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caberham posted:She's the one who is disturbed about prostitutes selling their bodies making decent money and going to hell instead of working dead end jobs and not going to heaven She's going to hell anyway _______________/  e: Calvinism snipe
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Jun 4, 2014 21:23
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| # ? May 18, 2024 01:46 |
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I just made an album of some people trying to march from Victoria park after the candle light vigil to the Office of Liason China Affairs Hong Kong. Here's a sneak peek! Cross posting from LAN Imperialist Dog is this you? It's got to be some lurker, streaming into his ipad and peeking out from a light post
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Jun 4, 2014 21:31
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China and Japan both have this thing going on where they're not very religious, but they're highly superstitious. I think that's the best way to explain it. -Posted from my apartment rented at a 30% discount because people committed suicide in it a decade ago.
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Jun 4, 2014 22:01
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Bloodnose posted:China and Japan both have this thing going on where they're not very religious, but they're highly superstitious. I think that's the best way to explain it. I had no idea that kind of superstition is a thing. In what other ways does it show up?
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Jun 4, 2014 22:11
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Fojar38 posted:I had no idea that kind of superstition is a thing. In what other ways does it show up? A lot of buildings don't have a fourth floor (although some buildings in the west don't have a 13th floor).
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Jun 4, 2014 22:15
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Optimus Subprime posted:A lot of buildings don't have a fourth floor (although some buildings in the west don't have a 13th floor). The building I'm living in right now in Canada doesn't have a 13th floor, though it's an older building.
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Jun 4, 2014 22:16
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Are underground churches still a thing in China?
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Jun 4, 2014 22:28
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Optimus Subprime posted:A lot of buildings don't have a fourth floor (although some buildings in the west don't have a 13th floor). All newer private residential buildings in Hong Kong skip floors 4, 13, 14, 24, 34 and so on. The newer, most expensive luxury buildings skip everything 40-49 because units on those floors sell for less. A beautiful mixture of superstition and capitalism. 8, 18 and 88 are the most sought-after numbers (they sound like 發, which can kinda be construed as "get rich" in Cantonese), to the point that a famous building in the Mid-levels skips right from 68 to 88 in its floor numbering. Otherwise, you still see little Earth God idols outside shops everywhere and you'll usually see a Wealth God or a Guan Yu in small business shops. Guan Yu's presence, I've been told, is usually indicative of a triad affiliation, by the way. People generally respect idols and holy places not out of religious adoration but out of a superstitious fear of reprisal. And contrary to what Franks Happy Place said about temple tourism, busloads of mainlanders still head straight for Wong Tai Sin Temple in Hong Kong where people line up to pray at the altar of the Wealth God. The general idea goes "Hong Kongers are rich. If I pray at a Hong Kong temple, I can get some of their luck and get rich too." It's certainly not the young and educated who take up this line of thinking, but the buses roll up to Wong Tai Sin every day nonetheless.
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Jun 4, 2014 22:42
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Fojar38 posted:I had no idea that kind of superstition is a thing. In what other ways does it show up? Does all of traditional Chinese medicine count?
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Jun 4, 2014 23:29
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Bloodnose posted:And contrary to what Franks Happy Place said about temple tourism, busloads of mainlanders still head straight for Wong Tai Sin Temple in Hong Kong where people line up to pray at the altar of the Wealth God. The general idea goes "Hong Kongers are rich. If I pray at a Hong Kong temple, I can get some of their luck and get rich too." It's certainly not the young and educated who take up this line of thinking, but the buses roll up to Wong Tai Sin every day nonetheless. Like I said, it's just a personal observation, I just know that both times I visited A-Ma in Macau, all the Taiwanese are doing baibais while the giant locust-like hordes of Mainlander package tourists are acting like it's a Leaning Tower of Pisa photo-op. Obviously there was lots of antipathy from the locals/Taiwanese, but Almighty Dollar always wins out. That being said, I climbed Mount Taishan to visit the Confucius ancestral shrine, and there were plenty of observant religious mainlanders making a pilgrimage from all over the country, so again, this is just a generality. Turns out one billion people can have lots of diverse opinions, general trends notwithstanding!
