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Bacchante posted:Fair enough. Although, if it's impossible to finish the final mission even with the ultimate-quality ultra-screened troops then I think that'll end the debate on the matter fairly quickly, no? Rookies have a 100% hit chance, because you always feed them grenade kills 
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May 7, 2014 18:12
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| # ? May 14, 2024 13:45 |
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Jade Star posted:I've played all of Shadowrun Returns: Dead Mans Switch. Streamed it even. But uhm... Yeah they're not similar at all. Shadowrun is all plot and the actual game play felt very light and almost a necessary burden of telling the story. Combat is not in depth, nor offers anything particularly interesting to fiddle around with. The most I got out of the combat was playing a Street Samurai named Hans 'Hanzo' Steel, and screaming 'Hanzo Steel!' every time I ran up to someone and wailed on them with a sword. To expand on this a little bit, I think it's an issue of presentation and timing. Basically it comes down to design. Combat in Shadowrun Returns is generally a handful of enemies and then the combat is over. Very rarely is there a situation within the game where you're in combat time and there aren't immediately visible enemies, and even in those situations you are generally not under time pressure - enemies don't wander around the map seeking you out. X-COM EU/EW is also more lethal overall, and you generally have more individual actors (6-squad members, vs Shadowrun's 3-4). Shadowrun, on the other hand, involves fewer enemies and more of a focus on set piece encounters. The games themselves may not be similar, but there is a definite feel to the combat UI and mechanics that bears a strong resemblance between the two games. I could see someone using Shadowrun Returns's editor to duplicate a UFO or base assault mission in-engine with a reasonable level of fidelity.
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May 7, 2014 19:47
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I just discovered something in my own game. The Mimetic Skin gene mod disables the use of ghost mode in ghost armor. Ghost armor is hands down my favorite armor, so that really sucks. That, plus the increased meld cost makes mimetic skin a lot less attractive. I probably won't ever put it on a non-operative ever again.
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May 7, 2014 23:17
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LLSix posted:I just discovered something in my own game. The Mimetic Skin gene mod disables the use of ghost mode in ghost armor. Ghost armor is hands down my favorite armor, so that really sucks. That, plus the increased meld cost makes mimetic skin a lot less attractive. I probably won't ever put it on a non-operative ever again. I agtee with your concerns, to some degree, but I don't think that the issues are worth abandoning the idea altogether. Really, if you have the meld to spare, having infinite invulnerability and extreme scouting potential is too good to pass up.
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May 7, 2014 23:22
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There is no need for Ghost Armor when you can have Mimetic Skin and Titan Armor. 
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May 7, 2014 23:25
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Ghost Armor does also have the +20 Defense bonus, and the increased movement speed. Also a grapple, but if you're getting mimetic skin, why aren't you getting jumpy legs too. (Just tried out jumpy legs last night and I think I'm in love.  )
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May 7, 2014 23:29
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Felinoid posted:Ghost Armor does also have the +20 Defense bonus, and the increased movement speed. Also a grapple, but if you're getting mimetic skin, why aren't you getting jumpy legs too. You're getting regen legs because you know you'll have a grapple equipped at all times via skeleton or ghost? That's what I did. I put jump legs on my dedicated EXALT operative and they were alright, but I don't think they mean much to my playstyle. I didn't miss them on the rest of my team. I always graviate towards moving in overwatch up to the high ground anyway. There were maybe 2 maps where I thought "drat it I wish I had jumpy legs" and then on one of those maps I had some shitlord aliens shooting up half my squad so the heal was more important anyway. Psion fucked around with this message at 23:49 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 23:46
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Psion posted:You're getting regen legs because you know you'll have a grapple equipped at all times via skeleton or ghost? That's what I did. Problem with the grapple to me compared to the jumpy legs is that it eats up an action and can leave you in a very vulnerable spot on an edge. Not saying jumpy legs can't, but you can at least keep moving to some cover with that one action.
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May 7, 2014 23:57
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Psion posted:You're getting regen legs because you know you'll have a grapple equipped at all times via skeleton or ghost? That's what I did. Grapple isn't quite as powerful as jumpy legs. In general, with jumpy legs, you can move further onto a roof than you can grapple due to the grapple target needing LOS whereas your move destination has no such requirement.
