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Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
As responses to a pirate ship full of ninjas go, giving out Surf so you can follow them is a pretty good one.

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BlazeEmblem
Jun 8, 2013

Uh oh. Do I use Ariadne thread or Goho-M?

:crossarms: Is that fish using anger impact?

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

BlazeEmblem posted:

:crossarms: Is that fish using anger impact?
Dammit, now I have to go replay a MMBN game.

ArcadePark
Feb 4, 2011

Damn it, It's all your fault!

BlazeEmblem posted:

:crossarms: Is that fish using anger impact?

Stand back. He's about to unleash his rage.

Silegna
Aug 20, 2013

Hey, heads up. I'm about to unleash my rage.

ArcadePark posted:

Stand back. He's about to unleash his rage.

Yo. You called? That's my line.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta
Grimey Drawer

beru04 posted:

I remember finding the Castelia Crew, I spent way too long there thinking there was more to it than Blackglasses and a Medal. Maybe I shoulda used Strength on that truck...

I'm honestly shocked that there hasn't been a gag about moving a truck with Strength in the series.

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?

TwoPair posted:

I'm honestly shocked that there hasn't been a gag about moving a truck with Strength in the series.

In FRLG, there's some kinda item - I think a Calcium? - under the Mew Truck.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

DoctorWhat posted:

In FRLG, there's some kinda item - I think a Calcium? - under the Mew Truck.

A Lava Cookie, actually.

Chorocojo
Sep 25, 2005

Legendary Enchantment Creature -- Bird God


#25. Corky


Now that we've gone back through man-made caves, let's check out a real one.


Music: Chargestone Cave


Oh. Hey Bianca.



Huh. I wonder why they float.


. . . o-oh.




. . . I didn't think she'd actually know.


Choro Notes: Chargestone Cave is largely unchanged from Black/White. All of the monsters previously found here still live here plus only one more:


Choro Notes: It's Nosepass. Nosepass lives here (and will evolve into Probopass if leveled up here)


Choro Notes: Aaaand gems still appear in the dust clouds here. If a monster holding a gem uses a move that matches the gem's type, the move's power is boosted by 50%, consuming the gem.

member of my band!"
Is it you?

I- I mean, I wasn't. That came off really real—


Welp. Gonna just hurl myself into one of these electrified chasms.

- - -


Choro Notes: More of N's Pokémon appear here, specifically The ones he used to battle Haley here in Chargestone Cave: Boldore, Joltik, Ferroseed and Klink.


Choro Notes: The game is also very good about just giving you Max Repels early on in caves. Such a kind thought.


I feel like this is gonna make my hair frizz ou— oh.


Choro Notes: If you haven't cleared the PWT, this bridge is being repaired and Bianca is waiting to pass.


. . . ?



friend that I have to stop!"


. . . There's nobody here. Huh.

- - -


Yeah let's see what you got Corky!


Oh my god, your name is really Corky. I'm sorry, guy. poo poo.


Choro Notes: This is a Triple Battle, there's also an Ace Trainer who will engage in a Rotation Battle lower in the cavern's levels.



Choro Notes: I get to show off Flame Burst's additional effect finally! When Flame Burst hits a target in multiple battles . . .


Choro Notes: . . . the flame splatters over and hits monsters surrounding the target. It's just a little bonus.




drat right!


Man I'm glad I'm not named Corky.

- - -


Hm?


. . .


Is this a trick?


Is THIS a trick?!


Yeah, no poo poo.


D-did you make this?!


ARE YOU MAKING FUN OF MY ACCENT? YOU'RE DEAD.

- - -


Choro Notes: Aqua Tail is just a strong physical Water-type move which is perfect for Basculin.


That . . . seem's really messed up, doc.



FIX MY DUDES.


Choro Notes: This doctor's placement is odd. He's mostly just here because there was one here in Black/White and because after this point there were a bunch of Team Plasma encounters. Spoilers: There aren't any of those ahead.


Hey I wonder if you're angry enough to beat that electric zebra.


No, but so close. An Aqua Jet will finish it though.



Choro Notes: This move is essentially useless on Basculin outside of multi battles. It makes the target a water-type. i.e. Resistant to Basculin's own-attacks.


