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PK loving SUBBAN posted:Wow, they are drinking some hosed up kool aid at ONDP HQ. Guys we totally have an awesome plan coming in a few weeks that will surely bring us all the votes. I can only imagine what right wing talking point they will spout in a sad attempt to gain more votes.
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May 15, 2014 17:59
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Guys we totally have an awesome plan coming in a few weeks that will surely bring us all the votes. "We'll create TWO million jobs by cutting corporate taxes by 60%!"
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May 15, 2014 18:25
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Leofish posted:The United States. NDP confirmed for not caring about Canadian workers.
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May 15, 2014 18:32
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Terror Sweat posted:NDP confirmed for not caring about Canadian workers. You could say they don't care about the Canadian "job creators" either, since I would assume many Ontario tech firms could do the job and it would show that the NDP support local jobs/businesses. Maybe they just didn't want to pull an Obama.
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May 15, 2014 19:53
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FowlTheOwl posted:You could say they don't care about the Canadian "job creators" either, since I would assume many Ontario tech firms could do the job and it would show that the NDP support local jobs/businesses. I think they DID want to pull an Obama, what with the going to the guys who helped Obama's online campaign. That dude got elected twice.
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May 15, 2014 19:56
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geese posted:Again, this is just my opinion, I have no idea what the thinking of the leadership is. Big things you say? quote:New Democrat Leader Andrea Horwath, meanwhile, promised to cut government spending by $600 million a year, and said she would run a leaner cabinet by reducing the number of ministers by one third, although she’d add a new minister of savings and accountability. Yeah, this is some very principled leadership from Horwath all right. "We're gonna cut a buncha government departments. No I'm not sure which ones. The point is that I'm gonna stop the gravy train!" I honestly can't tell if you actually believe your own bullshit and truly think that the NDP could win on this platform and then actually implement left wing policies, or if you're just lying, but neither option is promising. I've also volunteered on Chow and Marchese's campaigns and currently live in Trinity-Spadina. At this rate I think the party is on track to lose the riding.
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May 15, 2014 23:07
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Guess I'm voting Liberal. 
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May 15, 2014 23:14
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Helsing posted:Big things you say? My theory is he's a clever Liberal plant sent here to reduce vote splitting.
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May 15, 2014 23:18
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Helsing posted:Big things you say?  What the hell are they doing? At this point, I think everyone is working for the Liberal party. Kathleen Wynne must have pictures of all of them.This is like quitting your job, after planning for months, because your boss is an rear end in a top hat and then your family asks, "so what are you going to do now?" and you go, "I'unno. I got six weeks. I'll figure something out."
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May 15, 2014 23:23
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To be fair, with how Hudak continues to demonstrate how many different ways he can gently caress up, moving to the right to capture right-leaning liberals or economic conservative voters pissed off at Hudak might be a viable strategy. Pretty silly considering the roots of the NDP, mind you, but probably not a completely brain-dead idea from a pure strategy point of view. It probably ensures a Wynne victory, though.
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May 16, 2014 03:45
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To be honest, I struggle with the direction of the party and the decisions of the leadership but this is the team I ended up with, for both idealogical and selfish reasons. Effort post incoming: I finished my B.A. in 2011 and my M.A. in 2012 and I ended up with a very interesting combination of skills and research interests. I also worked for a non-profit during my M.A. doing work related to Aboriginals, but that contract ended right after I graduated. I found that between my interests in immigration, education policy, Aboriginals, the environment and other thing, that it was hard to choose one path, but I knew that my views are generally progressive, socially democratic, anti-capitalist and all that good stuff. I started looking for work in the non-profit sector with no luck, and I eventually decided that a good use of my skill set would be to help get progressive people elected to government, across all levels of government, in the hopes that things will get better. I was not at all involved in politics for most of my life, but I live in downtown Toronto so I ended up with the NDP. I set up a meeting with Joe Cressy, who was then the president of my local federal NDP riding association and Joe put me in touch with some people at ONDP. I thought this would be a lot easier. I was expecting to volunteer a couple days a week for a month or two and then as soon as a constituency office or legislative assistant job opened up somewhere in Toronto, I'd get snapped up immediately and then I could REALLY do some positive work. Instead I've spent the last year and a half volunteering while still looking for a full time job in my field that has still never come. I think the true strength of the NDP is in our constituency and grassroots work and that's where I'd like to be, at least in the short term. I think the NDP's community work is the main reason why we've managed to hold every seat we've gained since 1995. The only exception I can think of is Paul Ferreira, but he could get his seat back for real this time. In Trinity-Spadina, our constit offices gets so many people who are down and out and we do our best to help them and make their lives better. I've seen people in similar situations while canvassing