mar 4, 2014 18:41
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The stupid thing about those photo comparisons (not THOSE exactly but what they're drawing from) is how the Putin ones are obviously staged propaganda-y images while the Obama pictures are usually taken from him just doing something that's not a photo op.
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Mar 4, 2014 18:59
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If it were Obama riding a grizzly bear barechested none of those people would believe it, just as they don't believe it when it's Kim-Jong Il doing something similarly ridiculous. But then it's Putin so it's different and totally plausible and legit because
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Mar 4, 2014 19:22
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muscles like this? posted:The stupid thing about those photo comparisons (not THOSE exactly but what they're drawing from) is how the Putin ones are obviously staged propaganda-y images while the Obama pictures are usually taken from him just doing something that's not a photo op. Republicans are literally upset that Obama isn't engaging in nationalistic propaganda. You know who else liked nationalistic propaganda? 
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Mar 4, 2014 19:24
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Remember how brave and decisive George W. Bush killed Osama Bin Laden?
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Mar 4, 2014 19:27
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MisterBadIdea posted:Remember how brave and decisive George W. Bush killed Osama Bin Laden? Remember how brave and decisive George W. Bush reacted when he was told the twin towers were hit?
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Mar 4, 2014 19:29
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Hey the D&D helps D&D D&D thread seems to have vanished so I'll ask here: My dad seems to have gotten the idea into his head that "Government doesn't invest, it spends". He's a smart guy but he's been fed anti-government hypercapitalist propaganda all his life. Does anyone have some straightforward, mathematically provable examples to the contrary?
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Mar 4, 2014 19:32
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Polio was eradicated in the US thanks in large part to the CDC making the vaccine widely available. Is eradicating polio ~spending~ or an investment?
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Mar 4, 2014 19:41
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Swan Oat posted:Polio was eradicated in the US thanks in large part to the CDC making the vaccine widely available. Is eradicating polio ~spending~ or an investment? Thanks but this is too ~sensationalist~ and lacks direct dollar values. I'm looking for, like, spreadsheets.
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Mar 4, 2014 19:43
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DoctorWhat posted:Thanks but this is too ~sensationalist~ and lacks direct dollar values. I'm looking for, like, spreadsheets. The closest you would get is the chart that breaks down ROI for government spending and shows that SNAP provides a return of 150%.
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Mar 4, 2014 19:45
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Didn't Bill Clinton bail out Mexico, and then the Mexican government paid the loan back a few years later with interest? Even if the Mexican government earned the money through villainous taxes < >, that's still an ROI for the US.
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Mar 4, 2014 19:45
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DoctorWhat posted:Hey the D&D helps D&D D&D thread seems to have vanished so I'll ask here: This would be difficult because he's certainly going to take a moral stance on the numbers. Such as the idea that the government taxes, the free market just reinvests profits. They're both functionally the same but there's a moral difference, you see, because government just skims off the top and doesn't create blah blah etc. If he doesn't already see the incredibly obvious similarities between business and government spending then it's because he chooses not to. You should address that, and you're not going to be able to do that with a spreadsheet. Like there's no real objective way to say that coke is good and pepsi is poo poo. They're the same thing, an organization which uses money to accomplish (profits/social good), but try convincing a dedicated coke drinker that pepsi is in the same category.
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Mar 4, 2014 19:51
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Boywhiz88 posted:The closest you would get is the chart that breaks down ROI for government spending and shows that SNAP provides a return of 150%. Yeah, I don't think there's much government spending that actually returns directly to the government, loans aside. What you get are more like "By spending $Lots on public health, the government prevented millions of man-hours from being lost to sickness, thus saving/producing an extra $Lots of economic activity, which the government taxes to make a profit", or "By spending $Oodles on public education, the government helps/enables/encourages workers to become more skilled and obtain higher-paying employment, providing a return on investment in the form of taxes paid", or "Food stamps are an injection of money into the economy, stimulating consumer spending and expanding the economy sufficiently that taxes on the growth exceed spending on food stamps".
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Mar 4, 2014 19:52
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darthbob88 posted:Yeah, I don't think there's much government spending that actually returns directly to the government, loans aside. What you get are more like "By spending $Lots on public health, the government prevented millions of man-hours from being lost to sickness, thus saving/producing an extra $Lots of economic activity, which the government taxes to make a profit", or "By spending $Oodles on public education, the government helps/enables/encourages workers to become more skilled and obtain higher-paying employment, providing a return on investment in the form of taxes paid", or "Food stamps are an injection of money into the economy, stimulating consumer spending and expanding the economy sufficiently that taxes on the growth exceed spending on food stamps". A more concrete example would be infrastructure. The government spent money to build the highways, which then allowed new growth and development which would eventually return in a higher tax base. Functionally it's the same as a huge software company producing their own framework for other firms to use and generate revenue, some of which would eventually end up back in huge company's pockets.
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Mar 4, 2014 19:54
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DoctorWhat posted:Hey the D&D helps D&D D&D thread seems to have vanished so I'll ask here: Probably not, people like that tend to retrench and dig deeper when presented with evidence and arguments that go against their worldview.
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