|
Vine stalkers are undead plant abominations. At least that is what they sound like from this blurb;quote:Limber in shape, Vine Stalkers are anthropomorphic masses of thick vines. They possess a once-humanoid core, parasitized moments before death by the magical vines. Lacking any other discernible features, their faces are dominated by their disproportionate, vicious maw with which they disrupt and devour the magical energies of their foes. They do come off as particularly strange since they have no precedence in the dungeon and there's no explanation for where they come from, but whatever. Its an interesting race so I'm okay with them. Do they count as undead or can they worship the good gods just fine?
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 16:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 11:46 |
|
|
Elyv posted:We should do this for the next tournament "Stepped from Time"?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 16:33
|
|
|
Is it just me or did they make poison a lot more effective in the early game? I got redpoisoned by a viper in only a few hits.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 16:36
|
|
|
Hivac posted:Is it just me or did they make poison a lot more effective in the early game? I got redpoisoned by a viper in only a few hits. They rebalanced how poison works, being in red poison isn't a death sentence like it used to be.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 16:38
|
|
|
You should also be able to tell if you are fatally poisoned or not, it is deterministic. (this might be broken in some edge cases though... )
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 16:44
|
|
|
bisonbison posted:Yeah, I don't understand vine stalkers as flavor, and I hope that Lava Orcs get reskinned as salamanders cause I like salamanders and I like things I like. IMO rename Vine Stalkers to "Mandragora"
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 16:56
|
|
|
LogicNinja posted:Uh, why? I mean not being able to read blink and teleport scrolls is bad but Formicids can't use those anyway. Yeah, blurry vision is much less dangerous on a Formicid than just about anything else. You are already playing under the assumption that you don't have an instant escape by reading a scroll. Related, I'm having some success with my FoFi of Nemelex Xobeh. Still early game, but I just cleared out Lair (Spriggan Forest End) and the first 3 levels of Orc without much trouble. I've definitely been helped along by the +0,+5 war axe of the Iron City of Dis {elec, rElec rPois rC+ SInv}. How long does it make sense to keep using this? Since I'm a Formicid, the goal is obviously to eventually get an Executioner's Axe and a Large Shield, so I'm obviously not going to run around with a War Axe forever, but should I drop it for the first Exec Axe I see, the first Ego two-hander, the first comparable artifact two-hander? Obviously there are times the resistance will be important (I'll probably use it for Spider even if I have a better weapon), but where does the +0/+5 slaying and elec brand start to fall behind higher base damage?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 16:57
|
|
|
Fear scrolls can be pretty good escapes too, though I guess you also get more obvious instant feedback if it didn't work. Once I died because, within the span of an encounter, I was given blurry vision, didn't notice, and then failed to notice the "tele" buff hadn't actually appeared when I tried to tele out. (PS I'm bad at this game.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 17:06
|
|
|
So what's the safest way to get exp out of the dungeon now? My old grinding route was this; -Dungeon to 13 -Lair -Dungeon to 18 -Orc -Elf to 2 -Vaults to 4 -Lair branches -Whatever is left based on my gear Now though, you have to get a lair rune before entering vaults in the first place. I've never done that before, and on top of experience as a whole being limited by less levels it sounds really nasty. Not My Leg posted:Yeah, blurry vision is much less dangerous on a Formicid than just about anything else. You are already playing under the assumption that you don't have an instant escape by reading a scroll. Axes don't seem like a good choice for an ant. The main benefit they have no is cleave, but when you play as an ant you can dig yourself infinite 1x1 passages to ensure you engage enemies in favorable terms. Cleave is completely useless there. That said, I'd drop it for the first executioners axe or better artifact you find. Don't get rid of it since the resists are good though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 17:06
