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No offense meant to you but I've heard that excuse before. "NGE is about the characters. If you focus on the plot and let that drag you down, you missed the point." But they wouldn't constantly be talking about Adam and Lilith and Lance of whatever and all that stuff if it was truly unimportant I'm pretty sure the writer thought he was putting together a nice complex storyline but in the end it just comes off as convoluted and badly told. Also they made a huge deal about when Shinji ate that Angel, thus gaining the S2 Engine. All the EVAs attacking Asuka had those while she did not ie. she was way the gently caress weaker than any of them.
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Mar 14, 2014 22:45
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NikkolasKing posted:No offense meant to you but I've heard that excuse before. "NGE is about the characters. If you focus on the plot and let that drag you down, you missed the point." You've heard it before because that's really the case.
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Mar 14, 2014 22:50
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NikkolasKing posted:No offense meant to you but I've heard that excuse before. "NGE is about the characters. If you focus on the plot and let that drag you down, you missed the point." But they wouldn't constantly be talking about Adam and Lilith and Lance of whatever and all that stuff if it was truly unimportant I'm pretty sure the writer thought he was putting together a nice complex storyline but in the end it just comes off as convoluted and badly told. It's not an excuse, it's the truth. Evangelion's plot was improvised; they took each previous episode's script as a springboard and decided what to do next on a weekly basis. Early drafts have stuff like the Evas being artifacts left behind by a previous human civilization that got wiped out by their own technology, all kinds of crazy poo poo that flat-out contradicts where they eventually took the series. The only real constant is the intent to use Shinji and Misato as POV characters, which they mostly stuck to, aside from a handful of cryptic scenes that said characters wouldn't have understood much better than we do. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Mar 14, 2014 |
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Mar 14, 2014 22:51
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For me it's like what True Detective just went through. The actual plot isn't bad (personally I find it really fun), it just isn't as thought through as the characters and no amount of wishing is gonna change that. I mean feel free to enjoy Eva for the plot, just know that the hardcores and Lit majors who have already picked the bones clean are getting off on it on another level.
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Mar 14, 2014 22:54
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I like eva because its really loving insane and surreal
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Mar 14, 2014 23:02
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I'm hardly in a position to question everyone's enjoyment of the show. Even if I had understood it better, I wouldn't be such a jerk as to say you're wrong for liking it. I just really didn't care for it and I freely admit that is not entirely the anime's fault. I went in expecting it to live up to all the hype and, for me, it did not. I've also been hearing for years that it's comparable to one of my favorite video games, Xenogears. Someone on this very board said Xenogears was "bad Evangelion fanfiction" not too long ago. And yet after watching NGE, I can hardly think of two things more different than it and Gears so that was another way my expectations were perhaps a bit colored. I guess I'm saying that I freely admit that my lack of enjoyment is probably due more to me than to the show.
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Mar 14, 2014 23:04
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^^I think you're right that there's a lot of talk about evangelion about how it's a super important show in anime or that it's the best ever and also the fact that it's very polarizing. It's kind of a shame I guess but it does generate discussion in this thread when someone like yourself wants to talk about the show. Eva was great because I was the same age as Shinji when I watched it like six years ago. SHISHKABOB fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Mar 14, 2014 |
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Mar 14, 2014 23:05
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Yeah, even having said all that in the series+EoE's defense, it does get kind of tired after a while. Part of why I love Rebuild so much is that it shifts the emphasis away from "what do these characters feel" and into "what do these characters do under extreme pressure," along with all the stuff about guilt and responsibility. Series Shinji has a few moments of heroism and decisive action but he gets so horribly passive by EoE, while Rebuild Shinji is even more thoroughly manipulated but puts up more of a fight against it, too.
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Mar 14, 2014 23:06
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Well I didn't think NGE was a complete wash. I enjoyed some parts of it and all the AU stuff means I can at least continue delving into the franchise and perhaps find something I fully enjoy. Have any of you read the various manga, like Campus Apocalypse or the manga version of the anime?
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Mar 16, 2014 20:50
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Every single Evangelion manga is pretty awful. Even the official one since it completely shits the bed on the ending. The only Eva AU stuff I've ever really enjoyed is the SRW stuff and even that is kind of dumb, just in a fun SRW way.
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Mar 16, 2014 21:14
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Read Re-Take  
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Mar 16, 2014 21:26
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NikkolasKing posted:all the AU stuff means I can at least continue delving into the franchise and perhaps find something I fully enjoy. Up until the last parts, the official manga was excellent and in some ways better than the anime. But by the time we were getting maybe two chapters a year I don't think Sadamoto really cared any more, or had at least lost the idea of the series.
