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Shadow Ninja 64
May 21, 2007

"I stood there, wondering why the puck was getting bigger...

and then it hit me."


Dunban posted:

I actually found them to be the easiest enemies in the game. Five hits or so with a full-size Hammer should be enough to kill them.

As you said, they always show up in pairs, so you need to make sure you're never in between them. Then it's just a matter of watching their attack animations to get a feeling for when you can attack.

Actually, if they're close enough together, being between the turtles is the best place, because you can bait both of them to stomp, Unite Guts to block, then tip both over with Cyclones and maybe a multi Unite Morph or two since you can hit them with anything when they're teetering on two legs. Once you have Unite Bomb, it becomes pretty trivial to toss a big bomb to slow them, then charge up the Hammer and do a couple Hammer Cyclones, rinse and repeat, but early on you have to work for it a bit more.

Edit: Some of this was already mentioned but I guess I'll leave it anyway.

Also, this is unrelated to the current discussion, but this game is super amazing. Just wanted to say that.

Shadow Ninja 64 fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Jan 24, 2014

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MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

He's been tapping into Aunt May's bank account!
Didn't I kill him with a HELICOPTER?
Just reached the first rival battle and :allears: this game is something else.

Level Slide
Jan 4, 2011

Just finished this beautiful game. I enjoyed it immensely, especially the very final twist: that you, the player, are not part of the Wonderful 101. That honor belongs to Luka.

NuclearWinterUK
Jan 13, 2007

Yes, I am very well
I know this thread is dead but I downloaded the demo recently and I'm really digging it, enough that I plan to get the full game. I have a mechanic related question though and I'd be grateful if anyone could help.

I've been practicing comboing from one unite morph to another and I can't for the life of me combo from Unite Gun into another morph the way I can between others. What I mean is that if I'm using the sword and draw a circle, then hit B,A, it will switch to fist and do the rising attack at the same time. But if I'm using the gun, draw a line and then hit B,A, it will just switch to the sword but not execute an attack. I can combo back and forth between sword and fist doing rising attacks without problem, I can also combo from sword or fist into a gun rising attack. I just can't seem to combo from gun into another weapon's move.

Is this intended or am I just missing something/sucking?

Shadow Ninja 64
May 21, 2007

"I stood there, wondering why the puck was getting bigger...

and then it hit me."


If I'm remembering right, you can only do something like immediately morphing from one unite into another's special move if the first unite morph has the special unlocked. For instance, if you have Wonderful Rising unlocked for Unite Hand, you should be able to do the switch from Unite Hand into Unite Gun's Wonderful Rising, even if you don't have WR for the Gun yet. However, you couldn't do it the other way around until you got Wonderful Rising for the Gun.

NuclearWinterUK
Jan 13, 2007

Yes, I am very well

Shadow Ninja 64 posted:

If I'm remembering right, you can only do something like immediately morphing from one unite into another's special move if the first unite morph has the special unlocked. For instance, if you have Wonderful Rising unlocked for Unite Hand, you should be able to do the switch from Unite Hand into Unite Gun's Wonderful Rising, even if you don't have WR for the Gun yet. However, you couldn't do it the other way around until you got Wonderful Rising for the Gun.

The demo has Wonderful Rising unlocked for all three of Gun, Sword and Fist so unfortunately that isn't it :(

I'm not sure if it's some limitation of the demo, or if the button presses require different timing or something when comboing out of gun. It's weird.

Shadow Ninja 64
May 21, 2007

"I stood there, wondering why the puck was getting bigger...

and then it hit me."


Elenkis posted:

The demo has Wonderful Rising unlocked for all three of Gun, Sword and Fist so unfortunately that isn't it :(

I'm not sure if it's some limitation of the demo, or if the button presses require different timing or something when comboing out of gun. It's weird.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure the timing isn't any different in the actual game, so that's kinda weird that it's not working for you in the demo. The only other thing I can think of is that maybe you don't have enough members left to form the new morph thanks to firing most of them away as ammo first, but if you're trying it without having fired any members off first then I'm stumped.

Edit: I popped my game back into my WiiU and tried some stuff out, and it seems like you really can't go out of the gun straight into specials in the other weapons. I'm having no issues with any of the other unites going directly into another unite's special move, so I have to think it's intended.

Shadow Ninja 64 fucked around with this message at 02:26 on May 17, 2014

NuclearWinterUK
Jan 13, 2007

Yes, I am very well

Shadow Ninja 64 posted:

Edit: I popped my game back into my WiiU and tried some stuff out, and it seems like you really can't go out of the gun straight into specials in the other weapons. I'm having no issues with any of the other unites going directly into another unite's special move, so I have to think it's intended.

Thanks for checking this out for me, much appreciated! Glad it wasn't down to me doing something wrong.

