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So you cross the international dateline, the system goes "Oops Kerberos authentication no longer working, F22 will now shut down" and it crashes?
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Apr 7, 2014 14:06
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Kerberos isn't the only protocol that uses timestamps and neither is it isolated to network security protocols in general, it could for instance be used for some kind of remote procedure protocol or messaging protocol. Having the correct date and time within acceptable parameters and being able to handle transitions in date fluently is a Pretty Important Thing for a distributed information system.
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Apr 7, 2014 14:08
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NihilismNow posted:So you cross the international dateline, the system goes "Oops Kerberos authentication no longer working, F22 will now shut down" and it crashes? Well this was the fear with the millenium bug - all those global companies and banking systems running off decades old infrastructure and needing precise agreement on when and what order trades get executed, and half of them might have decided it was the wrong decade.
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Apr 7, 2014 14:15
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I've watched a factory full of poo poo lose its mind when daylight savings time triggered, deciding ten second processes suddenly had another hour to go. It happens.
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Apr 7, 2014 14:21
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Snowdens Secret posted:I've watched a factory full of poo poo lose its mind when daylight savings time triggered, deciding ten second processes suddenly had another hour to go. It happens. I'm imagining a scene out of a Buster Keaton movie happening. Don't ruin this for me with additional details.
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Apr 7, 2014 14:46
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Snowdens Secret posted:I've watched a factory full of poo poo lose its mind when daylight savings time triggered, deciding ten second processes suddenly had another hour to go. It happens. What lunatic programs process controllers to use something other than TAI? Unless you're running a dairy or something and the cows all operate on local solar time, that is. NihilismNow posted:So you cross the international dateline, the system goes "Oops Kerberos authentication no longer working, F22 will now shut down" and it crashes? That would be better than the bug apocryphally in the first iteration of the F-16 fly-by-wire (if it existed, the story is that it was caught in simulation). Allegedly, the earth was modeled as a hemisphere and on crossing the equator there would be a sign change to the latitude variable and all would be well. The way the math was coded, the plane would try to execute a snap half-outside-loop and continue on the inside of the hollow hemisphere.
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Apr 7, 2014 15:48
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Frozen Horse posted:That would be better than the bug apocryphally in the first iteration of the F-16 fly-by-wire (if it existed, the story is that it was caught in simulation). Allegedly, the earth was modeled as a hemisphere and on crossing the equator there would be a sign change to the latitude variable and all would be well. The way the math was coded, the plane would try to execute a snap half-outside-loop and continue on the inside of the hollow hemisphere. Dear god that's amazing. Now I can't get the picture of something like this happening to the test flight of a 737 though. Which brings me to a question, can you even right a large body aircraft when it does something that extreme? Will the airframe even allow it? Mazz fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 16:14
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Mazz posted:Dear god that's amazing. Clearly not. Everyone will die.  More seriously, as long as you keep 1g on the airframe so the fluids run the same way, and don't run out of airspeed or altitude, there's nothing inherently impossible about aerobatics with a large aircraft.
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Apr 7, 2014 16:27
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MrYenko posted:More seriously, as long as you keep 1g on the airframe so the fluids run the same way, and don't run out of airspeed or altitude, there's nothing inherently impossible about aerobatics with a large aircraft. Yeah I didn't see any big reason why not but I realized I've never actually seen/read about that and would get a more interesting answer here then google. Now I really want to see a red bull demonstration team in an old jetliner though.
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Apr 7, 2014 16:42
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The problem is the limited maximum speed, large turning circles, and greater moments from a larger airframe and mass. The airframes are also probably less rigid than military fighters etc. So in theory, if you could scale up strength and speed, it'd be more doable. But the reason you have spoilers on airliners is because going into a roll too hard, because of the ailerons' positions, would literally rip a wing off if you had full-size ailerons and no spoilers. Can it fly upside down? Sure. Can it do it quickly enough to be classed as aerobatics? I'll remain sceptical. simplefish fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Apr 7, 2014 |
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Apr 7, 2014 16:49
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I can't remember if it was this thread or the Aeronautical Insanity thread in AI where there was a multi-page discussion about exactly this. The crazy thing I learned from it is that as long as the pilots maintain 1g through the roll you could be a passenger and not even notice that you were (temporarily) upside down, unless you looked out a window of course. Ever since then I've always imagined bored 737 pilots executing lazy barrel-rolls and chuckling to themselves.