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Mar 16, 2014 21:40
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Intel&Sebastian posted:For me it's like what True Detective just went through. The actual plot isn't bad (personally I find it really fun), it just isn't as thought through as the characters and no amount of wishing is gonna change that. I mean feel free to enjoy Eva for the plot, just know that the hardcores and Lit majors who have already picked the bones clean are getting off on it on another level. It's always interesting to hear the different reasons why some people enjoy EVA. Especially the people who read into it, then the people that read FAR too deep into it.
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Mar 16, 2014 22:35
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Yeah to me, Eva is a giant robot show with the driving core idea being that the main character doesn't actually want to be driving around a giant loving robot destroying everything and that it's not fun and heroic like your average robot hero story, it's traumatic. Then the rest is just a thematic and logical outward run from there with some japan-ness, and christian imagery/references being mixed up with military imagery/references.
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Mar 16, 2014 22:50
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Eva to me is like a big bang of sorts; a combination of a ton of different elements to make a crazy ride. Anno's issues and depression, bad budget and a story whose grand revelation was its own separate can of worms. I enjoy the show greatly, and when I find someone who doesn't I'm not really sure why. I just had my college anime club (  ) watch the original series, and I watched as a bunch of 18 year olds became fascinated by a very dated show. If they can like something from 1995, including EoE on top of it, the franchise did something right. \/ \/
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Mar 17, 2014 02:50
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A large reason (IMO) why it's not as accepted is because most people looking to watch a show are not looking for a realistic look at what depression is and why hosed up things happening to a kid does not end in miracles and victory like Gurren Lagann. You have those same people that called Simon post-Episode 8, Eren, etc. also to be "too emo" or whatever. It's just not what people are looking for in their free time.
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Mar 17, 2014 03:08
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I'm not opposed to heroic friendship and justice shows. I fuckin' love Da Garn or Iron Leaguer or whatever. I just also enjoy movies/films/shows about hosed up people doing hosed up things because they're hosed up.
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Mar 17, 2014 03:18
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ImpAtom posted:I'm not opposed to heroic friendship and justice shows. I fuckin' love Da Garn or Iron Leaguer or whatever. I just also enjoy movies/films/shows about hosed up people doing hosed up things because they're hosed up. It really makes you appreciate happy endings after watching something as emotionally draining as Evangelion. Not every story needs to go the same way (hero eventually triumphs and everything ends well), it's just interesting and fun to see something little different from time to time.
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Mar 17, 2014 03:26
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Franz von Dada posted:It really makes you appreciate happy endings after watching something as emotionally draining as Evangelion. Now imagine how satisfying it'll be if Rebuild manages a well-written and happy ending for this psychotic episode of a cast.
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Mar 17, 2014 03:34
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Spiritus Nox posted:Now imagine how satisfying it'll be if Rebuild manages a well-written and happy ending for this psychotic episode of a cast. Hahahahahaha... 
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Mar 17, 2014 03:37
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Spiritus Nox posted:Now imagine how satisfying it'll be if Rebuild manages a well-written and happy ending for this psychotic episode of a cast. I won't get fooled again. 
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Mar 17, 2014 03:39
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Spiritus Nox posted:Now imagine how satisfying it'll be if Rebuild manages a well-written and happy ending for this psychotic episode of a cast. Well, that's basically what the Utena movie is. I'd like to see it happen with these characters as well, but we'll see.
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Mar 17, 2014 03:40
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The end of the third rebuild movie was pretty "good" in my opinion. Shinji's not stuck under is dad at the end and instead he's off with Asuka who seems to be a bit more well off emotionally and mentally at this point.
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Mar 17, 2014 03:48
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Spiritus Nox posted:Now imagine how satisfying it'll be if Rebuild manages a well-written and happy ending for this psychotic episode of a cast. It will be the happiest ending possible. There will be an awesome mecha fight where Shinji defeats the bad guys in a flashy mecha fashion, all the good guys live and the world returns back to normal. and then Shinji wakes up on the beach next to a red ocean.
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Mar 17, 2014 03:50
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cafel posted:Hahahahahaha... Key word here was if. Never said it was likely, just that it would be satisfying.
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Mar 17, 2014 06:00
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Franz von Dada posted:Read Re-Take Hey now, Re-Take had some nice moments that would fit right in with the kind of crassness you see in Rebuild. Shinji straight up killing Kaworu the moment he sets foot in the show? Ambushing the Eva Series with the positron rifle? It wouldn't have taken much of a different twist for Rebuild to end up like that. Plus the art is good. (There's a version without the disturbing porn parts out there I heard)
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Mar 18, 2014 01:03
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SHISHKABOB posted:The end of the third rebuild movie was pretty "good" in my opinion. Shinji's not stuck under is dad at the end and instead he's off with Asuka who seems to be a bit more well off emotionally and mentally at this point. I still don't think that's Asuka. There's no reason for anyone other than Kaworu to know what "Lilin" is and she just namedrops it like it ain't no thang.