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May 7, 2014 23:58
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Regen legs only heal you once you're into your real health though, so beyond the reduced time off when you've been badly wounded I don't see how they're significant once you get to the point where you've got good armor and enemies have good weapons.
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May 7, 2014 23:58
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Psion posted:You're getting regen legs because you know you'll have a grapple equipped at all times via skeleton or ghost? That's what I did. Well, I suppose it may have been more who it was on. Namely, my Colonel Assault. Jumpy Legs + Run 'N' Gun + Rapid Fire (+Skeleton move bonus) = Nowhere is safe from meeeeee.  Get hosed, aliens. I can only imagine how much ground my Supports will eventually be able to cover with Sprinter + Skeleton/Ghost + Jumpy Legs.  Also I usually tend to split whether I go high or low. In wilderness maps I tend to go for the higher ground straight away, but in city maps there's never any spawn points on the tops of buildings (plus it's always half cover at the edge), so faffing around up there is usually just boredom until I come down to find aliens anyway. Jumpy legs would mean I don't have to give a poo poo when a Thin Man or Chrys I just discovered decides to leap up to the roof to try to be safe so they can pop me next turn, and also means I can path straight over roofs instead of needing to grapple or climb a drainpipe, which wastes valuable movement. Same applies if you need to get to a different building's roof. It's basically a situational Sprinter, which does more than you realize if you're not paying close attention to what the alternative path would have been. Personally, I'm not impressed with Regen Legs. I can see it as a valid mid-game thing where your armor is only a quarter of your health total and the worst thing you're facing is LPRs. But once regular Plasma Rifles and the mechanized units start showing up, pure health is low enough to get one-shot, and I'm sticking a Medkit up their nose at the earliest opportunity anyway, especially if I've got the tier 3 armors. I don't feel like wasting meld on gene mods that will phase out of usefulness in the endgame, and in the midgame just mean I don't have to use a medkit I wasn't going to use on anyone else anyway. The one exception for me would actually be the operative, because at least they will usually be able to weather a hit from EXALT, and then can regen up to full because they're not wearing armor. E: Goddammit, y'all beat me to half my points. 
Felinoid fucked around with this message at 00:27 on May 8, 2014 |
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May 8, 2014 00:25
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Felinoid posted:I rather doubt that Jade would turn away applications right now. I'm virtually certain he wouldn't mind getting the haikus and art at the very least. I'd say prep your applications while you wait for Jade to respond. Worst case scenario, the thread gets more haikus and we praise you for your efforts, and that's honestly a pretty great worst case scenario. ...nobody remembers the old LPs, huh. Well, I suppose I'll put my name in the line, but my submission will probably just wind up being an all-caps recipe for maple-glazed ribs.
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May 8, 2014 00:32
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Canuck-Errant posted:Is it too late to sign up? This man clearly needs to be a MEC Felinoid posted:I rather doubt that Jade would turn away applications right now. I'm virtually certain he wouldn't mind getting the haikus and art at the very least. I'd say prep your applications while you wait for Jade to respond. Worst case scenario, the thread gets more haikus and we praise you for your efforts, and that's honestly a pretty great worst case scenario. I totally do not mind more applications. After this run is over I'm going to post the Haikus and art of all the people that got picked as solders. Then considering people probably want to see a Training Roulette run, other settings runs, or a Long War run, I will keep all the applications left over and use them to draw soldiers for the following games. Just a note, I'm not keeping the applications in a queue format. It's not first come first serve. I've been drawing random numbers to select which app I take. Zomborgon posted:[Talking about mimetic skin] Really, if you have the meld to spare, having infinite invulnerability and extreme scouting potential is too good to pass up. Invisibility does not equal invulnerability. This is an important lesson. Things can go wrong and your invisible dude can get hit or killed.
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May 8, 2014 00:33
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Jade Star posted:This man clearly needs to be a MEC I SENT YOU AN APPLICATION FORMS. RIBS DON'T EMAIL WELL, THOUGH. HOPE THE PHOTO WAS OKAY. OR WAIT, AM I BLACK NOW? I CAN NEVER REMEMBER.
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May 8, 2014 00:54
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Operation Pretentious Trick Polsy A quick mission involving a landed UFO. I try out a newly upgraded SHiV, Guava and I muse about enemy design, I get some great usage out of the flame thrower and sometime Cyberdisks can lead to unexpected and dangerous situations. I wish I had more to say about this one, but it's really just a combination of many minor things that goes on here. Some of our Gene Mods are starting to pop up and show their use, unexpected situations that require quick thinking to get out of, and putting some often overlooked equipment to use.
