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Does the World Cup produce a demand for cam action, or does your site just use soccer as an advertising opportunity? I heard about the World Cup and its associated human trafficking but this is a neat twist. This thread is awesome and you are awesome. Please keep posting.
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Jul 1, 2014 04:58
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I don't really know anything about Webcam shows. What are the biggest/most popular camsites and how are they different from each other?
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Jul 1, 2014 05:25
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MrKatharsis posted:Does the World Cup produce a demand for cam action, or does your site just use soccer as an advertising opportunity? I heard about the World Cup and its associated human trafficking but this is a neat twist. I think that they just use it for advertising. I don't conflate sex trafficking / slavery with sex work. VirtualStranger posted:I don't really know anything about Webcam shows. What are the biggest/most popular camsites and how are they different from each other? OK so I did try to write some breakdowns but I think that what I was writing really sucked because it's pretty much only models' experience and side of things that I am familiar with. I found this website and while some of the reviews are creepy it should still give you an idea of what customers think. luscious fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 05:40
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Has there ever been a show where you've messed up, insofar as that's possible? I'm talking about tripping over things/falling off things and the like. What are the general tolerances for viewers in regards to mistakes? I'd imagine people are fairly good natured about it but are there people out there that would demand a refund if everything wasnt perfect?
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Jul 1, 2014 08:48
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NtotheTC posted:Has there ever been a show where you've messed up, insofar as that's possible? I'm talking about tripping over things/falling off things and the like. What are the general tolerances for viewers in regards to mistakes? I'd imagine people are fairly good natured about it but are there people out there that would demand a refund if everything wasnt perfect? When I was stripping I fell a number of times. On cam sometimes I'll say exactly the wrong thing. Once my dog tipped over a light. Once when I had my bunnies one of them sat on the brightness control button on the keyboard and I had to actually stand up and move him. Generally guys are good natured about it and if they're not then I don't really care. I never gave a refund when I was stripping and payment processing is done through the website on the site I'm on now. I actually don't know of any sex worker who would offer a refund ever after services are rendered. Just don't go back.
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Jul 1, 2014 18:38
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How big a risk is on stage accidents for preformers? I don't think I've ever heard of a stripper breaking something on stage or coming off, but considering how many people die in bathrooms every year, it seems like someone must be occasionally taking a serious fall. Is there insurance they could get, and/or would the club have any responsibility?
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Jul 2, 2014 11:48
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No and no. If you injure yourself you are pretty much SOL. Club will not take any responsibility (and I have never worked at a club where I didn't have to sign some kind of huge contract stating as much) and yah good luck trying to get workers comp.
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Jul 2, 2014 11:54
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How would you handle the downtime if (god forbid) you were to break a leg or arm? This question is relevant to all self employed people I suppose, though im wondering if its different for proffesions where appearances matter. You have the option of tapping into the plaster cast fetishists market at least.
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Jul 2, 2014 12:04
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NtotheTC posted:How would you handle the downtime if (god forbid) you were to break a leg or arm? This question is relevant to all self employed people I suppose, though im wondering if its different for proffesions where appearances matter. You have the option of tapping into the plaster cast fetishists market at least. I hurt my back and wasn't able to work for two months. It sucked. I didn't work and lost money.
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Jul 2, 2014 17:43
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Speaking of injuries I imagine its quite common. What do you or other performers do to get around injuries or to help prevent injuries from happening? Dancing in heels sounds like a knee and back disaster waiting to happen. When not performing do you do rehab during the day or try to build some strength in your legs and back to help strengthen areas prone to injury.
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Jul 2, 2014 20:39
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luscious posted:No and no. If you injure yourself you are pretty much SOL. Club will not take any responsibility (and I have never worked at a club where I didn't have to sign some kind of huge contract stating as much) and yah good luck trying to get workers comp. But would that stand up in court? I've signed some of those myself, for paintball, and remember being told that you can't sign away your right to a safe environment, something I think would be even more true for a work place. My boss could have me sign every waver imaginable but if the terms on them aren't legal they might as well be toilet paper, from what I understand. I guess it would be better to ask in the legal questions thread, but it's an interesting idea. It would be pretty funny if a court ruled strip clubs were unsafe and required every stage to be surrounded by gym mats and every stripper to wear a helmet. E: And every stripper who has change thrown at them should have to wear an old time goalie mask. It would be the most popular fetish in Canada. Aggressive pricing fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 01:48
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Would it be worth it for someone who is trying to not draw any legal attention to themselves to take a club to court unless something RLLY BAD happened? I think in general the law does not favour sex workers in any way.
