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2house2fly posted:Yeah but, so? Legit good point. It still feels crass to me though, and it's a textbook example of shutting out intersectionality.
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Jul 5, 2014 03:09
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I think they're being pretty inclusive, for all the poo poo I give them, with regards to suxuality. Whether they're doing a service in terms of characterization is up for (I think them handling the 'gay thing' is about as well done as Witcher handled sexual encounters), but they're checkmarking off more checkmarks in that stuff than most other games. Crappy Jack posted:And like Gaider even said, the rest of the industry is pretty blatantly using Straight White Guy as a branding device for everything, so....yeah. So are they. Drifter fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Jul 5, 2014 |
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Jul 5, 2014 03:10
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Vitamin P posted:Legit good point. Shutting out intersectionality is not the same as not including the option in a fictional medieval fantasy world. Take it to tumblr if you want, but complaining that a video game doesn't wholeheartedly include trans persons is not productive in the slightest.
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Jul 5, 2014 03:20
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I can't imagine how they could include a trans person without it feeling incredibly forced. That would take a degree of nuance that I don't think any video game developer is capable of.
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Jul 5, 2014 03:22
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We don't need footage of hit game, Dragon Age 3. Just imagine an amalgam of all your favorite games and it will be like that. Take their word for it, preorder now.
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Jul 5, 2014 03:28
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I'm pretty sure they introduced a trans-elf in MotA and they handled things with all the subtlety of a hand grenade.
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Jul 5, 2014 03:40
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ElrondHubbard posted:I'm pretty sure they introduced a trans-elf in MotA and they handled things with all the subtlety of a hand grenade. She's from the brothel as well in the regular game. They hosed up on that one.
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Jul 5, 2014 03:41
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ElrondHubbard posted:I'm pretty sure they introduced a trans-elf in MotA and they handled things with all the subtlety of a hand grenade. Yeah that's Serendipity, who has the female elf model with a male voice actor. Apparently if you buy lots of other whores at the brothel that's your reward. I should note that at least in MotA Tallis and Hawke recoil in horror. I dunno about the brothel appearances, I know they exist but I've never actually done that because good lord I don't need more awkward sex cutscenes in this game.
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Jul 5, 2014 03:46
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Shugojin posted:Yeah that's Serendipity, who has the female elf model with a male voice actor. Apparently if you buy lots of other whores at the brothel that's your reward. No, you just get Serendipity if you pay top dollar. You get other stupid stuff as a "reward" if you go there enough. I've...played this game too much, okay?
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Jul 5, 2014 03:49
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ElrondHubbard posted:I'm pretty sure they introduced a trans-elf in MotA and they handled things with all the subtlety of a hand grenade. Drag queen apparently. Edit: There is also this person from the comics. etjester fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Jul 5, 2014 |
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Jul 5, 2014 03:50
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Fojar38 posted:I can't imagine how they could include a trans person without it feeling incredibly forced. That would take a degree of nuance that I don't think any video game developer is capable of. I'd rather have ANY remotely decent, if boring, kind of representation in a game than yet another trans prostitute (invariably, jokes or murder victims). And who the gently caress cares if Bioware uses their inclusion of LGB characters as a branding device? As long as those characters are well-done in terms of their sexuality (which Bioware is actually pretty drat good about), that's absolutely fine. I'm happy there's a game company that markets their poo poo to me.
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Jul 5, 2014 03:54
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David Gaider wrote at length on including transgender characters: http://dgaider.tumblr.com/post/52763739911/on-transgender-characters
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Jul 5, 2014 03:59
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Does Shale count? Smashey Golem was once a Woman, after all.
