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FizFashizzle posted:Here in Hyderabad, Modi supporters celebrated the announcement by murdering five Muslims in the old town. Well, that's just not good at all, and I feel it's my duty to say I Strongly Disapprove. No, seriously: to get back to the thread title, what could/should we actually do about this to fix it?
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May 17, 2014 07:50
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Well, if you got every Indian to donate to a SuperPAC...
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May 17, 2014 08:04
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Gujarat vs Kerala models of development, I guess
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May 17, 2014 08:07
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PT6A posted:Well, that's just not good at all, and I feel it's my duty to say I Strongly Disapprove. Pretty sure it's working as intended 
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May 17, 2014 14:56
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FizFashizzle posted:This isn't necessarily a good thing at all. Indian construction standards outside of the big cities is a joke at best. Even in places like Hyderabad they have 2 or 3 deaths a week due to scaffolding collapsing because they don't know how to lash it properly. Tell me more about Hyderabad. There's a good chance I'm moving there for work.
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May 17, 2014 16:17
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FizFashizzle posted:operatives handing them 4,000 rupees 4000, seriously? Isn't that like a month's wages?
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May 17, 2014 16:26
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Torka posted:4000, seriously? Isn't that like a month's wages? The minimum wage per month from what I found here is about 2600/month. So a bit more than a month's wage probably. It's also equivalent to ~$60 here. computer parts fucked around with this message at 16:36 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 16:34
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So it's similar to a person here being offered a couple thousand dollars in cash to vote a certain way. Can't deny I'd have been tempted during my more broke periods.
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May 17, 2014 16:39
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Yea if I was poor as poo poo (you said they were doing this in slums and poo poo, as in the places where people have near literally nothing?) I'd pretty much vote for whatever stupid crazy party was giving me fat stacks and booze, hard to be mad at anyone but the assholes who used those dudes as pawns there.
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May 17, 2014 16:42
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Torka posted:So it's similar to a person here being offered a couple thousand dollars in cash to vote a certain way. Can't deny I'd have been tempted during my more broke periods. More like a couple hundred perhaps, but yeah the money goes farther over there and they're all poor as hell. Edit: For a rough gauge, in Kolkata 3000 rupees a month was enough to have a family cook and deliver two meals a day. You could probably walk down to the corner and pick up all your meals from a street vendor for ~700 for the month, less balanced meals though. I think I remember reading a news story at one point about a chai wallah and his family living off of ~8000 rupees a month. Thats what Narendra Modi and his family's business was before he got into politics, to sort of frame the rags to riches story that inspired voters and put some wind into Modi's sails. Yiggy fucked around with this message at 17:27 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 17:10
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Just in case anyone was wondering, the BJP more than doubled their seat count with a 6.5% swing. They won a huge majority with 31% of the vote. Thanks, FPTP!
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May 17, 2014 17:23
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TheImmigrant posted:Tell me more about Hyderabad. There's a good chance I'm moving there for work. Email me. User name at gmail dot com. Have some Indian Facebook memes.  Rajnikanth: do you want any more seats? Have I given you enough? Modi: no, there's no opposition left. FizFashizzle fucked around with this message at 18:33 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 18:30
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I actually have a gay friend in India who's more hopeful about Modi. He knows he's not likely to be LGBT friendly, but thinks that an end to coalition governments can only be an improvement, particularly if he focuses on the economy.
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May 18, 2014 02:55
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trash squad posted:This thread has been dormant for a bit, but thought it worth reviving This was your first and last mistake. Someone should have made a new thread instead of resurrecting this abomination.
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May 18, 2014 03:08
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Lol bjp. Good luck India, at least in America hardcore religious nationalist nutjobs are a minority.
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May 18, 2014 04:09
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TheBalor posted:I actually have a gay friend in India who's more hopeful about Modi. He knows he's not likely to be LGBT friendly, but thinks that an end to coalition governments can only be an improvement, particularly if he focuses on the economy. Your friend is real dumb.
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May 18, 2014 04:57
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I work in Kuwait, if you're familiar with the region you should realize that means 90% of my coworkers are Indian  From talking with the guys a lot of them are terrified that Modi was voted in, but a lot of these guys are Muslims who left because in their words there are no good careers in India if you are a Muslim. They're basically under the impression that with Modi in charge it's official that not being Hindu is a crime. I really can't judge accurately because everything I've been told has a definite bias but it does seem like minorities are basically screwed?
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May 18, 2014 08:10
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Didn't he moderate his tone recently? I guess there is that. Im of the school that people will get sick of religious parties sooner or later and vote them out.
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May 18, 2014 08:22
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The poorer and more desperate people are the more likely they are to vote for The Super Muslim Bros. or BJP types but they almost always learn you can't magic your way out of poverty.
