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zoux posted:I agree and I would probably do those things if I lived in not the reddest state in the country. Sorry about the doublepost
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Jun 12, 2014 21:17
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Accretionist posted:What we need is a Leftist quiverfull movement. We'd not only be outbreeding those who want to regress to the 19th century, we'd be jacking up our PSRs, too. Legit the quiverfull movement may be the most terrible thing on the planet.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:17
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Anyone able to comment on what the likelihood of a shared security framework (of some sort) being established? edit: To the extent that it's all realpolitik under the hood, it seems like a logical direction from any regime to want to go in. Nations benefit from stability, internal and external. Accretionist fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jun 12, 2014 |
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Jun 12, 2014 21:17
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Family Values posted:So the only time a vote matters is if the candidate you voted for wins by exactly one vote? And by extension, I guess only one vote mattered in that election. This is the dumbest thing. Woah, woah, woah, hold on! In this well researched documentary about the 2004 election...  Accretionist posted:So, what I'm getting from this is you're a monarchist. And you think only the king should be bothered with anything. An old standard of political cartooning, but a good one. 
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Jun 12, 2014 21:20
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Amergin posted:
Anyone who reads this thread regularly can write the GOP talking points no matter what Obama does.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:22
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Amergin posted:I point to low voter turnout as the consequence of a bunch of people having similar notions. Be the change you want to see, zoux. Every time you bitch about the system, you increase the chance of making someone else disaffected. Then that's not just one, that's two votes who aren't participating. And so on and so fourth. Right now, not only are you depriving the democratic process of your vote but you are actively harming it by spreading the idea that voting is pointless to more people. Be passionate, even if your single vote is worthless. Maybe more people will choose to vote who wouldn't have before as a result.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:25
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zoux posted:Is it from me not voting? If it's close the person who you completely disagree with will win instead of the person you almost completely disagree with.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:27
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JT Jag posted:This is kinda what I wanted to say. zoux, your single vote is meaningless. That's all I was saying.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:29
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It's like there's a gauge reflecting the public's influence. The more people vote, the more influence we have. The less people vote, the less influence have. The more we try to extort concessions in exchange for our votes, the more influence we have. The less influenced by propaganda we are, the more influence we have. I could keep going but we're still at the, "Go vote, you idiots," stage of things. Zoux, go vote. Vote third party. Be for anything that fucks up the system if you're that cynical. Help jack up their numbers.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:29
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zoux posted:That's all I was saying.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:30
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JT Jag posted:Did you not read the entire rest of the post where I said "but vote anyway because it's not your single vote at stake when you have an attitude like that" or what No you said not to talk about my opinion because it might make other people not vote. I generally don't because as we've seen here people get real loving mad when you tell them you don't vote.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:32
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Amergin posted:In other news Iraq is sort of having some issues. Again I think foreign policy will be the biggest thing that bites 2016 Dem candidates.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:32
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zoux posted:No you said not to talk about my opinion because it might make other people not vote. I generally don't because as we've seen here people get real loving mad when you tell them you don't vote. It's Democratic Self-Harm.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:33
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zoux posted:I generally don't because as we've seen here people get real loving mad when you tell them you don't vote.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:34
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Babylon Astronaut posted:It is irresponsible by definition. People who are politically active are offended that you take pride in being irresponsible. Casting a vote every 2 years doesn't make one "politically active".