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May 8, 2014 00:56
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She's saying "They're losing ground." I think.
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May 8, 2014 00:59
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Jade Star posted:Invisibility does not equal invulnerability. This is an important lesson. Things can go wrong and your invisible dude can get hit or killed. I did not fully explain my usage of the term- it does the same if you keep the soldier far enough (10-15 tiles, perhaps) away from any others and they don't move without extreme care. If you need to, that means you can keep a heavily injured soldier entirely out of the fight. Yes, it's not invulnerability in a total sense, but situationally it can be as a contingency.
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May 8, 2014 01:12
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So quick question. What is better: mobility armors with the defense boost or standard armors with the guaranteed health?
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May 8, 2014 01:29
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Rick_Hunter posted:So quick question. The first if you play aggressively and can use the movement to flank. I prefer ghost above all others.
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May 8, 2014 01:32
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As an aside, has anyone played around with Mimic Beacons? I tested it out once using a Mimetic Skin Deep Pockets guy and a big ol' swarm of Corporal and Squaddie Snipers who I wanted to level up because Training Roulette. It was like a freaking turkey shoot. Great fun. It's also kinda useful for the Newfoundland mission, since Chryssalids are easily distracted, it seems. EDIT: And, if you were paying attention, Jade briefly pointed out via mouse-movements something I asked him to do in the last stream. Namely that, when you send out a Covert Operative and equip them with one of the items that increases health it doesn't display correctly in the deployment menu. Although it does apply in the extraction mission. Oh, and the Sentinel Drone doesn't actually give them a little drone. That makes me sad. Bacchante fucked around with this message at 01:41 on May 8, 2014 |
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May 8, 2014 01:37
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Rick_Hunter posted:So quick question. That depends - how much do you like dying to random chance? Okay, that's a lie. I actually prefer defense armour.
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May 8, 2014 01:45
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Rick_Hunter posted:So quick question. Carapace vs. Skeleton has already had a writeup, and Skeleton (defense and mobility) is the clear winner with one possible exception: Assaults at Major or Colonel (Extra Conditioning). For the tier 3 armors, it's more a matter of what utility you want for each class. Archangel for snipers is the only real "lock", as it's fantastic for Squadsight + drat Good Ground snipers. (Though if you know you're going to be going into cramped conditions where flight is less useful, sticking Ghost on non-mimetic snipers isn't a bad idea.) Heavies could use either Titan or Archangel (instant low cover anywhere is nice, and I've yet to test whether flying activates Will to Survive), Assaults should either be using Titan (Extra Conditioning again) or Ghost (for fast flanking and recon), and Supports can use basically anything depending on what you want them doing. Personally, I stick my Heavies and Assaults in Titan (though I may start putting Heavies in Archangel with EW), and my Supports in Ghost for invisible recon and never being shot at even when they're visible, because 60 goddamn defense in heavy cover.
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May 8, 2014 03:11
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The appropriate analogy for what might be squishy inside your SHIV:
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May 8, 2014 03:13
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The thing about the flamethrower and panic. Whoever said that they would just move is...kinda right. It SHOULD cause them to do a random action, then lose their next turn, like an XCOM soldier does. The problem though, is that this seems bugged. It does not happen every time. I've had mutons get set on fire, panic, then be perfectly fine the next turn.
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May 8, 2014 04:21
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heenato posted:The thing about the flamethrower and panic. Hi I was the one that mentioned that thing, and my story is that every time I would flamethrower the command room full of Sectoid Commanders they would scatter, I would send my Arc-Thrower guy in to capture one and then they would mind control him immediately. This happened three separate times. Edit: Oh also because of Lead By Example he had my MEC's will of 150, so an extra layer of bullshit there
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May 8, 2014 04:45
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That UFO sure was flammable. Who knew the aliens made their ships out of Magnesium?
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May 8, 2014 04:51
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I loved the heavy just sticking her laser gatling barrel through the MEC's armpit. "Hang on, buddy, just gotta use you as a barrel rest."
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May 8, 2014 05:05
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Travic posted:That UFO sure was flammable. Who knew the aliens made their ships out of Magnesium? Low-bid contractor. I'm telling you war from the alien side could be hilarious.
