|
The change to attack and defense from AoW2/SM was pretty significant to making tier 1 & 2 units more significant. To go just to the core of the mechanics, disregarding some of the more advanced factors I can't yet speak to. You no longer miss. The base physical damage for all attacks is ten, with attack added and defense subtracted, and the damage variance of 20% is applied at the very end. Throw in directional facing for shields and flanking and guard mode, various traits and leader buffs, and low level units can hang in a bit longer with say monster slaying and superior numbers. The falloff is still there, but the low level guys remain a bit more useful to seed your army with - unless you're trying to fight orcish greatswords with elven archers instead of initiates. I also think this change makes health a lot more significant than it used to be. Orcish tier 3 non-class shock troopers have only nine resistance versus thirteen defense before their traits are factored in, but you'll be doing five damage at range, only ten close up with initiates, so that seventy health will still last an incredibly long while, and their overwhelm trait means that the shields on elven swordsmen are damned near useless as blockers except as speedbumps. Most particular of all is shields and flanking, which are two strength mutually exclusive options. If one of your units lets you set up a shield unit for a flanking attack, that is +4 damage difference on three attacks. Your units also get experience from more than just killing blows, so even when you're trying to send most of the experience towards your hero, your chaff isn't stagnating. LordSloth fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Apr 1, 2014 |
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 16:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 13:39 |
|
|
KnoxZone posted:Dwarf Dreadnoughts are not pleasant to fight. Is that 5 steam tanks up on his battlements?
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 16:54
|
|
|
Goncyn posted:[*]The function of the left and right mouse buttons is inconsistent, which makes me think too much about inputs instead of game actions. Most important example: when targeting a spell, left-click confirms a target; when targeting a "hotbar" unit ability, left-click cancels targeting and right-click confirms. Because of how the hotbar abilities work (they are more action modes than activate-and-target), I don't think it would make sense to change them to confirm on left-click, so I think the best change here would be to make spellcasting cancel on left-click and confirm on right-click for consistency. God yes. This is a constant problem for me and it's really getting on my nerves!
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 17:00
|
|
|
TasmanianX posted:Is that 5 steam tanks up on his battlements? 6!
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 17:00
|
|
|
I do have a question for Gerblyn: Is the campaign designed with simultaneous or turn-based mode in mind? There were a few monster ambushes and maybe scripted events that made more sense in one mode than another in previous AoWs, but I don't expect it'll matter for too much more than immersion.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 17:03
|
|
|
LordSloth posted:The change to attack and defense from AoW2/SM was pretty significant to making tier 1 & 2 units more significant. To go just to the core of the mechanics, disregarding some of the more advanced factors I can't yet speak to. You no longer miss. The base physical damage for all attacks is ten, with attack added and defense subtracted, and the damage variance of 20% is applied at the very end. Throw in directional facing for shields and flanking and guard mode, various traits and leader buffs, and low level units can hang in a bit longer with say monster slaying and superior numbers. Yeah I have to agree that the battle mechanics are improved over what was an already interesting tactical game. In the old AoW's tier 1 and (most tier 2) units were gently caress all useless an hour into any multiplayer/single player game. There was too much randomness in how attack, damage and defense worked. It was an all or nothing (like XCom) chance to hit, and then damage got rolled on a dice from 1 to [your damage rating]. Two huge dice rolls. Also, in both games, certain elemental strike attacks were hella unbalanced. Lightning and cold based damage basically meant that unit was dead and having that mechanic on a damaging strike was a bit much. Heroes in Age of Wonders 1 most of the time got hella crazy powerful, and if your leader died you lost the game. It was sort of a cool mechanic but at the same time led to a lot of really lame losses coming from unlucky goblin stabs. Age of Wonders 2 made leaders respawn at wizard towers, but also basically useless in battle. Domain was a bit silly in that game. I like how its now around every city. Also heroes were usually not AoW super crazy in hand to hand combat, but if you pumped their spell casting up you could win a lot of battles in one turn, with battle magic. I like the move away from that. Basically this game is taking all the things I like about the first two games, mashing them together, and then improving on that mixup.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 17:04
|
|
|
The early summon mount egg spell from the Sorcerer is pretty nuts. I got a Gold Wyvern and suddenly my Hero has giant move range, huge elemental protections and true sight.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:The early summon mount egg spell from the Sorcerer is pretty nuts. I got a Gold Wyvern and suddenly my Hero has giant move range, huge elemental protections and true sight. Awww poo poo. You can get a DRAGON from that spell? I was avoiding it because I thought it would spawn something weaker.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 17:19
|
|
|
What's some good stuff to build? I've been doing OK fighting, and finding diseased winged creatures to ride, and sometimes a ring or a club, but I'm constantly out of money and then if I lose an army or two I'm in bad shape. Looking for some pro tips here
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 17:21
|
|
|
I'm also slaughtering all the heroes that spawn next to my throne city and offer to work for me. My (only) primary hero has some crossbows, a longbow and a wand so I've got most ranged situations covered. The Hero ranged weapons seem very well balanced too they're all slightly different and their best case is pretty unique for each one. Edit: Making Item Forging occupy a city is pretty neat way to balance it. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Apr 1, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 17:22
|
|
|
Not sure if someone else noticed this, but running in borderless mode on my 2 monitor setup, the cursor doesn't scroll on the side with my second monitor, it just goes off the screen. I can scroll top, bottom, and the other side just fine but not the side with my second monitor. Also it's a small thing but the human skin shades going from super-pale white to slightly-not-as pale white seemed odd. Otherwise this game definitely seems interesting, although a bit overwhelming without a manual or tech trees or anything. Really liking the game from what little I got to play yesterday-kinda reminds me of a deeper HoMM 2/3 in terms of actually having some settlement/research elements. Also I wasn't entirely sure based on my playing, but is there multiple types of units at each tier for each race/class? Like are there multiple tier 1 infantry/archers/etc? How varied is unit selection for a particular race/class combo?
