|
I tried my first kinda stealthy run with Illegalcarrot yesterday and hosed that up something bad Is it worth buying a second locomotive to silence and max out for concealment? Currently I'm using a silenced 553 and a silenced gruber kurz but I usually just play masterforcer and run with a saw/LMG/heavy rifle primary and locomotive secondary
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 19:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 09:54 |
|
|
Yes, I keep a loud and a silenced locomotive. A silenced, stealth-kitted locomotive is one of the most effective weapons in stealth.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 19:21
|
|
|
Widestancer posted:I tried my first kinda stealthy run with Illegalcarrot yesterday and hosed that up something bad At this point in the game's life, you should be building towards have 3 car-4's (Loud, concealable loud, silenced and concealable), 3-4 loco's (Similar to the Car-4's, and more loud versions depending on if you want a shotgun for a few of the special ammo types). And this is all mod (and thus to a certain point RNG) dependent! Welcome to Payday 2.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 19:22
|
|
|
I have THREE locos - one that's silenced, one that's max killy, and one that has max conceal for half-stealth runs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 19:22
|
|
|
Great Beer posted:Now that we have the Thanatos the safe house mission would actually be pretty easy without turrets. So it's one moment of glory is gone forever.  AndroidHub posted:I know the thread likes to poo-poo Jokering, but compare it to sentries, it does nearly the same thing (just better really), but it takes a max of 16 points invested, your "sentries" are mobile, they don't run out of ammo, and they don't take up your equipment slot. I think Joker is a pretty balanced skill when it comes down to it, so what if they took out the T5/6 skills for sentries and replaced them with something else, and wrapped all of the bonuses that were there before into the ace of the basic sentry, with the T4 basic upgrade giving it the second placable sentry, and the T4 ace giving them ammo regen and letting you pick them back up (maybe they would have a short period of inactivity after running out of ammo where they couldn't fire and you couldn't pick them back up.) I do think the two things that would instantly help Sentries and clear out some of the skill bloat are: 1) Nail down whether they're semi-permanent area denial or disposable fire support (if the latter, make it three mini-Sentries instead of two medium ones). 2) Remove one of their two unnecessary resource pools. Either give them infinite health or infinite ammo, and then for the semi-permanent area denial type add in an additional time cost to their continued operation. I've previously said before that turning them into Combine turret rip-offs would be workable - infinite health, but cops can knock them over to shut them off; once knocked down you have to go pick them back up. Alternatively, a more simple "overheat" effect where taking too much damage requires them to be reset. For unlimited ammo, the same basic idea applies - fire too many bullets and the sentry needs to be reloaded through a somewhat lengthy interaction. All of these have an advantage of maintaining shields as a legitimate weakness, but with far less frustration of having the sentry completely nullified by them. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Jul 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 19:24
|
|
|
John Murdoch posted:The Thanatos is a stupid gun and is also paid DLC. Thems fighting words.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 20:08
|
|
|
Stealth Loco is wonderful, like all Locos, you just have to be aware that when you shoot people they will loving fly and you should plan for that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 20:19
|
|
|
How long ago did Goldfarb talking about overhauling the skill trees, four/five months?
