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Austrian mook posted:Why does regular season success not matter? Isn't the whole reason we generally disregard players playoff performances in an analysis because we're looking for the larger sample size? Why is the same not true for entire teams? Because the Stanley Cup is awesome and the President's Trophy is dumb.
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May 27, 2014 22:59
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HootTheOwl posted:The Kings have been to the WCF three straight times, won a cup and are looking to win another and we're debating if they're actually a good team? No, we're not debating that, what are you talking about?
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May 27, 2014 23:02
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HootTheOwl posted:The Kings have been to the WCF three straight times, won a cup and are looking to win another and we're debating if they're actually a good team? Wow! Who's saying that?!
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May 27, 2014 23:04
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The Kings are an undeniably good hockey team, but I'm just incredibly sick of the ongoing narrative that whoever wins the East may as well just grab their ankles and forfeit the SCF ahead of time
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May 27, 2014 23:09
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Wamsutta posted:The Kings are an undeniably good hockey team, but I'm just incredibly sick of the ongoing narrative that whoever wins the East may as well just grab their ankles and forfeit the SCF ahead of time It's true though.
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May 27, 2014 23:10
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The Casualty posted:Quick was hurt this year, there was a good chunk of time where they were playing Ben Scrivens and Martin Jones about 50/50, and then once Quick returned, Jones had been so hot (he was something ridiculous like 9-2 when Quick returned) that it took a few weeks before they settled into a conventional primary/backup rotation. The backups played significantly better than Quick anyway... which makes his solo Jennings ridiculous because they earned it, not him.
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May 27, 2014 23:11
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Ginette Reno posted:It's true though. Destiny won't be denied. 20 years since 1994, 10 years since Marty and Brad won a cup together...
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May 27, 2014 23:18
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Levitate posted:Destiny won't be denied. 20 years since 1994, 10 years since Marty and Brad won a cup together... If things start going south for the rangers in the SCF I'm gonna have MSL's father killed. Because it's the Cup.
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May 27, 2014 23:19
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OldSenileGuy posted:If things start going south for the rangers in the SCF I'm gonna have MSL's father killed. 
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May 27, 2014 23:20
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Aphrodite posted:The backups played significantly better than Quick anyway... which makes his solo Jennings ridiculous because they earned it, not him. The Jennings should be a team award in any case.
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May 27, 2014 23:27
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Ginette Reno posted:What in the world are you talking about? Sutter doesn't magically coach harder when the playoffs arrive. Do you think most coaching happens in-game, or something? Do you think all practices are equal? Do you think practices don't have an affect on games? ThinkTank posted:I'm well aware that the Kings are fancy stat/possession wizards, but what's the point of all that if it doesn't translate into wins/points in the standings? Are you telling me that Sutter deliberately loses games or tells his players to take their foot off the gas for stretches during the season? What's the point of regular season success if it doesn't translate to post-season success? The Kings have already conclusively proven that for them at least, and they've barely changed since they won the Cup, it doesn't. Playoff seeding doesn't even matter for them. Even just psychologically, that's actually something Sutter probably has to factor into how he handles things. There's an even more limited amount of losing his poo poo over meaningless games he can do before they'll tune him out (ala Torts), because unlike every other team in the league, they know they can get it done without home ice, and frankly the psychological advantage that conveys is probably way more important than being incredibly tryhard about the President's Trophy or winning the division. I'm sure he does quite a bit of losing his poo poo over poor effort in meaningless regular season games, still, despite that, but if you don't think it's a factor you're nuts. Again: do you think most coaching happens in-game? And Quick doesn't deliberately suck in the regular season, no loving poo poo, but he definitely gets a lot more leeway than even other starters given how mediocre-to-average he is in the regular season, not even so much in the number of games played as just how much he's allowed to suck during the regular season and just how much better his backups have to be in order to stay in. There are plenty of times over the last few seasons where Sutter could have made a choice not to start Quick and probably had a better chance to win a (meaningless, regular season) game with one of the other goalies, and he chose not to. I don't think he's stupid enough not to realize it. Like I said, it's complicated by the injury.
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May 27, 2014 23:30
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OldSenileGuy posted:If things start going south for the rangers in the SCF I'm gonna have MSL's father killed.
