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Promontory posted:How and why are the aliens airdropping onto their own ship? Catapults. Because they can.
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Mar 29, 2014 12:49
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Promontory posted:How and why are the aliens airdropping onto their own ship? Just off-screen: giant cannons that fire aliens into the sky so they can fall back to earth (or their own ship, as it may be). quote:At 18:30 in the video a sectoid drops into a thin man cloud and is poisoned. Can all aliens be poisoned? It probably isn't a common occurrence in the single player campaign, but might be a fun trick in multiplayer mode. There's a specialty grenade just for that! At least in EW. It sucks and I doubt anybody's ever used it, poison is nowhere near worth bothering with when you could be carrying a flashbang or a normal grenade instead.
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Mar 29, 2014 12:51
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Jade, you mentioned in the video something about a stream drawing that you'd put in the thread? Anyway, having never played the game myself, the first time I saw Gankplank it looked really really impressive, and I'm almost a little disappointed to hear that so much of it is recycled assets. Still a neat early-game setpiece though. Love that skybox.
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Mar 29, 2014 14:00
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/accidental doublepost/
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Mar 29, 2014 14:00
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The main time that I find use for the flamethrower is in encoder-defense [REDACTED] missions. Roasting five or six [REDACTED] soldiers is not so hard when they're all rushing a 5x5 area, and usually sends them out into good positions for a good single-rocket-penta/sextakill if they live at all.
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Mar 29, 2014 15:21
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Travic posted:Also a quick and dirty gif just for you Guava. This needs to be linked in the OP, for the reference in Final Illbleed.
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Mar 29, 2014 15:21
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Volty posted:Jade, you mentioned in the video something about a stream drawing that you'd put in the thread? I forgot! I was streaming Long Live The Queen. 
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Mar 29, 2014 15:35
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Jade Star posted:I forgot! It wouldn't surprise me if this was an actual way to die in that game.
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Mar 29, 2014 15:40
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quote:Over all I'd say the stronger choice is ITZ. But this call comes down to play style and experience. Double Tap is great for emergency situations where you really need to pile damage on a target in cover that will have a good opportunity to harm you after the end of your turn. I was arguing in favor of Double Tap over ITZ earlier in the thread (but to still take one of each) and I absolutely agree now. ITZ is for all out offense. Double Tap is for when that offense fails and something absolutely needs to die.
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Mar 29, 2014 15:51
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Jade Star posted:I forgot! I used to be devoutly in the double tap side. Always figured the sure thing was better than the chance thing. Then I finally tried ITZ, and against enemies at the end of the game, it's amazing. By that point I have enough explosives that enemy cover is a complete non-issue, so I can activate a squad or even TWO and then rocket their cover away. Then they all die horribly to a plasma sniper.
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Mar 29, 2014 16:00
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The first time I went into that mission I had no idea what was going on so I made a post about it in the games thread. I was only 2 months in and still had a rag tag gang of dudes, I was able to get them both laser rifles and armour by that point... but that's mainly because I don't own Enemy Within so I couldn't get Mec's.  Long story short: only my Sniper survived and in the end it was him against that Muton and Thin Man in the final room.