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 20:43
|
|
|
Carecat posted:How long ago did Goldfarb talking about overhauling the skill trees, four/five months? Yes, four or five months before he left Overkill. I wouldn't get your hopes up.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 20:48
|
|
|
Just had an interesting bug on Trustee bank. I joined Chaos, Mender, and Jerik after they'd already stealthed it and were waiting on the drill. Chaos brought a saw, however on my screen, I saw him opening deposit boxes by double tapping each box with his pistol. Unfortunately the screenshot I took didn't come out, but it was a new one to me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 20:55
|
|
|
Has anyone had any luck getting Autohotkey scripts to work in Payday 2? I've been trying to make a saw fast-doubleclick bind but either the "click 2" command is too fast to register or there's some anti-cheat stuff at work, and I literally just downloaded AHK an hour ago so I'm a total scrub at the scripting process.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 21:13
|
|
|
AndroidHub posted:I know the thread likes to poo-poo Jokering, but compare it to sentries, it does nearly the same thing (just better really), but it takes a max of 16 points invested, your "sentries" are mobile, they don't run out of ammo, and they don't take up your equipment slot. I think Joker is a pretty balanced skill when it comes down to it, so what if they took out the T5/6 skills for sentries and replaced them with something else, and wrapped all of the bonuses that were there before into the ace of the basic sentry, with the T4 basic upgrade giving it the second placable sentry, and the T4 ace giving them ammo regen and letting you pick them back up (maybe they would have a short period of inactivity after running out of ammo where they couldn't fire and you couldn't pick them back up.) Anyone know what the values for Sentries are for threat? Because it'd be an interesting shift if they made Sentries have some massively absurd threat level allowing you to use them to give covering fire that forces enemies to dive for cover. Also something to deal with shields, give them an upgrade that punches through shields. Also a way to give them more ammo would be great. Maybe give players who have Sentries a third ammo pool so they can run around and pick up ammo and then refill the sentry by holding F on it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 21:33
|
|
|
Psion posted:also elevator escape has some real advantages - now that I've used it I'm not convinced Bus Stop is ALWAYS the best option. It is an extremely good one, but if you're bringing a saw and are going to end up making multiple trips for loot, the ability to just chuck bags down the elevator and leave them 100% inaccessible to cops is great. Cops only rope down there once you do so it's pretty simple to just toss half your bags during a break between assault waves, go back to the vault and hole up again, then move the other half once you finish the wave. Easier than the fighting retreat through the bus, arguably. Bus is undeniably superior if the vault spawns right next to it, otherwise it's easier to fight to the elevator with the rear vault instead of up the stairs to the bus stop. I don't think there's a way to know exactly where the vault is until you make it to the bank interior. Both are fun though, which is more than I can say about roof or C4 escape.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 21:43
|
|
|
UnknownMercenary posted:Bus is undeniably superior if the vault spawns right next to it, otherwise it's easier to fight to the elevator with the rear vault instead of up the stairs to the bus stop. I don't think there's a way to know exactly where the vault is until you make it to the bank interior. Both are fun though, which is more than I can say about roof or C4 escape. Bus should let you burst into the vault area from the start with the drill and gently caress all that stealth and crane nonsense.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 21:49
|
|
|
Mo_Steel posted:Anyone know what the values for Sentries are for threat? Because it'd be an interesting shift if they made Sentries have some massively absurd threat level allowing you to use them to give covering fire that forces enemies to dive for cover. Also something to deal with shields, give them an upgrade that punches through shields. Also a way to give them more ammo would be great. Maybe give players who have Sentries a third ammo pool so they can run around and pick up ammo and then refill the sentry by holding F on it. A better option might be if you could pick them up (or were required to) to reload them - having a sentry be a one shot item really limits their utility.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 21:53
|
|
|
It'd be neat if, on some interior maps with staircase spawns that are blocked by invisible walls, you could interact with those spots to deploy the sentry "in" it and thus shut down that spawn point.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 21:55
|
|
|
Widestancer posted:I tried my first kinda stealthy run with Illegalcarrot yesterday and hosed that up something bad Eh, I think a silenced primary with a gruber kurz is pretty ideal for stealth. I don't even silence my kurz. The most important thing for stealth is getting your detection down to 3, or as absolutely close as you can given your mods. It gives you so much more reaction time and wiggle room for doing stealth. Going from 18-20 detection to 3 really opened up the ability to just walk right by guards, or dance around the room without them avoiding me so I can stealth without even having to kill guards, as opposed to taking out 4 and then hoping there aren't any more, or that the 5th doesn't see you or that the map doesn't call in more guards. Can you fit a silenced primary and silenced loco and still get concealment high enough to get 3 detection? If so go for it, but I feel like that's not gonna happen, even with ghost skills. So at that point you're either taking a silenced loco and a sawed-off mosconi, or you're taking a silenced primary and a gruber kurz. Stealth kills are all one-shots unless you're seen first, so the only real purpose of a silenced loco is to launch corpses, which is entirely unnecessary unless you're doing something weird like Big Oil stealth. Shooting Blanks posted:A better option might be if you could pick them up (or were required to) to reload them - having a sentry be a one shot item really limits their utility. If you could move and reload them, then they might actually be useful, yeah 