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Jul 3, 2014 01:57
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luscious posted:Would it be worth it for someone who is trying to not draw any legal attention to themselves to take a club to court unless something RLLY BAD happened? I think in general the law does not favour sex workers in any way. The world is just one injured trust-fund stripper before bringing OSHA to the dance stage.
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Jul 4, 2014 18:31
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Berke Negri posted:The world is just one injured trust-fund stripper before bringing OSHA to the dance stage. Privilege has nothing to do with it. You're dealing with people who, if audited, might end up paying taxes on income that they didn't make. We are universally discredited based on our jobs and no one takes it seriously anyway. "Maybe if you didn't want to get hurt you shouldn't have been wearing those heels and dancing around on a stage" plus peoples' inherent issues / the stigma faced by sex workers. Especially since many aren't "out" and don't care to be out. This industry is hosed and the odds are stacked against sex workers in many ways but things don't change (or do very slowly) because (I think) the compensation generally outweighs whatever bullshit we have to deal with. The general attitude is "if you don't like it, leave" which sucks but helps to keep us divided and working against each other as opposed to working together and actually accomplishing change. I have family (like immediate family) who are worker's rights advocacy lawyers but there is no way that I'm going to ask them to touch this situation. There's also no way that they could get anything done really because this industry really works on a revolving door business model. "You don't want to deal with it? Go elsewhere. We're turning people away who are begging to deal with it." In the US a stripclub chain was forced to consider its dancers employees instead of independent contractors. Now the club can enforce scheduling and gently caress the dancers over in other ways. Hey it's a win, right? Except that many of the dancers who worked at that club/chain now work elsewhere bc they don't like the new poo poo that can go down.
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Jul 4, 2014 19:19
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I just read through this thread, and the thing that stands out to me the most is that the strip clubs really seem to treat the strippers like children. Have any strippers ever gotten together and opened their own business? Same for camming - if the existing sites take 65% of the income, can't a dozen of the models get together, hire a consultant to create a site for them (or do it themselves if they have the skills), and run it on their own?
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Jul 5, 2014 02:59
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Peristalsis posted:I just read through this thread, and the thing that stands out to me the most is that the strip clubs really seem to treat the strippers like children. Have any strippers ever gotten together and opened their own business? Ultimately it takes a lot of work and effort and money upfont to open a club. Most clubs are inherited or owned by ~groups~ or whatever as licensing for opening a new club is a huge pain in the rear end. If you're a stripper and making cash even having to put up with stupid rules, bullshit, and whatever else, you're definitely making more money than you would be by opening a club. And opening a club doesn't even really mean that you will make a huge amount. A lot of clubs in Canada where they don't take a % of what you make (thank god for that) are shitholes bc they don't have money from dancers (or a relatively negligible amount if you include housefees which are normally around 20-50/girl). The strippers that would have the cash to start a club aren't the strippers that want to give up a good thing (even with all the bullshit) to make a small percentage of that by owning and operating a club / babysitting staff, dancers, and customers, as well as dealing with the business, cops, etc. It has been done. I'm pretty certain that there's at least one club in Oregon that's woman / dancer run. Apparently working there is good w/r/t rules but I dunno how the money bc more than an awesome environment is needed for good money. In fact, I think that great work environment can cut money. For camming: there are ways to make more but they require more work than most (including myself) are willing to put in. There's tons of indie sites and sites that take less of a % but the amount of work that you have to put into promotion and advertising in general isn't worth it to me and many others. I maintain that I make more not having to worry about indie bullshit than I would with dealing with it.
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Jul 5, 2014 06:24
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How is taxation handled in your industry? Do you report your earnings or is it all "under-the-table"?
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Jul 5, 2014 08:05
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luscious posted:I'm pretty certain that there's at least one club in Oregon that's woman / dancer run. Apparently working there is good w/r/t rules A Poletariat, if you will
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Jul 5, 2014 08:57
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I'm pretty sure that I talk about that in the thread. Almost every sex worker is an independent contractor. We do taxes according to the laws in our individual countries. As with anyone who deals primarily with cash that isn't recorded, some tax fraud / evasion will be present and unfortunately sometimes taxes really gently caress your poo poo up when everything isn't recorded.