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Mar 29, 2014 16:06
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I remember watching that stream where you did this mission for the first time, and the Douchedisc came through the door and Deathblossom'd three of your five guys to death. Good times.  Also, I caught a couple typos. Jade Star posted:toward the breakpoing of a LPR threatening to take them out in one hit. Jade Star posted:In The Zone That second one should clearly be a plus.  Basically, what happens is that on an overwatch ITZ, it applies an action credit for the shot, but since it didn't cost you an action in the turn it happened, the credit just sort of hangs there to be used next round. The glitchiness can seem annoying at first when you have to try to use an action on them twice or whatever, but once you learn to expect it, you can get a free reload every time it happens. I suppose it would be a minus if you don't want to use it that way (or have a goldfish memory  ), but on a soldier that can burn through half their ammo in a turn, it's a pretty nice perk.If you need a second minus, perhaps mention that ITZ starts training you to feed even more kills to the sniper than they would already get. Tony White may be an amazing kill-stealer, but he's got nothing on a well-utilized ITZ sniper. Also, Double Tap isn't an emergency situations thing. It's not like you can save it until you need it (unless you just don't fire at all, but that's silly). No, Double Tap is something you use every time it's available, to tag down tough enemies for your other soldiers to get easier kills on, or to make double sure that a particular could-be-troublesome enemy eats dirt right the gently caress now regardless of whatever your other soldiers might be able to do to it. It's a straight-up fixed boost to your team's damage output. Using it as anything else is underusing it. Double Tap is also, after a fashion, a mobility/defense skill. (I know it sounds crazy, but hear me out.) Every shot the sniper lands is one less shot that someone else who can move this turn has to make. A sniper rifle will do as much damage as a Heavy's weapon (unless HEAT ammo is involved), and that Heavy can use the action he didn't have to take to move whenever he wants to thanks to Bullet Swarm. Heavies are almost always the slowest member on the team for me (my snipers will usually have a little extra movement by sheer luck, and then there's Archangel or Ghost Armor to add more mobility), so this helps them keep up with the team because they don't have to be Bullet Swarm-ing every single turn there's an enemy in sight. People in the back of the formation can also be moved toward the front with a dash instead of the move-and-shoot they would have had to take otherwise. MECs can obviously benefit too, but they have so much mobility already (especially punchyMECs) that they don't really need the boost. You could, however, use the extra action you end up with as an Overwatch for defensive purposes if you're not ready to advance yet. Action economy is a big part of this game, and Double Tap plays into that aspect just as well as ITZ does (if not better, over the course of a full game). Personally, I like ITZ better than Double Tap because it just feels better to get those times when you can go NOPE to a chryssalid spawn, or murder half a dozen airdrops in a turn like they didn't even exist in the first place, but goddamn Double Tap is really loving useful too. Like Guava said in the video, if you run two snipers (more common before MECs became a thing, of course), having one of each on your team is a no-brainer. Even if you don't, having one of each sitting in the barracks for different kinds of missions is a good idea. Felinoid fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Mar 29, 2014 |
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Mar 29, 2014 16:23
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You can opt to end your turn with out using double tap. it doesn't have to be a use it every single time its available.
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Mar 29, 2014 16:25
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Jade Star posted:You can opt to end your turn with out using double tap. it doesn't have to be a use it every single time its available. No, you can opt to end your turn without firing twice. Double Tap gets used anyway and is then unavailable the next turn. Or did they fix that in EW?
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Mar 29, 2014 16:26
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I can't recall about that, but I do remember that Double Tap is actually bugged and will sometimes trigger when there are no remaining aliens in sight (usually, the game keeps it in reserve).quote:Also, Double Tap isn't an emergency situations thing. Based on the number of times I've locked down a sectopod then headshot another alien when my other units missed, I'm going to say yes it is. But then I play very slowly to let everyone's skills refresh.
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Mar 29, 2014 16:53
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RBA Starblade posted:I can't recall about that, but I do remember that Double Tap is actually bugged and will sometimes trigger when there are no remaining aliens in sight (usually, the game keeps it in reserve). Only sometimes? I guess I get really unlucky with that then, because it happens every bloody time for me.  E: Also I meant it's not just an emergency situations thing. It's still just as useful in an emergency as it is the rest of the time. Felinoid fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Mar 29, 2014 |
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Mar 29, 2014 17:14
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Felinoid posted:No, you can opt to end your turn without firing twice. Double Tap gets used anyway and is then unavailable the next turn. Or did they fix that in EW?
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Mar 29, 2014 17:18
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heenato posted:It does not get used if you don't take the second shot. The popup happens when I can only take one shot, and then the next turn I'm only allowed one shot when I've got two I could take. I consider that used. If they've fixed it in EW, or even in EU since the last time I encountered it (probably months ago, since I've been avoiding that kind of situation like the plague since the first time it happened), then good. I'm still going to keep using it whenever I've got two shots to free up more reliable actions, though. E: Hell, even if that was a one-time bug (and with this game that's certainly a possibility), I'm not trusting that it won't happen again.
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Mar 29, 2014 17:34
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The final slingshot mission is absolute MISERY without lasers and assaults with lightning reflexes. Its possible, but requires gratuitous overwatch hookery which is harder to do in EW and takes absolutely forever. It was very cathartic to see Jade have slingshot trigger late enough to have both, and bend this level over his knee.
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Mar 29, 2014 17:59
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Well, I actually don't know how it was in EU, since I only ever finished the game once without Enemy within, but I know that in enemy within, I've taken a shot with the sniper, had someone else kill the aliens then ended my turn. The sniper could double tap the turn afterwards.