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 22:01
|
|
|
UnknownMercenary posted:Bus is undeniably superior if the vault spawns right next to it, otherwise it's easier to fight to the elevator with the rear vault instead of up the stairs to the bus stop. I don't think there's a way to know exactly where the vault is until you make it to the bank interior. Both are fun though, which is more than I can say about roof or C4 escape. Yeah, that's the thing though - I totally agree with you on that one spawn, but that leaves three of the four potential vault spawns are (arguably) equally good or better with elevator escape. Just playing the odds it feels like elevator is more likely to be almost as good or better. basically I think it's kind of more balanced than I'd originally assumed. Elevator is better for between-waves drops of part of your loot at a time. Bus is way better for a coordinated retreat under fire no matter the assault status once you have all the bags in the office room with the phone. I still haven't done c4 tunneling but any escape that involves infinite snipers is by definition harder than elevator or bus, so... Psion fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jul 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 22:02
|
|
|
Widestancer posted:I tried my first kinda stealthy run with Illegalcarrot yesterday and hosed that up something bad Yeah, I have an actual silenced pistol that I use for stealth, but if I don't think the stealth run is going to go well or I just want to thumb my nose at someone insisting on a stealth run, I'll bring a silenced loco instead. With Enforcer perks you can keep it at like 67 damage, which isn't enough to pop helmets as easily as I'd like, but is still very respectable. You can even install stuff like explosive or flechette rounds in your stealth loco to increase its effective range and it won't cause any extra noise. The big thing to remember for silenced locos is that the shotgun kickback to corpses still applies, though - so it's actually very possible to launch a guard off a roof or out of bounds, where you cannot answer his pager. That is...embarrassing, when it happens.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 22:06
|
|
|
I think you mean "utterly hilarious," though not QUITE as funny as firing a loud loco directly into the camera laptop on FF Day 3. never forget.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 22:08
|
|
|
^^ I still prefer the "trying to turn on my laser pointer, oops, nope, let's throw a grenade three seconds in" routine, myself.Great Beer posted:Bus should let you burst into the vault area from the start with the drill and gently caress all that stealth and crane nonsense. If we're going this route, we should be able to leave in the van we showed up in on Framing Frames Day 2. This is, however, the Ethereal Plane of Cops where nothing makes sense. cheezit fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jul 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 22:11
|
|
|
Psion posted:I think you mean "utterly hilarious," though not QUITE as funny as firing a loud loco directly into the camera laptop on FF Day 3. Or like I did last night, throw a grenade into the laptop first thing
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 22:20
|
|
|
Psion posted:I think you mean "utterly hilarious," though not QUITE as funny as firing a loud loco directly into the camera laptop on FF Day 3. cheezit posted:^^ I still prefer the "trying to turn on my laser pointer, oops, nope, let's throw a grenade three seconds in" routine, myself. I've always been a fan of "have the entire bank locked down, waiting for drill, switch weapons idly in boredom and WHOOPS I THREW A GRENADE AT ALL THE HOSTAGES." The penalty messages kept coming for like half a minute... 
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 22:22
|
|
|
Psion posted:Yeah, that's the thing though - I totally agree with you on that one spawn, but that leaves three of the four potential vault spawns are (arguably) equally good or better with elevator escape. Just playing the odds it feels like elevator is more likely to be almost as good or better. Counterpoint: driving a bus into a loving bank is maximum  But yeah it's really a toss up between the two. I think C4 escape would be fine if the sniper spawn rate wasn't so high in it and/or you could move more than one bag at a time to the loot drop off.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 22:23
|
|
|
Psion posted:I still haven't done c4 tunneling but any escape that involves infinite snipers is by definition harder than elevator or bus, so... I've only done C4 tunneling because some dope invariably ends up not picking another option even after we ask them to, and it keeps defaulting to it if there isn't a unanimous choice. It sucks a whole lot and takes too long. I wouldn't recommend it. Basically I should really start kicking people who won't even bother opening preplanning because 'it costs mooooney waaahhhh'.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 22:29
|
|
|
ishikabibble posted:I've always been a fan of "have the entire bank locked down, waiting for drill, switch weapons idly in boredom and WHOOPS I THREW A GRENADE AT ALL THE HOSTAGES." I've done that on nightclub. It was the first time I "accidentally stealthed" that mission...