|
|
|
Not My Leg posted:Related, I'm having some success with my FoFi of Nemelex Xobeh. Still early game, but I just cleared out Lair (Spriggan Forest End) and the first 3 levels of Orc without much trouble. I've definitely been helped along by the +0,+5 war axe of the Iron City of Dis {elec, rElec rPois rC+ SInv}. How long does it make sense to keep using this? Since I'm a Formicid, the goal is obviously to eventually get an Executioner's Axe and a Large Shield, so I'm obviously not going to run around with a War Axe forever, but should I drop it for the first Exec Axe I see, the first Ego two-hander, the first comparable artifact two-hander? Elec brand does 8-20 damage when it fires, which is on 1/3 of attacks. So, that's worth about 5 extra damage per attack, on average. The war axe is going to do somewhere between (11*3/2 + 5 + 5/2 = 24) to (11*2 + 5 + 5/2 = 30) damage, as you go from ~14 weaponskill to 27. (But it'll be on the lower end of that.) An unenchanted exec axe will do (18*3/2 = 24) to (18*2 = 36) damage... but of course it'll be attacking significantly more slowly until you get to 26 Axe skill... but of course it's unlikely you'll be attacking with an unenchanted exec axe anyway, since it's so easy to slap on at least +4/+4, and brands (temp- or otherwise) are nearly as common. Also, all the numbers in this paragraph are very very very rough heuristics... really, bad numbers are worse than no numbers. So, disregarding the above... My personal intuition would be to switch to the exec axe once you have it down to or below 1 delay (20 Axe skill), in the hope of minimizing the chance of enemies double-moving you. I can't claim to be a reliable guide, but that's what I'd try. You're not locked into a weapon once you switch, anyway, so you can always experiment. Internet Kraken posted:So what's the safest way to get exp out of the dungeon now? My old grinding route was this; Huh. My route generally goes: D to Lair, Lair, D to Orc, Orc (possibly 1-3), D to 15, Lair branches 1-4, then grab whichever rune looks less suicidal, then Vaults 1-4/Depths/etc. Having to grab a rune before being able to enter Vaults certainly makes things more challenging, but I'm still surprised that you were skipping the lair branches entirely before Vaults... Spider/Swamp/Shoals/Spider 1-4 are quite a lot easier than Vaults 1-4!
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 17:24
|
|
|
You have some options(also your 0.13 route is scary, it was my old route before I realized that I wouldn't die by stepping foot in Snake:1). My main route is, D:1-Lair Entrance, Lair:1-8, Orc:1-3, poke into Orc:4 and decide if I'm ready, finish D, possibly skipping D:15, Orc:4 if not done already. At this point I survey how ready I am for the lair branches I rolled, so my route is going to kind of depend on that. At any point, if a floor/branch is too scary, I'll hop somewhere else I'm capable of. In general, if I can, my preference is to do lair branch:1-4, other lair branch:1-4, some lair branch:5. Maybe I'll poke into elf(or depths) if I am desperate for some piece of gear like rPois, but that usually doesn't work out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 17:31
|
|
|
For someone who hasn't played since .12-ish, how is five levels of Depths different than just cutting the main dungeon down to 20 levels and calling it a day? Is Zot at the bottom, or is it a completely new branch?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 17:38
|
|
|
Big Mad Drongo posted:For someone who hasn't played since .12-ish, how is five levels of Depths different than just cutting the main dungeon down to 20 levels and calling it a day? Is Zot at the bottom, or is it a completely new branch? It's basically dungeon+ and the difficulty spikes pretty heavily. Zot's at the end.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 17:39
|
|
|
The Depths are actually something to prepare for instead of the entire main dungeon being a cakewalk.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 17:41
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:Axes don't seem like a good choice for an ant. The main benefit they have no is cleave, but when you play as an ant you can dig yourself infinite 1x1 passages to ensure you engage enemies in favorable terms. Cleave is completely useless there. The main reason to take Axes on a Formicid is if you don't plan on having a good way to deal with areas where you can't make those 1x1 passages(such as Vaults, Zot:5 vault, and Crypt/Tomb). If you have a competent way of dealing with enemies in open spaces, then it makes much more sense to go for better 1v1 weapons like Long Swords.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 17:43