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May 8, 2014 05:06
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Wow so at this point that SHIV seems better than some of your human soldiers. If you can keep up with the upgrades and give it a plasma cannon it should serve you well into the late game.
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May 8, 2014 05:26
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Main thing is that you can't give it a lot of upgrades. It can get up to about 95 Aim and that's it, which makes it... A not-terrible replacement for a Heavy, honestly, albeit without the high-explosive option.
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May 8, 2014 05:32
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'So I hope you did what I did and read that mission name incorrectly in your mind first.' I actually did. For some reason, I thought it said Operation Pretentious Truck.  Also, yay SHiV! Got two kills and an assist on the cyberdisk. And the Outsider took cover behind it, which is always amusing. The Outsider also did something weird physics-wise, too: immediately after the revealed cutscene, it fell flat on its rear end for no apparent reason, then got back up. Lacking the MSPaint skills to commemorate the whole event, I've resorted to GIMP:      
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May 8, 2014 06:23
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Will Jade actually have enough weapon fragments to research real plasma weapons next month? Or did he just spend them all on alien grenades and improved pistols II-esque things he didn't really need. I say this only because I just did a similar thing and it kind of delayed stuff by at least a half-month more than it should've for little or, in the case of alien grenades, no benefit. I'm guessing his purchasing all of that stuff was similar to me purchasing all of that stuff in that it was a "I usually don't do this" sort of thing that felt neat at the time until I remembered why I usually didn't do it (weapon fragments). Since, while muton-heavy maps start giving more weapon fragments thanks to both alien grenades and their weapons giving them, he's entering what was for me the EXALT mission heavy portion and is about to cover every country preventing abduction missions. So he'll basically be at the mercy of UFO schedule RNG for getting fragments and even then better hope it's not a seeker+cybdisc+drone UFO.
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May 8, 2014 06:50
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One nice thing is that Elite EXALT carry Alien Grenades, so you can get fragments off them too.
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May 8, 2014 06:54
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Bacchante posted:Main thing is that you can't give it a lot of upgrades. It can get up to about 95 Aim and that's it, which makes it... A not-terrible replacement for a Heavy, honestly, albeit without the high-explosive option. Their lack of need for cover, and high mobility/ease for flanking should help compensate for fair-to-medium aim by just getting closer for the shots.
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May 8, 2014 07:37
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Bacchante posted:As an aside, has anyone played around with Mimic Beacons? I tested it out once using a Mimetic Skin Deep Pockets guy and a big ol' swarm of Corporal and Squaddie Snipers who I wanted to level up because Training Roulette. It was like a freaking turkey shoot. Great fun. It's also kinda useful for the Newfoundland mission, since Chryssalids are easily distracted, it seems. Mimic beacons are friggin amazing. Doubly so on any mission with Thin Rain, since if you throw one right, you can get a huge cluster of Thinmen to group up. Enough to take out with a single well timed missle. That said, I don't quite understand how they work. Sometimes you get huge hordes, other times, no one reacts.
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May 8, 2014 09:20
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Based on how this LP is going and the SHIVCOM video from earlier, it seems like our robot buddies are more effective than people tend to give them credit for. I've never played around with them before but I might need to do some SHIV shenanigans whenever I get around to playing this game more. So far it seems the biggest drawback for them is that they can't get skills of their own or use items. Imagine if you could bolt a medkit onto a shiv and teach it Run n Gun, you'd never need any other units!
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May 8, 2014 09:56
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I wish I could keep with the machine gun SHIV because a satisfying machine gun volley sounds so much better than a laser. However laser-robot bro is great to have.
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May 8, 2014 10:37
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Rum got around to posting this in my stream:
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May 8, 2014 11:46
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FredMSloniker posted:'So I hope you did what I did and read that mission name incorrectly in your mind first.' I actually did. For some reason, I thought it said Operation Pretentious Truck. Jade Star posted:Rum got around to posting this in my stream: These are the best. "Toot toot I am a soldiertrain! Yaaay!" 
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May 8, 2014 12:55
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| # ? May 14, 2024 13:45 |
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Should ask Jake Solomon on twitter if he wants to guest for a special game mechanics episode. I mean, clearly you are famous enough when Guavamoment's character gets put into the game.
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May 8, 2014 12:59
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