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greatn posted:Mario Kart DS's entire racing metagame boils down to a repetitive back and forth snaking motion that is easy but incredibly tedious and boring to do. The tracks, karts, and racers are good though, but a glitch ruins the multiplayer. This is an unfair oversimplification. "Snaking" was a skill one had to develop, and use at the appropriate times, taking track features into consideration. And considering how many people bitch about it, was probably not easy for most people to learn and refine. And to suggest or imply that MKDS is more tedious or repetitive than other Mario Karts is pretty disingenuous. (For me, that title belongs to MKDD.) If anything, MKDS is the most satisfying and engaging entry in the series, and rewards skill more than any other MK. It was also a blast to play online. JesusLovesRonwell fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 18:32
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:This is an unfair oversimplification. "Snaking" was a skill one had to develop, and use at the appropriate times, taking track features into consideration. And considering how many people bitch about it, was probably not easy for most people to learn and refine. And to suggest or imply that MKDS is more tedious or repetitive than other Mario Karts is pretty disingenuous. (For me, that title belongs to MKDD.) If anything, MKDS is the most satisfying and engaging entry in the series, and rewards skill more than any other MK. It was also a blast to play online. "I liked this broken game mechanic because it worked for me."
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Mar 5, 2014 19:16
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Zack_Gochuck posted:"I liked this broken game mechanic because it worked for me." "I'm a scrub who refuses to adapt and learn, so I'll just sit here and bitch instead. That way, no one'll have the nice things! Mwahahahaha."
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Mar 5, 2014 19:29
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Yeah adapt and learn to the thing that Nintendo took out of future games.
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Mar 5, 2014 19:32
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Mario Kart DS was broken as hell. Snaking is incredibly easy, and made playing online incredibly unfun. The skill ceiling was just too low for such an uninteresting mechanic.
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Mar 5, 2014 19:36
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Pretty sure you'll find yourself in a small minority if you think snaking is "nice things". It isn't skill based, it removes precision racing skill from the game entirely. Sonic Racing Transformed has it perfect, you have to have good control, adaptability, weapon, track memorization and drifting skill. MKDS you can throw all that out the window, you need to be able to alternate between L and R, left and right, on straightaways because of a physics glitch. Ignore everything else. GX had the same problem but it was single player so you could just not do it if you didn't want to. greatn fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 19:37
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Power sliding was in MK64, they just made the boost bigger in MKDS which is what made it useful on straightaways and was really annoying. Did they really take the mechanic out entirely, or just make it only useful on turns?
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Mar 5, 2014 19:38
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Quest For Glory II posted:Yeah adapt and learn to the thing that Nintendo took out of future games. Yeah, because Nintendo always makes the best decisions (tripping, overall sluggishness of Brawl compared to Melee, WiiU, etc.). I'm guessing you're all in the subset of people who complained that MvC2 was "broken", unfair, blahblahblah, whinewhinewhine. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 5, 2014 19:50
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It's like I'm back in '06 participating in online discussions of how stupid/amazing snaking is! This forum is like a time machine.
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Mar 5, 2014 19:53
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:Yeah, because Nintendo always makes the best decisions (tripping, overall sluggishness of Brawl compared to Melee, WiiU, etc.). I'm guessing you're all in the subset of people who complained that MvC2 was "broken", unfair, blahblahblah, whinewhinewhine.
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Mar 5, 2014 19:53
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:Yeah, because Nintendo always makes the best decisions (tripping, overall sluggishness of Brawl compared to Melee, WiiU, etc.). I'm guessing you're all in the subset of people who complained that MvC2 was "broken", unfair, blahblahblah, whinewhinewhine. He's right about this one, also stop being a baby
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Mar 5, 2014 19:56
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:Yeah, because Nintendo always makes the best decisions (tripping, overall sluggishness of Brawl compared to Melee, WiiU, etc.). I'm guessing you're all in the subset of people who complained that MvC2 was "broken", unfair, blahblahblah, whinewhinewhine. anyone who complained about balancing in MVC2 clearly did not have enough drunk buddies to play it with.
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Mar 5, 2014 19:56
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Bad design can lead to difficult gameplay and it can also lead to easy gameplay. This is because quality of game design does not inherently correlate to difficulty. It is dumb to pretend that because something is a pain in the rear end it must be a coherent and worthwhile part of the game.
Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 19:58
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All the Mario Karts are good, all the Smash Bros are good, the pros/cons of each new version have little to do with how hard Nintendo's screwing up with the WiiU.