in places like Niagara Falls. I think politicians should be responsible first and foremost to their constituents, certainly not corporations and "job creators". Maybe I'm wrong, but I just can't picture Liberal, and especially Conservative MPPs and their staffers putting in the effort to help people the way that we do. Every constit assistant I've ever dealt with really cares about their work and they want positive change in their communities. It's unfortunate that HQ has chosen to tack to the centre and come up with some of these silly ideas, but I find that the candidates and the people who work for them are good people who want to do good things. I believe every community in Ontario deserves a strong, progressive voice that will stand up for them, and despite all the bullshit from the leader's office, I feel that we really can make positive changes in a lot to the communities that take a chance on their local NDP candidate. So that's why I ended up with the ONDP and why I continue to support the party. And again this might be selfish, but it would be really disappointing for me to come out of this with nothing after the thousands of volunteer hours I've put in. I've been lucky that Rosario and some others have taken a chance on me and given me a few small contracts here and there to help me put my degree to use and to keep me afloat financially in between some temp and retail jobs. I've worked really hard for almost no money to get my name out there and I've found it requires a lot of effort and hustle to get the big decision makers to remember me and what I have to offer them. So many of my fellow volunteers are young people in the same boat that I am and this election is an opportunity to finally get some paid work. My hope is that, at the end of the day, I get a full time job out of it. I've settled into trying to make a career out of this politics thing and the more people we get elected, the more potential jobs that are available for me and my friends that I've worked with over the past year and a half. And it it all goes to hell for the ONDP, a lot of my friends will lose their jobs, which would be even worse. So if you want a more progressive ONDP, give me 10-15 years so I can really shake things up. People tell me I'm an optimist and idealist and that's definitely true, but like Jack said, we need some love, hope and optimism.
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May 16, 2014 04:24
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Also the announcement today was not what I was referring to. We all rolled our eyes a bit at the Minister of Gravy thing when we heard about it at the morning meeting. I'm not supposed to talk about it, but there's a very ambitious and secretive project they're working on at the office that the higher ups are all whispering to each other about and it's engaging a lot of the mid-level people. I'm mostly out of the loop on it, but I think it's related to the platform. I sometimes deal with some of the peripheral stuff related to this project (mostly flipping e-mails to a specific person in my department) but details about the platform that haven't already been announced would never ever get to me. The parts that I have seen are all really impressive, and I think you'll know what I'm referring to when it gets disseminated.
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May 16, 2014 04:44
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Leofish posted:The United States. Everyone uses NationBuilder. They're the standard if you're looking to do good work with data and don't actually plan to employ any data scientists. It's like saying we're exporting jobs because you use Salesforce or Oracle instead of rolling your own made-in-canada solution.
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May 16, 2014 06:20
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Helsing posted:Yeah, this is some very principled leadership from Horwath all right. "We're gonna cut a buncha government departments. No I'm not sure which ones. The point is that I'm gonna stop the gravy train!"
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May 16, 2014 06:21
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geese posted:Maybe I'm wrong, but I just can't picture Liberal, and especially Conservative MPPs and their staffers putting in the effort to help people the way that we do.
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May 16, 2014 06:32
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geese posted:Maybe I'm wrong, but I just can't picture Liberal, and especially Conservative MPPs and their staffers putting in the effort to help people the way that we do. Every constit assistant I've ever dealt with really cares about their work and they want positive change in their communities. It's unfortunate that HQ has chosen to tack to the centre and come up with some of these silly ideas, but I find that the candidates and the people who work for them are good people who want to do good things. I can't speak for what happens at Queen's Park, but I have spent a lot of time on the hill around staffers for all the different parties, and honestly the biggest difference between the Conservative, Liberal, and NDP staffers at parliament is what they wear and how much money they make (unions ftw). Staffers jump between Con/Lib offices and staffers jump between Lib/NDP offices. They are all keeners, they all work crazy hours (unionized staff less than others), they are all seekers of truth and liberty and have their hearts broken when a constituent is begging for help navigating some archaic federal system or getting an employer to send an ROE so they can feed their kids. I mean, I don't want to be a dickhead because if you work with Joe and Rosario we probably either already know each other in person or probably will eventually, but it's attitudes like yours that every lovely party in the history of politics has used to get elected because they felt a moral righteousness strong enough that they believed the ends justified the means. It's bullshit, and I don't think the ONDP has any idea just how badly they're alienating their base with this job creator gravy train tax cut garbage. Every day I see at least two or three posts on my FB feed from NDP faithful -- people who have a dozen NDP MPs, Jen Hassum, Kathleen Monk and whoever else on their friends list -- posting about how they don't know if they're going to vote NDP or refuse their ballots. The ONDP could have taken credit for forcing the most progressive budget in twenty years. Instead we get Horwath promising to cut $600 million dollars in spending.