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Jul 5, 2014 09:45
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tgacon posted:A Poletariat, if you will How long have you been waiting in the sidelines with that one? I love that we're 10 pages deep into the sex industry thread and the most fascinating thing to talk about currently is the finances. Have there been any more crazy new stories since the thread downtime OP?
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Jul 5, 2014 15:08
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luscious posted:If you're a stripper and making cash even having to put up with stupid rules, bullshit, and whatever else, you're definitely making more money than you would be by opening a club. And opening a club doesn't even really mean that you will make a huge amount. Right, I'd assume that the owners (i.e. the performers) would probably want to hire a manager to deal with most of the day-to-day bullshit of running a bar (possibly one of the dancers if she has the training and experience, and doesn't want to perform any more), but that manager would work for the performers, rather than vice-versa, and the performers could set the rules, instead of dealing with the patronizing rules you've described. If those owners made a bit of money from it as well, so much the better. If the industry is dying as you say, then coming up with a bunch of money to jump in just before its death spiral probably isn't a great plan. luscious posted:For camming: there are ways to make more but they require more work than most (including myself) are willing to put in. There's tons of indie sites and sites that take less of a % but the amount of work that you have to put into promotion and advertising in general isn't worth it to me and many others. I maintain that I make more not having to worry about indie bullshit than I would with dealing with it. Again, I'd assume that the performers who decide to do this would contract out much of that extra effort to IBM, HP, or Bob and Ed's Server Systems and Lawnmower Repair, but be able to be in charge and set their own rates and cuts. It could well be that doing so would ultimately result in less income (if that 35% actually isn't a bad deal, once you consider expenses), but it seems like it'd be worth looking into. Sorry if this comes across as condescending - I certainly don't want to tell you your business - it just seems that what you've described is pretty exploitative, especially given your lack of benefits, workers' comp, etc. And that makes me wonder about ways to change the way things are done. Peristalsis fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jul 6, 2014 |
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Jul 6, 2014 03:31
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Peristalsis posted:Sorry if this comes across as condescending - I certainly don't want to tell you your business - it just seems that what you've described is pretty exploitative, especially given your lack of benefits, workers' comp, etc. And that makes me wonder about ways to change the way things are done. I appreciate that you're not trying to sound condescending and don't even really think that you are being condescending. However, your post does kinda strike a nerve because it implies (even in a roundabout way) that this hasn't been considered / done by models who work in the industry. Like I said, there are ways to keep 100% of what you make. Unfortunately, they're kinda few and far between as many online processors will not touch the adult industry. Paypal, for example, will refund anyone who tells them that a charge was for adult purposes and will ban the person who accepted the money. Many other processors require that customers end up with personal information (real name, location) of the people who are accepting money. A way to get around this is to accept giftcards from places like Amazon which can be accepted by any email address. Like I said, there are many sites that take a lower percentage. They come with their own challenges though - either not as many customers or more models working which creates more competition. Some don't cover charge backs - which is part of why the site I'm on takes such a high percentage. If a guy spends 200$ and then manages to get the charge reversed, the company absorbs that cost. Or they are more public. MyFreeCams, for example, pays out at 50% but girls describe it as a "roller coaster" and often you have to have a gimmick to make money on the site. I just read an article on Cracked I think? about a model who fucks a ventriloquist dummy that "ejaculates" blood D: There are even sites that take less but unless you advertise you're not likely to make a lot on the site. The main reason why people continue to work on sites that are exploitative and have ridiculous rules (like no self-promotion on other sites, no selling personal items / taking guys offsite) is because the profit outweighs the loving over that is happening. When I decide to go off cam I don't have to email a million people telling them to come back. I don't have to worry that I'm going to check my earnings the next day and see what was xxx amount is now yyy amount. I don't have to promote myself or create my own interface. I can assure you that any idea that you could come up with has been thought up by someone else but it is either not profitable or isn't worth the ongoing effort