NuclearWinterUK fucked around with this message at 23:39 on May 18, 2014

SurrealityCheck
Sep 15, 2012
Interview with Saur Dash up on the Platinum Games blog has a bunch of stuff about W101 and general broness - check it out!

http://platinumgames.com/2014/05/19/interview-with-saurian-dash-part-1/

Lord Justice
Jul 24, 2012

"This god whom I created was human-made and madness, like all gods! Woman she was, and only a poor specimen of woman and ego. But I overcame myself, the sufferer; I carried my own ashes to the mountains; I invented a brighter flame for myself. And behold, then this god fled from me!"
So I just picked this game out after getting a Wii U today. I really like Platinum and Kamiya's work especially, so of course I picked up Wonderful 101. After about 3 hours however, I'm still struggling with the controls and dying repeatedly on the first real level (I should note I don't have the dodge or block moves, as I didn't realize they needed to be bought. I don't know why Platinum keeps hiding these moves in the store, but I guess I should have seen it coming after MGR). I've never had this much difficulty with a Platinum game before, I've played God Hand (yes, I know God Hand is Clover and Clover isn't exactly Platinum) right up to Metal Gear Rising. I watched Saur's System Breakdown video, and realized that the game essentially wants fighter game inputs.

So, I don't play fighting games, I never could get the hang of playing them. Something about stick movements completely causes me no end of trouble. Here, I can't even get the sword movement right half the time, never mind the hand. Either I draw the line too short, too long, or crooked. I guess my question is, is there any way to train my thumb to draw the movements, or something like that? I'm not really sure what to do beyond repetition and that doesn't seem to be getting me anywhere but frustrated.

Golden Goat
Aug 2, 2012

So I assume you're using the right stick for drawing and not the stylus for it? The stylus is terrible for this game.

I don't play fighting games either but I've gotten the hang of drawing it just takes a little practice. For the sword just hold whatever direction you want without moving it for as long as you want. It's one of the simpler things to draw. For a fist spin the right stick around slowly. After a while you'll get used to it but you do have to spend a little time practicing them in and out of battle.

Please buy the dodge and block commands immediately and save all the mix items until you have 30 of each for the highest item to produce which will allow you to buy a item for free from the shop.

DLC Inc
Jun 1, 2011

Lord Justice posted:

So I just picked this game out after getting a Wii U today. I really like Platinum and Kamiya's work especially, so of course I picked up Wonderful 101. After about 3 hours however, I'm still struggling with the controls and dying repeatedly on the first real level (I should note I don't have the dodge or block moves, as I didn't realize they needed to be bought. I don't know why Platinum keeps hiding these moves in the store, but I guess I should have seen it coming after MGR). I've never had this much difficulty with a Platinum game before, I've played God Hand (yes, I know God Hand is Clover and Clover isn't exactly Platinum) right up to Metal Gear Rising. I watched Saur's System Breakdown video, and realized that the game essentially wants fighter game inputs.

So, I don't play fighting games, I never could get the hang of playing them. Something about stick movements completely causes me no end of trouble. Here, I can't even get the sword movement right half the time, never mind the hand. Either I draw the line too short, too long, or crooked. I guess my question is, is there any way to train my thumb to draw the movements, or something like that? I'm not really sure what to do beyond repetition and that doesn't seem to be getting me anywhere but frustrated.

I'd put the difficulty on Easy for a bit if I were you. "Normal" for this game is still soul-crushing the first time playing when you're getting the hang of everything; Easy is more like Normal-mode. I also second "get the Blocking Jello and Spring Dodge, and get used to the Stick for drawing. Stylus works ok but I've found using the Stick works faster.

Golden Goat
Aug 2, 2012

MinibarMatchman posted:

I'd put the difficulty on Easy for a bit if I were you. "Normal" for this game is still soul-crushing the first time playing when you're getting the hang of everything; Easy is more like Normal-mode. I also second "get the Blocking Jello and Spring Dodge, and get used to the Stick for drawing. Stylus works ok but I've found using the Stick works faster.

That's a good point actually, It's probably best to treat this game similarly to MGSR. If you've played Bayonetta or MGSR on hard then keep going with normal. Otherwise switch to Easy for a more fun and less annoying experience.

Also if you haven't read it yet check out Platinum's interview with Saur here. There's little tidbits of info that I didn't know (Unite Gun is so drat useful).

Lord Justice
Jul 24, 2012

"This god whom I created was human-made and madness, like all gods! Woman she was, and only a poor specimen of woman and ego. But I overcame myself, the sufferer; I carried my own ashes to the mountains; I invented a brighter flame for myself. And behold, then this god fled from me!"
Going down to easy sounds like a good idea, honestly. I can play MGR on hard easily, but I feel MGR is a lot less demanding than this game, at least in terms of personal skill. I find it a lot easier to press one button at a certain time than doing stick movements, for whatever reason. I am using the stick, or trying to, and not the touchscreen, after I watched Saur's breakdown video. It's just I'm no good with stick movements for whatever reason. Playing on easy will probably help, I'm honestly getting pretty overwhelmed trying to practice stick movement, figuring out the rest of the controls (I don't know what it is about either the controller or the game, but I'm constantly pressing the wrong buttons for things) and learning how the game works in general. Thanks for the help.