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May 16, 2014 06:54
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Tim Hudak won't say whether or not he would keep TVO around in his cutstravaganza, which probably means he would cut it because usually you say you'll keep things to win votes, and this would also mirror his "will you cut our music grant?" "Okay bye!" stunt from the first day of his campaign. Meanwhile, the Hudak campaign keeps on rolling in its other idiosyncratic ways: quote:If politics doesn’t work out, shipping and receiving may not be an option for Progressive Conservative Leader Tim Hudak. e: I also really like this article, regarding Tim Hudak and debt. Ignore the first bit about Alfred E. Newman, it gets much better afterwards. quote:There’s an Alfred E. Newman quality about Tim Hudak, and I say that with great affection, speaking as one of Mad magazine’s early devotees. (My collection of vintage Mads perished in a cottage fire years ago.) The resemblance became clear on that subway ride that was cancelled because his aides lacked a permit, leaving Hudak grinning manically in the back of the shot — and even then only after some genius added circus music to the footage and posted it on YouTube. He has to be saying, What, me worry? vyelkin fucked around with this message at 09:48 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 08:49
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Twiin posted:It's bullshit, and I don't think the ONDP has any idea just how badly they're alienating their base with this job creator gravy train tax cut garbage. Every day I see at least two or three posts on my FB feed from NDP faithful -- people who have a dozen NDP MPs, Jen Hassum, Kathleen Monk and whoever else on their friends list -- posting about how they don't know if they're going to vote NDP or refuse their ballots. For what it's worth and I can't speak for anyone else but as soon as Horwath uttered the words "Job Creators" she lost my vote. I'm voting Liberal now; not because I particularly want them to win but because I absolutely 100% do not want Hordak to. I wouldn't care about vote splitting to support a left wing NDP but if they are turning a hard right then I'll go with the devil I know.
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May 16, 2014 13:14
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Rutibex posted:For what it's worth and I can't speak for anyone else but as soon as Horwath uttered the words "Job Creators" she lost my vote. I'm voting Liberal now; not because I particularly want them to win but because I absolutely 100% do not want Hordak to. I wouldn't care about vote splitting to support a left wing NDP but if they are turning a hard right then I'll go with the devil I know. Ditto. Word for word. I have voted NDP my whole life (except the last Federal election I went Lib because "vote splitting" but it didn't matter the Cons won). This time around I'll vote Liberal as the least of three evils. It's nice to talk about what goes on in constituencies, but if the brass are going to pander for votes by giving up on their ideology I don't see how they can be trusted. What's the point of having a party ideology at this point? Call yourselves the "We'll Say Anything For Votes" party and at least I'll know what you stand for. DynamicSloth (or anyone): I'm confused - how can you cut cabinet ministers but keep the ministries? Do they just operate as autonomous departments and are accountable to the Premier? I just can't picture how it works. Especially: Horwath posted:Horwath admitted she doesn’t know yet which eight ministers she’d eliminate, but said there is waste and duplication across government and its agencies that should be rooted out, starting with the energy sector. It sounds like, at the least, she would roll some of them together to cut back on duplication, which I assume would lead to a lot of job losses and general headaches as departments got sorted out how to run under the new system. Kafka: Reset the poll - I think the numbers will change drastically from when the thread started.
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May 16, 2014 14:00
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Aagar posted:DynamicSloth (or anyone): I'm confused - how can you cut cabinet ministers but keep the ministries? Do they just operate as autonomous departments and are accountable to the Premier? I just can't picture how it works. Especially: Ministers are responsible for areas of policy. Ministries are bureaucratic entities. Sometimes, you have several ministers dealing with the same ministry, or ministers whose responsibilities span several ministries, or even ministers who don't have set responsibilities at all. Currently, in the Ontario cabinet, there's someone who is "Minister responsible for Seniors". That's not a real job. There's a Ministry of Child and Youth Services, which surely duplicates a lot of the work the Ministry of Community and Social Services does. You're going to find overlap between the ministries of Environment, Energy, Natural Resources, Northern Development and Mines, and Rural Affairs - maybe you only name two or three ministers over those five ministries. There's something called a "Ministry of Research and Innovation" which exists for some reason, distinct from both the education ministries and the Ministry of Economic Development. A lot about cabinet composition is up to the whims of the current premier.