required to continue. Some do and do well and I'm glad that they are able to keep more than I am but again, I'm certain that I make more on this site than I would if I was on another or working "indie". There are some facets of the industry where I think that indie is best. Escorting, for example, is something that if I were ever to dabble in I would do indie 100%. I don't think that agencies or brothels really provide girls with more safety or more care / protection than screening and working on your own does. I was also talking about this with a friend of mine and mentioned that the kind of guys who go to an agency are probably not the guys that I would want to see anyway as the are the kind of guy who don't want to spend the time looking for what they are looking for. I'd prefer quality over quantity any day - especially if I'm loving and someone is taking a cut of my money. I don't want you to think that I have hostility towards you or what you are presenting as I do think that you're trying to offer solutions that make sense. However, I do think that it is somewhat condescending to assume that it's either something that hasn't been thought of or is something that someone hasn't already done. New camsites pop up regularly that offer hourly pay, a higher payout, or other benefits. Unfortunately, the established sites take the cut that they do not only because they CAN but because no matter how much discontent there is there are 100s of models signing up all the time who are glad to work for even slightly over minimum wage (or even minimum or less than minimum). With regards to opening a club: again I understand the logistics of it but honestly I can't imagine that anyone would want to take the risk. Not just on the business end but also just. I dunno how many strippers you've met / known but we are definitely not all rational, logical, and sane. There's a reason why the stereotype of strippers is that we are crazy and drug addicted. It's because when you have unskilled work that pays well and pays cash you attract all kinds. I would NEVER put myself in a position where I was responsible for a group of strippers - even if I got a % of earnings (in the US where housemoms are standard they get a % or fee at least and if there are 50 girls working and you're making 10 off each you're leaving with 500 w/o tips / sales of any kind (outfits or whatever)) but you're still going to be dealing with people who are drunk, on drugs, getting into fights, or having breakdowns. I'm not saying that everyone would or that they would even be dealing with that on a nightly basis but um. I don't think that a single night passed at any club that I've worked at where there wasn't SOMETHING that the DJ / other staff had to deal with. It could be anything from a fight where the cops got involved to customer disputes, girls crying, getting caught doing drugs, breaking small stupid rules (no alcohol in the dressing room, not going on stage when it's your turn), giving attitude for no reason, giving attitude for a reason, or I think my favourite: a drunk girl biting a bouncer hard enough to draw blood which resulted in him having to get some shots at the ER. The sex workers who are capable of opening a business are very business minded and don't think that it's worth it.
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Jul 6, 2014 06:29
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luscious posted:With regards to opening a club: again I understand the logistics of it but honestly I can't imagine that anyone would want to take the risk. Not just on the business end but also just. I dunno how many strippers you've met / known but we are definitely not all rational, logical, and sane. There's a reason why the stereotype of strippers is that we are crazy and drug addicted. It's because when you have unskilled work that pays well and pays cash you attract all kinds. I would NEVER put myself in a position where I was responsible for a group of strippers - even if I got a % of earnings (in the US where housemoms are standard they get a % or fee at least and if there are 50 girls working and you're making 10 off each you're leaving with 500 w/o tips / sales of any kind (outfits or whatever)) but you're still going to be dealing with people who are drunk, on drugs, getting into fights, or having breakdowns. I'm not saying that everyone would or that they would even be dealing with that on a nightly basis but um. I don't think that a single night passed at any club that I've worked at where there wasn't SOMETHING that the DJ / other staff had to deal with. It could be anything from a fight where the cops got involved to customer disputes, girls crying, getting caught doing drugs, breaking small stupid rules (no alcohol in the dressing room, not going on stage when it's your turn), giving attitude for no reason, giving attitude for a reason, or I think my favourite: a drunk girl biting a bouncer hard enough to draw blood which resulted in him having to get some shots at the ER. Given the risks outlined above and the fact that almost everything is in cash, how many strip clubs would you guess are front businesses to launder money (for example for drug dealers)? Certainly no one would go around advertising it and no one would know for sure unless a club got busted for it, but have you known anyone to work at a front business? Have you ever suspected it about a club you've worked at?