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Mar 18, 2014 01:06
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BiggestOrangeTree posted:Hey now, Re-Take had some nice moments that would fit right in with the kind of crassness you see in Rebuild. Shinji straight up killing Kaworu the moment he sets foot in the show? Ambushing the Eva Series with the positron rifle? It wouldn't have taken much of a different twist for Rebuild to end up like that. Plus the art is good. (There's a version without the disturbing porn parts out there I heard) Are you saying that's not the version you read, then? 
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Mar 18, 2014 01:07
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Level Slide posted:I still don't think that's Asuka. There's no reason for anyone other than Kaworu to know what "Lilin" is and she just namedrops it like it ain't no thang. Ehh. Ritsuko abandoned Gendo and presumably spilled all kinds of secrets, as evidenced by the level of tech necessary to create the Wunder in the first place. It's not totally implausible that she would have known that term and passed it on to the rest of the crew.
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Mar 18, 2014 01:12
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BiggestOrangeTree posted:Hey now, Re-Take had some nice moments that would fit right in with the kind of crassness you see in Rebuild. Shinji straight up killing Kaworu the moment he sets foot in the show? Ambushing the Eva Series with the positron rifle? It wouldn't have taken much of a different twist for Rebuild to end up like that. Plus the art is good. (There's a version without the disturbing porn parts out there I heard) Re-take is really loving funny when it goes full fanfic
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Mar 18, 2014 01:21
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Level Slide posted:I still don't think that's Asuka. There's no reason for anyone other than Kaworu to know what "Lilin" is and she just namedrops it like it ain't no thang. It haaas been 15 years or whatever so I mean who knows what they figured out in the meantime.
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Mar 18, 2014 02:04
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Edit: Wrong thread, nothing to see here folks.
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Mar 18, 2014 02:16
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I am deeply confused by 2.22. Shinji was totally understandable at every point of his decision making process. He threw an understandable 'tantrum'. He felt a companionable bond with Rei and an attraction to Asuka. He felt close to maybe 6 odd people in the world and the instrument that was an extension of him hurt one horribly. People still talk about how he was running away and being a coward. I don't get it, other than a holdover from the original series. For a 14 year old I think turning away is a decent response and is in some ways brave, because he is defying his father and the expectations of people like Ritsuko. I'll watch the others when there is an English dub because I think Jap voice actors sound like shrill little women or rapists.
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Mar 25, 2014 18:02
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I think Shinji acts totally reasonable in the original series too (until he has like completely lost it during EoE), but people still hate him because apparently 14 year olds aren't allowed to act like 14 year olds. The kid gets guilt-tripped into fighting gigantic lovecraftian demons with a bigass scary looking killing machine he has never seen or used before during the very first episode and people don't feel sympathy for him?  Christ.
Franz von Dada fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Mar 25, 2014 |
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Mar 25, 2014 18:41
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Franz von Dada posted:I think Shinji acts totally reasonable in the original series too (until he has like completely lost it during EoE), but people still hate him because apparently 14 year olds aren't allowed to act like 14 year olds.
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Mar 25, 2014 19:33
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Thanks to every other giant robot show people had been trained to think that the first thing that would cross a 14 year-old's mind when told to pilot a giant robot against a deadly unknown enemy that will probably end in his death is 'gently caress yeah!' So him going 'gently caress no' was like crazy talk, what are you some sort of wuss?
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Mar 25, 2014 20:13
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It's not just giant robot shows. We're conditioned by macho/hypermasculine tropes that pervade Japanese and Western fiction alike. We expect the "hero" to display an affinity with violence and danger. We expect him to demonstrate his masculinity by selflessly, single-handedly slaughtering his enemies, at which point his love interest will finally reward him with sex. In Evangelion, a meek, frightened child has to climb back inside his mother before he's strong enough to fight the monsters, which causes his love interests to despise him, die, and/or end the world.
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Mar 26, 2014 02:35
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God drat I would like even an announcement for an announcement for news on the 4th movie at this point. A turtle covered in molasses has lapped the drat studio already.
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Mar 26, 2014 06:58
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Wachter posted:It's not just giant robot shows. We're conditioned by macho/hypermasculine tropes that pervade Japanese and Western fiction alike. We expect the "hero" to display an affinity with violence and danger. We expect him to demonstrate his masculinity by selflessly, single-handedly slaughtering his enemies, at which point his love interest will finally reward him with sex. I rewatched Psycho the other day. I'm suggesting nothing one way or the other, but it popped into my head when I read you post. It's like Norman Bates is both of the things you described.
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Mar 26, 2014 17:38
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Shinjobi posted:God drat I would like even an announcement for an announcement for news on the 4th movie at this point. A turtle covered in molasses has lapped the drat studio already. They're publishing info about the 4th Eva film on the day MGSV is released on PC. So don't hold your breath. ----------------
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Mar 26, 2014 21:46
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