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Jun 4, 2014 23:31
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Fojar38 posted:I had no idea that kind of superstition is a thing. In what other ways does it show up? I don't know if you would call this "superstition" or not, but there quite a food "TCM"-influenced food/lifestyle practices are entirely ridiculous (e.g. cold water is bad for you, though of course you can explain that one as a reasonable way of dissuading people from drinking unfiltered water).
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Jun 4, 2014 23:34
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Smeef posted:Does all of traditional Chinese medicine count? Artemisinin was derived from a plant used in TCM; I wouldn't be so harsh to discount it as herbs and poo poo especially when the status for most of the treatments is unknown because nobody wants to do randomized double blind trials with it.
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Jun 5, 2014 00:58
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Bloodnose posted:China and Japan both have this thing going on where they're not very religious, but they're highly superstitious. I think that's the best way to explain it. Korea is the same way, except add in about 20% of the population that is loving wildly evangelical Christian to a level that's nutty even to me, who grew up in the (edge of the) Bible Belt. Peven Stan posted:Artemisinin was derived from a plant used in TCM; I wouldn't be so harsh to discount it as herbs and poo poo especially when the status for most of the treatments is unknown because nobody wants to do randomized double blind trials with it. There are probably some effective herbs that haven't been studied properly. That isn't TCM though, TCM is a system of balancing humors and qi through the five organs of the body and the elements. It is complete and utter nonsense that is actively destructive to people's lives in East Asia.
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Jun 5, 2014 01:10
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Grand Fromage posted:Korea is the same way, except add in about 20% of the population that is loving wildly evangelical Christian to a level that's nutty even to me, who grew up in the (edge of the) Bible Belt. How did evangelical Christianity get such a strong hold in Korea compared to China or Japan?
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Jun 5, 2014 01:29
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Badger of Basra posted:How did evangelical Christianity get such a strong hold in Korea compared to China or Japan? I would like to see an explanation too. There are much more Korean churches in Flushing than Chinese churches.
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Jun 5, 2014 01:38
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Besides my office, every other space on my floor is an evangelical church. I grew up in the south as well and find the number of fundamentalist and extreme evangelicals super annoying. As a Christian, myself, no less.
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Jun 5, 2014 01:40
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Badger of Basra posted:How did evangelical Christianity get such a strong hold in Korea compared to China or Japan? Christian missionaries had a lot more success here, I'm not sure that there's any particular reason you can point to. Korea never had any organized resistance against them from the government the way, say, Japan did. Christians also played a notable role in the resistance movements against the Japanese. In modern times, the government is largely Christian controlled so Christianity has power. The Christians are also super aggressive in general. I've rarely met a Korean Christian who was just into Jesus and calm, the majority I've encountered are evangelical and insufferable. Cults also flourish here in a way I never saw in the US. I'm not even surprised when I meet cult members anymore, it's so common. I suspect the same submission to authority in the culture that makes you never resist someone with higher status also makes cults and cult-like entities have more success. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jun 5, 2014 |
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Jun 5, 2014 01:50
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synertia posted:Besides my office, every other space on my floor is an evangelical church. I grew up in the south as well and find the number of fundamentalist and extreme evangelicals super annoying. As a Christian, myself, no less. Yeah but Hong Kong was a colony of a literally Christian country (as in, having a state church) for a century and a half. Christianity's presence here relative to the rest of Asia is pretty unsurprising.
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Jun 5, 2014 05:24
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We should start a 古恩教 cult. Cheeto dust and steam achievements are the marks of holiness. Give us your money and sleep with us for unspecified rewards in the Great Gas Chamber in the sky.
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Jun 5, 2014 05:28
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Bloodnose posted:Yeah but Hong Kong was a colony of a literally Christian country (as in, having a state church) for a century and a half. Christianity's presence here relative to the rest of Asia is pretty unsurprising. But I'd expect a more traditional church like I'm used to where people dress up and sing hymns. Most of what I see here are people with their eyes closed and swaying back and forth with their arms out singing those almost too happy songs with a guitar.