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Apr 7, 2014 17:29
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Frozen Horse posted:That would be better than the bug apocryphally in the first iteration of the F-16 fly-by-wire (if it existed, the story is that it was caught in simulation). Allegedly, the earth was modeled as a hemisphere and on crossing the equator there would be a sign change to the latitude variable and all would be well. The way the math was coded, the plane would try to execute a snap half-outside-loop and continue on the inside of the hollow hemisphere. Apparently it would also flip out if you descended below 0 ft Mean Sea Level. At first glance, it would appear this isn't a major problem, since the aircraft isn't rated for underwater operations. Unfortunately, several airfields are at negative elevations, and the plane would pass through zero feet on final approach...
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Apr 7, 2014 17:34
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Apr 7, 2014 17:36
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MrYenko posted:Clearly not. Everyone will die. Definitely impossible. You'd be a madman to even try!
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Apr 7, 2014 17:40
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Terrible Robot posted:I can't remember if it was this thread or the Aeronautical Insanity thread in AI where there was a multi-page discussion about exactly this. The crazy thing I learned from it is that as long as the pilots maintain 1g through the roll you could be a passenger and not even notice that you were (temporarily) upside down, unless you looked out a window of course. Ever since then I've always imagined bored 737 pilots executing lazy barrel-rolls and chuckling to themselves. Or pour oneself a glass of iced tea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5xq5G_2ERU&t=2m32s
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Apr 7, 2014 17:55
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Dead Reckoning posted:Apparently it would also flip out if you descended below 0 ft Mean Sea Level. At first glance, it would appear this isn't a major problem, since the aircraft isn't rated for underwater operations. Unfortunately, several airfields are at negative elevations, and the plane would pass through zero feet on final approach... I wonder how they found this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Netherlands_Air_Force#Replacement_for_F-16
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Apr 7, 2014 18:14
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joat mon posted:Or pour oneself a glass of iced tea: Came here to post this. Since you beat me to it, have some more Bob Hoover: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7R7jZmliGc He is probably the greatest stick and rudder pilot in the history of aviation.
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Apr 7, 2014 18:41
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SgtMongoose posted:Definitely impossible. You'd be a madman to even try! Tex Johnson is the man. He was supposedly the inspiration for Maj. King Kong in Dr. Strangelove. I keep meaning to get his autobiography but I haven't had time for pleasure reading lately. My current favorite piece of flying is Kyle Franklin doing his drunk spectator stealing an airplane bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMWQ6cJiaiI From the cockpit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8xnc9HpF-Y
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Apr 7, 2014 18:45
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BIG HEADLINE posted:I wonder how they found this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Netherlands_Air_Force#Replacement_for_F-16 Actually, I'd heard it was Israelis buzzing around near the Dead Sea.
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Apr 7, 2014 20:10
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Terrible Robot posted:I can't remember if it was this thread or the Aeronautical Insanity thread in AI where there was a multi-page discussion about exactly this. The crazy thing I learned from it is that as long as the pilots maintain 1g through the roll you could be a passenger and not even notice that you were (temporarily) upside down, unless you looked out a window of course. Ever since then I've always imagined bored 737 pilots executing lazy barrel-rolls and chuckling to themselves. It was the AI thread, this is the article that they were talking about, which also goes into the nightmare of navigating in clouds: http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/langew/turn.htm
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Apr 7, 2014 20:57
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 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nrrh2XD6s4
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Apr 8, 2014 01:55
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SgtMongoose posted:Definitely impossible. You'd be a madman to even try! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cIgTAtj4E4
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Apr 8, 2014 04:15
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To be fair, we did kill a bunch of dudes via metal fatigue by doing that.
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Apr 8, 2014 04:37
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iyaayas01 posted:
Not to mention a complete badass. In WWII his Spitfire was shot down and he was captured and imprisoned in Germany. He escaped from the prison camp and *stole a loving Fw190* and flew to the Netherlands. He was Yeager's chase pilot when he broke the sound barrier, and flew chase for the anniversary flight 50 years later, in an F-16.
