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Another Person posted:Quick question - what other times can it be argued that Don Draper is having hallucinations? I know this latest episode, and the one where he ends up in the swimming pool (I justify this as him being high as balls) but I cannot remember the specifics of other occasions. I want to go back and watch them, to pay attention to if there are any significant differences in camerawork and production in them. Ken's dance number.
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May 30, 2014 15:07
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Ken's dance was absolute reality and I would never like to think otherwise.
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May 30, 2014 15:12
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Another Person posted:Quick question - what other times can it be argued that Don Draper is having hallucinations? I know this latest episode, and the one where he ends up in the swimming pool (I justify this as him being high as balls) but I cannot remember the specifics of other occasions. I want to go back and watch them, to pay attention to if there are any significant differences in camerawork and production in them. Off the top of my head, there's the Season 3 opener when he watches his own birth while heating up milk for Gene late at night. He saw Adam while under the influence of anesthesia while getting his "hot tooth" removed, and he saw Anna Draper appear in his office on the night that she died in "The Suitcase"
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May 30, 2014 15:13
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Hm. What I am running with in my head is that most of these are not hallucinations. The ones where he is high are, but the other ones are more likely Don's own thoughts, rather than a full on hallucination.
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May 30, 2014 15:16
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Another Person posted:Quick question - what other times can it be argued that Don Draper is having hallucinations? I know this latest episode, and the one where he ends up in the swimming pool (I justify this as him being high as balls) but I cannot remember the specifics of other occasions. I want to go back and watch them, to pay attention to if there are any significant differences in camerawork and production in them. The episode after Lane kills himself. Don starts seeing his brother walking around, and finally shows up to chat whit him while under the influence of laughing gas. Also the time he had a fever and imagined having sex with and then strangling an old fling to death. Also Anna walking into his office in "The Suitcase" But those times he either had a fever or was suffering from a painful abscess, or was recovering from being INCREDIBLY drunk. Betty also saw her father a whole lot before she gave birth the Gene. It's a common enough thing in this show that it's not totally out of place. It was just the most in-your-face example. Another Person posted:Hm. What I am running with in my head is that most of these are not hallucinations. The ones where he is high are, but the other ones are more likely Don's own thoughts, rather than a full on hallucination. That's my own feeling. They're usually just manifestations of what's on the character's minds.
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May 30, 2014 15:18
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Another Person posted:Quick question - what other times can it be argued that Don Draper is having hallucinations? I know this latest episode, and the one where he ends up in the swimming pool (I justify this as him being high as balls) but I cannot remember the specifics of other occasions. I want to go back and watch them, to pay attention to if there are any significant differences in camerawork and production in them. There was when he saw his brother at the end of Season 5 (although he was under anesthetic for the one so it wasn't just him). Anna's ghost, but he had just woken up after a night of drinking to avoid that so maybe he was still dreaming. There was the whole strangling the woman fever dream thing, but yeah, fever dream. There were a bunch of flashbacks in earlier seasons, but personally I think how they're cut might make them seem like hallucinations at first. I don't think there were that many besides Bert's dance number where there wasn't some other factor in play, so they wouldn't really be examples of him losing it.
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May 30, 2014 15:19
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Honestly, with Matt's previous experience working on The Sopranos, I'm not surprised to see a liberal use of dead folks coming back for little cameos.
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May 30, 2014 15:22
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On the other hand, you've got: 1) Personality changes 2) Hallucinations Goons, there a non-zero chance we've got a brain tumor.
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May 30, 2014 15:42
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Accretionist posted:On the other hand, you've got: Yes, this is totally reasonable and not at all a weird thing to assume when, in a show where characters see dead people important to them alive again for narrative person, they see a person who just died that was incredibly important to them as people gather to pay their respects.
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May 30, 2014 16:13
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Accretionist posted:On the other hand, you've got: I don't mind the speculation, but I don't think we're going to find definitive evidence one way or another, it isn't that kind of show. As for the personality change, while we haven't seen Don in an AA meeting or give up drinking entirely, he is in recovery, and his attitude change is consistent with that.
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May 30, 2014 16:24
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Another Person posted:Quick question - what other times can it be argued that Don Draper is having hallucinations? As early as Season One Episode Five Don hallucinates seeing the birth of his brother. Adult Don falls backwards down the stairs and flashes back to meeting Adam for the first time; it's presented not as a memory, but as an hallucination, with adult Don looking on in bewilderment.
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May 30, 2014 16:25
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PriorMarcus posted:As early as Season One Episode Five Don hallucinates seeing the birth of his brother. Adult Don falls backwards down the stairs and flashes back to meeting Adam for the first time; it's presented not as a memory, but as an hallucination, with adult Don looking on in bewilderment. Many memories have been presented that way, I think it's just a way to keep the flashbacks engaging by having the main character watch the scene with the audience.
