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Sharkie posted:I'm still not sure what you meant by "traditional feminist views" in this quote: Oh, I just mean attributing everything to the amorphous "patriarchy." That is stupid, and non-materialist.
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May 27, 2014 23:42
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Munkeymon posted:I remember how that doesn't loving matter at goddman all because his intent was to literally massacre a sorority. I have to imagine that anyone who thinks the final death toll matters in the face of all the other factors at play here would still see no issue even if the death count had included mostly women.
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May 27, 2014 23:42
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Munkeymon posted:I remember how that doesn't loving matter at goddman all because his intent was to literally massacre a sorority. when his point was that those who lash out with violence rarely succeed in successfully maximizing harm to the objects of their rage then yes it actually does matter quite a bit I mean his entire post relied on acknowledging that Elliot fundamentally wanted to harm women its good to feel things, but it's sometimes good to read the posts you're responding to too LGD fucked around with this message at 23:45 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 23:43
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A Winner is Jew posted:I'm fine with lumping tumblr's SJW culture with MRA's, and for that matter any other "activist culture" that's cool using violent rhetoric. #KillAllMen
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May 27, 2014 23:47
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Can we talk about Toxic Forums Culture? Whether it be ShitRedditSays, PUAs, Stormfront, or SJW tumblrs, getting validation for your extremist views in secret is probably not very healthy.
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May 27, 2014 23:49
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Powercrazy posted:#KillAllMen Ah but you see that's justified because middle class whites who post on Tumblr are just lashing out at their oppressors.
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May 27, 2014 23:50
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Slobjob Zizek posted:Oh, I just mean attributing everything to the amorphous "patriarchy." That is stupid, and non-materialist. In all seriousness, "feminism" is a complex group of topics that is far from monolithic, and I encourage you to actually read feminist texts and authors rather than relying on what you've been told feminism is, because I assure you materialist feminism exists, has had countless volumes written about it, and you may find it useful or interesting.
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May 27, 2014 23:50
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Powercrazy posted:#KillAllMen If someone who is violently anti-men and posts on the internet about wanting to kill all men, and goes and shoots up a football team I'm gonna bet their ideology plays a part in it.
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May 27, 2014 23:50
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Slobjob Zizek posted:Can we talk about Toxic Forums Culture? Whether it be ShitRedditSays, PUAs, Stormfront, or SJW tumblrs, getting validation for your extremist views in secret is probably not very healthy. Extremism is its own vile and vaguely defined problem. I don't see how getting your kicks from an internet forum makes it worse or different in any meaningful way.
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May 27, 2014 23:51
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Zeitgueist posted:If someone who is violently anti-men and posts on the internet about wanting to kill all men, and goes and shoots up a football team I'm gonna bet their ideology plays a part in it. Which than will lead to drawing the proper conclusions about feminism, namely that shooting a football teamis the logical evolution of feminist ideology?
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May 27, 2014 23:52
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LGD posted:when his point was that those who lash out with violence rarely succeed in successfully maximizing harm to the objects of their rage then yes it actually does matter quite a bit It's still an irrelevance to point out that violent people often hurt people they don't specifically intend to hurt. But, yeah, I probably overreacted a bit based on other morons using that fact to argue against his violent behavior being pretty clearly rooted partially in misogyny.
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May 27, 2014 23:53
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Sharkie posted:In all seriousness, "feminism" is a complex group of topics that is far from monolithic, and I encourage you to actually read feminist texts and authors rather than relying on what you've been told feminism is, because I assure you materialist feminism exists, has had countless volumes written about it, and you may find it useful or interesting. So, you basically have no response. If feminism means nothing, then how is "feminism" relevant to this discussion, without reference to specific works?
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May 27, 2014 23:53
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Slobjob Zizek posted:Can we talk about Toxic Forums Culture? Whether it be ShitRedditSays, PUAs, Stormfront, or SJW tumblrs, getting validation for your extremist views in secret is probably not very healthy. I'm fine with this and I agree that it's inherently unhealthy, especially for those that are already mentally unstable like Rogers and a host of other spree killers that found validation on their warped views of reality by going to places where violent rhetoric against "supposed" oppressor is the norm.
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May 27, 2014 23:53
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EasternBronze posted:Which than will lead to drawing the proper conclusions about feminism, namely that shooting a football teamis the logical evolution of feminist ideology? If a football team got murdered and suddenly football players from around the country were coming out with their stories of being harassed and threatened by feminists, I think that would be very eye opening.