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Mar 29, 2014 17:59
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Jade Star posted:In The Zone vs Double Tap One thing I don't understand about all the Colonel skill choices is: when the hell are you guys letting Colonels see the battlefield? For me, hitting Colonel means being put on the shelf in favor of a rookie (or at least a major; the point being somebody that can still use experience) until I figure out if you're psychic or not, and only taking you out after that for one of the following 3 cases: 1. Grinding psychic experience; 2. A particular plot mission; or 3. The final mission. I take it the rest of you let your Colonel snipers steal experience from people who desperately need it?
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Mar 29, 2014 18:56
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Another thing to consider with In The Zone vs Double Tap is that you only actually need 1 In The Zone Sniper. You should never need to do 2 In The Zone chains in the same turn, so if you run a second sniper it should probably be Double Tap for the reliability. Also, If you are running the second wave options, make sure you put In The Zone on your highest aim snipers. You really want to make sure you have a 100% chance to hit any target so you can ensure the chain keeps up. Even a small miss chance can result in a broken chain, and since In The Zone takes so much setup you probably wont be able to finish off all the enemies without your sniper. You may not miss that 95% chance often, but when you do it could leave around 6 aliens which will then proceed to wreck you. This is never a real problem if you run a high aim sniper with a scope. It's not exactly a negative because it is so easy to make happen, but you should be planning around that.
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Mar 29, 2014 18:57
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ulmont posted:One thing I don't understand about all the Colonel skill choices is: when the hell are you guys letting Colonels see the battlefield? On higher difficulties you don't always have the luxury, and/or if it comes down to a colonel kill vs taking potentially lethal enemy fire, I let the colonel take the shot. If I want to rank up some lower-rank guys I'll bring a couple colonels as insurance and then a swarm of people who need XP. Best balance of ranking up and "well this person needs to be dead now" in my view. every now and then you just need an ITZ archangel sniper to clear the map for you. e: also if you rank up properly there's no "desperately need" about it. I have, eh, let me see, 2 each colonel snipers, assaults, heavies, supports, and MEC troopers right now. One of those assaults and one of those heavies are psi. Who's stealing XP? This is something Enemy Within makes a lot easier than EU. EXALT covert ops are excellent training fields for LTs. Psion fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Mar 29, 2014 |
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Mar 29, 2014 19:02
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ulmont posted:One thing I don't understand about all the Colonel skill choices is: when the hell are you guys letting Colonels see the battlefield? For me, hitting Colonel means being put on the shelf in favor of a rookie (or at least a major; the point being somebody that can still use experience) until I figure out if you're psychic or not, and only taking you out after that for one of the following 3 cases: I do the same thing to get a lot of depth in my Barracks just in case, but I also tend to pull Colonels out of retirement for Battleships or Supply Barges. Anything below Lieutenant/Sergeant (depending on class) just does not go on those missions when I'm playing Classic.
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Mar 29, 2014 19:07
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ulmont posted:One thing I don't understand about all the Colonel skill choices is: when the hell are you guys letting Colonels see the battlefield? For me, hitting Colonel means being put on the shelf in favor of a rookie (or at least a major; the point being somebody that can still use experience) until I figure out if you're psychic or not, and only taking you out after that for one of the following 3 cases: Once I have a few colonels, I tend to bring one or 2 along just so that if something bad happens (something bad always happens) I can use them to dig myself out of the problem. Otherwise, yeah, I agree that they mostly don't get used other than those situations. E. Psion said it better than me
Minister Robathan fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Mar 29, 2014 |
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Mar 29, 2014 19:10
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At the end there, the reason James Dean didn't trigger an overwatch from the muton is because it never saw him! The exact mechanic of overwatch is "when you see someone move, shoot them when they leave the square you saw them in." James Dean wasn't visible until he took cover behind that doorway (the muton was just far enough away that it couldn't see you approach, you got lucky), so he couldn't shoot you. If James moved one more square, he would've been shot at. There are a few ways to break an overwatch, and shooting someone is not one of them. I wish it were, that'd be much easier, but it's not. You can break Overwatch by Supressing someone, making it one of the better uses of Supressing Fire, and you can break it with Flashbang grenades, also one of their better uses (their other good use is smacking a (enemy spoiler) berserker with it because it cuts their move speed in half, so you can kite them). There might be other ways to break overwatch, but those are the two I know that work. ulmont posted:One thing I don't understand about all the Colonel skill choices is: when the hell are you guys letting Colonels see the battlefield? For me, hitting Colonel means being put on the shelf in favor of a rookie (or at least a major; the point being somebody that can still use experience) until I figure out if you're psychic or not, and only taking you out after that for one of the following 3 cases: Colonels are babysitters. Send them with dudes who need XP, and use them when those dudes get in trouble to bail them out. gnome7 fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Mar 29, 2014 |
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Mar 29, 2014 19:10
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ulmont posted:One thing I don't understand about all the Colonel skill choices is: when the hell are you guys letting Colonels see the battlefield? For me, hitting Colonel means being put on the shelf in favor of a rookie (or at least a major; the point being somebody that can still use experience) until I figure out if you're psychic or not, and only taking you out after that for one of the following 3 cases: For me personally, I only play with my highest ranked dudes, Rookies exist to fill a spot when one of my real guys is in med bay, My starting squad in normally the same as my end squad +2, Death can not be allowed to happen.