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Jun 12, 2014 21:35
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JT Jag posted:Be the change you want to see, zoux. Every time you bitch about the system, you increase the chance of making someone else disaffected. Then that's not just one, that's two votes who aren't participating. And so on and so fourth. Right now, not only are you depriving the democratic process of your vote but you are actively harming it by spreading the idea that voting is pointless to more people. Be passionate, even if your single vote is worthless. Maybe more people will choose to vote who wouldn't have before as a result. Why would I want to help the democratic process in this country? I'm not an accelerationist by any means but encouraging people to see the system for what it is doesn't strike me as particularly terrible. I agree with zoux. I vote locally now and then since I think ideology is less important than day to day competency in governance at that level but beyond that I usually don't bother. Not only is my individual vote useless but I'm almost never offered the option to vote for anyone who's proposed policies I find agreeable. If I disagree with >50% of a candidates platform I'm not voting for them, end of story. Everyone here just pushes this idea that if my options are a Democrat that I agree with 35% of their platform or a Republican where I agree with 5% of their platform then I have some civic duty to vote for the Democrat even though I fundamentally disagree with the majority of their proposed policies. It would almost be better if there weren't ANY politicians who I would support but instead there are actually a few I'd wholeheartedly support but I've never once been in a position to vote for them. Fingers crossed Warren runs for president.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:37
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zoux posted:Casting a vote every 2 years doesn't make one "politically active". It's basically the least you could do.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:38
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Berke Negri posted:As long as Obama doesnt go back to occupying Iraq I dont think the Middle East melting down on cue during the buildup to 2016 will be harmful to dems. Yeah I mean attacking Obama for Iraq being a shitshow is a non-starter. That's Bush's War and the GOP has to eat it. The GOP base will of course blame Obama but they now blame Obama for Hurricane Katrina so there's no way to change that.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:38
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Oh my god, shut the gently caress up. It's more active in the political process than you.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:38
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zoux posted:Casting a vote every 2 years doesn't make one "politically active". Compared to you, it is. Voting is literally the least you can do. You as in you, specifically. Being a non-GOP non-voter who tells other non-GOP people not to vote is literally something that Republicans love. The Republicans love you. They spend tons of time and money to suppress voter turnout and here you are helping them out for free.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:39
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computer parts posted:Once again people assume the Presidential election is the only one worth voting for. You would think the last few years would have caused people to realize the importance of other elections. Imagine what the last 4 years would have been like if Republicans didn't control the house. Sigh.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:40
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Accretionist posted:Compared to you, it is. Voting is literally the least you can do. You as in you, specifically. So I should vote out of spite? The system has enough spite driving it without my meager contributions.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:42
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Why would I want to help the democratic process in this country? I'm not an accelerationist by any means but encouraging people to see the system for what it is doesn't strike me as particularly terrible.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:42
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theblackw0lf posted:You would think the last few years would have caused people to realize the importance of other elections. The thing is, framing this as a voter apathy issue is inaccurate...the apathy is a symptom not the cause. The House remains GOP controlled because of gerrymandering. I vote in every election, including local and primaries. I also am extremely cynical about voting. Having said that, no matter what my district will be going to a Democrat, because the state is really gerrymandered, as are most.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:42
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Why would I want to help the democratic process in this country? I'm not an accelerationist by any means but encouraging people to see the system for what it is doesn't strike me as particularly terrible. Bad news nutsack, the core of the right wing voter base is old people with literally nothing to do but vote on election day. Showing 'the system as it is' is basically handing the system over to the dudes who can best manipulate stupid old people and that's pretty always been the right wing since most of their platform is "CHANGE IS SCARY AND DID I SEE A NEGRO?!"
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Jun 12, 2014 21:44
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Berke Negri posted:As long as Obama doesnt go back to occupying Iraq I dont think the Middle East melting down on cue during the buildup to 2016 will be harmful to dems. I doubt he'll do that pretty much everyone who wasn't the most far right of Republicans wanted out. If the ME melts down people won't care unless someone from the US or it allies gets hurt by the region being destabilized. Americans seems to be moving towards a more isolationist stance outside of Dems who thinks America needs to project force in the world, Right-wing jingoists,and neo-liberals on both sides who think freedom means America's particular brand of free market.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:45
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Relentlessboredomm posted:So I should vote out of spite? The system has enough spite driving it without my meager contributions. Spite's gay. He should vote because it's the right thing to do. He should stop doing what he's doing now, in particular, because he's literally helping the Republican party.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:46
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JT Jag posted:Just think about it for a second. The system is already hosed up, and the fewer people that vote, the more hosed up it gets. It's a lot easier to buy an election with low turnout, so you're only helping the rich fucks by not voting. If fewer people are voting because they recognize how broken the system is then it getting more hosed up would hopefully encourage some sort of national discussion about fixing the loving problems.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:46
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Accretionist posted:Compared to you, it is. Voting is literally the least you can do. You as in you, specifically. You don't know how politically active I am. All you know is that I don't do what we've all agreed is literally the least important thing one can do as part of the political process.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:47
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SirKibbles posted:So the guy who is going to replace Eric Cantor as the Republican candidate is batshit from what I hear? That depends. Do you consider believing that the correct way to practice Christianity is through Randian Objectivism and that we need to read more Nietzsche to prevent the next Hitler to be "batshit"?