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Mar 5, 2014 20:16
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Surlaw posted:All the Mario Karts are good, all the Smash Bros are good, the pros/cons of each new version have little to do with how hard Nintendo's screwing up with the WiiU. Pretty much. Many have said it in this thread. The quality of the actual games is not the problem. There just aren't enough of them and the branding is screwed up as all hell.
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Mar 5, 2014 20:39
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Quest For Glory II posted:Yeah adapt and learn to the thing that Nintendo took out of future games. Like good level design. 
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Mar 5, 2014 21:34
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:Yeah, because Nintendo always makes the best decisions (tripping, overall sluggishness of Brawl compared to Melee, WiiU, etc.). I'm guessing you're all in the subset of people who complained that MvC2 was "broken", unfair, blahblahblah, whinewhinewhine. Well it was, MvC2 wasn't so much as rushed as it was blasted out the door half-finished, there's a reason the entire metagame revolves around 5 characters and the stages and music make no sense.
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Mar 5, 2014 21:48
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Since I never played too much MKDS online, what was the physics glitch? I thought snaking was just the boost you got from being behind someone, and didn't require anything like LRLRLRLR.
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Mar 5, 2014 21:49
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Suspicious Dish posted:Since I never played too much MKDS online, what was the physics glitch? I thought snaking was just the boost you got from being behind someone, and didn't require anything like LRLRLRLR. That's drafting, I think they're referring to the powerslide where you can build it up and get a boost going around corners. Except if you're quick enough you don't even need to be going around corners, just while turning a little. And Mario Kart DS gave the boost a bit of an upgrade, so people do it over and over on straightaways, "snaking" down the road and getting a powerslide boost every time they turn back and forth. Somebody correct me.
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Mar 5, 2014 21:56
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I don't think you even needed to get the boost, drifting by itself gave acceleration for a brief period, so if you kept drifting in opposite directions rhythmically you would just keep accelerating.
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Mar 5, 2014 22:07
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greatn posted:Sonic Racing Transformed has it perfect, you have to have good control, adaptability, weapon, track memorization and drifting skill. Eh Transformed's learning curve is a bit steep and playing against people online is just kind of eh. The good players are TOO good and I find it impossible to catch up to the like the first 3 places. I think Mario Kart's gameplay is better BUT I would love it if they stole the thing from Transformed where the track changes each lap. The Skies of Arcadia stage is REALLY cool because you start off driving and then it breaks apart in the third lap and you have to fly around a broken landscape. I wouldn't mind seeing Mario Kart take that idea. I don't see it happening for 8 though, or they would've showed that off in videos. The tracks are all looking very nice at least
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Mar 5, 2014 22:30
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You know what else was a "broken" mechanic in a game? Combos in Street Fighter 2. Now, combos are an absolutely integral part of all fighting games, from Street Fighter 4, to Smash Bros.Alteisen posted:Well it was, MvC2 wasn't so much as rushed as it was blasted out the door half-finished, there's a reason the entire metagame revolves around 5 characters and the stages and music make no sense. The highest level metagame revolves around closer to 15/20 characters. At the highest levels. Low level/low tier play is obviously much more expansive, and people play and are successful with the randomest teams online. But in the right hands, supposedly low tier characters can smash the God tiers. Case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-7suefXOTA Yes MvC2 was rushed, moreso than most fighting games, but players embraced the so-called brokenness, and the game ended up evolving into the pinnacle of the genre. And all fgs are rushed in a sense. SF4 was rushed. If it weren't, why are we approaching the 5th iteration of that series? And how would you even perfect/ly balance a fg? You can't. The stages and music are off the wall, but that was likely a stylistic choice, made for whatever reason. I will say that the music is under appreciated. (~Nobody to dry your eyes/ Drive me crazy...~)
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Mar 5, 2014 22:31
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Nobody cares Jesus, you don't have to defend a mechanic that you personally love a lot and everyone else hates. Combos were loved by all and became standard, Snaking was unloved by most and were taken out. Also Mario Kart is not a fighting game.
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Mar 5, 2014 22:36
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SF4 is on it's fifth revision because DLC sells well and it keeps copies moving for five years at a far smaller cost than making SF5, it has nothing to do with the game being "rushed."
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Mar 5, 2014 22:42
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:You know what else was a "broken" mechanic in a game? Combos in Street Fighter 2. Now, combos are an absolutely integral part of all fighting games, from Street Fighter 4, to Smash Bros.
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Mar 5, 2014 22:43
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Spiffo posted:Mario Kart is not a fighting game. All multiplayer Nintendo games are fighting games eventually.
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Mar 5, 2014 22:45
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Listen GRAMPS you geezers just need to catch up with the times. *new games come out that make changes* Well that doesn't count that's just bad game design *doesn't adapt* And now, a list of some Extremely Old games I'm good at.