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May 18, 2014 08:35
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Aren't those guys huge nationalist crazies on top of being religious fanatics? This doesn't bode well.SpannerX posted:Are you thinking what I think you are thinking? If so, poo poo. I hope my post didn't come out as a "You who else was an extreme nationalist? That's right." I'm just worried for people who might be affected by a government that only cares about one set of people, and actively dislike another. Edit: Oh yeah, Pakistan. Yeah I didn't think about this. 
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May 18, 2014 10:23
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Kurtofan posted:Aren't those guys huge nationalist crazies on top of being religious fanatics? This doesn't bode well. Are you thinking what I think you are thinking? If so, poo poo.
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May 18, 2014 10:38
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I work in Kuwait, if you're familiar with the region you should realize that means 90% of my coworkers are Indian What is interesting is that I have been told by Indians and historians of modern India that Hindu expats are more likely to be BJP supporters than Hindus in India. I think they were referring to expats who settled in the West, though. The explanations given are normally that the experience of racism and othering gives them a stronger belief in Hindu nationalism because it appears to defend their cultural heritage more stridently (in the same way that having your "different" characteristics highlighted by another group might make you prouder of those characteristics or even chauvinistic about them), or that they get mistaken for Muslims and feel the need to differentiate themselves from them. I'm not sure if there is any way to actually confirm any of this, because the evidence given to me was that the BJP's biggest donors were wealthy expats, and that doesn't say anything about poor or middle class emigrants. Plus, rich people are more likely to be doing it to try and stimulate economic liberalization than anything else, I feel. Weldon Pemberton fucked around with this message at 14:46 on May 18, 2014 |
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May 18, 2014 14:43
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The Western media is fawning over this guy to an absurd level. "India's Obama", "An India ready to dream big"...
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May 18, 2014 16:32
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FizFashizzle posted:Email me. User name at gmail dot com. There's something amusing to me that the first speech goes from 8 words to 10, and the second goes from from 16 to 5. Also, I'm not exactly a linguist but I'm pretty sure I see 'Pakistan' in the original and not in the translation.
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May 18, 2014 16:40
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SpannerX posted:Are you thinking what I think you are thinking? If so, poo poo. Yeah, this is not exactly going to bode well for security in the region. It's quite possible that the next few years might just make the Kargil War and more recent Bombay Bombings look like a warm up lap. ComradeCosmobot fucked around with this message at 17:09 on May 18, 2014 |
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May 18, 2014 17:07
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Weldon Pemberton posted:What is interesting is that I have been told by Indians and historians of modern India that Hindu expats are more likely to be BJP supporters than Hindus in India. Expats everywhere tend to be more nationalistic than people in their home country, that's not just a Hindu/Indian thing. When you live somewhere it's just, you know, there; it's your day to day. When it's the Old Country that you probably sometimes feel homesick for but on the other hand don't spend much time in, it's easier to romanticise it.
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May 18, 2014 17:26
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Badger of Basra posted:Your friend is real dumb. I've seen plenty of comments like his friend's on the internet, what does Modi brings to the table economically that makes him so popular? Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 17:40 on May 18, 2014 |
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May 18, 2014 17:33
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Kurtofan posted:I've seen plenty of comments like his friend's on the internet, what does Modi brings to the table economically that makes him so popular? He was premier of Gujarat and is known for his "Gujarat model" that has lead to economic growth. Spoilers: the Gujarat model is just neoliberalism, and the growth has been very unevenly distributed. Doesn't stop the western media from fawning over him, though.
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May 18, 2014 17:45
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Kurtofan posted:I've seen plenty of comments like his friend's on the internet, what does Modi brings to the table economically that makes him so popular? He gets lots of praise in the WSJ for being a "maverick" unafraid to sell the public sector to foreign companies or something. Child malnutrition, women's health and many other HDI indicators have gotten worse, and several other states have done as well or better over the past decade. Of course he'll receive uncritical support from business interests in India and abroad. OwlBot 2000 fucked around with this message at 17:53 on May 18, 2014 |
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May 18, 2014 17:47
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Badger of Basra posted:He was premier of Gujarat and is known for his "Gujarat model" that has lead to economic growth. Spoilers: the Gujarat model is just neoliberalism, and the growth has been very unevenly distributed. Doesn't stop the western media from fawning over him, though. I don't see the "Gujarat model" doing much for the country especially since the high economic growth that was happening there was just part of a local bubble and even then as you said it was unevenly distributed. It is clear why the Western media is enthralled with him. Anyway as discussed earlier, India needs exports to fuel that type of growth to begin with, and it is unclear what would be none otherwise since domestic consumption is still going to be low. I could Modi's attitude toward religion coupled with his developmental model as a potential recipe for disaster, religious intolerance plus even a greater gap between rich and poor isn't something that mixes well. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 19:26 on May 18, 2014 |
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May 18, 2014 18:23
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Owlbot did you figure out what should be done with the Indians after all?
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May 18, 2014 18:51
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Oh no, Indians are great, it's India as a political entity that (debatably) needs to get its act together. I have no knowledge or anything to contribute on the topic besides an inflammatory and attention-grabbing thread title.