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Jun 5, 2014 05:32
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synertia posted:Most of what I see here are people with their eyes closed and swaying back and forth with their arms out singing those almost too happy songs with a guitar. That's what I thought Christianity was. In more Tiananmen news, the Economist shared their contemporary cover story about the massacre. It's a sad read because everything they wrote makes perfect sense and is pretty but has so far turned out to be wrong.
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Jun 5, 2014 06:00
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More Hong Kong talk? I promise that before I get to Europe tonight I will write what happened last night after the vigil. I'm sure other news outlets will cover the march to the Office of the Chinese Liason Affairs from Victoria Park. I'm here to talk about Cops and crowd control in HK  I think this photo sums up life in Hong Kong pretty well 
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Jun 5, 2014 06:30
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Grand Fromage posted:Christian missionaries had a lot more success here, I'm not sure that there's any particular reason you can point to. Korea never had any organized resistance against them from the government the way, say, Japan did. Christians also played a notable role in the resistance movements against the Japanese. In modern times, the government is largely Christian controlled so Christianity has power. The Christians are also super aggressive in general. I've rarely met a Korean Christian who was just into Jesus and calm, the majority I've encountered are evangelical and insufferable. It's false to say there was never any organized resistance to christianity in Korea. In the 19th century thousands of christians were killed in extensive persecutions. Though at the same time Christianity was rising you also saw the appearance of weird cults like the Donghak which represented a strange fusion of Korean tradition and nationalism with western philosophy. These were the guys whose rebellion sparked the Sino-Japanese war, one of steps on the way to Japan's eventual conquest of Korea.
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Jun 5, 2014 06:33
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Bloodnose posted:That's what I thought Christianity was. Christianity and gaming I am not casual.
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Jun 5, 2014 06:34
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Squalid posted:It's false to say there was never any organized resistance to christianity in Korea. In the 19th century thousands of christians were killed in extensive persecutions. Though at the same time Christianity was rising you also saw the appearance of weird cults like the Donghak which represented a strange fusion of Korean tradition and nationalism with western philosophy. These were the guys whose rebellion sparked the Sino-Japanese war, one of steps on the way to Japan's eventual conquest of Korea. Ah, the problem was I was getting history from Koreans. It looks like it was just Catholics during the persecution era, and Catholics aren't considered Christians here. Christian means Protestant.
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Jun 5, 2014 06:46
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Good god it's the thirty years war all over again!
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Jun 5, 2014 06:52
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I'm not sure how much of it is theological difference/the same crazy stuff I've heard American evangelicals saying about Catholics, and how much is just a language thing. They're totally different words and if you didn't grow up in a culture steeped in the tradition where you'd know, you might not have any awareness they're branches of the same thing.
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Jun 5, 2014 07:00
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Grand Fromage posted:I'm not sure how much of it is theological difference/the same crazy stuff I've heard American evangelicals saying about Catholics, and how much is just a language thing. They're totally different words and if you didn't grow up in a culture steeped in the tradition where you'd know, you might not have any awareness they're branches of the same thing. Anti-Catholic sentiment among American Protestants had more to do with racism towards Catholic immigrants in the 19th Century. I get the feeling Korean/East Asian Christians are much more cultish than your standard American Baptist/Liberal Protestant/Catholic. The closest comparison would be Mormons or Scientologists. They also hate Catholics and people not in their club, but it's more of a general true believer 'enjoy hell, sinner', whereas the classic anti-Catholicism is more old school southern/WASP racism.
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Jun 5, 2014 07:08
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I have family who are converts. I used to read Jack Chick comic books and my folks flipped when they found me playing magic the gathering. Yeah, they like to identify themselves as hard core protestants and blame Catholicism for not following the word of God. Called them 異端， yiduan (heretics). Convert Chinese protestants can get really hardcore. It's too bad that the hk democrats have a large chunk of Christians who denounce communism, preach freedom and religion yet hate homosexuals and defend "family.values". You can even see many charities and schools here have that Christian streak. I call them boring middle class closet bigoted Christians.