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 17:35
|
|
|
I tried to win a game while staying Pure Good, but I don't think it's possible. Because the map is small and non-cylindrical, these two other Theocrats built up enough to block me off from the rest of the map by every route I can see. They both hate my guts and declared war on me the second they met me, then immediately demanded peace when they realized I could wreck their poo poo no problem I guess. They won't accept Alliances, though, so I can't pass through without declaring war from peace and eliminating one of their cities. Is there a way to win the game without murdering everyone else and incurring Evil points?
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 17:43
|
|
|
WYA posted:Heroes in Age of Wonders 1 most of the time got hella crazy powerful, I'll miss the days of having an entire army of Pure Evil heroes that are possessed by Incarnates.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 17:45
|
|
|
bennyfranks posted:I tried to win a game while staying Pure Good, but I don't think it's possible. Because the map is small and non-cylindrical, these two other Theocrats built up enough to block me off from the rest of the map by every route I can see. They both hate my guts and declared war on me the second they met me, then immediately demanded peace when they realized I could wreck their poo poo no problem I guess. They won't accept Alliances, though, so I can't pass through without declaring war from peace and eliminating one of their cities. Oh great, so we're back to Civ 5 diplomacy again.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 17:51
|
|
|
So does the underground setting in the random map setting mean you can turn off the underground layer entirely? Or is that just a setting to prevent starter cities from being underground.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 18:09
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure every new faction starts as being at war with you. I've never seen a group that wasn't at war with me then asked for peace on the same turn as meeting them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 18:10
|
|
|
Gerblyn posted:If your hero dies in battle, then they should drop all their items after the battle on the hex the battle took place on. If your leader dies, then they keep their items and respawn with them. Is it possible you're leader died in the battle? Yeah it was my leader, the girl from the elf campaign. Basically if there is a dungeon where you choose to enter and explore (e.g. the one in the campaign that is hidden in lower left, it has a Legendary difficulty). If your leader dies, but you win the battle. The loot from the dungeon you get at the end disappears. You get the option to keep it or sell it, and if you choose keep it, it just disappears. Also if anyone is playing the campaign, there is actually a fair bit of hidden stuff on the map, some of it you can only get to with flying units it seems. in the first mission if you go directly north, up through the river and around the impossible barrier. There is a dungeon guarded by 3 weak creatures, inside i found some awesome loot I really like how the first campaign mission gives you about 5 different ways to get at the enemy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 18:12
|
|
|
quote:Also I wasn't entirely sure based on my playing, but is there multiple types of units at each tier for each race/class? Like are there multiple tier 1 infantry/archers/etc? How varied is unit selection for a particular race/class combo? For Races, the basic structure is pretty much: Tier 0: Some sort of weak ranged skirmisher type unit. Tier 1: A Sword Infantry Unit, a Spear Infantry Unit, and an Archer/Ranged Unit Tier 2: Cavalry Unit, Support/Caster Unit Tier 3: Every race has a powerful unique unit for this slot. Uber Cav, Flying Units, MegaDwarfs, ect. Your Class Choice gives you some additional units that slot in with your racial units, but I'm not positive on the exact number or if it's the same across classes. Your one Tier 4 is always tied to your class, though. EG Horned Giants for Druids or Giant Landships for Dreadnaughts.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 18:17
|
|
|
Man the loving summoning spells for Archdruid are amazing. loving eels and other giant monster that wreck poo poo everywhere in the enemies face.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 18:18
|
|
|
TasmanianX posted:Awww poo poo. You can get a DRAGON from that spell? I was avoiding it because I thought it would spawn something weaker. I've used it 3 times so far, got different colours of Wyverns every time. One of them makes the entire army invisible on 3 different hex types!