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Jul 6, 2014 08:49
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Skeesix posted:Given the risks outlined above and the fact that almost everything is in cash, how many strip clubs would you guess are front businesses to launder money (for example for drug dealers)? Certainly no one would go around advertising it and no one would know for sure unless a club got busted for it, but have you known anyone to work at a front business? Have you ever suspected it about a club you've worked at? I like to think that anyone who owns a stripclub knows that it's probably going to be under a very watchful eye and that using it as a front is probably going to be a lot harder than say. Opening a nail salon. Or anything other than a stripclub. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen and I have worked for clubs that were owned by bikers. However, I would think that it would be hard to launder money through a business that is under the watchful eye of law enforcement, licensing control boards, and gets audited on the reg. I really don't know that much about money laundering as it's something that I never did so never really learned that much about. One of my bosses had a stack of mine in the safe at work and talked constantly about how I needed to "clean the money" and would scheme with me (mostly trying to get me to invest in his business) but instead I just got breast implants and spent the rest. I have met people who have or do launder money but they're usually customers. Usually well to do customers. Almost every stripclub OWNER that I have met has been a well mannered old white man. Some are pervy but most have honestly seen enough naked women, touched enough naked women, and dealt with enough drunk, high, crying, screaming, or otherwise weird/strange/gross naked women that they view strippers about as sexually as an artist would view a nude model. Managers are a different story. luscious fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Jul 6, 2014 |
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Jul 6, 2014 09:45
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luscious posted:I'm not saying that it doesn't happen and I have worked for clubs that were owned by bikers. I've heard The Silver Dollar is run by Hells Angels, but for all I know they might just hang out there. Are clubs like that safer than regular ones? From what I've been told, their areas tend to be fairly peaceful, as any criminal who wants to keep walking knows not to poo poo where Angels eat. My mom even knows someone who's house was emptied in a B&E, only to have a u-haul bring everything back that night and get an apology for allowing such a disgraceful thing to happen in one of their neighborhoods.
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Jul 6, 2014 12:05
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luscious posted:Once when I had my bunnies one of them sat on the brightness control button on the keyboard and I had to actually stand up and move him. This is the most  thing I've ever read.Wrt all the loving-over that happens, is there any legal system in the world that handles it better? Anything you think might make a good model to look to for reforms? An obvious qualification would be removing the associated stigma, in itself a herculean feat, and I'm not sure where it goes from there.
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Jul 6, 2014 16:11
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The most important thing that can happen is LISTENING TO SEX WORKERS. Everyone wants to make things safer for us. Everyone wants to make things better for us. But rarely do people actually listen to us. An obvious one to start would be to keep money processing websites from refusing to deal with adult transactions. The biggest is obviously decriminalization without strings attached. Aggressive pricing posted:I've heard The Silver Dollar is run by Hells Angels, but for all I know they might just hang out there. Are clubs like that safer than regular ones? I've never worked there so I can't comment. What I CAN say is that almost every club that I have worked at has been owned by the Italian Mafia, Hells Angels, other bikers, construction companies fronting etc. and like I said, they're all just run by little old white men. I personally would not feel safer working for someone whose organization is founded on tough guy we beat people and ruin them because honour.
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Jul 6, 2014 18:08
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Does anyone with experience using windows 8 and AlienWare computers want to help me out with something? PM me if possible. I'm having troubles after being an Apple gal for 10 years. Nothing new or exciting is really happening tho I can post select chat excerpts if y'all are interested in them.
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Jul 9, 2014 01:16
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luscious posted:Does anyone with experience using windows 8 and AlienWare computers want to help me out with something? PM me if possible. I'm having troubles after being an Apple gal for 10 years. This is one of the most interesting threads in the forum. I for one will read anything you care to post.
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Jul 9, 2014 02:22
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This has seriously been a really informative thread! Awhile ago my friends and I used to frequent clubs on a weekly basis to blow off steam. I really liked going because it gave me a chance to fade into the background while still engaging in conversation with friends. I do have to say that there was a huge culture shock for me when I first entered the club because it was nothing like how pop culture and media made it out to be. The only thing that I personally thought was odd was that I was charged a cover and was required a one drink minimum (which my friends who were males weren't), and occasionally the waitress would initially give me attitude on our arrival (I'm thinking this had to do with previous female patrons, and it wasn't personal - I never took it to be personal either). After asking one of the gals who worked there why it's so hard for women to be patrons at the club (women must have a male companion with them to enter this specific club) she mentioned that at times some women would come in looking to solicit or steal customers from the actual dancers. I just kind of assumed this was common place for most clubs, but I was curious if this was the case at some of the clubs you worked at in Canada. Another question that popped into my mind was, do women patrons tend to annoy you because they are less likely to purchase dances or contribute in any way? Or do you just tend to ignore them entirely? As an aside, I really liked going for the people watching - would you ever just post up and watch what was going on? I always found the interactions fascinating and ultimately I really liked watching stage performances. I rarely saw anything creepy or that stood out to me as odd, other than the fact that the women's bathrooms were always in distress. I'll try to think up more well thought out questions for later. I had a whole bunch while reading through this thread but now that I'm staring at what I wrote my mind is completely blank.