Choro Notes: Speaking of useless moves! Remember Defog and how it was an HM in Gen4? Yeah now some random birds learn it. It's just as near useless. In FACT, It's even worse because now it can't hit monsters hiding behind substitutes and can be reflected if your opponent uses Magic Coat. This is a move that lowers your target's evasion and also removes entry hazards from the opponent's side of the field and they made it worse.


Oh. Tynamo? Yeah I saw some down below.

. . .

. . . well bye!




Can't help but feel like something should have happened today.


But it didn't!

Chorocojo fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Jun 23, 2014

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?
Chargestone Cave is kind of completely filler in B2W2. I mean, I was using a Magneton for my runthrough, so I was glad to get the chance to use :black101: Magnezone :black101:, but other than that? :shrug: You get the nuggets and a chance to catch some cool Electric dudes, I guess?

Defog's actually great in Gen 6, because they finally changed it to remove hazards from the entire field. It may not have ended the reign of Stealth Rock, but it finally did put a dent in the eternal trifecta of Hazard Layer > Rapidspinner > Spinblocker.

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST
I got a Tynamo here so I'm not complaining that it exists.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
That is a nicely atmospheric cave, I suppose, even if nothing happens there... but some dude yelling on the far side of a bridge.

Silegna
Aug 20, 2013

Hey, heads up. I'm about to unleash my rage.

Defog also removes hazards on your side of the field as well. Just seems like a dumb change to me.

Mazerunner
Apr 22, 2010

Good Hunter, what... what is this post?

Silegna posted:

Defog also removes hazards on your side of the field as well. Just seems like a dumb change to me.

It does that as of gen 6. Before then it only got rid of the ones you put down that hurt your opponent while leaving the ones that hurt you alone so its ACTIVELY HARMFUL.

StrifeHira
Nov 7, 2012

I'll remind you that I have a very large stick.

Chorocojo posted:


But it didn't!

Soon...

The one thing I'm reminded in how disappointed I am about N's Pokemon is that they all have a set ability and nature. I mean sure it's fine for some 'Mons but others like his Joltik are stuck with the lesser of the two. Oh well, guess it keeps continuity.

dungeon cousin
Nov 26, 2012

woop woop
loop loop

StrifeHira posted:

The one thing I'm reminded in how disappointed I am about N's Pokemon is that they all have a set ability and nature. I mean sure it's fine for some 'Mons but others like his Joltik are stuck with the lesser of the two. Oh well, guess it keeps continuity.

At least they have IVs of 30 across the board which can be useful for breeding later on.

Chorocojo
Sep 25, 2005

Legendary Enchantment Creature -- Bird God

Silegna posted:

Defog also removes hazards on your side of the field as well. Just seems like a dumb change to me.

This was a change in Gen6, yeah. Unless otherwise noted, my comments refer to this game/gen.

Silegna
Aug 20, 2013

Hey, heads up. I'm about to unleash my rage.

Chorocojo posted:

This was a change in Gen6, yeah. Unless otherwise noted, my comments refer to this game/gen.

Ah, alright. So defig was completely useless in Gen 5 then.

Skyridge
Jan 1, 2011

Silegna posted:

Ah, alright. So defig was completely useless in Gen 5 then.

Of course it wasn't. Figgy berries were surprisingly popular hold items.

SirPhoebos
Dec 10, 2007

WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

Cerony posted:

At least they have IVs of 30 across the board which can be useful for breeding later on.

Or it would be had not changes made in gen VI made getting a pokemon with at least 5 perfect IVs incredibly simple.

Silegna
Aug 20, 2013

Hey, heads up. I'm about to unleash my rage.

Frocobo posted:

Of course it wasn't. Figgy berries were surprisingly popular hold items.

Oh. I didn't even realize that typo.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

SirPhoebos posted:

Or it would be had not changes made in gen VI made getting a pokemon with at least 5 perfect IVs incredibly simple.

30s, as opposed to 31s, are pretty useful for Hidden Power.

SirPhoebos
Dec 10, 2007

WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

Dabir posted:

30s, as opposed to 31s, are pretty useful for Hidden Power.

