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Rewatching Sin City recently I finally realized that Dwight has to be rescued like 3 times by Miho. Miho is the hero and Dwight the sidekick.
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Jul 7, 2014 23:35
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WWZ is only a good movie if you imagine Brad Pitt's character as Death. Every single time he goes somewhere or does something, someone dies. It's actually quite amazing how lethal he is in the movie.
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Jul 7, 2014 23:41
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I agree. Pretty much the only major safe haven in an entire country is totally compromised just because he happened to be there!
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Jul 7, 2014 23:45
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50 Foot Ant posted:Return of the King: Oh, God, the Hobbits Jump on the Bed Orgy scene was just terrible. I saw it opening night, and holy poo poo, that scene just went on and on and on and on. It was loving terrible. If you could choose any director to adapt one of your novels, who would it be?
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Jul 8, 2014 00:27
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KoB posted:The book didnt have a cure at all, right? I think its much more interesting that there wasnt a cure or magic way out. It was just a thing they had to deal with from now on. Yup, no cure. Humanity basically became vampires (daylight was bad and stuff) but didn't actually need to feed on humans if I recall correctly, at least not after a while. The protagonist was one of the last old humans alive spending his nights holed up in his fortress and his days going around killing the zombies/vampires while they were sleeping. In the end he's captured through a ruse and it's revealed that the new generation of humanity have had things pretty well back to normal for a while now, all things considered, which he didn't know because when they were awake, at night, he was hidden and scared shitless because they were trying to get to him in his fortress. You know, because he was killing them indiscriminately when they were vulnerable, women and children and everyone. Like the mythical vampires of old, except in reverse. They put him to trial and execute him, I think, and the legendary monster that stalked through the daytime and killed them was finally dealt with. Hence the title: I am Legend. Now compare that to the bullshit movie that, as usual, end with a safe haven and a cure gotten from a sample of the savior who was somehow genetically immune or some poo poo. gently caress that.
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Jul 8, 2014 00:49
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Taeke posted:Now compare that to the bullshit movie that, as usual, end with a safe haven and a cure gotten from a sample of the savior who was somehow genetically immune or some poo poo. gently caress that. Don't forget that the cure was brought to the safe haven by a crazy lady who thought god talked to her.
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Jul 8, 2014 01:01
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The sad thing is, even the alternate ending is bullshit. Waste of a good novel.
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Jul 8, 2014 01:05
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drat, I had forgotten about that. Again, say what you will about World War Z, but at least zombies ignoring ill people and the 'cure' being giving everyone an incurable but not actually lethal disease is more original and better than the standard poo poo you see all over.
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Jul 8, 2014 01:09
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Celery Face posted:It also kinda weirded me out how all the female characters were strippers, hookers or just walked around in their underwear. The one exception doesn't even speak, you only learn about her through slightly creepy monologues about "sweet little deadly Miho." Well, Frank Miller's kind of a creep.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:46
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Celery Face posted:It also kinda weirded me out how all the female characters were strippers, hookers or just walked around in their underwear. The one exception doesn't even speak, you only learn about her through slightly creepy monologues about "sweet little deadly Miho." To be fair to a guy who really doesn't deserve it: Beef Jerky Robot posted:Well, Frank Miller's kind of a creep. Noir-ish stuff really isn't what you would consider a bastion of progressive thought.
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Jul 8, 2014 06:19
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Taeke posted:drat, I had forgotten about that. Again, say what you will about World War Z, but at least zombies ignoring ill people and the 'cure' being giving everyone an incurable but not actually lethal disease is more original and better than the standard poo poo you see all over. Haha, loving nope. It was way, way loving worse than the smaltziest "I found a safe haven and true luv and it turns out my dog Sprky lived and he's here in our rugged Utopia" because while that ending is just overly sweet, Lindelof is just insulting stupid. The reasoning behind them ignoring sick people doesn't stand up to more than half a second of scrutiny; what does it matter if someone has terminal leukemia when their throat gets ripped out and they rise as a walking corpse? Throat-ripping or [insert fatal disease] ends up with the same reanimated corpse. Then on top of that they have to be granted a super sweet Detect Fatal Sickness template bonus on top of that within like a 50 foot cone so they aren't attacking the wrong sort of people. I mean reanimatecd corpses that require headshots is one thing, but once they get super-sickness detecting powers that make no sense they might as well fly and breath fire, right?