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Jul 9, 2014 20:30
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It's all good. Women coming to the club bugged me for a couple of reasons: 1) I'd prefer it if the only people coming into the club (or into my chatroom) are going to be paying customers. It's rare that women get dances. I know that it's unrealistic to expect that everyone wants a dance (let alone a dance from me) but it would be nice if the people who came were serious about actually going to the club for the reason that I'm there (to make money off of them). 2) It is rare that women don't gossip and share their opinions (frequently openly) about the women dancing. This happened with men, as well, but was much more obvious and frequent with women customers. I think that there are a few reasons for this. Firstly, women are generally taught to judge each other / compare / be critical of other women. And secondly, I guess that it was an ego boost for women to go in and see dancers and be like "I'm hotter than her and this is what she does for a living!" It's unpleasant enough to be talked down to when you're hustling, or even dancing with someone, but when you're giving a show to someone who you're quite positive isn't planning on going for a dance, they aren't supporting you in any way (we don't get any % of the cover or overall sales) and they're judging you and gossiping / nitpicking what they think is wrong or off about you it's even worse. 3) The women that show up at the club tend to show up completely made up and dressed to impress. It takes the focus off of us, and it happened pretty regularly that a male customer would approach a group of women and offer to buy them drinks etc. While that might not be their intention (hopefully) it interferes with our ability to properly hustle the men that are in the club. It's distracting and disrespectful, in my opinion, to specifically go to someone's place of business with the intention or desire to take away from their business. While that is, again, hopefully not the intention of the women stopping by, it can often seem that way - especially when you have seen it over and over again. 4) This might be the biggest: when a woman is with a group of men it is much harder to not only approach the men but it's also much hard to get them to go for dances. I don't know if it's because they're going to feel judged as it's easier to justify getting dances when everyone you're with (or the majority of people you're with) are going to go or if it's because generally girlfriend's of a group of guy friends will all know each other and the guy will assume that buddy's girlfriend is going to tell his girlfriend that he went or what. For the reasons above also w/r/t judgement and gossiping it was also difficult for myself or my coworkers to want to approach a group of men because after we would leave the scandalized woman would  did u see that girl There were times that I had female customers who I liked. I had a regular who was a trans woman and got a lot of transphobia from the other girls. I had met her before she started transitioning and she wasn't a great customer back then. However, once she started transitioning her and I spoke and I mentioned how amazing she looked and how much more like herself she seemed and how happy I was for her. She took me to the VIP for dances and started crying and told me that no one had EVER said that to her and that since she started transitioning, all she had gotten was negativity, personal attacks, transphobia, and generally horrible treatment from EVERYONE in her life - even other dancers who she was paying. She quickly became one of my best customers and we still keep in contact through FB. Another time, a super pregnant woman came into the club, asked me to go for dances with her, had me play with her nipples (something that I would only do for women - I would never ~touch men sexually~ [like with the express purpose of them getting off*]), had an orgasm, gave me 100$ for two songs (60$ tip  ) and then left. I danced for many couples, as well, and that was generally fun as long as the women were enthusiastic. Mostly though the women that would come into the club were looking for attention or were looking to put us down in order to feel better about themselves. It wasn't always the case but once you experience something a million times it's easy to project that onto everyone and it kinda becomes a vicious cycle of "these girls are such bitches ugh" on both sides. As for weird chat stuff: quote:eduardofancypants: When I was a young lad, I used to throw puppies at bags of skittles. But I did it gently. I mean none of those are exciting and it's obvious that I've started just actually trolling them but meh. Gotta get kicks somehow. * I know that technically grinding on a dude / dancing for him is seen as ~sexual contact~ but I was never a hard grinder and would never grind long enough to actually get a guy off. I know girls who have had guys cum in their pants either from grinding or just being super turned on or whatever but luckily never dealt with that myself. I don't consider dancing to be inherently sexual, nor do I find the kind of contact that men would get with dancers (most) to be inherently sexual for the purpose of ACTUAL SEXUAL CONTACT but that's my opinion and I'm certain that many don't feel the same way. Nor do I care. luscious fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 01:56
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luscious posted:I know girls who have had guys cum in their pants either from grinding or just being super turned on or whatever but luckily never dealt with that myself. How did the girls that did have that happen to them react? I imagine (I'm a guy, but whatever)that most would feel (rightfully so, especially if they have/had a similar attitude to your own that dancing is not an OVERLY sexual) violated?