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May 18, 2014 19:16
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Is the western media fawning over Modi? All I've heard is that he's a religious chauvinist (totally reformed and moved to the center guys, really!) right winger who will likely accelerate the drift towards India becoming stridently antagonistic to American interests.
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May 18, 2014 20:44
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Yup, the Economist, neoliberal paper of note, refused to endorse Modi due to his involvement in the anti Muslim pogrom. I'm not sure Western media has been that fawning of him.
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May 18, 2014 20:55
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Badger of Basra posted:He was premier of Gujarat and is known for his "Gujarat model" that has lead to economic growth. Spoilers: the Gujarat model is just neoliberalism, and the growth has been very unevenly distributed. Doesn't stop the western media from fawning over him, though. What about the opposing 'Kerala model'? Can someone familiar with the subject elaborate on it a bit?
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May 18, 2014 21:08
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Berke Negri posted:Is the western media fawning over Modi? All I've heard is that he's a religious chauvinist (totally reformed and moved to the center guys, really!) right winger who will likely accelerate the drift towards India becoming stridently antagonistic to American interests. The impression the  Western Media has given me is that Modi is a worrying right-wing proto-fascist with ties to horrendous bloody riots but that the alternative was a party that has handed down leadership to family members four times so far. Neither choice sounded good to me.Accurate?
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May 18, 2014 21:15
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Gort posted:The impression the The Modi article in the New Statesmen by William Dalrymple is the most extensive, detail-oriented piece I've seen out there. http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/05/narendra-modi-man-masses Some highlights quote:Modi returned from his pilgrimage and set up a tea cart outside the Ahmedabad bus stand, and it was here that he found a new family: the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) or Association of National Volunteers, which started life in 1925 as a far-right paramilitary organisation. quote:Modi took office on 7 October 2001. He had been chief minister only four months when, on 27 February, a party of Hindutva activists, returning from Ayodhya, where they had been holding a tenth-anniversary celebration of the destruction of the Babri Masjid, were caught in a burning wagon as their train stopped in Godhra station. Fifty-nine people were burned to death. A subsequent investigation found that the fire started by accident, due to a malfunctioning gas cylinder, but Modi, without evidence, immediately announced that it was a Pakistani-Muslim conspiracy. He called a statewide strike and had the burned bodies of the Hindutva activists paraded around Ahmedabad while he made a series of incendiary speeches. TLDR; yes he's a fascist, but one smart enough to tone it down for the purpose of not scaring off international business. edit: and yes your assessment the situation re: the Gandhi family is generally correct. Redgrendel2001 fucked around with this message at 01:12 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 01:09
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Is that TLDR your assessment of Modi or the article because the excerpts you posted basically painted him as "hindu nazi monster". If in the end that article came to the conclusion of your TLDR I would be shocked at the cynicism of the author.
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May 19, 2014 01:45
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Berke Negri posted:Is that TLDR your assessment of Modi or the article because the excerpts you posted basically painted him as "hindu nazi monster". If in the end that article came to the conclusion of your TLDR I would be shocked at the cynicism of the author. Both my assessment and the author's. He also includes a lot about Modi's general politics and how he's toned it down recently.
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May 19, 2014 03:53
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Berke Negri posted:Is that TLDR your assessment of Modi or the article because the excerpts you posted basically painted him as "hindu nazi monster". If in the end that article came to the conclusion of your TLDR I would be shocked at the cynicism of the author. The article also paints Modi as legitimately trying to advance India as a Hindu world power and not some cynical rabble-rouser that is willing to intentionally sink India economically or irradiate India and Pakistanto pursue ethnic grudges. Even if Modi is a trainwreck, there are limits to the damage he can do: New Statesman posted:Others take comfort in the idea that India has many constraints that will slow down any attempt Modi may make to turn the prime minister’s office into some autocratic powerhouse. India has, after all, a pugnacious press and an active judiciary. It is a hugely diverse country and its history shows that, in the end, all its rulers need to embrace that diversity in order to govern effectively. “He wants to be in power for a long time,” the veteran editor Shekhar Gupta was recently quoted as saying. “[At 63] he is young by Indian standards, and that is not going to work with a purely polarising agenda. What works in Gujarat does not work in the rest of India.” quote:Here lies the one big surprise the election may yet hold. For the most important trend in Indian politics over the past 20 years has been the apparently irreversible rise of strong regional parties as both Congress and the BJP have lost a growing number of seats to strongmen ruling through an alphabet soup of local party acronyms: the TMC in West Bengal, the BJD in Orissa, the DMK and AIADMK in Tamil Nadu, and so on. If Israeli politics is increasingly about small religious parties gaining a disproportionate degree of influence by controlling small vote banks that can swing elections and decide the balance of power, the same is true of the regional parties in India. In the event, for all the media excitement about the rise of Modi and the fall of the Nehru-Gandhis, this election could be about the less glamorous and more complex story of an India where the regional tail is increasingly wagging the federal dog. America Inc. fucked around with this message at 04:22 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 03:54
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