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Jul 8, 2014 06:24
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Frostwerks posted:To be fair to a guy who really doesn't deserve it: Even so
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Jul 8, 2014 06:29
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LeJackal posted:The reasoning behind them ignoring sick people doesn't stand up to more than half a second of scrutiny
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Jul 8, 2014 06:56
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Taeke posted:
That wasn't the movie they were discussing, unless I somehow missed it in there. They're discussing World War Z. However - In the book, they used reconstituted blood and something else to abate the need to feed. And some percentage of the 'turned' were saved by a mutation of the virus that left them in control of their minds despite being 'dead'. So the protagonist, who had been going around murdering people who actually weren't mindless killers realized that, in this new society, he was the monster that would haunt their legends into the future, the same way the vampires had haunted non-vampire people due to outbreaks in the past.
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Jul 8, 2014 07:03
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Tiggum posted:You say this like as though zombies make any kind of sense to begin with. This is why I hate "realistic" zombies. They're not realistic. At all. Saying it's a virus instead of magic makes it less believable, not more, because we know about viruses and they absolutely can't do that. Magic can do anything. So much of this. With D&D zombies, they explain it. Wizard takes corpse, uses a magic spell, corpse is reanimated into a zombie. When wizard dies, the magic animating the zombie goes with them. And zombie dies. If you catch a disease from a zombie, its because they are rotting. None of this virus bullshit that makes them ~~immune~~ to bacteria. Or coyotes. Plus, "A wizard did it" makes a ton more sense. Wizards are assholes, of course they'd make zombies. (Can we have a zombie movie where a wizard did it?)
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Jul 8, 2014 07:21
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Nope, because people are picky about what causes their magic running corpses. My major issue with World War Z was why these clearly well-organized military states cropping up around the globe never tried to reclaim any territory. There's only so many people in Isreal and it's mostly low-density outside the urban zones. With a large portion of the population clearly inside the walled off city, there couldn't be so many zombies in the surrounding region that simply killing them all with that fleet of copters wouldn't be viable. And a hell of a lot safer than keeping everyone locked in a high-density, no-escape zone, just waiting for one idiot with a bite to get inside.
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Jul 8, 2014 07:40
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Tiggum posted:You say this like as though zombies make any kind of sense to begin with. This is why I hate "realistic" zombies. They're not realistic. At all. Saying it's a virus instead of magic makes it less believable, not more, because we know about viruses and they absolutely can't do that. Magic can do anything. Plus as much as people bitch and moan about the movie not being true to the source material the book had poo poo way more goofy that that. Like zombies walking around on the bottom of the ocean indefinitely, zombies freezing solid during the winter and then thawing out in the spring no worse for wear, zombies with their lungs turned inside-out from the force of explosions and still trucking along, all the while insisting that this was because of a viral infection and totally plausible...yet something actually new and original like the disease thing in the movie is just too much to handle.
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Jul 8, 2014 07:41
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Zombies that just keep attacking people no matter what are scary. Zombies that leave you alone if you have the sniffles are lame. Best part of WWZ is that scientist they bring with them that can't stop making noise and alerting zombies. He drops or bumps into shot like 5 times in a row.
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Jul 8, 2014 07:50
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ThirdEmperor posted:Nope, because people are picky about what causes their magic running corpses. I haven't read the book in ages, but as I remember it, it was cool because it was a lot of shorter stories from various places, instead of a single character's arc. It was far from high literature, but the movie was completely different and explicitly contradicted a huge amount of stuff from the book. Really the only similarity between the book and the movie is that there are zombies, and a lot of them. It's honestly kind of weird that they named it after the book and made it seem like a film adaptation when it really wasn't at all.
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Jul 8, 2014 07:52
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ThirdEmperor posted:Nope, because people are picky about what causes their magic running corpses. Sounds like some kind of hamfisted analogy. I haven't seen it though and it looks like I probably never will.
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Jul 8, 2014 08:00
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TheFallenEvincar posted:The one part of Sin City that always annoys me a lil when I run through it is Little Kid Nancy's tearful thankful dialogue with Hartigan when he's in the hospital. "Still a virgin, thanks to you!" what kind of little kid says that, it's just stilted awkward dumb Frank Miller talk. Just looked it up and I thought Robert Rodriguez had scored the entire film, but it turns out that Yellow Bastard was the only sequence he did.  Dude should probably stick to directing or at least coordinate with his co-composers.
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Jul 8, 2014 08:01
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Years ago there was supposed to be a leaked script that had everyone raving about how great WWZ was going to be. Was that the Russia ending or something else?