Can you elaborate why?

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

SirPhoebos posted:

Can you elaborate why?
The element and (until Gen 6) Base Power of your Hidden Power is dictated by your Pokemon's IVs, based on which are odd and which are even. For example, a Pokemon with all perfect IVs (31-31-31-31-31-31) will have a Hidden Power of Dark, while a Pokemon with ones that are all 0 or all 30 will have a Hidden Power that's Fighting-type.

If you want a Hidden Power that's a specific type (usually as a coverage move, or to hit a certain specific threat for 4x damage), you need to control which IVs are odd, and which are even. And as you might expect, the best spread for that is 30s and 31s.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

Poison Mushroom posted:

The element and (until Gen 6) Base Power of your Hidden Power is dictated by your Pokemon's IVs, based on which are odd and which are even. For example, a Pokemon with all perfect IVs (31-31-31-31-31-31) will have a Hidden Power of Dark, while a Pokemon with ones that are all 0 or all 30 will have a Hidden Power that's Fighting-type.

If you want a Hidden Power that's a specific type (usually as a coverage move, or to hit a certain specific threat for 4x damage), you need to control which IVs are odd, and which are even. And as you might expect, the best spread for that is 30s and 31s.

:psyduck:

I get that this is all stuff people do, but it seems like overkill for a kid's cockfighting game.

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008

The secret to the series' wide and continuing appeal is that it can accommodate multiple play styles without changing the core gameplay. You get out of it what you put into it. Maybe that is a charming, colorful journey with cute monsters and lessons about friendship. Or maybe it is a cross between a eugenics program and Excel spreadsheets. You're the one who gets to choose!

Chorocojo
Sep 25, 2005

Legendary Enchantment Creature -- Bird God

Dareon posted:

:psyduck:

I get that this is all stuff people do, but it seems like overkill for a kid's cockfighting game.

Invest the effort you want to in the game.

Pokémon is a great example of lenticular designm where the deeper depths of the game are invisible to those that are either new or don't care. Just make a team of punch dudes, it's great. Or you can breed up a team of specialized punchers. Either way.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008

Chorocojo posted:

Invest the effort you want to in the game.

Pokémon is a great example of lenticular designm where the deeper depths of the game are invisible to those that are either new or don't care. Just make a team of punch dudes, it's great. Or you can breed up a team of specialized punchers. Either way.

It's interesting to think about, because there's obvious merit to just making all these hidden values and modifiers completely transparent in-game to all players. Yet there's something to be said for just keeping all the immediate available information as simple as possible and not making things any more difficult for your 10-year old audience than it needs to be.

Thinking about it now though I'm surprised the type chart doesn't cause more problems for casual players. Heck I forget certain matchups still and I've been playing this game for almost two decades.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



The game just doesn't reward your effort at all if you decide to do that stuff. It's all there if you wanna go online or really like the idea of breeding your digital murder pets. It's not something the game requires or expects out of you, however.

Manatee Cannon fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Jun 28, 2014

Sakuramei
Apr 6, 2010

Dreaming away...

Super Jay Mann posted:

It's interesting to think about, because there's obvious merit to just making all these hidden values and modifiers completely transparent in-game to all players. Yet there's something to be said for just keeping all the immediate available information as simple as possible and not making things any more difficult for your 10-year old audience than it needs to be.

Thinking about it now though I'm surprised the type chart doesn't cause more problems for casual players. Heck I forget certain matchups still and I've been playing this game for almost two decades.

It's probably because even with all the different types, it's not always a straight 2x/4x thing--many are just 1x to eachother. Not to mention some of the more obvious ones (Water would be better against fire, fire would be better against grass) as well.

But yeah, I still like just picking my favorite Pokemon of the region and having a team I love even if their stats stink. I just wish I could still "complete" the game in a sense, but I do not have the luck for the Battle Frontier things in each region.

Manatee Cannon - I always felt that was part of the endgame stuff. Though, most people I know who do the competitive stuff do just do it for online play.

Sakuramei fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Jun 28, 2014

Silegna
Aug 20, 2013

Hey, heads up. I'm about to unleash my rage.