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May 27, 2014 23:54
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EasternBronze posted:Which than will lead to drawing the proper conclusions about feminism, namely that shooting a football teamis the logical evolution of feminist ideology? Except that it isn't, because feminist ideology is for the equality of both sexes, not man-hating. Whereas MRAs/PUA's are pretty much exclusively about misogyny. Comparing feminism to MRA's rather than anti-male groups is dumb as poo poo.
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May 27, 2014 23:55
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EasternBronze posted:Which than will lead to drawing the proper conclusions about feminism, namely that shooting a football teamis the logical evolution of feminist ideology? You have no idea what the word feminism means, probably also other words edit: but yes, in the bizarro world where this thing you said takes place, then yet it could lead to those conclusions and you would be correct
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May 27, 2014 23:56
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Spiffo posted:You have no idea what the word feminism means, probably also other words Such as "than" and "then". e: also "it's" and "its". EasternBronze posted:The guy hated men and women for irrational reasons and than went out and killed a bunch of people. EasternBronze posted:If we want a more equal society than we should be trying to... EasternBronze posted:Well than he's wrong. Just as I'd be wrong if I identified with the snootiest Scottish clans and demanded a gorgeous red-headed girlfriend. Some sort of MRA bat signal has gone up, just look at the next 3 posts below this. Kyrie eleison posted:Does feminism entail men's rights? If women have equal rights to men, than men have equal rights to women. This is literally self evident and the fact that MRAs think feminism is about putting women above men is utterly hilarious. WarEternal fucked around with this message at 00:02 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 23:56
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Feminism, is like, whatever we say it to be.
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May 27, 2014 23:57
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Does feminism entail men's rights?
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May 27, 2014 23:57
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Zeitgueist posted:Except that it isn't, because feminist ideology is for the equality of both sexes, not man-hating. Just because your cause is just doesn't mean everything under its umbrella is automatically correct. Its almost as if these "ideologies" are just broad definitions and actually encompass alot of different beliefs and ideas, some of which contradictory!
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May 27, 2014 23:57
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Slobjob Zizek posted:So, you basically have no response. If feminism means nothing, then how is "feminism" relevant to this discussion, without reference to specific works? Haha, okay. A "complex group of topics that is far from monolithic" != "means nothing." Your complaint was about materialism and I in good faith pointed you in a direction. You're either not arguing in good faith or you're determined to not learn. Really, Spiffo posted:You have no idea what the word feminism means, probably also other words
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May 27, 2014 23:59
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EasternBronze posted:Just because your cause is just doesn't mean everything under its umbrella is automatically correct. Its almost as if these "ideologies" are just broad definitions and actually encompass alot of different beliefs and ideas, some of which contradictory! You need to cite a long-dead extreme feminist (who was considered extreme even in her time by her peers) in order to paint it as hateful, whereas to paint MRAs hateful we can point to pretty any MRA thing
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May 28, 2014 00:00
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EasternBronze posted:I got it, feminism doesn't have extremists because everyone in it is good. Its almost as if these "ideologies" are just broad definitions and actually encompass alot of different beliefs and ideas, some of which contradictory! Except that MRA has NO redeeming qualities. There may be extremist feminists, but ALL MRAs are extremists, by definition. Men have ALL the rights we need.
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May 28, 2014 00:01
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Sharkie posted:Haha, okay. A "complex group of topics that is far from monolithic" != "means nothing." Your complaint was about materialism and I in good faith pointed you in a direction. You're either not arguing in good faith or you're determined to not learn. Really, You're arguing in bad faith if you are appealing to authority and not providing any actual references. I mean, this thread is basically a joke, but still...
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May 28, 2014 00:01
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The ghosts of Valerie Solanas and Andrea Dworkin have been spotted putting up signs around various cities saying Don't Be That Mass Shooter
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May 28, 2014 00:02
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It seems pretty clear to me that a feminism without men's rights is anti-men, and a men's rights movement without women's rights is anti-women. Personally I don't understand why people don't call it the "gender equality" movement, since that is its ostensible intention. Spiffo posted:The ghosts of Valerie Solanas and Andrea Dworkin have been spotted putting up signs around various cities saying Don't Be That Mass Shooter But Solanas did shoot someone. Does she classify as "feminist" or doesn't she?