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May 27, 2014 23:30
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Actually there's probably a lot less coaching (e: I meant practicing) happening in the playoffs because you don't have as much time between games and your players are tired. Also, again, that's all a bunch of meandering words with no real conclusion. What makes the Kings "built for the playoffs" over "built for the regular season" or "built for both"? Or more to the point, why does "built for the playoffs" mean that they aren't as good during the regular season? Saying "they just flip the mental switch" or "the coach tries harder" during the playoffs really isn't a good answer unless there's something to back it up Levitate fucked around with this message at 23:36 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 23:34
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LmaoTheKid posted:So do the Kings drop confetti after all wins or was that some kind of malfunction last night? Did you forget how we did it 2 years ago
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May 27, 2014 23:35
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HELLO LADIES posted:Do you think most coaching happens in-game, or something? Do you think all practices are equal? Do you think practices don't have an affect on games? Coaches don't coach differently in the playoffs. Players don't play differently in the playoffs. It's all narratives we apply after the fact.
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May 27, 2014 23:35
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The biggest changes I see between regular season and playoffs is refs swallow their whistles, players play through more bullshit injuries, and players smash each other into the boards a little bit harder. Oh and the quality of competition goes up a fair amount because all the bad teams are out of the picture. Pretty much everything else is ~*storylines*~.
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May 27, 2014 23:37
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HELLO LADIES posted:And Quick doesn't deliberately suck in the regular season, no loving poo poo, but he definitely gets a lot more leeway than even other starters given how mediocre-to-average he is in the regular season, not even so much in the number of games played as just how much he's allowed to suck during the regular season and just how much better his backups have to be in order to stay in. There are plenty of times over the last few seasons where Sutter could have made a choice not to start Quick and probably had a better chance to win a (meaningless, regular season) game with one of the other goalies, and he chose not to. I don't think he's stupid enough not to realize it. Like I said, it's complicated by the injury. basically every coach plays their regarded #1 goalie the great majority of the time in the regular season even if they are not putting up great performances statistically. see jimmy howard, corey crawford, marc-andre fleury
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May 27, 2014 23:39
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Vertical Lime posted:Did you forget how we did it 2 years ago Totally ruins rewatching Game 5 of the Rangers/Caps series a few years ago where Richards tied it with 7 seconds left and Staal won it in overtime. loving Party City streamers I am angry about them 
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May 27, 2014 23:40
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Zamboni Jesus posted:basically every coach plays their regarded #1 goalie the great majority of the time in the regular season even if they are not putting up great performances statistically. see jimmy howard, corey crawford, marc-andre fleury Usually because you're working off a small sample size for your backup and one game could turn that great save percentage into something pedestrian
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May 27, 2014 23:41
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The playoffs is a different format and a different mindset and the Kings have a certain set of hard-earned characteristics that are different from other teams due to what they've been through and basically they've got ice in their veins and are Hard as gently caress
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May 27, 2014 23:46
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Vertical Lime posted:Did you forget how we did it 2 years ago In a non clinching game? I don't remember that.
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May 27, 2014 23:56
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^^^^ I basically blame it on LA being a town obsessed with "the show" aspect of all things entertainment, and the prevailing belief that if something isn't successful and festooned with spectacular visuals, then the casual observer loses interest. I mean, look back in history, the Kings organization used to give all their players crazy nicknames because they thought it would help generate a media narrative to drive up ticket sales. sweet thursday posted:The playoffs is a different format and a different mindset and the Kings have a certain set of hard-earned characteristics that are different from other teams due to what they've been through and basically they've got ice in their veins and are Hard as gently caress Other teams wish they had as much grit, toughness, and tenacity! But mostly grit, because grit is something that you can actually draft for. The Casualty fucked around with this message at 00:00 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 23:57
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This disrespect is relevant for at least 3 more hours. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTHsloNFgTg "Waaa?? I thought you were Marshy.."
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May 28, 2014 00:09
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Aren't the Kings better in the playoffs than the regular season because of the additions they make? 2012 they traded for Carter and brought up King and Nolan who were huge for them. This year they traded for Gaborik and started using Pearson. Their playoff rosters are much better than the teams that got them there.
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May 28, 2014 00:11
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Dont forget Dustin Penner.
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May 28, 2014 00:19
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Ginette Reno posted:It's true though. it's not
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May 28, 2014 00:26
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Don't worry, the Hawks will bring it back for a climatic game 7 where the winner and assured stanley cup champion will face and ultimately be swept by a red hot Henrik Lundqvist in a series of extremely boring games, reminding everyone that they are in fact watching the nhl.
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May 28, 2014 00:28
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anyone who thinks a hot goalie dominating a game is boring hockey is bad and understands/enjoys hockey in a bad and wrong way
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May 28, 2014 00:33
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onemillionzombies posted:Don't worry, the Hawks will bring it back for a climatic game 7 where the winner and assured stanley cup champion will face and ultimately be swept by a red hot Henrik Lundqvist in a series of extremely boring games, reminding everyone that they are in fact watching the nhl. I'd be thoroughly okay with that. Lundqvist deserves a cup after being one of the NHL's best netminders for quite some time now.
