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Errant Gin Monks posted:Thanks a lot you guys for mentioning Warbreaker and it's tie in with WoR. I spent last night up until 2 am going through the avalanche of the last 80 pages of the book. You all suck. I just read Elantris, got the last copy the library had which was falling apart in the spine. Then the annual library book sale was the other day, and I found TWO copies in much better condition being sold, which were ex-library copies. For some reason the library had decided to keep the falling apart one and sell the good ones. WTF, library? Elantris is good, I was keeping my eyes open for Hoid/Wit in disguise and it turns out he was straight up named Hoid, and I was looking for something more subtle.
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Mar 21, 2014 21:05
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About 40% through WOR, liking it but is Brandon actively trolling with his 'tempest' use now? One page even had tempest 3 times on it.
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Mar 21, 2014 21:22
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Lobsterpillar posted:I just read Elantris, got the last copy the library had which was falling apart in the spine. Then the annual library book sale was the other day, and I found TWO copies in much better condition being sold, which were ex-library copies. For some reason the library had decided to keep the falling apart one and sell the good ones. WTF, library? If I had to guess, it would be that the book isn't checked out enough anymore to justify three copies worth of shelf space, but they didn't try and sell the lovely ones because people are much less willing to purchase a lovely falling apart book.
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Mar 21, 2014 21:27
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Fair to Midland posted:About 40% through WOR, liking it but is Brandon actively trolling with his 'tempest' use now? One page even had tempest 3 times on it. Noticing when authors overuse a particular word is awful, because you'll never not notice it from then on. I went on a LE Modesitt Jr (the imager series in particular) binge a few months back and noticed he used the word "sardonically" practically every page. It's possible they use a word so much that it really distracts the reader and brings them out of the book. I always wonder why their editors don't point out to them how they are overusing something. It's particularly bad when the word isn't really used in everyday language (tempest is a fairly common word, but I'd never heard someone use the term sardonic before Modesitt).
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Mar 21, 2014 21:51
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Shakugan posted:Noticing when authors overuse a particular word is awful, because you'll never not notice it from then on. I went on a LE Modesitt Jr (the imager series in particular) binge a few months back and noticed he used the word "sardonically" practically every page. It's possible they use a word so much that it really distracts the reader and brings them out of the book. Brandon even admitted he realized he used it too much back when WOT readers were busting his rear end for it, so I'm surprised to still see it so much.
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Mar 21, 2014 21:54
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Blind Melon posted:He also said that Taln's being the Herald of the same name was an assumption, which could be misdirection or a clue. Either way, something is going on there. Huh. I was re-reading the epigraphs from the Stormlight wiki and found this one quote:“The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me.” which I though supported that he's Taln the herald come back from purgatory, but mad because the others weren't their to support him, though I guess it just means that this particular guy isn't Taln, so maybe he's one of Odium's agents? Also, the epigraphs from book 1 are starting to make a lot more sense/These two stood out: quote:“Though I was due for dinner in Veden City that night, I insisted upon visiting Kholinar to speak with Tivbet. The tariffs through Urithiru were growing quite unreasonable. By then, the so-called Radiants had already begun to show their true nature.” and quote:“He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!” Kaladin? Not sure about the crown part though Narmi fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Mar 21, 2014 |
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Mar 21, 2014 22:02
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In reference to the epigraph: “He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!”. It's probably relevant that the signs of house Kholin are the tower & the crown.
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Mar 21, 2014 22:34
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Narmi posted:which I though supported that he's Taln the herald come back from purgatory, but mad because the others weren't their to support him, though I guess it just means that this particular guy isn't Taln, so maybe he's one of Odium's agents? What if all the Heralds are agents of Odium, and finding this out is what caused the Recreance?
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Mar 21, 2014 22:34
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Why would the Heralds, who were given the Honorblades, which are basically piece of Honor be agents of Odium? My guess is that there is actually something about how the Radiants opperate or get their power that is fundamentally incompatible with the first oath that they all share. Using stormlight is probably somehow destructive, or it's a finite resource.
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Mar 21, 2014 23:26
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Lift should get pewter or iron feruchemy to help use her awesomness.
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Mar 21, 2014 23:41
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NecroMonster posted:Why would the Heralds, who were given the Honorblades, which are basically piece of Honor be agents of Odium? It could just be that once the Desolation is over, a bunch of magic superheroes decided that they didn't want to stop being in charge. We know the Windrunners walked away from the whole thing, which would fit them actually being, y'know, honorable and not taking advantage.