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Jun 5, 2014 07:17
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caberham posted:I call them boring middle class closet bigoted Christians. Is there nothing that the Chinese won't pirate from America?
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Jun 5, 2014 07:20
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caberham posted:You can even see many charities and schools here have that Christian streak.. That's because they are literally Christian schools and charities.
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Jun 5, 2014 07:30
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Chickenwalker fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Mar 11, 2019 |
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Jun 5, 2014 07:31
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Chickenwalker posted:Man, China is really upping the ante on crazy lately. The further out from the Olympics we get the less of a poo poo they seem to give about playing nice. Is this a false flag post?
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Jun 5, 2014 07:33
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Chickenwalker posted:I'd recommend Jonathan Spence's "The Search for Modern China." It covers in pretty good depth the Qing up through the modern day. I'd second this. His book is probably the only uni-grade general history of the period that's sufficiently readable for general interest too. Great writer, great history. Spence's other work is well-worth a look at when you're done too.
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Jun 5, 2014 07:40
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caberham posted:I just made an album of some people trying to march from Victoria park after the candle light vigil to the Office of Liason China Affairs Hong Kong. Here's a sneak peek! Cross posting from LAN Lol no I'm white and I won't be going until a) I've got residency and can't be deported b) the kids are older and c) I'm secure enough in my job at a Communist school that I know I won't suddenly be in need of employment. Colleague told me a while back that it's not a good idea for me to go as I am white and therefore a media target. I'd hate to have my pic show up in in the Wen Wei Po.
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Jun 5, 2014 07:41
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Bloodnose posted:China and Japan both have this thing going on where they're not very religious, but they're highly superstitious. I think that's the best way to explain it. Here's the real estate site where you can search by death to make sure your feng shui is on the up-and-up! http://www.squarefoot.com.hk/haunted/
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Jun 5, 2014 07:45
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Smeef posted:Does all of traditional Chinese medicine count? There's loads of this kind of stuff (as with anywhere else to be honest). I remember reading an article recently declaiming several Chinese myths. The first myth was that you couldn't give a watch to someone because it would have very negative implications (you're going to die soon, lol). The author cited as proof that watch sales are huge and climbing ever higher in China and they're routinely given as corporate gifts. Of course the whole reason behind the superstition is one of the homophones for clock （种）is （终）'end' (ie death), whereas watch is a different character and the superstition doesn't apply. I've always thought that was a fairly intricate one. Also, has everyone encountered the 'lamb/oily food gives you nose bleeds' thing? I've also encountered the fan death myth but not too widespread.
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Jun 5, 2014 07:49
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I like how angry China officially gets at even the suggestion that Taiwan could hit mainland targets. Not even in taiwanese official media, just when any defense or newspaper publication mentions it. Resolutely oppose ballistic physics!
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Jun 5, 2014 08:01
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Chickenwalker posted:What in the poo poo kind of R&D does China have that we would even want? How to stack 16 cages of chickens on a single moped? This post overall was kinda wacky but I burst out laughing at this line. Totally using it the next time Chinese friends complain about counterespionage or whatever. Hong XiuQuan posted:There's loads of this kind of stuff (as with anywhere else to be honest). I remember reading an article recently declaiming several Chinese myths. The first myth was that you couldn't give a watch to someone because it would have very negative implications (you're going to die soon, lol). The author cited as proof that watch sales are huge and climbing ever higher in China and they're routinely given as corporate gifts. Of course the whole reason behind the superstition is one of the homophones for clock （种）is （终）'end' (ie death), whereas watch is a different character and the superstition doesn't apply. I've always thought that was a fairly intricate one. What? It's not intricate at all. A clock is 鐘(钟), a watch is 錶 (表). "送鐘" "to give a clock" sounds like "送終" "to impart last rites" (maybe? I suck at translation). At any rate, who gives clocks (or green hats for that matter) as a gift? What I find more urgent is the issue that you cannot give someone an umbrella(傘, umbrella, sounds like 散, to separate), as sometimes I desperately need an umbrella!  Fan death is a South Korea myth, not Chinese Optimistic and ridiculously misleading NY Times headline today: 25 Years Later, Student Leaders Witness Freedoms Fought for in Tiananmen http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/06/world/asia/25-years-later-student-leaders-witness-freedoms-fought-for-in-tiananmen.html?rref=world/asia hitension fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Jun 5, 2014 |
