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Regalingualius posted:It mainly comes from a perception of him being patronizing to Mia in 3-4, and him telling Franziska to step out of the investigation in the second day of 3-5 to "leave this to the men" (roughly paraphrasing, it's been ages since I last played it), as I recall. So two specific lines of dialogue
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Jul 7, 2014 21:26
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Austrian mook posted:So two specific lines of dialogue He also blamed Phoenix for not protecting Mia even she was his far more capable boss which is kinda the crux of his whole character arc in T&T.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:29
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The gently caress are you talking about? Mia wasn't Godot's boss at all. She was the Phoenix of Grossberg Law.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:31
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Strange Quark posted:He also blamed Phoenix for not protecting Mia even she was his far more capable boss which is kinda the crux of his whole character arc in T&T. Yeah, this annoyed the hell out of me. Step the gently caress off Godot, she's an adult.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:33
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Waffleman_ posted:The gently caress are you talking about? Mia wasn't Godot's boss at all. She was the Phoenix of Grossberg Law. Blame my ambiguous pronouns. His is referring to Phoenix.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:33
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Strange Quark posted:He also blamed Phoenix for not protecting Mia even she was his far more capable boss which is kinda the crux of his whole character arc in T&T. Its natural to react negatively and irrationally to loss.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:35
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Austrian mook posted:Its natural to react negatively and irrationally to loss. And you can be sexist while doing so as well.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:36
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Kajeesus posted:In one case it's mentioned that Godot usually works three cases at a time, and it's strongly implied he wins most of those. This is laughably wrong. It's explicitly stated in 3-2 that Godot had never taken a case (3-4)as a prosecutor prior to then, and then in 3-3 Gumshoe says the only reason Godot ever takes a case is if Phoenix is involved.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:39
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Strange Quark posted:And you can be sexist while doing so as well. I don't think it's sexist to be upset that the woman you love was killed and you were unable to do anything about it, especially when he was heading the case to begin with
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Jul 7, 2014 21:39
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Austrian mook posted:So two specific lines of dialogue Every interaction he has with, or about women, yes.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:40
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Austrian mook posted:I don't think it's sexist to be upset that the woman you love was killed and you were unable to do anything about it, especially when he was heading the case to begin with It kind of is when he's blaming Phoenix for not protecting her instead of, y'know, Redd White for killing her.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:41
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Godot stuff: Doesn't he mean specifically saving her from being murdered? It feels reaching to say she'd need Phoenix's protection in a courtroom sense as it's implied there were romantically linked and he knew she was a good lawyer. Blaming someone who you feel could or should have been there to stop the murder is natural behaviour, even if it's not realistic. It felt to me as though he irrationally blamed Phoenix for not being able to stop her being murdered, and tried to the direct Fey family thereafter because he himself was unable to save her from being murdered. I wouldn't say that's strictly sexist behaviour, the guy was grieving from losing a loved one and thought he had to do what was best for her family in her absence. I wanted to replay T+T sometime soon, so I'll remind myself to consider his character in this way further throughout.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:41
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I feel as though it's important to mention, for the sake of the fragile egos of Godot fans, that Godot being sexist doesn't make him a bad character.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:44
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Plom Bar posted:I feel as though it's important to mention, for the sake of the fragile egos of Godot fans, that Godot being sexist doesn't make him a bad character. Yeah, Godot is one of my favorite characters. It's not like sexism can't exist as a character flaw. V  V
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Jul 7, 2014 21:48
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Strange Quark posted:It kind of is when he's blaming Phoenix for not protecting her instead of, y'know, Redd White for killing her. Those aren't exclusive to each other. It basically goes without saying that he blames the murderer for murdering her, it's not something that needs explicitly stating, and Redd White isn't a particularly relevant character to the game. Godot hating Phoenix is integral to it and required explanation, but that doesn't mean Godot hating Phoenix for not being there to stop the murder means he's OK with White for doing it. Sexism can be a trait of characters you're meant to like for certain, and it doesn't change my opinion of him. I don't think it's particularly true that Godot has those facets to his character, and sayings like "leave this to the men", old fashioned English idioms are definitely not indicative of it, even where the rest of his behaviour could signify it more successfully.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:55