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Mar 29, 2014 19:11
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You only get time off in my xcom if you get shot, otherwise you get to killing aliens. I usually end up with one and a half squads worth of soldiers, but I don't see the point of ranking people up if you're not going to use them. It isn't strictly optimal but it works.
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Mar 29, 2014 19:15
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Panboy posted:For me personally, I only play with my highest ranked dudes, Rookies exist to fill a spot when one of my real guys is in med bay, My starting squad in normally the same as my end squad +2, Death can not be allowed to happen. Doing this means that any loss could be crippling though. Somehow lose a Colonel Sniper? Oh poo poo, the run's hosed!
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Mar 29, 2014 19:18
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quote:Colonels are babysitters. Send them with dudes who need XP, and use them when those dudes get in trouble to bail them out. I use the SHIVs for that, and only when there are too many wounded from the a-team to field an effective squad. Actually, if I manage to get some fatalities late game, I'll just use plasma hover SHIVs the rest of the campaign; they're that good. They arguably make supports that don't grab revive and field medic obsolete. Suppression and CCS and they can fly and they can repair and they're accurate and they're got huge defense bonuses? And you can decrease their repair downtime, and increase their health and movement in the foundry? Hell yes! The only downside to SHIVs is you still can't color or name them, and if you're shiv heavy early then you're pretty hosed for the base defense. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Mar 29, 2014 |
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Mar 29, 2014 19:20
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Minister Robathan posted:Doing this means that any loss could be crippling though. Somehow lose a Colonel Sniper? Oh poo poo, the run's hosed! If you somehow managed to lose a colonel sniper, you wouldn't have a colonel sniper in the first place.
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Mar 29, 2014 19:20
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OwlFancier posted:If you somehow managed to lose a colonel sniper, you wouldn't have a colonel sniper in the first place. This is a rather stupid thing to say. A colonel sniper has died in the history of XCOM, try again with less hyperbole.
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Mar 29, 2014 19:30
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Peanut3141 posted:This is a rather stupid thing to say. A colonel sniper has died in the history of XCOM, try again with less hyperbole. I can't recall ever playing to the point where I've lost a colonel sniper. Considering how you kinda learn to play them, that really shouldn't happen by the point you get it, unless you play very strangely.
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Mar 29, 2014 19:36
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Psion posted:On higher difficulties you don't always have the luxury I beat Classic Ironman this way, so color me unconvinced. Psion posted:If I want to rank up some lower-rank guys I'll bring a couple colonels as insurance and then a swarm of people who need XP. Best balance of ranking up and "well this person needs to be dead now" in my view. I prefer bringing the highest 4 non-Colonel / non-wounded soldiers plus 2 rookies. Psion posted:e: also if you rank up properly there's no "desperately need" about it. I have, eh, let me see, 2 each colonel snipers, assaults, heavies, supports, and MEC troopers right now. Who's stealing XP? I'm pretty I ended up with 2 Psychic Colonels of each non-MEC class...
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Mar 29, 2014 19:38
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Mordaedil posted:I can't recall ever playing to the point where I've lost a colonel sniper. Considering how you kinda learn to play them, that really shouldn't happen by the point you get it, unless you play very strangely. I've never lost a colonel sniper either, but I don't use snapshotting, front-line snipers. In that scenario, it could totally happen. However, the fact that the three of us haven't lost one is not the point here. OwlFancier said that if you were capable of losing a colonel sniper, you'd never get one in the first place. This logically implies no colonel sniper has ever died in anbody's XCOM game ever, which is clearly not true.