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Jul 5, 2014 05:26
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Section Z posted:Does Shale count? Smashey Golem was once a Woman, after all. shale went from being a woman to having her soul transferred into a sexless, genderless statue. not quite the same
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Jul 5, 2014 05:54
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I think good gameplay footage or a playable demo are things that just aren't part of our time anymore. I think there was an article which showed that developers actually gain nothing by having a playable demo, instead it's very costly and has a bigger probability to actually decrease sales. And I never would have thought that Rome 2 would be such a disaster from all the things Creative Assembly showed us beforehand, so the real lesson is not to pre-order unless you are really sure that you will buy the game, regardless of it's flaws (like I do with CK2 DLCs for example).
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Jul 5, 2014 07:11
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Creative Assembly was only the second time I preordered anything because I thought that it'd be great no matter what because it is A total war game and, with the embarrassing misstep of empire not withstanding I felt sure it'd be a good game. Turns out, not so much (have they fixed the political system and agents yet? Because all I wanted was Shogun 2 with better agents and more politics, instead I go nothing) The only other thing I ever preordered was Dragon Age 2. I think it's a curse.
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Jul 5, 2014 07:22
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Torrannor posted:I think good gameplay footage or a playable demo are things that just aren't part of our time anymore. I think there was an article which showed that developers actually gain nothing by having a playable demo, instead it's very costly and has a bigger probability to actually decrease sales. And I never would have thought that Rome 2 would be such a disaster from all the things Creative Assembly showed us beforehand, so the real lesson is not to pre-order unless you are really sure that you will buy the game, regardless of it's flaws (like I do with CK2 DLCs for example). Game demos were largely influenced by the lack of quality internet and internet publications. Back in the day all you saw was a photo or two in a magazine and possibly got a CD that actually had demos for you to try out. If you liked them, then you would go out and purchase the game from brick and mortar. These days buyers can just find hundreds of reviews/Lets Play/Info and content online. So the purpose of a demo would be only to allow a player a feel for the controls, which admittedly isn't a big issue these days unless its a niche genre like Dark Souls(That game has poo poo movement mechanics.)
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Jul 5, 2014 07:28
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Antares posted:I hate to be "that guy" but I'm 50+ pages behind on this thread and I don't see any discussion of a gameplay video that isn't handicam footage of a developer playing a scripted demo. Is there still zero genuine gameplay footage of this game which comes out in 3 months? This is the single biggest red flag for the game. At this point, they should be playtesting, fixing bugs, balancing, and showing off a playable demo to the press. Instead they're still releasing concept art, which is below gameplay mockup stills and just above "things the developer said in an interview" in terms of things that rarely represent the finished product. We should be worried that Bioware is being quiet about this. Despite the developers running their mouths on the forums, Dragon Age 2 didn't have a marketing problem. It failed because the game itself was poo poo. If Bioware believed it was making a quality product this time, it would have no problems showing it off to the world. This is damage control.
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Jul 5, 2014 07:30
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Torrannor posted:I think good gameplay footage or a playable demo are things that just aren't part of our time anymore. I think there was an article which showed that developers actually gain nothing by having a playable demo, instead it's very costly and has a bigger probability to actually decrease sales. And I never would have thought that Rome 2 would be such a disaster from all the things Creative Assembly showed us beforehand, so the real lesson is not to pre-order unless you are really sure that you will buy the game, regardless of it's flaws (like I do with CK2 DLCs for example). Edit: Or, of course, the gameplay just plain sucks. 
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Jul 5, 2014 07:35
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Microcline posted:This is the single biggest red flag for the game. At this point, they should be playtesting, fixing bugs, balancing, and showing off a playable demo to the press. Instead they're still releasing concept art, which is below gameplay mockup stills and just above "things the developer said in an interview" in terms of things that rarely represent the finished product. Dragon Age 2 didn't fail, it sold a few million, more then most games that aren't CoD. It is concerning how even at E3 with their big show of having a girl on stage play the cello while it was nothing but panning vista shots and a brief bit of combat against a dragon. Even The Witcher 3 showing had actual roaming gameplay that had Geralt stumble across a random encounter.