|
|
|
Big Mad Drongo posted:For someone who hasn't played since .12-ish, how is five levels of Depths different than just cutting the main dungeon down to 20 levels and calling it a day? Is Zot at the bottom, or is it a completely new branch? It demarcates them as especially scary floors that you better be ready for. The rune lock used to be there instead of vaults, with vaults located within them, and I agree it seems a little redundant now, but believe me, you'll see how depths are "different" the first time you visit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 17:47
|
|
|
PleasingFungus posted:Huh. My route generally goes: D to Lair, Lair, D to Orc, Orc (possibly 1-3), D to 15, Lair branches 1-4, then grab whichever rune looks less suicidal, then Vaults 1-4/Depths/etc. Having to grab a rune before being able to enter Vaults certainly makes things more challenging, but I'm still surprised that you were skipping the lair branches entirely before Vaults... Spider/Swamp/Shoals/Spider 1-4 are quite a lot easier than Vaults 1-4! It was mostly out of  . The experience you get from the first 4 levels of the lair branches isn't that good, especially compared to Vaults 1-4. The most dangerous things to deal with at that point in the game are the really nasty uniques, and those can spawn in any of those 3 branches. So rather than waste real life time poking around in the lair branches I preferred to just go to vaults, get as much exp out of it as I could, and then storm through the lair branches. If I ran into an rear end in a top hat unique that I couldn't avoid, I would just back out. Come to think of it, as much as I want to play a Punch Ant I should probably stick to something that has escape options until I get used to the new changes. I have no idea what new uniques were added, and since the knowledge bot is hosed I can't get exact stats on them. Rather not splat a late game character because an enemy did something totally unexpected and I had no good escape plan. Am I right in guessing that a Vine Berserker is now the easiest character in the game to play?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 17:53
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:Am I right in guessing that a Vine Berserker is now the easiest character in the game to play? GrBe. Gargoyle anything is very strong; GrBe can get 3 runes with no effort whatsoever. Vine Stalkers are good, but balanced.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 17:56
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:Vine stalkers are undead plant abominations. At least that is what they sound like from this blurb; This makes me wonder if whoever came up with VS had just read Annihilation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 17:59
|
|
|
I just wish their abbreviation was Vi rather than VS, so that we could spell things like ViNe and ViBe.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 18:02
|
|
|
Fitzy Fitz posted:This makes me wonder if whoever came up with VS had just read Annihilation. Either that or they play a lot of Dominions and saw the Manikins/Mandragoras/Carrion Creatures.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 18:05
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:Am I right in guessing that a Vine Berserker is now the easiest character in the game to play? I... don't think so. I'll admit I haven't actually played vine stalkers, but despite their built-in spirit shield, they have Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Apr 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 18:07
|
|
|
Roctavian posted:I just wish their abbreviation was Vi rather than VS, so that we could spell things like ViNe and ViBe. ViBe: you feel jittery for a moment.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 18:07
|
|
|
scalded schlong posted:ViBe: you  They are, after all, a mass of tentacles.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 18:14
|
|
|
Jeffrey posted:I... don't think so. I'll admit I haven't actually played vine stalkers, but despite their built-in spirit shield, they have -40% hp aptitude, and not great skill aptitudes either, on top of no potion healing. They sound tough to me. Vs are -30% HP. Only felids have -40%.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 18:19
|
|
|
Viashino_wizard posted:Vs are -30% HP. Only felids have -40%. Oh my bad - I thought felids were even lower!