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Apr 8, 2014 14:24
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Dead Reckoning posted:To be fair, we did kill a bunch of dudes via metal fatigue by doing that. Pretty crazy that the USAF decided something that big would be a good platform for toss-bombing. It would be akin to asking B-25s to do dive-bombing.
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Apr 8, 2014 15:09
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Started at the very beginning of the thread a little over a month ago, as the Crimean situation was getting rolling and just got to the end today. Amazing thread. Content- I know the Errol Morris documentary on McNamara, Fog of War has been mentioned earlier in the thread. His documentary on Rumsfeld (same interview type format) The Unknown Known just came out last week. Haven't seen it yet, but Morris has a 4 part series in the NY Times on Rumsfeld. Part one here. Not completely Cold War, but definitely related.
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Apr 8, 2014 19:01
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Holy poo poo. I've never seen this before, that is as insane as it is awesome.
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Apr 8, 2014 19:50
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Veritek83 posted:
The early reviews I read from festival showings said Rumsfeld was smug and thoroughly unapologetic. I will see it. But I will not enjoy it.
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Apr 8, 2014 20:22
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MRC48B posted:The early reviews I read from festival showings said Rumsfeld was smug and thoroughly unapologetic. I will see it. But I will not enjoy it. Yeah, the ones I've read say that Rumsfeld displays none of the guilt and self-criticism that McNamara has in Fog of War and reportedly, throughout his later life.
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Apr 8, 2014 20:45
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I bet he would if we would have tossed his rear end and the rest of the Bush crew in prison like they deserve.
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Apr 8, 2014 21:20
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Dunno if I can watch smug Rumsfeld. McNamara had enough time to own who he was as a person and reflect upon it, and that's what made Fog of War a powerful documentary. I'll reserve judgement until I can watch it, but I'm betting this won't resonate as much.
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Apr 9, 2014 01:40
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VikingSkull posted:Dunno if I can watch smug Rumsfeld. McNamara had enough time to own who he was as a person and reflect upon it, and that's what made Fog of War a powerful documentary. I'll reserve judgement until I can watch it, but I'm betting this won't resonate as much. I'd imagine it would be like watching the Nixon-Frost interview, without the admission/apology at the end. Nothing more enraging than watching some 150 year old Lizard Man act like everything he did was in the best interest of the American People. "Why yes, I did prevent a second 9/11 and made the world a better place. If you don't believe me, just ask Cheney over there". *camera pans to the corner of the room where Cheney is eating the heart out of the chest of a small child*
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Apr 9, 2014 03:49
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If McNamara had left the White House worth anywhere from 65-120 million dollars (even adjusted for 1960-70 currency), I guarantee he'd have been as  as Rumsfeld.
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Apr 9, 2014 11:26
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McNamara was plenty rich before he ever set foot in the white house.
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Apr 9, 2014 12:56
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Blistex posted:I'd imagine it would be like watching the Nixon-Frost interview, without the admission/apology at the end. Nothing more enraging than watching some 150 year old Lizard Man act like everything he did was in the best interest of the American People. "Why yes, I did prevent a second 9/11 and made the world a better place. If you don't believe me, just ask Cheney over there". *camera pans to the corner of the room where Cheney is eating the heart out of the chest of a small child* And Cheney is all "Its either I consume this child's life-force or America looses her hyperpower status." I'm hoping in the coming decades, Cheney becomes a standard movie/TV villain, sorta like Nixon.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:01
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Nebakenezzer posted:And Cheney is all "Its either I consume this child's life-force or America looses her hyperpower status."  Coen brothers are like 15 years ahead of the curve.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:14
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"THE BUMS WILL ALWAYS LOSE, LEBOWSKI!"
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Apr 9, 2014 18:18
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Isn't Cheney basically the villain of Metal Gear Rising?
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Apr 9, 2014 18:30
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Let me know when this thread is done channeling Michael Moore, thanks.
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Apr 9, 2014 21:12
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Mortabis posted:Let me know when this thread is done channeling Michael Moore, thanks. So if we don't let you know, are we going to be deprived of your valuable posting? making GBS threads on Rumsfeld/Cheney derail is still not nearly as bad as "why don't we just dump all our trash in Antarctica" derail. Planes: 
mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 21:14
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