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May 16, 2014 14:38
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I think the big takeaway from Horwath's promise to cut six cabinet posts and 600 million per year from the government budget is what it says about her messaging strategy. Especially when you look at this alongside her other announcements and her efforts to distance herself from the labour movement I think that it's clear that Horwath has pushed the party hard to the right.geese posted:To be honest, I struggle with the direction of the party and the decisions of the leadership but this is the team I ended up with, for both idealogical and selfish reasons. Effort post incoming: Its understandable that you want to get a decent job in a really tight market and that you'd like to believe that at some point you'll have the chance to make your mark on the party. However, this comment really demonstrates how the interests of the party bureaucracy aren't the same as the interests of an actual left wing movement. You want the NDP to win so you can have a job and so that your friends can have jobs. The timescale you propose for improving the party is 10 to 15 years. Sorry but that just isn't good enough. You're saying that somebody who is 20 right now should wait until they are 35 to have a party that actually fights for their interests? No thanks. The NDP needs to be a party that fights for a real alternative to the status quo. The CCF / Federal NDP was able to get healthcare enacted federally without ever winning office or even becoming the official opposition. Sometimes real leadership is about sacrificing short term political expediency and fighting for a deeper set of principles.
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May 16, 2014 16:23
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quote:David Akin @davidakin · 33m Green wave!!
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May 16, 2014 22:23
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EKOS, April 9: OLP 32.3%, ONDP 29%, OPC 27.4%, GRN 8%, OTH 3% EKOS, May 16: OLD 37.1%, OPC 30.3%, ONDP 20.9%, GRN 7%, OTH 5% Horwath better pray that that big policy announcement of hers turns this around, because holy poo poo is that trend bad for the NDP. e:   e2: more graphs   
vyelkin fucked around with this message at 22:31 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 22:27
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Meanwhile Ipsos Reid has a new poll saying OPC 39% / OLP 30% / ONDP 24%. The polls in this election really are all over the place.
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May 16, 2014 22:45
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Why does ONDP do best among people with only a high school education? Are these the much spoken of "yokels"?
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May 16, 2014 22:47
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Badger of Basra posted:Why does ONDP do best among people with only a high school education? Are these the much spoken of "yokels"? Who doesn't have a university degree? -People currently in university -First nations -Lower income people -Blue collar unionised workers
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May 16, 2014 22:50
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When your mostly stuck in low wage jobs it makes sense that you'd be inclined to support the party that is widely perceived as being the champion of working class people. Horwath may be doing her best to demolish that perception but when people are polled about which party is the best at 'fighting for people like you' or fighting for economic justice they tend to select the NDP.
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May 16, 2014 22:50
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Helsing posted:Meanwhile Ipsos Reid has a new poll saying OPC 39% / OLP 30% / ONDP 24%. Ipsos: n = 800, online only Ekos: n = 1111, IVR, mixed CPO/landline sample Take the regional and other breakdowns with lots of salt. The direction of movement over time might be more revealing than the actual absolute numbers. This might end up being a bit of a battle of methodology for the pollsters.
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May 16, 2014 23:21
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Helsing posted:Meanwhile Ipsos Reid has a new poll saying OPC 39% / OLP 30% / ONDP 24%. All we need to know is what Éric Grenier thinks. The opposite of that will be the election results.
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May 17, 2014 00:59
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All that Hudak had to do was keep his trap shut for ~one month~ of campaigning and he couldn't do it.
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May 17, 2014 01:01
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Twiin posted:Everyone uses NationBuilder. They're the standard if you're looking to do good work with data and don't actually plan to employ any data scientists. It's like saying we're exporting jobs because you use Salesforce or Oracle instead of rolling your own made-in-canada solution. Yeah, this isn't exactly new either, they've been around for a while. But Nation Builder is the platform, they don't really build the site content itself. That's still handled by whoever has been contracted to handle the web campaign. If it's full of typos or poor grammar, they're using someone internally (and they shouldn't be) or they went cheap on the contract.