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May 28, 2014 00:33
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It appears that Emelin is out and Beaulieu is back in tonight. Sure, whatever.
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May 28, 2014 00:34
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Stepan is indeed playing on the top line e: or at least practicing there Vertical Lime fucked around with this message at 00:39 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 00:36
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Wamsutta posted:The Kings are an undeniably good hockey team, but I'm just incredibly sick of the ongoing narrative that whoever wins the East may as well just grab their ankles and forfeit the SCF ahead of time Nah, only your team.
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May 28, 2014 00:41
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Vertical Lime posted:Stepan is indeed playing on the top line 
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May 28, 2014 00:42
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Zamboni Jesus posted:basically every coach plays their regarded #1 goalie the great majority of the time in the regular season even if they are not putting up great performances statistically. see jimmy howard, corey crawford, marc-andre fleury Yep, I know, that's why I said "even more than other starters". If he was healthy all the time, I think the effect would be more pronounced. As it is, I think he gets a bit more leeway to be lovely than even those goalies get before Sutter will mess with him, and his backups definitely have to be noticeably better than the league average "hot backup" to get any kind of traction and the Schneider-in-Vancouver treatment. NHL coaches are conservative about playing their backups in general and specifically the timing/circumstances of how they play them, I think Sutter is more conservative than most. It's a testament to just how good Martin Jones is that he got to play as much as he did. Compare and contrast Boudreau, for example.
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May 28, 2014 00:44
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evenworse username posted:It appears that Emelin is out and Beaulieu is back in tonight. So Boullion went in for Beaulieu last game and now Beaulieu is going in for Emelin? Probably a good move Vertical Lime posted:Stepan is indeed playing on the top line Sounds like he's back, he was supposed to be a gametime decision but since he's taking warmups that seems like a good sign
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May 28, 2014 00:45
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evenworse username posted:It appears that Emelin is out and Beaulieu is back in tonight. On the one hand I'm glad to see that at least Michel is finally seeing what we've been complaining about all along. On the other hand I'm saddened it's taken this loving long.
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May 28, 2014 00:48
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Andrew Gross says Stepan is in the lineup tonight
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May 28, 2014 00:49
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Xtanstic posted:On the other hand I'm saddened it's taken this loving long. The Michel Therrien story
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May 28, 2014 00:51
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a false posted:it's not I mean obviously anything can happen and any team that makes it to a conference final has proven themselves capable of winning a cup that year but i really don't think either of the eastern teams stand a chance against the west. actually, really just against LAK. i could see NYR beating chicago. without price, i don't see MTL beating anyone. so for LAK vs. NYR, i think i'd pick LAK to win that about 9 times out of 10. and that 1 leftover is only to account for the likelihood that kreider concusses quick on a Totally Legitimate Play (TLP) quote:Coaches don't coach differently in the playoffs. Players don't play differently in the playoffs. It's all narratives we apply after the fact. really? i'm sure it'd be easy to quantify, but i think the conventional wisdom is that there are fewer penalties, especially obstruction-related, called in the playoffs. as a player or a coach, wouldn't it make sense to adapt your game to that new situation? put another way -- i sure HOPE coaches and players behave differently in the playoffs! however, it's probably similar to the leadership discussion from however many pages back -- it's absolutely a real phenomenon, but difficult/impossible to measure and probably has a relatively small impact over a large enough sample. along the same lines, from a pure motivation perspective, i think it's fair to expect (or at least consider) that players might play "harder" in certain situations. for example, the MTL-BOS series was obviously very emotional, and as many noted here, after winning that, MTL was probably mentally drained (i.e., they won their "cup" already). this could have favored NYR to some degree, as their previous series also ended in a hard-fought game 7, but didn't seem nearly as intense of a rivalry. we joke in SAS about players being hockey robots all the time, but i think that in certain circumstances it's silly to ignore ~~~the human factor~~~. might be difficult to quantify and become noise over the long term, but that's what makes the playoffs interesting -- the team that generated those 82 games worth of data over the past 9 months can be very different from the team getting ready to play game 7, and not purely from a roster standpoint!
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May 28, 2014 00:53
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Levitate posted:So Boullion went in for Beaulieu last game and now Beaulieu is going in for Emelin? There's some speculation that Emelin is hurt (apparently he took a shot off the knee last game) but equally he's been awful this series so who knows.
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May 28, 2014 00:54
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