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Jul 5, 2014 07:46
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Trapezium Dave posted:I remember reading about the lack of gains for playable demos, but I don't think that applies for gameplay footage which is cheap. The only reasons I can think of off the top of my head for limiting gameplay footage would be if the time is not right for the marketing buzz or (potentially worryingly) the gameplay isn't finalised yet. Even if they only fixed the Wave/spawn/Wave arena combat of DA2, the game will be O.K., combatwise. From the video at e3 it looked like there were some solid controls for the strategy side of combat, but it WAS a super short glance. Still, I'm sure the gameplay will be better than DA2, and looked from that preview to be better than DA:O as well. Encounter design is going to be a huge question here, however.
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Jul 5, 2014 07:46
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Mostly my concern is because I've gone from a Bioware fan who didn't pay attention to the Mass Effect 3 pre-launch buzz because I knew I'd be buying it on release regardless to someone who is super sceptical. I'm still willing to be convinced to buy at or near release but it's going to take some arguing on Bioware's part. The fact they're being tight-lipped this late in development isn't convincing. The question is whether there are a sizeable number of former Bioware fans who think like me or not. My gut feeling is there are quite a few but I could easily be wrong. But if I'm right then it's concerning that Bioware doesn't realise they need to work a fair bit to re-convert us.
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Jul 5, 2014 08:06
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im not going to get it regardless but might rent it if word happens to be good a few months out (this is unlikely)
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Jul 5, 2014 08:14
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pentyne posted:Dragon Age 2 didn't fail, it sold a few million, more then most games that aren't CoD. Why do you think it was "random"? Something being shown at E3 is going to scripted, especially something that isn't shipping until next February.
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Jul 5, 2014 08:18
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Afraid of Audio posted:im not going to get it regardless but might rent it if word happens to be good a few months out (this is unlikely) Your continued participation in the Dragon Age: Inquisition thread has been duly noted, and I hope to hear back about whether or not you've decided to rent the game sometime in the near future.
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Jul 5, 2014 08:23
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DrNutt posted:Your continued participation in the Dragon Age: Inquisition thread has been duly noted, and I hope to hear back about whether or not you've decided to rent the game sometime in the near future. i will be sure to update you on further developments
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Jul 5, 2014 08:25
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Afraid of Audio posted:im not going to get it regardless but might rent it if word happens to be good a few months out (this is unlikely) But I'm willing to get the game earlier and end up giving Bioware three or four times more money if they put in a bit of effort to convince me.
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Jul 5, 2014 08:27
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Shugojin posted:They really need someone from outside their bubble to look at their writing and say "...what the gently caress man" where it's needed. I still suspect that one of the reasons DA2 went so wrong was because Bioware was also busy with the KotOR MMO at the time and they wouldn't have had the time to do proper peer reviews.
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Jul 5, 2014 11:02
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Raygereio posted:Bioware kinda does that. The writing team peer reviews their work. Gaider made a blog post a while back where he was talking about female perspective in game development and he gave an example where during the peer review for something for DA:I one of the women went "You know you've written about rape, right?". A frantic rewrite followed. sounds like some weak rear end hugbox stuff right there man, bioware writers aren't really known for being critical of themselves or others. As Shugo said, they need someone outside the usual writing team to take a look.
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Jul 5, 2014 12:18
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pentyne posted:Dragon Age 2 didn't fail, it sold a few million, more then most games that aren't CoD. First off, no. It didn't. It sold less than two million. Second, success is a relative thing. Would most games be happy to sell nearly two million copies? Holy poo poo yes, they'd be ecstatic. But for a Bioware AAA title? It bombed so hard that they canceled the DLC they had planned and just threw all their resources into Inquisition. Let me reiterate: It sold so badly that Electronic Arts didn't want to make DLC for it. I didn't even know that was possible until then.