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Mar 21, 2014 23:49
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NecroMonster posted:Why would the Heralds, who were given the Honorblades, which are basically piece of Honor be agents of Odium? The total pool of power of each of the Shards is quite explicitly a fixed-quantity yet infinitely renewed resource. We also haven't really seen any climatic variation in power of the Highstorms. One thing I'm somewhat troubled by with the Taln thing is that Nalan, the supposed Herald of Justice, is basically exemplifying the antithesis of Journey Before Destination. He's going around killing potential Surgebinders, commenting that they would bring the Desolation, but only if he's found that they're guilty of some crime or other whether or not such a crime seems to otherwise justify execution (Ym didn't intentionally commit murder, for example, and Lift's a burglar at worst). Are all of the Heralds similarly twisted at this point, even if they're the real Heralds? Is it setting up that our new Radiants have to kill the former Heralds and become the new Heralds to renew the Oathpact? VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 21, 2014 23:58
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NecroMonster posted:Why would the Heralds, who were given the Honorblades, which are basically piece of Honor be agents of Odium? Re: Recreance I think we have to think about what Desolations are. What if the Desolations start not when Odium ramps up his spren but when the Heralds go to Roshar. We know that the Knights Radiant weren't founded by the Heralds but occurred spontaneously because spren started copying what Honour did by empowering the Knights Radiant. We've seen that shards become dominated by their intent. Looks like the fight on Roshar was between Odium and Honour. So whats the Oathpact? It seems crazy sadisitic, between Desolations the Heralds have to chill on hell planet getting tortured by someone, we guess Odium. The heralds mention the Oathpact holds while one of them holds to it. What if the Oathpact is, no harm comes to Roshar while the Heralds remain on Odiums planet, but the second they tap out, everyone is sent to Roshar and fights until they die. Honouring your oaths while enduring hate. We might also see a parallel in this with Honour and Cultivation spren being active on the Physical plane empowering the Odium-spren to also act out. I can see the Knights freaking out if they found out their spren being around causes the Odium-spren to be empowered to mess the world up.
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Mar 22, 2014 00:01
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api call girl posted:The total pool of power of each of the Shards is quite explicitly a fixed-quantity yet infinitely renewed resource. We also haven't really seen any climatic variation in power of the Highstorms. The Heralds were already pretty messed up when we see them in the prologue of the first book. Being seemingly tortured for a 1000 years a few times will do that to you. The fact that they lasted as many desolations as they did shows that they were probably amazingly great men at first. I've always though that the Radiants abandoning their duties was due in some way to them discovering that the Heralds abandoned theirs.
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Mar 22, 2014 00:15
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Ethiser posted:I've always though that the Radiants abandoning their duties was due in some way to them discovering that the Heralds abandoned theirs. I really doubt that. Everything we've thus seen of the Radiant's bonds makes it come off as a super deep and personal thing. Now the Radiant's might not have been aware of what forsaking their oaths would do to their spren, but I'll bet they did know, and felt it necessary anyway.
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Mar 22, 2014 00:56
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NecroMonster posted:I really doubt that. Everything we've thus seen of the Radiant's bonds makes it come off as a super deep and personal thing. Now the Radiant's might not have been aware of what forsaking their oaths would do to their spren, but I'll bet they did know, and felt it necessary anyway. I don't think it was only due to that but the Heralds abandoning the oathpact definitely had something to do with it. Ethiser fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Mar 22, 2014 |
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Mar 22, 2014 01:03
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Walh Hara posted:In reference to the epigraph: “He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!”. It's probably relevant that the signs of house Kholin are the tower & the crown. I'm assuming that on top of that the fallen title is that of the Knights Radiant, or Bondsmith, the Tower is Urithiru, and the spear is Kaladin himself. Alternatively, Dalinar is the Tower (since he represents Urithiru), Elhokar is the crown, and Kaladin is the spear. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I'm sure kaladin doesn't have anything to do with the spear, because that's a bit obvious for Sanderson.
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Mar 22, 2014 01:47
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If the Oathpact really is a deal of some sort with Odium that 'You can't destroy the world as long as we can endure whatever eternal torture you can concoct, and when it's too much for us and we have to come up for a breather you get to kill almost everyone on earth', this world is hella hosed up and I really can't blame the Heralds for giving up, even if it meant leaving one of them behind.'
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Mar 22, 2014 05:03
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Wolpertinger posted:If the Oathpact really is a deal of some sort with Odium that 'You can't destroy the world as long as we can endure whatever eternal torture you can concoct, and when it's too much for us and we have to come up for a breather you get to kill almost everyone on earth', this world is hella hosed up and I really can't blame the Heralds for giving up, even if it meant leaving one of them behind.' Oh, and if the heralds don't go back to Damnation in a timely fashion, a new Desolation starts immediately.
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Mar 22, 2014 05:30
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How feasible do you think it would be, if Sanderson got permission from Jordan's estate, that he could retcon wheel of time into a shardworld? Creation/Oblivion? It could work.