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May 30, 2014 16:26
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Obviously Don is schizophrenic and will slice off his nipple any day now.
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May 30, 2014 16:44
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JayMax posted:Obviously Don is schizophrenic and will slice off his nipple any day now. gotta let the pressure out somehow
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May 30, 2014 16:55
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I feel like Don's ghost problems would be more easily explained by the terrible decisions he's made in life rather than him suddenly being revealed to have a brain tumor or mental illness in the last half season.
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May 30, 2014 17:14
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Max posted:Many memories have been presented that way, I think it's just a way to keep the flashbacks engaging by having the main character watch the scene with the audience. While it's obviously a stylistic choice, it also establishes as early as then that Mad Men likes to have it present day characters react to their inner thoughts and memories as if they are an hallucination, taking place in the here and now. Sure, the song and dance number was a step further than Mad Men has gone before, but it was still a step on the same path Mad Men has been walking since Season One Episode Five. Also, do we think that Pete's rifle is on his Californian office with a highly depressed Ted, or?
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May 30, 2014 17:15
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Moltke posted:I feel like Don's ghost problems would be more easily explained by the terrible decisions he's made in life rather than him suddenly being revealed to have a brain tumor in the last half season. Gee, it's almost like it's supposed to represent him being haunted by his past or something.
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May 30, 2014 17:15
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Beamed posted:Gee, it's almost like it's supposed to represent him being haunted by his past or something. That sounds absurd!
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May 30, 2014 17:16
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Beamed posted:Gee, it's almost like it's supposed to represent him being haunted by his past or something. He's saying the same thing, your arguing with someone who agrees with you.
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May 30, 2014 17:16
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PriorMarcus posted:He's saying the same thing, your arguing with someone who agrees with you. I'm not arguing with Moltke 
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May 30, 2014 17:26
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All the dead people are going to come back in the finale. Lane, Don's brother, Megan's miscarriage baby, the real Don Draper. Don will walk into a church and..
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May 30, 2014 18:34
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They all forgive Don for the mistakes he's made, and break out into this musical number in another nod to Robert Morse's career (with the miscarriage baby taking the role of J Pierpont Finch). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_29IeEeZqo
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May 30, 2014 19:28
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Max posted:Honestly, with Matt's previous experience working on The Sopranos, I'm not surprised to see a liberal use of dead folks coming back for little cameos. drat, this is making me wish Mad Men used dreams as often and as great as the Sopranos.
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May 30, 2014 21:02
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:drat, this is making me wish Mad Men used dreams as often and as great as the Sopranos. My favorite use of dead characters was in the season 3 funeral. If you weren't paying attention, you might not even realize that other important, now dead characters were hanging around the mansion. In some ways, Mad Men has been a lot more on the nose about their use of dead people cameos. But they've also been a lot more sparing about it, so it doesn't feel too overdone. God, I just remembered the season 1 dream where Tony sings "What Time Is It?"
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May 30, 2014 21:30
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passionate dongs posted:Pete might be cynical, but Peggy and Don are not. They may believe that for whatever reason they can't have a family but they certainly desire it. Don's thing from the start has been about not cheapening sentiment but aspiring for sincerity: I don't remember the exact pitch, but he was mad at the cheapening of the word love. His whole Hershey's bit was about him cherishing the tiny twisted bit of affection he had in his life. The episode is littered with non-traditional families. Julio and Peggy, Roger with his ex-wife, grandson, and son-in-law, the crew watching in the hotel, and even Cooper with his maid. Yes, the characters strive for families, but that's not what's being called out as bullshit. It's the old view of what the word family means. The characters are coming to terms with the fact that family is really just a bunch of broken people clinging to each other through the storm, and that's beautiful. But for a guy like Lou who spouts off poo poo like dad is the one mom listens to, it would probably sound cynical. Either way, my point is that the Burger Chef ad was very sincere, but brutal in its honesty. I mean, bringing up Vietnam in a pitch for hamburgers is pretty ballsy. It would be boring to see the grand finale be some hokey yet effective ad like the Coke ad. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 22:13 on May 30, 2014 |
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May 30, 2014 22:11
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I like to think that in the Mad Men universe ghosts just actually exist.