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Jul 8, 2014 08:03
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Dr_Amazing posted:Years ago there was supposed to be a leaked script that had everyone raving about how great WWZ was going to be. Was that the Russia ending or something else?
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Jul 8, 2014 08:06
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Dr_Amazing posted:Years ago there was supposed to be a leaked script that had everyone raving about how great WWZ was going to be. Was that the Russia ending or something else? A full script was written by Ike guy. It got leaked and looked awesome. Some weird poo poo happened with the rights, and suddenly a new script was written by another guy in conjunction with a new studio or something. The new script absolutely sucked rear end and is the one that got made. At least that's my memory of the development cycle.
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Jul 8, 2014 08:17
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What was in the first one? can you read it or a summary anywhere?
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Jul 8, 2014 09:58
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CJacobs posted:I agree. Pretty much the only major safe haven in an entire country is totally compromised just because he happened to be there! The real lesson behind World War Z is that Brad Pitt is bad luck. Goes to Israel, zombies create a meat ladder to climb over the wall; does a stealth mission with some soldiers, wife calls him just as they're about to sneak past; evacs on a plane, zombies magically teleport into the bathroom.
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Jul 8, 2014 12:23
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Elysiume posted:What I've heard about the Russia ending sounds terrible. More terrible than the ending WWZ did have. The main issue I've heard about the Russia ending was that it wasn't really an ending. Quick breakdown for those who haven't read about it: Movie is mostly the same (leaving out the scenes of people not getting attacked) up until the plane. Instead of going to England the plane heads toward Russia, when they get there Brad Pitt is conscripted into a Russian militia that is tasked with killing zombies. Skip ahead an indeterminate amount of time. The family is now living in a refugee camp in Florida with the wife in a relationship with Matthew Fox (who you see in the released film for all of 30 seconds.) Back to Russia where Pitt is still killing zombies (this is where the city fighting scenes from the end of the movie happen) and he ends up noticing that zombies start slowing down because of the cold weather. Pitt and the Jewish soldier lady from earlier end up fleeing across Russia, getting to a boat that will take them to America. They land in Oregon and THE END. Somebody actually thought that ending it on a cliffhanger where the zombies are all still around and Pitt doesn't get back to his family was a good idea. This wasn't just a script either, they actually filmed all that stuff before Damon Lindelof, who they brought in after terrible test screenings, watched the original version and told them it sucked.
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Jul 8, 2014 12:46
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Tiggum posted:You say this like as though zombies make any kind of sense to begin with. This is why I hate "realistic" zombies. They're not realistic. At all. Saying it's a virus instead of magic makes it less believable, not more, because we know about viruses and they absolutely can't do that. Magic can do anything. The problem isn't 'realism' its internal logical consistency. The central conceit of 'it needs a healthy host to spread' falls apart when Sal, the 10-pack a day smoker who can't climb a flight of stairs, gets his throat ripped out and then his undead corpse starts doing parkour at the Olympic level. It obviously doesn't need a 'healthy' host because the zombie effect turns every corpse into a super-athlete regardless of 'health' while alive. (Did I mention that I hate 'fast' zombies?) Once the premise falls apart, we have to ask ourselves "If the health of the victim is obviously immaterial, why would the zombies avoid the terminally ill?" The answer, of course, is because Lindelof is a hack and wanted a lazy way to provide for a cheap way out for the hero and ham-fisted 'drama' with 'hard choices' that only arise with the most ham-fisted contrivances a script-writer can produce. muscles like this? posted:Somebody actually thought that ending it on a cliffhanger where the zombies are all still around and Pitt doesn't get back to his family was a good idea. This wasn't just a script either, they actually filmed all that stuff before Damon Lindelof, who they brought in after terrible test screenings, watched the original version and told them it sucked. The real mistake was letting Lindelof do re-writes for them. The man should be barred from writing, as he has some kind of reverse Midas touch where everything he touches turns into an illogical mess where nothing connects with anything else.
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Jul 8, 2014 13:34
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LeJackal posted:The problem isn't 'realism' its internal logical consistency. The central conceit of 'it needs a healthy host to spread' falls apart when Sal, the 10-pack a day smoker who can't climb a flight of stairs, gets his throat ripped out and then his undead corpse starts doing parkour at the Olympic level. It obviously doesn't need a 'healthy' host because the zombie effect turns every corpse into a super-athlete regardless of 'health' while alive. (Did I mention that I hate 'fast' zombies?) Why is it that the people who whine about "plot holes" are always the ones who fail to understand the most basic plot points that are explained to the audience directly in the movie?