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Mar 22, 2014 14:53
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Are you drunk?
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Mar 22, 2014 15:16
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mossyfisk posted:Are you drunk? Not even high, which may be the problem…
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Mar 22, 2014 15:33
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Brandon: Are the Heralds aware that Taln is back? Brandon: Uh, you’re implying that this person actually is Taln. [The smile on Brandon’s face at this moment was the best, most excruciatingly awful smile ever. And we thought Peter was a tease.] Which is not guaranteed. It’s not guaranteed. However, the return of the Voidbringers does indeed indicate to them, in their mind, that he would have returned.
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Mar 22, 2014 19:54
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I just have a really hard time seeing that. It seems like a really pointless red herring. Love parallelogram time: Kaladin's headed back home to try to save his family. His old girlfriend Laral's probably still there, likely wed to Roshone by now. I'm not sure Vorinism has built-in anything for divorce--given what happened to Brightlord Davar's second wife, I rather doubt it. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Mar 23, 2014 |
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Mar 23, 2014 02:24
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api call girl posted:I just have a really hard time seeing that. It seems like a really pointless red herring.
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Mar 23, 2014 02:59
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Tunicate posted:I'm thinking maybe it's that taln has been possesssed Yeah but he hasn't done anything or even been recognized by anyone in any real way (no, that top secret organization doesn't count in my book). It's not very justifiable. Let me try to expand on that. In the typical he-isn't-who-he-claims-to-be storyline, Dalinar and Elkohar would have paraded him out in front of the public as the returned Herald, except in the story we got his mind's lost, Dalinar's trying to rebuild the Knights Radiant by mistakenly putting Amaram at its head, so there's a loving jumble of storytelling that rightfully caused Brandon to avoid having anything serious to do with "Taln" at this juncture. Dalinar just thinks he's an interesting madman and used him to entrap Amaram, not much more, and has so far avoided even thinking about him beyond that in his POV sections. There's just no groundwork laid so far for having a pretend-Herald step up, and having Amaram recognize him as a Herald means very little given that Amaram's recently discredited and is unlikely to play a part near the center of the Good Guys power structure in the near or distant future. What's interesting here is that the Ghostbloods are interested in what "Taln" has to say, and had posted someone near to keep an eye on him. That someone, Iyatil, felt it was important enough to blow her cover to try to assassinate Amaram in the meantime. So it still doesn't say anything about "Taln". VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Mar 23, 2014 |
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Mar 23, 2014 03:09
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api call girl posted:Yeah but he hasn't done anything or even been recognized by anyone in any real way (no, that top secret organization doesn't count in my book). It's not very justifiable. Still, the fact of the matter is that He doesn't have Taln's Honorblade, the defining thing that makes a Herald a Herald and Wit did not take it according to Word of God. Something IS up, but we barely know enough about Honorblades, Heralds, the Oathpact, Taln, or Braize to really make a theory.
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Mar 23, 2014 03:48
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Uhhh so I picked up Mistborn a while back and now that I'm about a quarter of the way through I've just got to ask... Does it get better? I mean I like the premise (prophesy fucks everyone over and erstwhile hero decides to unleash ~thousand years of darkness~ so let's Ocean's 11 the poo poo out of him) but my god this is just annoying: Mistborn, Page 122, discussing how to bring down the Final Empire posted:Kelsier nodded. "We'll have to fake the shipping records, just in case." This after Kelsier spent a chapter running around like a Deus Ex protagonist murdering the poo poo out of about a dozen noblemen, and the prologue where he kills a noblemen and apparently twenty other dudes (though it's okay because he was ~super evil~ and a pedophile with all the subtlety of Baron Harkonnen.) That's the issue, really: Sanderson doesn't seem very subtle. I am only a quarter of a way through one book, but so far the dude's laying it on pretty thick with how ~evil~ the bad guys are (though I did appreciate the line about "acceptable" skaa casualties in the coming rebellion) and who everyone is. Maybe I'm being set up for a twist another 200 pages down the line where everything I thought I knew was bullshit but do I have to be reminded every other page that Vin is sneaky (or at least she tries; so far she's been noticed by a Steel Inquisitor, suspected by her former boss of being a traitor and noticed by Kelsier snooping outside her door), that Kelsier likes murderin' dudes who may in some distant way shape or form contributed to the Final Empire, that the minor characters have some not particularly interesting trait associated with them (Yeden doesn't seem quite up to leading a glorious revolution, Breeze is kind of a ponce, Ham...'s name is Hammond, etc)? By the Lord Ruler that would get old fast.