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 18:33
|
|
|
The innate spirit shield makes the VS HP apt somewhat deceptive but they definitely aren't an easy race, at least early on. Once you get one rolling they're pretty powerful though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 18:38
|
|
|
Don't forget about the fast regen. Just play them like Spriggans early on (only you're running away from fights to regen your HP instead of running away to escape) and you hardly notice the lower HP. I haven't gotten one to the endgame (because I'm bad) but they're actually pretty good at prolonged battles. The only thing it seems like they would be bad at is straight casters because of the spirit shield.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 19:01
|
|
|
Jeffrey posted:It demarcates them as especially scary floors that you better be ready for. The rune lock used to be there instead of vaults, with vaults located within them, and I agree it seems a little redundant now, but believe me, you'll see how depths are "different" the first time you visit. As an example of how different, before they cut it back to 5 levels, Depths had as much XP available as the entire dungeon in .13. My general route is usually Dungeon to Lair Lair (maybe skip 8 if it's a really bad ending) Dungeon to Orc Orc Clear dungeon Pick a Lair Branch, do 1-4 (maybe 5 if it's an easy one) Do the other Lair Branch Do the endings of both Lair Branches Vaults 1-4 Poke around in depths Vaults 5 Throw Elf 1-2 in anywhere after Orc depending on MR, and Elf 3 in anywhere after that depending on MR (or just don't do it at all). As for why axes on a Formicid? A claymore has 1 more base damage than an executioner's axe, that's obviously better, but I think cleaving more than makes up for it in all the cases where you can't create a hidey hole to fight from. I don't really care about the difference between mindelay at 24 and mindelay at 26, because I'm probably taking my weapon skill to 27 anyway. I will say that I don't think any weapon choice is clearly incorrect for a Formicid. Long Blades - Highest single target damage and digging allows you isolate single targets. Axes - Almost as powerful as long blades, better if you aren't isolated against a single target. Maces - Hydras suck. Also blessed demon whips are great, but you probably should have been a different race if you wanted to use 1-handed weapons anyway. Pole-Arms - Probably the weirdest choice, but gives some interesting options with digging. If you can place a weak enemy between you and a horde of enemies, you can use reaching to pick the real threats off one at a time without allowing them to get in range. Staves - Okay, I forgot that staves existed, but maybe a caster could make good use of a Lajatang with low weapon skill. Short-Blades - FoEn?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 19:03
|
|
|
 .....gently caress you Oka.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 19:05
|
|
|
Why are you caring about robes as an Oka follower? Maybe you are a troll or ogre?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 19:07
|
|
|
kaschei posted:Why are you caring about robes as an Oka follower? Maybe you are a troll or ogre? Yup, I'm a troll.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 19:08
|
|
|
Caerthir posted:
Normally I would say not to waste ID scrolls on armour but I guess it paid off this once.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 19:12
|
|
|
Thug Lessons posted:Normally I would say not to waste ID scrolls on armour but I guess it paid off this once. Eh, I have all potion ID'd except decay and confusion, and like 18 ID scrolls left.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 19:18
|
|
|
Put that on, goon sir. You will be invincible.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 19:18
|
|
|
Jeffrey posted:It demarcates them as especially scary floors that you better be ready for. The rune lock used to be there instead of vaults, with vaults located within them, and I agree it seems a little redundant now, but believe me, you'll see how depths are "different" the first time you visit. This actually sounds awesome, the dungeon always became a boring slog once you've tackled a couple branches, both too long and not challenging enough. I'll probably get back into Crawl soon, the changes and new races all look cool.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 19:23
|
|
|
WYA posted:Anyone starting up a tournament team? The Newman posted:I would like to join a team. I won 3 times last tourney, a feat I will not repeat this time because I have a job. If you still need a team, How To Die Horribly still has 2 spots available. Use my in-game name Orfax as team captain, and post here or PM me to let me know that I should add you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 19:24
|
|
|
Not My Leg posted:As for why axes on a Formicid? A claymore has 1 more base damage than an executioner's axe, that's obviously better, but I think cleaving more than makes up for it in all the cases where you can't create a hidey hole to fight from. I don't really care about the difference between mindelay at 24 and mindelay at 26, because I'm probably taking my weapon skill to 27 anyway. Why?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 19:25
|
|
|
For the sweet title, bro.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 19:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 11:46 |
|
|
Even that 26 to 27 levelup would probably get you to like, level 12 in some other skill. (Complete guess here but should be the right order of magnitude)
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 19:31
|
|