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I have to admit I'm torn right now On the one hand we are presented with a golden opportunity to discuss how a person's sexism can often will take on a more nuanced form that the obvious, easy signifiers that our culture recognizes as overtly sexist, and that sexism as an ingrained aspect of a greater patriarchal society can easily be missed or written off as effectively harmless while the pervasive attitudes are allowed to live on unchecked. On the other hand, ANIME LAWYER VIDEOGAMES.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:00
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Aurain posted:Those aren't exclusive to each other. I think at one point he calls Franziska a rebellious filly and implies Phoenix should be keeping her in line or something like that (having Franziska briefly as a partner for that investigation was of course great), so the sexism is definitely there. It's just not the He-Man Women Haters brand of sexism so much as an exaggeration of the casual "Oh that's not really sexism" sexism of high society in earlier decades, which is absolutely the kind of feel they were going for with Godot. Edit: Thinking about it, basically everyone is patronizing to Franziska, including Phoenix, and her frustration with that could have been an interesting angle to her character. They sort of do a bit with her trying to prove herself, and she does show some moments of maturity, but mostly she is just written as immature and kind of bratty. chumbler fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 22:03
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chumbler posted:I think at one point he calls Franziska a rebellious filly and implies Phoenix should be keeping her in line or something like that (having Franziska briefly as a partner for that investigation was of course great), so the sexism is definitely there. It's just not the He-Man Women Haters brand of sexism so much as an exaggeration of the casual "Oh that's not really sexism" sexism of high society in earlier decades, which is absolutely the kind of feel they were going for with Godot. This is pretty much what I was going for, yeah. I mean he's he's a pretty good character but he's also the tragic villain of the piece and thus obliged to be kind of a douche.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:15
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Aurain posted:Those aren't exclusive to each other. Not blaming Redd White was probably due to the writers not wanting to have the fine details of AA1 come up in AA3, but perhaps a better question would be, why doesn't he blame Maya? It was her phone that got tapped, she was the only one who could have guessed something dangerous might have gone down, and she was the first one on the scene. She most likely couldn't have done anything to change the situation, but neither could Phoenix. Does he not blame her because she's Mia's sister? Because she's young? Or because she's a helpless little girl? I don't really know where my exact feelings on this lie, but it's interesting to think about.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:16
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The exact quote is "Hey, Filly. Know your role and shut your mouth. I can't stand women like you."Plom Bar posted:This is laughably wrong. It's explicitly stated in 3-2 that Godot had never taken a case (3-4)as a prosecutor prior to then, and then in 3-3 Gumshoe says the only reason Godot ever takes a case is if Phoenix is involved. What Gumshoe actually says in 3-3 is that Godot was working on three other cases, but he dropped them all as soon as Phoenix took a case. The idle gossip in 3-5 is about him being the most successful prosecutor in the office since Edgeworth went abroad.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:17
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Strange Quark posted:Not blaming Redd White was probably due to the writers not wanting to have the fine details of AA1 come up in AA3 Hey remember, Godot can't see Red on White 
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Jul 7, 2014 22:18
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Strange Quark posted:He also blamed Phoenix for not protecting Mia even she was his far more capable boss which is kinda the crux of his whole character arc in T&T. To be fair, she did need protecting. Not because she was a woman but because she was trying to bring down an incredibly powerful guy who controlled the police and obviously wasn't above murder. Yeah it wasn't Phoenix's fault, but Godot needed someone to blame and defeat so he could feel vindicated even though it wasn't his fault either. The guy was just grieving and handling it poorly.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:22
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Kajeesus posted:The idle gossip in 3-5 is about him being the most successful prosecutor in the office since Edgeworth went abroad. Which is quite obviously not true, being that Edgeworth had a 4 year perfect win record whereas Godot, who had been in the office for 4 months, had already lost three trials, including his first two. I'll concede that I was wrong about what Gumshoe said in 3-3, but the implication of his character is that he creates a false reputation about himself to intimidate Phoenix and charm others around him. Luke Atmey speaks of Godot's legend even before he'd ever gone to trial, which in itself should speak volumes about how much veracity there could be to any claims of Godot's proficiency as a prosecutor.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:27