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 18:30
|
|
|
UberJumper posted:If your leader dies, but you win the battle. The loot from the dungeon you get at the end disappears. You get the option to keep it or sell it, and if you choose keep it, it just disappears. Herm, ok. I'll have a look into it tomorrow, thanks for the report! Sedisp posted:So does the underground setting in the random map setting mean you can turn off the underground layer entirely? Or is that just a setting to prevent starter cities from being underground. It turns off the whole layer. bennyfranks posted:Is there a way to win the game without murdering everyone else and incurring Evil points? Yes, because if the AI won't make an alliance with you, they'll probably declare war on you at some point and you don't get evil points for refusing a peace offer. One thing you could try is to make an RMG map, and switch off Temperate, Tropical and Arctic, so the whole land is a blackened wasteland. Then, make sure you only select Draconians and Goblins as enemies (the AI doesn't understand terraforming, so it would be screwed if it got Elf, since it would have nowhere to put cities). Finally, select a High Elf Arch Druid and take Creation Mastery, so you get all the magic that lets you spread temperate terrain and mass produce trees. You can then see how fair you can get, since the terrain penalties for Blighted and Volcanic will mean you can't really expand anywhere without first using magic to convert it to temperate. You could sort of heal the land as some kind of magical hippy person 
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 18:42
|
|
|
Played the 3v1 scenario (Taming of the Khan, I think) that has 3 players going up against a single AI during release yesterday with a friend. We were doing mostly well until the AI showed up with several stacks of Manticore Riders which just demolished us. That unit is absolutely ridiculous. 12 straight hours of gameplay and then we lost. I love this game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 18:44
|
|
|
Ojetor posted:Played the 3v1 scenario (Taming of the Khan, I think) that has 3 players going up against a single AI during release yesterday with a friend. We were doing mostly well until the AI showed up with several stacks of Manticore Riders which just demolished us. That unit is absolutely ridiculous. 12 straight hours of gameplay and then we lost. I love this game. God the most scary part about this game is how long it gets.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 18:50
|
|
|
Is there a way to do the empire wide terraformings like arctic and poo poo without having it instantly dispelled? They seem like they'd be cool but the AI are just so insanely dispell happy that it feels like a waste to research or cast any of it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 18:57
|
|
|
XENA I LOVE YOU posted:Is there a way to do the empire wide terraformings like arctic and poo poo without having it instantly dispelled? They seem like they'd be cool but the AI are just so insanely dispell happy that it feels like a waste to research or cast any of it. In the campaign, I was at war with two people, and the fact that they could dispell twice as fast as I could recast stuff was really a problem.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 19:06
|
|
|
Dispell kinda seems too strong honestly. Maybe it should have a chance of failing depending on the level of the spell? Or would that be too much
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 19:10
|
|
|
MoreLikeTen posted:In the campaign, I was at war with two people, and the fact that they could dispell twice as fast as I could recast stuff was really a problem. Yeah. In a random map I lost my invading army and needed time to rebuild a defending army, so I figured making my place a frigid wasteland would slow down invaders. But instead one turn after I casted frozen empire it was dispelled, then they dispelled arctic love right after I cast it despite there being no arctic land. And this was only against a single enemy empire. Really hope to see the terraforming stuff get some sort of dispell immunity for so many turns or something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 19:14
|
|
|
boredsatellite posted:Dispell kinda seems too strong honestly. Maybe it should have a chance of failing depending on the level of the spell? Or would that be too much It would probably be ok if it took way longer to cast. The way it is now you can't even use all those cool city de/buffs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 19:15
|
|
|
On the official forums one of the developers mentioned that he's going to take a look at the aggressive dispelling issue. They're working on a patch but unsure of when it'll be released.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 19:17
|
|
|
boredsatellite posted:Dispell kinda seems too strong honestly. Maybe it should have a chance of failing depending on the level of the spell? Or would that be too much It'd be cool if it didn't hit economic or terraforming buffs. It's a pain to re-apply those, especially the ones without clear visual effects
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 19:22
|
|
|