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 22:29
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Eh, I think a silenced primary with a gruber kurz is pretty ideal for stealth. I don't even silence my kurz. A few things. Silenced gruber kurz is probably the best stealth pistol at overkill and below, on DW (just like everything else), and Shadow Raid, you have to bring something a little beefier, due to the guards (or murkywater guards in the case of Shadow Raid) having more health so you can't reliably one shot them. The Loco gets up to 29 concealabiltiy with the right mods, so you can very easily get to 3 concealment with a concealed primary. The magic number for 3 concealment is 94. If someone wants to check that math, I got it with the following: Suit (35) + Car-4 (31) + Deagle (23) + Ghost Tier Four Bonus (5). Changing the Deagle to a Chimano Custom (22 concealment), brought me up to 4 detection rating. For most quiet maps you don't really need two silenced weapons, although for most people the silenced primary is also their most concealable weapon.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 22:31
|
|
|
Drewjitsu posted:A few things. Silenced gruber kurz is probably the best stealth pistol at overkill and below, on DW (just like everything else), and Shadow Raid, you have to bring something a little beefier, due to the guards (or murkywater guards in the case of Shadow Raid) having more health so you can't reliably one shot them. Yeah, that's why I like to take silenced primary and just unload on shadow raid guards. I forgot the loco is pretty much a sawed off when you first get it, I have mine all kit up to be a second primary for going loud. I guess I should get a silenced loco now for fun, I was just worried about the silencer adding too much to concealment, but if you can fit 29 that's not a problem, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 22:35
|
|
|
UnknownMercenary posted:Counterpoint: driving a bus into a loving bank is maximum oh definitely agreed, bus stop still wins out on that alone for sure
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 23:11
|
|
|
Haha, whoooooops. This entire time I've been running my Ghostnician build without the headshot bonus. I hosed up because I was using an Infamied-out PD2 skills template and forgot to compensate. This hasn't actually affected anything until recently because all of my weapons with the exception of the CAR-4 are over 50 damage anyway. Because of that, I might not even bother keeping it and just stick with other stuff. The "oh poo poo all of the aggro" problem I've been having with the Falcon has also shown itself on the CAR-4. It seems to be very hard to keep "stealthy" on large, spread-out maps where everyone is running around on their own. If I was able to synchronize with an Enforcer and pair up consistently, I probably wouldn't be having so many problems. I also need to try dropping one armor down from the Flak Jacket to see if sacrificing more armor for more substantial dodge would help.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 23:21
|
|
|
John Murdoch posted:Haha, whoooooops. This entire time I've been running my Ghostnician build without the headshot bonus. I hosed up because I was using an Infamied-out PD2 skills template and forgot to compensate. This hasn't actually affected anything until recently because all of my weapons with the exception of the CAR-4 are over 50 damage anyway. Because of that, I might not even bother keeping it and just stick with other stuff. How did you manage to only put 18 points into a Ghostnician? Also, regarding armorchat, see if this makes any sense to you: http://www.reddit.com/r/paydaytheheist/comments/2851x6/quick_analysis_of_armor_vs_dodge_mobility_and/
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 23:34
|
|
|
Drewjitsu posted:How did you manage to only put 18 points into a Ghostnician? Unlock (1) + Basic Nerves of Steel (1) + Aced Rifleman, Aced Sharpshooter, both main Aced Drill Skills (4 x 4). Also thanks for the link, I was planning on looking that up myself sooner or later. Looks like Ballistic Vest is the way to go by the raw numbers. I also have to train myself to sprint for free dodge more often. Really wish Ghost got fire while sprinting, in that case... John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jul 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 23:53
|
|
|
John Murdoch posted:Unlock (1) + Basic Nerves of Steel (1) + Aced Rifleman, Aced Sharpshooter, both main Aced Drill Skills (4 x 4). I thought you were doing something like this: http://goo.gl/AY4g9A
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 00:36
|
|
|
How do people have their Izhmas and ak 7.62s kitted out? Most of what I've seen for 7.62s is 60 damage and 0 accuracy, which feels like it would kind of suck on tans. I want to be able to hit things from a decent range.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 00:37
|
|
|
Drewjitsu posted:I thought you were doing something like this: http://goo.gl/wUKyoe This is the current one. I don't actually have Technician Infamy (yet). If I did, I would go ahead and refit everything to take silent drilling. The only big change I'm considering making now is dropping Inside Man entirely so that I can fill out my comfort picks from Enforcer (Stun Resistance + Tough Guy). I know a fair number of Mastermind goons that already have it, and the only thing it really fundamentally changes is that it makes stealthing Big Bank marginally easier. I also just realized that the lack of the headshot bonus is also probably why I've been having weird issues getting rid of shields in one shot without marking them first. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Jul 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 00:42