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May 31, 2014 00:28
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NienNunb posted:I like to think that in the Mad Men universe ghosts just actually exist. "Fear - it's strong, but can hold us back. Teddy told me that in Old Saxon, "fear" literally means "to lie in wait." It's a shiver down your spine more potent than what we percieve alone. Your cusomers won't just be afraid of your ghost; they will be afriad of you. This company isn't just about catching ghost, it's about helping people. You go above, and beyond... You offer your customers a place where they aren't afraid of being disbelieved. Your slogan isn't "Bustin' Makes Me Feel Good", it's "Where Ready To Believe You!". Because Ghostbusters doesn't just catch Ghost, it proves you were right all along - something goes bump in the night, and your advert comes on TV. Who you gonna call?" - Don Draper, Season 07 Episode 14, The Ghost of All Your Times
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May 31, 2014 00:40
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Damiya posted:gotta let the pressure out somehow Don falls out the window fending off Roger's homosexual advances, brought on by the computer.
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May 31, 2014 01:18
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Timeless Appeal posted:Either way, my point is that the Burger Chef ad was very sincere, but brutal in its honesty. I mean, bringing up Vietnam in a pitch for hamburgers is pretty ballsy. It would be boring to see the grand finale be some hokey yet effective ad like the Coke ad. They've set up a whole generation of people who had the same vigor that Don had when he wanted to reinvent the agency. Peggy, Stan, Harry and to some extent Pete and Joan are the only ones left who genuinely care about being adventurous in some way. The rest are okay to live out their lives business as usual under what they all previously thought was the creative death of agencies. I still think about that episode ending in Burger Chef with Don, Peggy and Pete -- that very well could've been the finale for me.
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May 31, 2014 02:13
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Timeless Appeal posted:A Great Post Complete agreement, Peggy's pitch was next-level.
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May 31, 2014 03:00
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I do agree that this would have made a perfect finale. The finale episodes could suffer from what BSG did. The episode where they found Earth 1 would have been bleak and a perfect ending. I loved what came after and there was a lot of cool stuff in there, but those last episodes had a bit of a long epilogue feel to them. For you anime nerds, you'll appreciate when I say it could also be like Legend of the Galactic Heroes after THAT episode. It seemed like the main story had ended and the last 20 odd episodes were extra stuff. I hope Weiner has something up his sleeve, because this last episode was amazing.
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May 31, 2014 04:02
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I think that a lot of the time Don and Others hallucinations are triggered by them being in situations where they are suppressing strong emotions more than just them being high/drunk. Although it's easy to see how that could make them more vulnerable. I think in the case of the Bert Cooper hallucination, he was neither high nor drunk at the time (that we know of anyway) I think that part of what it is, while everyone was there to mourn the loss of Bert Cooper, everyone's headed upstairs, while Don has gotten what he wants, he's convinced Ted, had a moment with Peggy, and is headed down, to isolate himself from feeling the loss of one of the people who have him his first chances. But he's also running away from the "triumph" of getting what he wants. I think that on some level he's really not happy about working with Mcann, and that he on some level might even feel some of what Ted feels. He's always made the decision that will choose work and money over family and any type of lasting happiness. With all of his seeming growth in other parts of his life, maybe the hallucination is a reflection of those feelings bubbling to the surface. Just a theory. Prosopagnosiac fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 06:21
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Is Bert Cooper's lack of testes ever alluded to after the episode where Don listens to Sterling's autobio tape?
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Jun 5, 2014 08:27
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WEREWAIF posted:Is Bert Cooper's lack of testes ever alluded to after the episode where Don listens to Sterling's autobio tape? No, the only other allusion was Roger's "Let's ask Dr. Lyle Evans" snipe an episode or two prior. Just the setup for the punchline.
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Jun 5, 2014 13:33
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Check out these FYC ads the show is doing for the Emmys. Fantastic looking, clever, and wonderfully "in character" for the show. http://www.avclub.com/article/mad-men-your-consideration-ads-are-beautifully-app-205426
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Jun 5, 2014 18:05
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ClydeUmney posted:Check out these FYC ads the show is doing for the Emmys. Fantastic looking, clever, and wonderfully "in character" for the show.  The shading on this one makes her legs look hairy as gently caress.
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Jun 5, 2014 18:30
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It's some kind of weird lace stockings that don't work well at all in a picture like that. You'd think someone would have caught that. I thought it was an ad for a lady shaver at first.
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Jun 5, 2014 18:51
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If she doesn't win an Emmy by the end of the series, I don't know why we have Emmys.
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Jun 5, 2014 19:06
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JethroMcB posted:No, the only other allusion was Roger's "Let's ask Dr. Lyle Evans" snipe an episode or two prior. Just the setup for the punchline. It's implied also, in a sense, when he's watching the moon landing with his maid, rather than his wife and children...
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Jun 5, 2014 19:31
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ClydeUmney posted:Check out these FYC ads the show is doing for the Emmys. Fantastic looking, clever, and wonderfully "in character" for the show. All of these ads are perfect
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Jun 5, 2014 22:14
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