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Jul 10, 2014 13:39
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Guni posted:How did the girls that did have that happen to them react? I imagine (I'm a guy, but whatever)that most would feel (rightfully so, especially if they have/had a similar attitude to your own that dancing is not an OVERLY sexual) violated? I imagine that you're imagining right.
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Jul 10, 2014 14:14
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luscious posted:I imagine that you're imagining right. If it happened to me, I'd be embarrassed as gently caress and probably tip the girl double what the dance cost to begin with. How did the guys you saw it happen to react? Did they blame the girls?
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Jul 10, 2014 14:49
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luscious posted:* I know that technically grinding on a dude / dancing for him is seen as ~sexual contact~ but I was never a hard grinder and would never grind long enough to actually get a guy off. I know girls who have had guys cum in their pants either from grinding or just being super turned on or whatever but luckily never dealt with that myself. I don't consider dancing to be inherently sexual, nor do I find the kind of contact that men would get with dancers (most) to be inherently sexual for the purpose of ACTUAL SEXUAL CONTACT but that's my opinion and I'm certain that many don't feel the same way. Nor do I care. I moved to a new area almost 2 years ago, and I really do miss this kind of private dance. Where I live now, it seems that it's all about trying to get the guy off as quickly as possible. There have been several occasions when I've had to tell girls to stop for that purpose. I even had one ask me if I wanted to get off.  These days when I'm asked for a dance, I just flat out tell them I don't buy dances. It seems that I'm an odd case.
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Jul 10, 2014 15:55
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luscious posted:
This! I noticed this all too frequently when I'd go with my friends. They actually would refer to me as a grenade at times but they were always cool with having me tag along. I can see the whole "One upping" thing too. I didn't really have much interest in that, I mean I knew where I was going and what was going to take place. It's not my place to judge the appearance of someone especially when they're at their job and their job relies heavily on their appearance. I'm a rarity I guess, I would just see this as an opportunity to hang out with my friends in a place where I knew I wouldn't get hit on, kind of like girls at gay bars. I also do think it changed my opinion just by going. Like I mentioned earlier, there was this huge realization that these clubs were not the den of sin media made it out to be. Anyway, thanks for the reply and thanks for giving us a peek into your life!
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Jul 10, 2014 16:27
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razorrozar posted:If it happened to me, I'd be embarrassed as gently caress and probably tip the girl double what the dance cost to begin with. How did the guys you saw it happen to react? Did they blame the girls? I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at here, tbh. It's an inappropriate thing to happen. You know that the girl feels violated, you know that you would feel embarrassed. Do you want me to go into detail of stories of girls getting assaulted and how it made them feel or how the men reacted after the fact?
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Jul 10, 2014 17:19
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luscious posted:I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at here, tbh. It's an inappropriate thing to happen. You know that the girl feels violated, you know that you would feel embarrassed. Do you want me to go into detail of stories of girls getting assaulted and how it made them feel or how the men reacted after the fact? Not really, I suppose. My apologies, I wasn't really thinking about that when I asked.