|
|
|
22 Eargesplitten posted:How do people have their Izhmas and ak 7.62s kitted out? Most of what I've seen for 7.62s is 60 damage and 0 accuracy, which feels like it would kind of suck on tans. I want to be able to hit things from a decent range. If you don't mind locking it to Full Auto, the IZHMA build I used to run was Shark Teeth, Full Auto, Tactical Russian Rail, Military Laser, Wood Grip, Speculator Sight and War-Torn Stock. Right now I have it with 000 Buck, Single Shot and Wide Stock but everything else remains the same. I miss the bonus ammo pickups from Aced Fully Loaded but the post-patch the drops aren't too bad as long as I remain very aggressive. For my wooden AK 7.62 I have a Firebreather, Railed Wooden Grip, Military Laser, Wood Grip, Speculator Sight and War-Torn Stock. With the Enforcer bonus I reach 50 damage, but without it you'd need the Slavic Dragon Barrel and a Competitor's Compensator, or a Funnel of Fun by itself, to hit 50.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 00:50
|
|
|
John Murdoch posted:http://goo.gl/wUKyoe This is the current one. I don't actually have Technician Infamy (yet). If I did, I would go ahead and refit everything to take silent drilling. I always thought that aced rifleman was more of a liability (you zoom in too much!) than a bonus, what is your experience with it?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 01:41
|
|
|
Drewjitsu posted:The Loco gets up to 29 concealabiltiy with the right mods, so you can very easily get to 3 concealment with a concealed primary. The magic number for 3 concealment is 94. If someone wants to check that math, I got it with the following: Suit (35) + Car-4 (31) + Deagle (23) + Ghost Tier Four Bonus (5). Changing the Deagle to a Chimano Custom (22 concealment), brought me up to 4 detection rating. I'm going to keep sharing this graph with the group: 
maswastaken fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Jul 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 01:48
|
|
|
Drewjitsu posted:I always thought that aced rifleman was more of a liability (you zoom in too much!) than a bonus, what is your experience with it? I've never had a significant issue with it, with the only exception maybe being the ACOG scope on the M308, though that could've been a combination of the recoil pattern and a crappy reticule on the scope (speaking of, I should try out the M308 with this build). Anything that's at mid-range I can just hip-fire with a laser thanks to incredible levels of accuracy and stability, or just switch to my secondary, if for some reason I can't quick-scope pop something. But my playstyle has always been focused on long range precision. I absolutely get use out of the extra zoom when I want to pick off problem targets; snipers or just huddled green SWAT beyond normal engagement range.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 01:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 09:54 |
|
|
AndroidHub posted:I know the thread likes to poo-poo Jokering, but compare it to sentries, it does nearly the same thing (just better really), but it takes a max of 16 points invested, your "sentries" are mobile, they don't run out of ammo, and they don't take up your equipment slot. I think Joker is a pretty balanced skill when it comes down to it, so what if they took out the T5/6 skills for sentries and replaced them with something else, and wrapped all of the bonuses that were there before into the ace of the basic sentry, with the T4 basic upgrade giving it the second placable sentry, and the T4 ace giving them ammo regen and letting you pick them back up (maybe they would have a short period of inactivity after running out of ammo where they couldn't fire and you couldn't pick them back up.) There wasn't huge skill-snobbery until goons started to do more Death Wish stuff. In that case, you had to be very careful about what you took. Everyone needed base useful skills, survival skills, weapon-enhancing skills, then special roles (Inspire, C4, saw, full ECMs, etc.). This was right before the free weekend/steam sale, when a lot of new players joined and less DW was being done. A lot of skill snobbery is still left over from that. Essentially, if you're doing a fair share of killing, stealthing, and objectives, I and most goons don't care what you take for Overkill and below. Joker's very useful to spread out enemy fire or keep other spawns busy. I like Joker on loud missions, but I never take it, myself. It's quite helpful if a bunch of cops are rushing in and at least some of them are focused on a Jokered tan next to me. I only get a little impatient if we're starting to wipe because three guys are just trying to shout down cops while we're getting swarmed. Turrets are just bad because, like John said, it's 40 points to make them somewhat useful, then they could just end up being a waste as they dump rounds into a shield as other cops swarmed by. They were much more useful in the first game due to a lower variety of cops, and less shield spawns. McSpanky posted:Has anyone had any luck getting Autohotkey scripts to work in Payday 2? I've been trying to make a saw fast-doubleclick bind but either the "click 2" command is too fast to register or there's some anti-cheat stuff at work, and I literally just downloaded AHK an hour ago so I'm a total scrub at the scripting process. Someone way back figured out how to get AHK to deliver less saw time per click, which gave a decent increase in saw efficiency (since you weren't doing any more than necessary), if that helps at all.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 02:06
|
|