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May 17, 2014 02:56
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infernal machines posted:I'm really disappointed that the PCs are literally the only option if I want to see nuclear power developed in Ontario. Everyone else is promising to halt or revert nuke development and investment. I'm an upper year nuclear engineering student and I'd be guaranteed a job for life if Hudak makes good on his nuclear promises. There are very low graduation numbers on nuclear engineers as it is so pretty much anyone who makes it to graduation would be needed somewhere. But he's so goddamn terrible everywhere else that I refuse to throw everyone else under the bus just for my own sake. Plus I'd make that list of "bureaucrats" making over 100k within a couple years of graduation that he hates so much
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May 17, 2014 03:18
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Helsing posted:When your mostly stuck in low wage jobs it makes sense that you'd be inclined to support the party that is widely perceived as being the champion of working class people. And if that perception sticks, it's only because the electorate hasn't looked at the NDP and realized that their platform consists of nothing but the not-completely-batshit Hudak ideas, painted orange.
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May 17, 2014 03:58
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BattleMaster posted:But he's so goddamn terrible everywhere else that I refuse to throw everyone else under the bus just for my own sake. PT6ING INTENSIFIES
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May 17, 2014 04:20
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Fojar38 posted:All that Hudak had to do was keep his trap shut for ~one month~ of campaigning and he couldn't do it. It's kind of refreshing, honestly. He's really open about his policies and repeatedly says that he doesn't want to trick people, he wants to just be himself and tell Ontarians what he thinks is the harsh truth, and hope they vote for him as a result. It's a very honest Canadian way to be a Tea Party shithead, a far cry from US-style "ssssh, nobody talk about what we actually believe or we won't win power!" which is actually kind of what Horwath is doing according to our source within NDP headquarters.
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May 17, 2014 06:59
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Well, except that there's no reason to believe that Horwath is indeed running a submarine operation. Also that NDP graph is amazing. I guess people are correctly realizing that they're better off voting for the faction of the Liberal Party that is more likely to win.
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May 17, 2014 08:16
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Heavy neutrino posted:Well, except that there's no reason to believe that Horwath is indeed running a submarine operation. If there's one thing this campaign has taught me it's that I would much rather vote for the left wing of the Liberal party than the right wing of the NDP.
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May 17, 2014 10:29
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BattleMaster posted:I'm an upper year nuclear engineering student and I'd be guaranteed a job for life if Hudak makes good on his nuclear promises. There are very low graduation numbers on nuclear engineers as it is so pretty much anyone who makes it to graduation would be needed somewhere. It's ridiculous that this is a decision you have to make, but I suppose that's Ontario politics. I really have a hard time understanding OLP and ONDP's positions on nuclear power. Conservation for the sake of conservation is absurd. Instead of developing technologies and potentially a resource base (electricity) that we could sell outside the province, we're looking at shutting down what we have and telling skilled people like BattleMaster that they're not wanted or needed here, move on. It's like we're trying very hard to make sure that we will never have the cheap power that's attractive to say, the manufacturing industry. On a more local note, I think my MPP (Cheri DiNovo) has been doing a fine job, and I have no problem with her work/policies. On the other hand, I'm really not liking the idea of voting NDP simply because of the completely ridiculous "Job Creators, tax cuts, efficiencies" bullshit they've adopted for the campaign. On the plus side, it really doesn't matter as my riding usually goes solidly NDP. Also, I have no idea who the Liberal candidate is, I've seen her website telling me how involved she is in the community, but I've never heard of her before. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 13:14 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 12:19
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vyelkin posted:It's kind of refreshing, honestly. He's really open about his policies and repeatedly says that he doesn't want to trick people, he wants to just be himself and tell Ontarians what he thinks is the harsh truth, and hope they vote for him as a result. It's a very honest Canadian way to be a Tea Party shithead, a far cry from US-style "ssssh, nobody talk about what we actually believe or we won't win power!" which is actually kind of what Horwath is doing according to our source within NDP headquarters. I'm only projecting my thought that Andrea is campaigning from the centre and will govern from the left. I'm not important enough to actually have insider knowledge of the thinking of the leadership. geese fucked around with this message at 15:46 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 15:29
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Dreylad posted:All we need to know is what Éric Grenier thinks. The opposite of that will be the election results. As of May 17: OPC- 35.8% (Projection of 44 seats) OLP- 35.7% (Projection of 49 seats) ONDP- 21.8% (Projection of 14 seats) Greens- 5.5% (Projection of 0 seats) Others- 1.2% (Projection of 0 seats)
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