Sakuramei posted:

But yeah, I still like just picking my favorite Pokemon of the region and having a team I love even if their stats stink.

I beat X with Delphox, Delcatty, Simisage, Shiny Charizard, Talonflame, and Swanna.
Half of those, are horrid statwise. I love them.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Let's be honest, none of us cared that Farfetch'd was terrible back when Red/Blue came out. We used Dux because oh man he uses a leek like a sword and he gets twice as much experience. :swoon:

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Manatee Cannon posted:

The game just doesn't reward your effort at all if you decide to do that stuff. It's all there if you wanna go online or really like the idea of breeding your digital murder pets. It's not something the game requires or expects out of you, however.
One could argue that some degree of that is necessary for the various Battle Towers/Subways/Frontiers, since those have you fighting against strong AI with competent movesets & items. But the areas in question are 100% optional postgame crap, sooooo...:v:

But yeah. Do whatever you want to in-game, you don't have to care about EVs/IVs/natures unless that brand of spergery appeals to you.

Super Jay Mann posted:

Thinking about it now though I'm surprised the type chart doesn't cause more problems for casual players. Heck I forget certain matchups still and I've been playing this game for almost two decades.
I always found it kind of weird that the type chart has only been an in-game thing once, as far as I remember. (DPt had a type checker as one of the Poketch apps) It's such a fundamental part of battling that it seems really weird that it's never brought up, outside of the Gym Guy telling you basic matchups for each gym type.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
Cheren does serve as about half the type chart in this one, but it was nice to have it as something I could easily refer to in-game. Mostly I just memorize certain combos or thematic triangles (Grass/Fire/Water, Earth/Water/Electric, Psychic/Fighting/Dark), which means I wind up getting blindsided by a bunch of things. Like I'll remember Fighting beats Ice, then pull Lucario out versus a Mamoswine, which proceeds to do my head in with a Ground-type attack.

e: Or try and use Luxio against a Quagsire.

Dareon fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Jun 29, 2014

Arcade Rabbit
Nov 11, 2013

The type complaints have never made sense to me, in all honesty. Maybe I was a little obsessive as a kid, but remembering what affects what didn't take very long at all. It was mostly guessing which pokemon was which element, since I mostly played the game blind.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Haifisch posted:

One could argue that some degree of that is necessary for the various Battle Towers/Subways/Frontiers, since those have you fighting against strong AI with competent movesets & items. But the areas in question are 100% optional postgame crap, sooooo...:v:

But yeah. Do whatever you want to in-game, you don't have to care about EVs/IVs/natures unless that brand of spergery appeals to you.

I always found it kind of weird that the type chart has only been an in-game thing once, as far as I remember. (DPt had a type checker as one of the Poketch apps) It's such a fundamental part of battling that it seems really weird that it's never brought up, outside of the Gym Guy telling you basic matchups for each gym type.

I think FireRed/LeafGreen had type matchups in that help system that nobody ever used except by accident.

Jolyne Cujoh
Dec 7, 2012

It's not like I've got no worries...
But I'll be fine.
And Diamond/Pearl/Plat had a matchup checker on the Poketch. It's how I found out about Dark/Ghost not having any weaknesses as a kid!

Blaziken386
Jun 27, 2013

I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

Raenir K. Artemi posted:

And Diamond/Pearl/Plat had a matchup checker on the Poketch. It's how I found out about Dark/Ghost not having any weaknesses as a kid!

That type checker was one of the best mechanics of D/P/Pt. I know all of the weaknesses for the types by heart, but I have trouble remembering the less obvious resistances, or whether or not something actually resists something else. It made trying to figure out what some of the dual type pokemon were actually weak to, when one of the 2 types counteracts the weakness of the first.

beru04
May 4, 2013

Stop making me realise things.

Dabir posted:

I think FireRed/LeafGreen had type matchups in that help system that nobody ever used except by accident.

I actually did use the help system chart from time to time, but only to remember what Bug types were good agai- wait they were strong against dark?

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Green Intern
Dec 29, 2008

Loon, Crazy and Laughable

Geemer posted:

Mandatory Pokemon Green spritesheet:



I see that they wised up and changed Cloyster's orientation.

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