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Mar 23, 2014 04:45
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I think most of Mistborn is either murdering the gently caress out of nobles in some way or another anyway, as well as Vin's infiltration where most of the nobility gets a bit more character? Like, it doesn't ever become subtle really. But I'd say it gets better further in, sure, particularly when you see a bit more of what the Lord Ruler really is? edit: Most of the supporting cast don't really get that much screentime except for... Breeze and Ham I think? I don't know, it's been too long.
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Mar 23, 2014 05:18
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I'm not looking for (I need to read more the first author I think of as subtle is George "Reek Reek it rhymes with Freak" Martin) but it almost feels like it's insulting my intelligence. I don't really need to be reminded who every character is every other page. But if it gets better further in I can push on with that hope instead of just looking for opportunities to make fun of the characters. Thanks.
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Mar 23, 2014 05:24
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I think it gets better but I can't really confirm it. I just don't really remember much about the characters other than Vin and a couple others, one way or another. It's been a few years though. Think I'm gonna re-read it again, see how it holds up. edit: It does have some great action setpieces I remember though, plus there are a few really subtle things most readers miss going through it. SerSpook fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Mar 23, 2014 |
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Mar 23, 2014 05:38
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HaitianDivorce posted:Uhhh so I picked up Mistborn a while back and now that I'm about a quarter of the way through I've just got to ask... Does it get better? It has been a while since I read it, and I'll probably have to re-read it. Many of the minor characters get more depth/screentime by the second+third book. Vin stays on as the major character, but you get more of Sazed and co.
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Mar 23, 2014 05:46
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I wonder if Taravangian may have Gotten to the real Taln first and replaced him with someone he tortured into crazyness. Gets the "voidbringers are back" message out but lets Tarvangian keep the real guy and more importantly his honorblade. Plus the diagram could probably predict not only the reappearance of a herald, but there there is only one left and where he would show up.
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Mar 23, 2014 06:21
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HaitianDivorce posted:I'm not looking for (I need to read more the first author I think of as subtle is George "Reek Reek it rhymes with Freak" Martin) but it almost feels like it's insulting my intelligence. I don't really need to be reminded who every character is every other page. I always felt that the writing in Mistborn felt like it was in some weird middle ground between YA and Adult. Not quite one or the other. It has some of the problems of YA (everything being spelled out), but if you can look past that the structure, world, and overall story work quite well.
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Mar 23, 2014 08:49
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Some things in Mistborn are way too obvious, but there were certain plot elements that caught me off guard but were then blatantly obvious when I reread the series.
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Mar 23, 2014 08:55
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HaitianDivorce posted:Uhhh so I picked up Mistborn a while back and now that I'm about a quarter of the way through I've just got to ask... Does it get better? I plowed through all four mistborn books this month for the first time and really enjoyed them. It always gets better near the end of the book. Although I liked book two the least.
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Mar 23, 2014 09:01
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Yeah, the secondary characters have a lot more time through the rest of the series (if you've not yet finished the first one, I won't tell you why). But Ham's thing is that he's a philosopher, Breeze's is that he's secretly a nobleman, stuff like that. But yeah, as with any epic fantasy focused on one or two main protagonists, the supporting cast do tend to fade a bit into the background.
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Mar 23, 2014 10:14
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Question about the parshmen (possible plot hole): Since parshmen don't have mate form, how do they reproduce? Parshmen are unawakened parshendi, right? They're stated to be similar to Parshendi dull form, anyway.
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Mar 23, 2014 10:54
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Strumpy posted:I always felt that the writing in Mistborn felt like it was in some weird middle ground between YA and Adult. Not quite one or the other. It has some of the problems of YA (everything being spelled out), but if you can look past that the structure, world, and overall story work quite well. Sanderson has a lot of great ideas, and he's pretty good at world building, but he's not much of a wordsmith. I enjoyed WoR, but I don't feel like his prose has gotten better over time, he tends toward pedantic explanation and his obsession with "witty" dialog between certain characters can really gently caress up the pacing of his books. He also has this theme of building characters that have like one hangup that often defies any sense or context, and just makes them come across as kind of one dimensional. Kaladin being a fantastic example, here. Yeah, we get it, you hate light eyes. But the dude seriously can't take a dump without seething with his hatred for light eyes.
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Mar 23, 2014 13:43
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Just finished Elantris and it was certainly his first book. A lot of things just sort of happened and I don't know that Raoden's solving the puzzle of the shoad was ever really earned so much as it had to happen for plot progression. Overall I enjoyed, as I do all of Sanderson's work, but it definitely left something to be desired. Not to mention it was a difficult to get through the early parts of the book just based on all the nothing that was happening. I'm a little agitated that didn't have a slightly more important role. Seriously, what was he even doing there? Unrelated but also curious, why did Vin blow off meeting Hoid in Hero of Ages? Sanderson says it was something Hoid did but he was only whistling.
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