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Jun 5, 2014 10:07
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| # ? May 18, 2024 01:46 |
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Sorry to interrupt superstition chat, here is a run down of events from last night in Hong Kong. Here's the album http://imgur.com/a/93P8B#EpYSXTt Other websites have much clearer pictures of the whole event, but you can see that attendees had to sit outside of the main park area  Lots of different displays and stands, for visitors before entering/leaving Victoria Park.  So you got the Civic Party, People Power, Democrats, Labour Party, etc. And here you go MeramJert!  1 Hour after the Candle light vigil ended, a small group of people wanted to march to the Liason Office of the Central People's Government of Hong Kong (中聯辦). However, police denied them a permit and are trying to get them out of the road. I can't upload video for now but police easily outnumber the protesters. There was an altercation and some of the press brought small step ladders to snap more action footage and video.  The banners are mostly university student associations - Like every post secondary institution in the city.Some of the more extreme Pan Democrats like the League of Social Democrats (Long Hair's group), and People Power also wanted to march from Victoria Park to Liason Office. The whole trip is around 6km  Police officers did not want the protesters to hog a single lane of traffic and forced them to march along the sidewalk. Every intersection or street corner you can see Police Tactical Unit (PTU) forming human walls and diverting foot traffic. And within each group of PTU there are a few traffic cops on motorcycles, directing vehicle traffic and forming order.  It's quite a show of force and I'm surprised that they are all armed with revolvers and I see a secondary canister in their belts (doesn't look like water bottle). I suspect it's pepper spray, cops are starting to militarize and use stronger force as a counter force to the more radical protesters.  Cops are pretty organized, they coordinate between different police groups like traffic, riot & heavy duty cops. Plain Clothes also linger around the back of the crowd.  Traffic is actually quite a bit of standstill and a buffer zone is being set up. Protesters are actually being boxed in and not allowed to march any more  However, there are still non protesters trying to go through the protesters and are being blocked. Some tourists and onlookers are trying to close in and see more of the situation. This whole segment of the road is blocked and bystanders must detour behind the building. These guys all have a face of "God loving dammit". They all got hands on the railing to prevent anyone jumping out of the railing and running towards the road.  Around the other side of the building and blocked zone, is just your shopping district as usual. Some mainland tourists crowd give no fucks about what is going and just want to have a shopping holiday (that's what all the suit cases are for, to load up on goods). Other tourists participated in the candle light vigil.  Another entrance to the protesters being blocked. Cops are boxing the protesters in. However, after about 10 minutes and more in your face yelling and threats of arrests etc, the police opened up a path for the protesters to continue. Why was the crowd initially stopped?   It's probably setting up further road blocks and choke points along the path. You can see the sidewalk being fenced up. There's also police using orange tape to cordon the crowd. All in all, it was a tight area and people could easily bump into trash cans and fire hydrants. Personally, I think that being 11:30pm at night, a single lane of traffic should be used instead of walkway. But I'm sure the police have a mentality of "give an inch, they will take a mile".  More walking!  Yeah they have a lot more police officers and can easily number 1:1. I'm sure a few police battalions and the nearby police stations are practically emptied out to be on the street.  Wish I could upload this, ugh youtube takes forever. 2 police vans are always on standby tailing the marchers. What they do is, load everyone up and leap frog to set up extra crowd control zones. Seeing them mobilize in a very professional way. In 40 seconds they could load 17 guys up (Yes I timed them).  Protesters shouting slogans along the way.  I like this photo.  Police were constantly filming the marchers. They use mostly sony view cams and angled monopods. If you get close to them you can hear radio chatter directing them where to film.  Some of the younger students undeterred yet tired. Think these guys are scholarism - a non political affiliated group of mostly under 17 students against propaganda national education in HK. Lots of different old hand political groups are courting them.
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Jun 5, 2014 10:33
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