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Mar 5, 2014 22:48
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Phantasium posted:All multiplayer Nintendo games are fighting games eventually.
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Mar 5, 2014 22:50
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I don't understand how anyone plays Street Fighter on a typical gamepad. It hurts my hands almost as much as Mario Kart snaking. Maybe if you could bind the fireball throwing command to Wiimote waggle...
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Mar 5, 2014 22:52
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JesusLovesRonwell posted:You know what else was a "broken" mechanic in a game? Combos in Street Fighter 2. Now, combos are an absolutely integral part of all fighting games, from Street Fighter 4, to Smash Bros. Good news: Nobody cares. Go back to the fighting game thread.
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Mar 6, 2014 06:44
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Fortuitous Bumble posted:I don't understand how anyone plays Street Fighter on a typical gamepad. It hurts my hands almost as much as Mario Kart snaking. Maybe if you could bind the fireball throwing command to Wiimote waggle... The GameCube did this with a game. Bound special moves to C stick directions. But that controller had the worst d-pad. Maybe even with the Duke's.
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Mar 6, 2014 07:23
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Soul Glo posted:The GameCube did this with a game. Bound special moves to C stick directions. For a long time Nintendo were using lovely d-pads and it didn't make sense because they had the patent on the best d-pad. Thank God they went back to good D-pads after the Wii. They were so tiny for about ten years.
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Mar 6, 2014 12:55
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They even made an entire console where the controller was actually constructed around not using the D pad.
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Mar 6, 2014 13:12
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Fulchrum posted:They even made an entire console where the controller was actually constructed around not using the D pad. The N64 you mean? True, but it's d-pad was big, clicky, soft, and responsive if you ever actually did use it. The virtual boy is obviously the best Nintendo console because it has not one, but TWO amazing D pads.
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Mar 6, 2014 14:50
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I'm actually a really big fan of the Sega Genesis D-pad. It had the whole circular thing going, so it was easier to do half-circles and poo poo in games like Mortal Kombat, but it was still super easy to push directly down, which seems to be an issue with a lot of circular d-pads.
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Mar 6, 2014 15:29
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Zack_Gochuck posted:Pretty much. Many have said it in this thread. The quality of the actual games is not the problem. There just aren't enough of them and the branding is screwed up as all hell. The argument that 'there's not enough good games' on the system actually somewhat baffles me. Even after more than a year with the all the delays that came about, the Wii U has Super Mario Wii, 3D World, Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3, Windwaker HD, Monster Hunter, Donkey Kong, Lego City Undercover, arguably ZombiU can go here as well. There's a lot more games on the Wii U right now that we could all agree are better in a lot of ways that the stuff the PS4 and the Bone launched with. It's had time to build up a library, and yet people still don't care. Beyond better marketing, it'd help if the big gimmick surrounding the Wii U was actually appealing, and was demonstrably fun to see in action with more games on the system. Even Nintendo has struggled to justify the Gamepad to general audiences. Seriously, telling people "Check it out! You can play videogames without needing the TV!" doesn't even approach Miyamoto walking on stage to talk about how you can swing a stick around and Link kinda sorta does what you want him to do roughly 60 percent of the time. We might be jaded towards motion controls now, but back when the Wii was released, you can't deny that poo poo had some bizarre mass appeal. By contrast, the Wii U basically had nothing going for it out the gate, other than it was a Nintendo system, and the lack of marketing buzz around the system suggests that Nintendo really thought that would be good enough.
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Mar 6, 2014 15:44
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From the official Watch Dogs release date PR:quote:Watch Dogs™ will be available on Sony PlayStation®4 computer entertainment system, PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system, Microsoft Xbox One® the all-in-one games and entertainment system, Microsoft Xbox 360® video game and entertainment system and Windows PC. The Wii U™ version will release at a later date.
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Mar 6, 2014 15:53
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I know that companies have always had anal style guides about how you refer to their products, but lately it seems to be getting especially audacious for consoles.
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Mar 6, 2014 15:59
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The Kins posted:Watch Dogs™ will be available on Sony PlayStation®4 computer entertainment system, PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system, Microsoft Xbox One® the all-in-one games and entertainment system, Microsoft Xbox 360® video game and entertainment system and Windows PC. The Wii U™ version will release at a later date. I at least have to respect Nintendo for just calling it the Wii U and not "the all-in-one games and entertainment system".
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Mar 6, 2014 16:42
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Rumors are going around that Nintendo is shutting down Nintendo WFC because it uses GameSpy (boy that takes me back) which is itself shutting down. Huh.
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