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May 28, 2014 00:05
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Kyrie eleison posted:Does feminism entail men's rights? All of them, unless you are a divorced male with no chance for custody of your child who has to pay alimony, or you want to be a school teacher, or a nurse.
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May 28, 2014 00:05
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Slobjob Zizek posted:Feminism, is like, whatever we say it to be. Yeah man, it's not as if it doesn't have a clearly defined indeology that has been repeated over and over and over for decades with entire college programs built around it. You are so knowledgeable about feminism I think my job is done here and I'll just stop responding to your Awesome Good Faith Posting. Kyrie eleison posted:Does feminism entail men's rights? Feminism promotes equality of all genders/sexes. Not all feminists agree with that, because there are assholes in every group, but the ideology is pretty consistent on this.
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May 28, 2014 00:05
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Powercrazy posted:All of them, unless you are a divorced male with no chance for custody of your child who has to pay alimony, or you want to be a school teacher, or a nurse. You sound like one of those extremists. Bad things effecting men in society are caused by the Patriarchy and Feminism is the answer. We know this because the Patriarchy is the bad things that effect people in society.
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May 28, 2014 00:07
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EasternBronze posted:You sound like one of those extremists. sex is really the only thing that can be said to effect people in society
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May 28, 2014 00:08
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Zeitgueist posted:Yeah man, it's not as if it doesn't have a clearly defined indeology that has been repeated over and over and over for decades with entire college programs built around it. Ooh, great appeal to authority. Quick question: does "feminism" mean anything other than "men and women should be equal" plus some conspiracy theory-esque conception of "the patriarchy"?
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May 28, 2014 00:09
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Kyrie eleison posted:Personally I don't understand why people don't call it the "gender equality" movement, since that is its ostensible intention. Because it started as mainly as a means to get women on equal footing with men, and it's since expanded from that foundation. It also was primarily white in earlier generations, but it's not racist now(or not as racist). poo poo changes. Also generally the only people who give a poo poo about the name are people who probably weren't going to be swayed by the ideology in the first place.
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May 28, 2014 00:09
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poo poo, maybe Feminism is now about killing men. Probably the truth is in the middle. Or on PUA boards!
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May 28, 2014 00:11
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Kyrie eleison posted:It seems pretty clear to me that a feminism without men's rights is anti-men, and a men's rights movement without women's rights is anti-women. Women weren't allowed to vote in the US less than 100 years ago. The fact that the movement acknowledges that women have it worse than men do isn't actually a problem.
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May 28, 2014 00:11
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Slobjob Zizek posted:Ooh, great appeal to authority. Quick question: does "feminism" mean anything other than "men and women should be equal" plus some conspiracy theory-esque conception of "the patriarchy"? Tell us more about these impossible ideals society has built for all men, and how Elliot Rodger was simply the great equalizer of feminized society.
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May 28, 2014 00:11
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Wow, I'm shocked that the people saying misogyny had nothing to do with this and should be left unexplored are now complaining about feminism. Oh wait no I'm not.
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May 28, 2014 00:12
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Zeitgueist posted:Because it started as mainly as a means to get women on equal footing with men, and it's since expanded from that foundation. It also was primarily white in earlier generations, but it's not racist now(or not as racist). Are you kidding? No one cares about the substance of anything. Look at this ridiculous cross-talk argument everyone is having. Marketing is everything.
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May 28, 2014 00:12
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I no-joke agree with probably 80% of what would be considered a mainline feminist platform. Probably more. I just think the way in which they make most of their conclusions are horribly flawed. Reflexively invoking the Patriarchy for anything bad in society is incredibly intellectually lazy.
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May 28, 2014 00:16
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EasternBronze posted:I no-joke agree with probably 80% of what would be considered a mainline feminist platform. Probably more. Oh, so you've done a lot of research to come to the conclusion that they reflexively invoke the patriarchy with no thought? Or are you just reflexively assuming that's what they're doing because you don't know what the gently caress you're talking about?
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May 28, 2014 00:18
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Lemming posted:Oh, so you've done a lot of research to come to the conclusion that they reflexively invoke the patriarchy with no thought? Or are you just reflexively assuming that's what they're doing because you don't know what the gently caress you're talking about? What is the patriarchy? Define it, very specifically, please.
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