XENA I LOVE YOU posted:Is there a way to do the empire wide terraformings like arctic and poo poo without having it instantly dispelled? They seem like they'd be cool but the AI are just so insanely dispell happy that it feels like a waste to research or cast any of it. The Master of Magic way of doing this is to make the chance of a dispel proportional to the mana you poured into the dispel. Unless skills or spells that change dispel probability come into play, on average it's more expensive to dispel than to cast the enchantment in the first place. That mechanic worked well. The problem is, though, the AI in both MoM and AoW 1/2/SM didn't make dispelling a good world enchantment a high priority, like a human knows to. I think I can count the number of times I saw this on one hand, for all four games combined, having played for hundreds of hours. The AoW 3 AI apparently DOES know to do this. One of those cases where enhanced AI causes complaints, looks like.  gently caress the ROW posted:What's some good stuff to build? I've been doing OK fighting, and finding diseased winged creatures to ride, and sometimes a ring or a club, but I'm constantly out of money and then if I lose an army or two I'm in bad shape. Looking for some pro tips here I haven't played this game, but if it's anything like its predecessors your initial builds should focus on your economy, not military. You should only build early military for the sake of improving your economy (unless you're playing a map that features immediate combat). Armies are expensive to maintain, so it pays not to build them until your economy is on a better footing. And your economy can develop at an exponential rate, so it's most important to start improving it right at the beginning.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 19:28
|
|
|
Boldor posted:I haven't played this game, but if it's anything like its predecessors your initial builds should focus on your economy, not military. You should only build early military for the sake of improving your economy (unless you're playing a map that features immediate combat). Armies are expensive to maintain, so it pays not to build them until your economy is on a better footing. And your economy can develop at an exponential rate, so it's most important to start improving it right at the beginning. I don't think there are very many economic buildings, income seems to be almost exclusively based on world buildings consumed by your domain.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 19:31
|
|
|
I didn't think the number-of-figures-doesn't-affect-combat-performance drama would affect me, but it does. Bigtime. After years and years and years of games where figures = effectiveness (I can't actually think of any that weren't like this), AoW3 is hugely unintuitive. Showing a unit reduced to 20% of its population and having it still be 100% effective is Fundamentally Bad (Interface) Design. Spergs will kick and scream that it's a gameplay flaw, but honestly the rules are fine. It's just that the interface reports unintuitive information that flies in the face of standards set literally twenty years ago. It's like playing a game where the color on a health bar indicates how much damage the unit has already been dealt, not how much damage it can still take. Since they probably won't ever update combat mechanics to account for figures (and they shouldn't, the rules are fine), I'm hoping we'll get an option or mod where units are all-or-nothing in terms of figures. Sure all my men will fall over at the same time, but it beats "oh there's only one of those left, it must be pretty weak by now." boho fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Apr 1, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 19:33
|
|
|
MoreLikeTen posted:I don't think there are very many economic buildings, income seems to be almost exclusively based on world buildings consumed by your domain. Yeah, that's true for the original game. Often the correct thing to do in the original AoW is to build nothing at all.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 19:50
|
|
|
boho posted:I didn't think the number-of-figures-doesn't-affect-combat-performance drama would affect me, but it does. Bigtime. After years and years and years of games where figures = effectiveness (I can't actually think of any that weren't like this), AoW3 is hugely unintuitive. I did nooooooooot know this
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 19:59
|
|
|
boho posted:I didn't think the number-of-figures-doesn't-affect-combat-performance drama would affect me, but it does. Bigtime. After years and years and years of games where figures = effectiveness (I can't actually think of any that weren't like this), AoW3 is hugely unintuitive. It's very unintuitive for me, too. I'd kinda like a graphics option where units are just represented by one large figure instead of a swarm. It would make units easier to read on the map too, add they can be quite small when you're overlooking the battlefield.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 20:00
|
|
|
After like 30 minutes the state of the swarm just became visual shorthand for their health to me 
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 20:03
|
|
|
boho posted:I didn't think the number-of-figures-doesn't-affect-combat-performance drama would affect me, but it does. Bigtime. After years and years and years of games where figures = effectiveness (I can't actually think of any that weren't like this), AoW3 is hugely unintuitive. loving mind blown over here. How did I not notice this on the 3-4 hours I put in last night. It's not all over horrible, just different.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 20:04
|
|
|
Glad I use the auto-combat in battle....never was affected by it. And this is why I use the auto-combat, too many times the AI knows more about the combat than I do.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 20:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 13:39 |
|
|
Holy balls finished my first game. (Human, Sorc, random map with 6 factions.) Took 120 turns to win with a late alliance because i goofed up early diplomacy. (i was demanding gold, not offering it. ) This has been really, really good fun, im entirely satisfied with AOW3, and i've yet to step more then a toe into the campaign or the other five classes 
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2014 20:19
|
|