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Jul 5, 2014 12:27
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HapiMerchant posted:sounds like some weak rear end hugbox stuff right there man, bioware writers aren't really known for being critical of themselves or others. As Shugo said, they need someone outside the usual writing team to take a look. True. Their writing process could use some major overhaul to make tighter plots, dump bad/cliche ideas, and reign in some writer's vanity projects like Cerberus or Aria. Peer review from external sources and lessened publish pressure would only do some good.
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Jul 5, 2014 12:27
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Stroth posted:First off, no. It didn't. It sold less than two million. Second, success is a relative thing. Would most games be happy to sell nearly two million copies? Holy poo poo yes, they'd be ecstatic. But for a Bioware AAA title? It bombed so hard that they canceled the DLC they had planned and just threw all their resources into Inquisition. They made two  DLCs for the game. They announced they weren't going to make any more DLC in March 2012 -- you know, when everyone was filing FTC complaints and screaming about how they'd never buy a BioWare game again.Not a lot of people clamoring for more Hawke adventures at that point.
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Jul 5, 2014 12:46
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etjester posted:They made two And the ideas for the content of the final piece of cancelled DLC were rolled into Inquisition in some form, so not even all of the development they did on it was lost.
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Jul 5, 2014 12:55
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Microcline posted:This is the single biggest red flag for the game. At this point, they should be playtesting, fixing bugs, balancing, and showing off a playable demo to the press. Instead they're still releasing concept art, which is below gameplay mockup stills and just above "things the developer said in an interview" in terms of things that rarely represent the finished product. Red flag? The marketing for this game has been perfectly normal. They have shown demos to the press, and released gameplay videos. Looking at GTAV for example there was no hint of gameplay footage until we got a few minutes long video of rockstar playing the game two months before release. It is now three months before Dragon Age Inquisition is released and we already have a couple of similar gameplay videos. I can understand being skeptical about this game, but be reasonable.
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Jul 5, 2014 13:36
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Raygereio posted:Bioware kinda does that. The writing team peer reviews their work. Gaider made a blog post a while back where he was talking about female perspective in game development and he gave an example where during the peer review for something for DA:I one of the women went "You know you've written about rape, right?". A frantic rewrite followed. "They need someone outside their circle to look at their work." "nuh uh they look at each others work" ??????
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Jul 5, 2014 14:07
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Literally just a few posts above is David Gaider talking about how he ran elements of the transgender Dark Horse comics character past an outside trans person in order to make sure it wasn't completely out of line. They probably don't do it that much, but it's not like they've never done it.
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Jul 5, 2014 14:48
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SurrealityCheck posted:Literally just a few posts above is David Gaider talking about how he ran elements of the transgender Dark Horse comics character past an outside trans person in order to make sure it wasn't completely out of line. They probably don't do it that much, but it's not like they've never done it. "Is Transing contagious? I want to make an elven vampire hooker, but I don't really want to have other people become trans. I'm good, right?"
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Jul 5, 2014 15:04
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Drifter posted:"Is Transing contagious? I want to make an elven vampire hooker, but I don't really want to have other people become trans. I'm good, right?" Look it's called Transylvania for a reason~
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Jul 5, 2014 15:11
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Stroth posted:First off, no. It didn't. It sold less than two million. Second, success is a relative thing. Would most games be happy to sell nearly two million copies? Holy poo poo yes, they'd be ecstatic. But for a Bioware AAA title? It bombed so hard that they canceled the DLC they had planned and just threw all their resources into Inquisition. http://investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=574530 quote:Crysis® 2, Dragon Age™ 2, and Dead Space™ 2 each sold in more than two million units. The rest of it, I'm guessing you just made up in your head like the "sold less than 2 million" bit, right?
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Jul 5, 2014 17:27
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I remember someone posting a graph of Dragon Age Origins' sales vs DA2's sales- both start similarly strong but there's a much steeper decline after release for DA2. While Origins kept selling reasonable numbers for much longer. So yeah perhaps not a failure but it definitely did not live up to its predecessor, sales wise.
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Jul 5, 2014 17:34
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