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Jul 10, 2014 17:26
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luscious posted:I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at here, tbh. It's an inappropriate thing to happen. You know that the girl feels violated, you know that you would feel embarrassed. Do you want me to go into detail of stories of girls getting assaulted and how it made them feel or how the men reacted after the fact? I'm pretty sure the question was more along the lines of "was it always embarrassed men and violated women, or did some women set out to do it / is it sometimes an allowed extra" or that kind of thing. Did you feel super violated when the pregnant woman came? If not, why not? Was there an understanding that it might happen? So if a dancer has that understanding with a man (who's paying extra for it being on the table) is she really going to feel violated? I mean she might, but she might not. It's a genuine question taken far too defensively. The one time I went to a strip club I wasn't a huge fan because it was a touch too sexual rather than just sexy, and the women who opened up and chatted to me off the books weren't really happy, but they couldn't figure any other way to maintain their lifestyle. And that was at a high end club (Stringfellows in Covent Garden, London). It's nice to hear it's not always that way and some people actually enjoy (parts of) it as well as enjoying the money.
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Jul 10, 2014 17:43
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razorrozar posted:Not really, I suppose. My apologies, I wasn't really thinking about that when I asked. Thank you for your understanding. I think that this struck a chord bc it's not uncommon for people to ask sex workers about trauma that they, or their coworkers have faced, without batting an eye at how inappropriate it is. Or actually getting off on it. I doubt that you're in the second category as I believe that's a special kind of horrible person but I'm glad that you see what I was getting at. Masonity posted:I'm pretty sure the question was more along the lines of "was it always embarrassed men and violated women, or did some women set out to do it / is it sometimes an allowed extra" or that kind of thing. Business wise and just for basic sanitation, it really makes no sense to set out to make a man cum in his pants while you're dancing for him. If you and the dancer decide that the point of the dance is for you to get off, hopefully she will go about it in a way that is safe and will keep herself from coming into contact with your bodily fluids. Business wise it makes no sense because unless a flat rate is decided upon (I knew girls in Toronto who would charge 100 for a blowjob. 100 whether it took 1 song or 10 songs - though they would often say that it never took more than one) a dude is going to have to leave to clean up when he ejaculates, or if that isn't a priority for him and if the girl doesn't mind dancing on jizz pants he's probably not going to want more extreme stimulation on his junk. Game over at that point. quote:Did you feel super violated when the pregnant woman came? If not, why not? Was there an understanding that it might happen? I have said many times through the thread, and even in the post in question, that I often went further with women than I ever would with men. I always have made my boundaries BEYOND clear with people I'm dancing for. I don't know if you have ever given a woman an orgasm but it isn't like "la la la BOOM I CAME" it's pretty obvious what's happening. If I'm stimulating someone in an obviously sexual way and can tell that they are enjoying themselves and can tell that it's going to a certain place and am okay with that then no, I'm not going to be upset when something like that happens because I was enthusiastically consenting and participating in an action that leads to a reaction. In the case of men cumming in their pants during a dance, it's almost never a dancer who is intending for it to happen as it's a really unsafe and unsanitary situation. If she wants and expects it to happen she's probably going to be jerking him wearing a condom. At least that's been my observation. quote:So if a dancer has that understanding with a man (who's paying extra for it being on the table) is she really going to feel violated? I mean she might, but she might not. It's a genuine question taken far too defensively. I cannot, and will not, ever speak for another sex worker. I can give my opinion or tell you what other dancers have told me but that's really it. I will also not conflate "a dude cumming in his pants during a dance" with "a dude cumming while engaging in extras with a dancer" as they are really not the same and not even in the same ball park. I would assume and hope that a sex worker who is engaging in any act will not feel violated during or after it. quote:The one time I went to a strip club I wasn't a huge fan because it was a touch too sexual rather than just sexy, and the women who opened up and chatted to me off the books weren't really happy, but they couldn't figure any other way to maintain their lifestyle. And that was at a high end club (Stringfellows in Covent Garden, London). It's nice to hear it's not always that way and some people actually enjoy (parts of) it as well as enjoying the money. I enjoy most of this industry. The parts of it that I don't enjoy are not only a lower % than other jobs and industries that I have been in, but are also just generally the same things that people dislike about their jobs. I don't think that anyone likes every part of what they do or deal with - even the people happiest with their jobs. For example, my dog walker loves her job more than almost anyone else I've ever met. She doesn't enjoy scooping up dog poo poo or driving customer to customer. She also doesn't like some of the owners that she deals with. But if you ask her out of 10 how she feels about her job she'll answer with 9 no question.
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Jul 10, 2014 18:26
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