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Mar 29, 2014 19:39
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OwlFancier posted:If you somehow managed to lose a colonel sniper, you wouldn't have a colonel sniper in the first place. But what if it happened? I mean, I get what you are saying. I just look at worst case scenarios, particularly in this game, and try to plan around that. So I train up backups for every position in my squad. That way, the run can survive even with a catastrophic mission that wipes out my A-team completely, and most likely I wouldn't have my entire A-team on any one mission anyway. It's a more conservative style, and makes individual missions harder than they need to be but it pays off when the poo poo hits the fan. But to get to a more likely scenario: your Colonel Assault with Mimetic skin dies because CCS triggered and exposed him. You only have squaddie assaults as a backup, it's survivable, but everything is going to be far more difficult. Whereas otherwise, you lose a Colonel, shrug, and move on to the next one. Who is probably technically "better" because they've had Iron Will for each level. Also, it allows me to play around with different skills to see if they are worthwhile. Close and Personal, it turns out, is pretty good on someone with mimetic skin! Holo-targetting, even with everything built for it to excel, is pretty lackluster.
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Mar 29, 2014 19:42
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My favourite way of losing snipers was having a group teleport right next to them when the rest of the team was way over there. Or just losing half your team to an accidentally activated Sectopod because you're already in a firefight and your only heavies with HEAT rounds were in the medbay.
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Mar 29, 2014 19:44
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OwlFancier posted:If you somehow managed to lose a colonel sniper, you wouldn't have a colonel sniper in the first place. You seem to be forgetting instances of  . Like I once had a dude get murdered because a group of heavy floaters activated on the outside of a UFO (where I could not see them), flew through the wall like it wasn't even there (it most definitely was), and in further flagrant defiance of the game's own logic, fired on their activation turn.  In this game, even ending your turn with no activated or visible enemies still might not mean you're safe from a sudden murder flank.Also it is REALLY easy to rank up a sniper once you get them Squadsight. You don't have to be good at the game to stick a guy where he can see a lot and murder things with him from safety. You probably shouldn't lose a colonel sniper after your first or second game, but I'm sure a lot of people have a story where their super badass sniper got left half the map behind because he was so busy killing things, and then a teleporting Muton Elite patrol decided to take up residence in his anus before he could regroup. E: Case in point above.
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Mar 29, 2014 19:45
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Peanut3141 posted:This is a rather stupid thing to say. A colonel sniper has died in the history of XCOM, try again with less hyperbole. I honestly would be incredibly surprised if I could lose a colonel sniper, especially with the options available to EW players. There is that particular gene mod which both eliminates the penalty for getting shot down in combat, as well as guaranteeing five turns of survival. Combine that with the survivability of snipers in general, they're not really something you should be losing, even in the event of a total party wipe because they should be able to retreat if everyone else dies. EW adds a bunch of ways to make soldiers a lot better, especially combined with elite soldiers because elite soldiers are generally pretty good anyway. If you have a colonel rank soldier, they can fairly easily be given some seriously powerful failsafes to keep them alive, even through situations which would normally kill them in an EU game. Certainly soldiers can be at risk, but I generally find that soldiers at risk are the ones that are most replaceable. Losing your best sniper can seriously mess you up because snipers are some of your best soldiers, but losing your heavy or your assault. Well... it's unfortunate but you can replace them with SHIVs or rookies to similar effect. I can understand keeping some of your soldiers in reserve if you're worried about losing your frontliners, but snipers especially are one of the units where you shouldn't really be losing them. I don't find it necessary to bench everyone who achieves a high rank for a worse scenario. Seems a lot like the XCom equivalent of never using the BFG9000 in case something harder comes along. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Mar 29, 2014 |
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Mar 29, 2014 20:05
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OwlFancier posted:I honestly would be incredibly surprised if I could lose a colonel sniper, especially with the options available to EW players. There is that particular gene mod which both eliminates the penalty for getting shot down in combat, as well as guaranteeing five turns of survival. Combine that with the survivability of snipers in general, they're not really something you should be losing, even in the event of a total party wipe. I don't disagree with anything you've said, other than I prefer Adrenal Neurosympathy to the gene mode you mentioned. Aim and movement are the two most useful stats to me and constantly keeping them boosted as my squad makes kills is too much to turn down. Plus that mod is cheap as hell, so modding it onto your entire squad is easy. It's my understanding that in a total party wipe, you do indeed lose your entire party, so in that case you would lose the sniper, regardless of gene mods.
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Mar 29, 2014 20:12
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