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Jul 8, 2014 13:55
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...of SCIENCE! posted:Why is it that the people who whine about "plot holes" are always the ones who fail to understand the most basic plot points that are explained to the audience directly in the movie? I know that characters in the movie say it, but what happens on-screen contradicts what they say. Obviously the characters are written to be mistaken in that instance or its just a bad script. (Its the latter.)
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Jul 8, 2014 14:02
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...of SCIENCE! posted:Plus as much as people bitch and moan about the movie not being true to the source material the book had poo poo way more goofy that that. Like zombies walking around on the bottom of the ocean indefinitely, zombies freezing solid during the winter and then thawing out in the spring no worse for wear, zombies with their lungs turned inside-out from the force of explosions and still trucking along, all the while insisting that this was because of a viral infection and totally plausible...yet something actually new and original like the disease thing in the movie is just too much to handle. Yeah, there were a few things there that made no sense because the book makes it clear they are just reanimated human bodies and get weaker over time due to just using their muscles. Then he takes "the virus keeps bacteria from eating them" to mean that literally no normal decomposition happens. Seems like he should know that freezing a human body means that when it thaws it literally falls apart since the cells burst, and that not even a zombie would be able to function at the bottom of the ocean. The main narrative did not even need them to have these powers since the threat of new outbreaks will be ever present regardless since there has to be a natural reservoir.
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Jul 8, 2014 17:12
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Seems like he should know that freezing a human body means that when it thaws it literally falls apart since the cells burst I haven't read the book since middle school almost 10 years ago so I may be remembering wrong but I recall him addressing this. And by "address it" I mean he just kinda says "Normally being thawed destroys the body's cells, but for some mysterious reason we don't understand it doesn't happen to zombies v  v" and moves on.
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Jul 8, 2014 18:29
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:I haven't read the book since middle school almost 10 years ago so I may be remembering wrong but I recall him addressing this. And by "address it" I mean he just kinda says "Normally being thawed destroys the body's cells, but for some mysterious reason we don't understand it doesn't happen to zombies v Its the same with the ocean zombies, the book admits that it doesnt make sense but just handwaves it as crazy zombie poo poo.
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Jul 8, 2014 19:04
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I'm glad this thread is helping me reinforce my belief that zombie media is goddamn awful. Like sure, zombies are fine I guess, but when you try to justify it with real life poo poo only to half-rear end it and go "IT'S BECAUSE OF THIS AND THIS and who really knows in the end I guess THAT THE ZOMBIES ARE ABLE TO FUNCTION" it all falls apart immediately.
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Jul 8, 2014 19:21
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It's important to remember that WWZ the book had literally zero reliable information sources, since it was told as a series of interviews. The only things you can take for a certainty are things that every character agrees on: things went to hell, the dead rose, things are maybe getting better. Everything else might be someone lying or just wrong.
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Jul 8, 2014 21:26
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Silly Newbie posted:It's important to remember that WWZ the book had literally zero reliable information sources, since it was told as a series of interviews. The only things you can take for a certainty are things that every character agrees on: things went to hell, the dead rose, things are maybe getting better. Everything else might be someone lying or just wrong. That's a lame excuse though.
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Jul 8, 2014 21:33
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WoodrowSkillson posted:That's a lame excuse though. It's not an excuse. It is the book he wrote. If you want a pseudoscience treatise then read his other book: The Zombie Survival Guide.
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Jul 8, 2014 21:47
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I have read both. Unreliable narrators only make so much sense when the setting is one where literally everyone would have first hand experience with zombies and their behavior would be extremely well known.
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Jul 8, 2014 21:55
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WoodrowSkillson posted:I have read both. Unreliable narrators only make so much sense when the setting is one where literally everyone would have first hand experience with zombies and their behavior would be extremely well known. Sure, their behavior is known. The eat dudes and fall down if you gently caress up the CNS. What's not well known, wouldn't be known to the average person, and likely can't be known due to the breakdown of society, are the specifics about what makes a zombie zomb, chemically and physiologically. When people encounter something about which little is known, or they aren't prepared emotionally or educationally to comprehend what's known, they make poo poo up that sounds good and makes them feel better, like in the whole vaccines autism thing. I thought it worked pretty well in the book.
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Jul 8, 2014 22:08
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The interviewer sees a frozen zombie for himself so it's not an unreliable thing. I really wish the weirder stuff got into the movie, like every boat in the world floating in ocean communities, or the guy watching from the international space station.
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Jul 9, 2014 08:18
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