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The most successful currently active prosecutor. Luke Atmey was just blowing hot air and had nothing to do with Godot, and Godot was pretty open about that case being his first. The implication of what Gumshoe says is that unlike Phoenix, prosecutors aren't idle for months at a time. Strange Quark posted:why doesn't he blame Maya? It was her phone that got tapped, she was the only one who could have guessed something dangerous might have gone down, and she was the first one on the scene. She most likely couldn't have done anything to change the situation, but neither could Phoenix. Does he not blame her because she's Mia's sister? Because she's young? Or because she's a helpless little girl? I don't really know where my exact feelings on this lie, but it's interesting to think about. It was Mia's office phone that got tapped, not Maya's, and even though Maya had known that Mia was dealing with someone dangerous, I don't think Godot would've known that. My guess is that he imagined that Mia and Phoenix had the same working relationship that he and Mia did, when in reality, Phoenix had no idea that Redd White even existed before after the murder. From the outside, Phoenix is the man who took down Redd White too late, and Maya is the woman who lost her sister. Then he even took over the Fey law offices and changed it to Wright and co. It's also possible that Diego met Maya as a 14-year-old, while Phoenix was a total stranger.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:44
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Luke Atmey just thought Godot was the guy from the play and figured that if he had an entire play about him, he must be special.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:54
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Waffleman_ posted:Luke Atmey just thought Godot was the guy from the play and figured that if he had an entire play about him, he must be special. Well the game really was about waiting for Godot's big reveal.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:40
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I would totally put on a production of Waiting for Godot with the characters in Ace Attorney cosplay.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:49
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Out of curiosity, does anyone know the relative popularity of the characters? I imagine Nick and Edgeworth are at the top, Edgeworth probably with a healthy lead, but I can't really guess beyond that.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:58
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Larry is #1 in my heart.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:05
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chumbler posted:Out of curiosity, does anyone know the relative popularity of the characters? I imagine Nick and Edgeworth are at the top, Edgeworth probably with a healthy lead, but I can't really guess beyond that. There was an actual popularity poll hosted by Capcom shortly after Dual Destiny's release in Japan. It was hard to track down the list and I found it on some random person's Tumblr, so hopefully it's accurate. quote:Note: GS1 - first game; GS2 - Justice for all; GS3 - Trials and Tribulations; GS4 - Apollo Justice; GS5 - Dual Destinies; GK1 and GK2 - Investigations
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Jul 8, 2014 05:08
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quote:14: Wendy Oldbag [GS1] - either a joke vote, or the Japanese just love her a lot for her quirky personality. Very much the latter, I’m afraid. I'm still disappointed that when they mention an older woman working at the space center as the other witness, it wasn't another visit from her in that raygun-toting space suit 
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Jul 8, 2014 05:12
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You say disappointed, I say relieved.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:14
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I'm still disappointed that when they mention an older woman working at the space center as the other witness, it wasn't another visit from her in that raygun-toting space suit Not to mention that crazy old lady trying to climb the fence into the park in AJ is just some random old bat. Maybe Oldbag finally passed on? 
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Jul 8, 2014 05:14
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I can see Apollo being first after AA5, but the real surprise is that Fulbright was so high. I mean I liked the guy, but I wouldn't rank him above so many others. I'm guessing it's more of a timing thing. Also there's no justice for the Blue Badger. Edit: Colgate Zeus. Colgate loving Zeus. Japan. chumbler fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 05:17
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Aristotle Means is legit hilarious, it's true.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:19
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chumbler posted:Edit: Colgate Zeus. Colgate loving Zeus. Japan. That truly is the best joke name he could ever have  .
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Jul 8, 2014 05:19
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Why are Godot and Diego separate entries? Also I am firmly happy Oldbag beat Phoenix's weird fanservicey adopted daughter. Oldbag forever.
LordHippoman fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 16, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 05:23
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LordHippoman posted:Why are Godot and Diego separate entries? Also I am firmly happy Oldbag beat Phoenix's weird fanservicey adopted daughter. Oldbag forever. Because it's something should be in spoilers, that's why  . Even if it's blindingly obvious once you actually see Diego.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:26
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chumbler posted:I'm guessing it's more of a timing thing. I would like to see this done again now that the "new" has worn off all the new characters. I bet some would fall considerably. Not Colgate Zeus, though. Push him to the moon.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:27
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Despite showing up in multiple cases of 2 games, Trucy is still functionally a nonentity of a character.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:27
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