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Jun 12, 2014 21:47
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Relentlessboredomm posted:So I should vote out of spite? The system has enough spite driving it without my meager contributions. It's not spite, it's just common sense. You might only support 50% of what a Democrat stands for, but if the Republican is a horrible poo poo, you're giving one more horrible fucker power with their vote by not voting. Personally, I don't give a poo poo whether or not anyone votes, but your logic on the matter isn't.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:47
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Relentlessboredomm posted:If fewer people are voting because they recognize how broken the system is then it getting more hosed up would hopefully encourage some sort of national discussion about fixing the loving problems. And in that time the right, who have shown to have higher activity rates of their voters, gets to win and oh gee whiz what the gently caress happened guys we were discussing things and then when it came time for the lawmakers to act nothing happened??? It's crazy but you can talk about systematic problems and participate in the basic level of democracy too.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:48
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Relentlessboredomm posted:If fewer people are voting because they recognize how broken the system is then it getting more hosed up would hopefully encourage some sort of national discussion about fixing the loving problems. That's only if things getting worse makes people better.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:48
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Joementum posted:That depends. Do you consider believing that the correct way to practice Christianity is through Randian Objectivism and that we need to read more Nietzsche to prevent the next Hitler to be "batshit"? Honestly I saw that quote but I thought it was a joke.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:48
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Berke Negri posted:As long as Obama doesnt go back to occupying Iraq I dont think the Middle East melting down on cue during the buildup to 2016 will be harmful to dems. Hahahaha, what? All you are going to see is Republicans on every media outlet saying 'Remember that Islamic caliphate that extremists wanted to establish, the one we warned you guys about? Well, say hello to ISIS!"
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Jun 12, 2014 21:49
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Accretionist posted:Spite's gay. He should vote because it's the right thing to do. He should stop doing what he's doing now, in particular, because he's literally helping the Republican party. Tatum Girlparts posted:Bad news nutsack, the core of the right wing voter base is old people with literally nothing to do but vote on election day. Showing 'the system as it is' is basically handing the system over to the dudes who can best manipulate stupid old people and that's pretty always been the right wing since most of their platform is "CHANGE IS SCARY AND DID I SEE A NEGRO?!" Hahah, I should vote because otherwise the other team wins. Listen to yourselves for a minute. THIS IS MY EXACT loving PROBLEM. I'm not voting in order to screw over some other group, whether or not I find their beliefs abhorrent. I'm either voting FOR someone or not at all.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:49
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zoux posted:You don't know how politically active I am. All you know is that I don't do what we've all agreed is literally the least important thing one can do as part of the political process. "Let me tell you all the good things my drum circle accomplishes with our communal
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Jun 12, 2014 21:50
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^^^^^Hahah, because voting and drum circles are IT. There is no other way to be politically active. Accretionist posted:That's only if things getting worse makes people better. I know. I wish I knew what made people better.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:52
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Hahah, I should vote because otherwise the other team wins. Listen to yourselves for a minute. THIS IS MY EXACT loving PROBLEM. I'm not voting in order to screw over some other group, whether or not I find their beliefs abhorrent. I'm either voting FOR someone or not at all. No your exact problem is you don't 100% agree with democrats and are too much of a bitch to vote third party because despite your bluster you want to feel like your vote was more 'important' than that, so you say gently caress it like a big baby and take your ball and go home while hiding behind some bullshit 'yea man I'm really opening people's eyes by being a lazy piece of poo poo'.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:53
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Relentlessboredomm posted:If fewer people are voting because they recognize how broken the system is then it getting more hosed up would hopefully encourage some sort of national discussion about fixing the loving problems. That's the key point though; if it was solely due to awareness you wouldn't have Voter ID laws.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:54
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