Edit: Just remembered another problem I'm having. I'm having a hell of a time actually telling if I'm successful with my stick movements or not. Often times the line is blocked by enemies and I can't really see if it's blue or black. If I am successful with it, often times I can't even tell because the separate morph is just mixed in with the rest of the mess happening on screen. I don't suppose there's a way of dealing with this other than bashing my head against the game until I get used to it?

Lord Justice fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Jun 5, 2014

MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

He's been tapping into Aunt May's bank account!
Didn't I kill him with a HELICOPTER?
I practiced the demo several times and played the game in about three or four events before I finally got it and played all the way through Normal.
I kept having the issues you got about halfway through, and finished the game almost exclusively with consolation prizes after one point.

Just keep trying and rely on your sword the most. It's a really good weapon and you just gotta hold a stick forward for a few seconds. There's also an item you can buy that lets you make your Unites bigger, so instead of making a huge sword line you can make a small one and hold A to make it big, that will probably help a lot.

How far in are you?

Lord Justice
Jul 24, 2012

"This god whom I created was human-made and madness, like all gods! Woman she was, and only a poor specimen of woman and ego. But I overcame myself, the sufferer; I carried my own ashes to the mountains; I invented a brighter flame for myself. And behold, then this god fled from me!"

ArmyOfMidgets posted:

I practiced the demo several times and played the game in about three or four events before I finally got it and played all the way through Normal.
I kept having the issues you got about halfway through, and finished the game almost exclusively with consolation prizes after one point.

Just keep trying and rely on your sword the most. It's a really good weapon and you just gotta hold a stick forward for a few seconds. There's also an item you can buy that lets you make your Unites bigger, so instead of making a huge sword line you can make a small one and hold A to make it big, that will probably help a lot.

How far in are you?

I just completed the second operation, after fighting the boss in the baseball stadium. I do use the sword primarily, while mostly ignoring the fist. Most of my trouble stems not so much from getting the weapon out (although switching from sword to anything else is a hassle still, especially fist), but creating morphs which attack on their own. Half the time I get a sword, half the time I don't. I will say the game becomes a lot more manageable once you get the block and dodge moves, however, and I had a lot easier time once I had them. I don't use the bigger versions of the weapons, mostly because I don't really know what situations I should be using them in, and the longer I'm drawing the higher the failure rate for me screwing up the stick movements is.

Also, how do you keep track of enemies? I keep missing the small guys and end up having to run around and look for them. As well, a lot of my attacks fall short of hitting them, is there some sort of approach technique? I know there is because I do it by accident sometimes, but I don't know what I'm doing to trigger it.

Wild Knight
Mar 27, 2010

Foul villain! I do not flee. I will never turn my back on you and run away!

[he says, running away]

Lord Justice posted:

I just completed the second operation, after fighting the boss in the baseball stadium. I do use the sword primarily, while mostly ignoring the fist. Most of my trouble stems not so much from getting the weapon out (although switching from sword to anything else is a hassle still, especially fist), but creating morphs which attack on their own. Half the time I get a sword, half the time I don't. I will say the game becomes a lot more manageable once you get the block and dodge moves, however, and I had a lot easier time once I had them. I don't use the bigger versions of the weapons, mostly because I don't really know what situations I should be using them in, and the longer I'm drawing the higher the failure rate for me screwing up the stick movements is.

Also, how do you keep track of enemies? I keep missing the small guys and end up having to run around and look for them. As well, a lot of my attacks fall short of hitting them, is there some sort of approach technique? I know there is because I do it by accident sometimes, but I don't know what I'm doing to trigger it.

For drawing morphs, it really helps to start drawing away from the enemy, so you can see what shape you're making.

For the smaller enemies, hit X to do the Team Attack - anyone the team hits gets a reticle around them for something like five seconds, and when you attack with a morph you'll fly right up to them. Spamming the Team Attack all around when you can't find the last small dude seems to work for tracking them down.

Other than that, just keep practicing, and there's no shame in playing on Easy - W101's Easy mode seems comparable to other games' Normal or even Hard mode. I think the real trick to drawing with the stick is just making sure it's as quick as possible, and getting your thumb to memorize the motions required.

---

so i came in this thread in the first place to say i beat the game, and jesus christ, nothing is ever going to top how this game ends. i feel like i can't even use the shift key because i need to bring down the awesomeness from stratospheric levels. this game loving rules.

but man is it hard.

i cannot loving wait for chip's lp of this

Wild Knight fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jun 5, 2014

BottledBodhisvata
Jul 26, 2013

by Lowtax
I need an LP of this game just so I can find out how to rescue the Wonderful One on the burning building in level 1.

Looper
Mar 1, 2012

BottledBodhisvata posted:

I need an LP of this game just so I can find out how to rescue the Wonderful One on the burning building in level 1.

You're completely immune to fire as long as Wonder Fist is out.

But yeah echoing everyone else in that this game's difficulty curve is really steep. But you'll get better! I died on the first mission and felt kinda lousy and then proceeded to get mostly bronzes and consolation prizes on Normal, but going through the game again on Hard got me mostly golds and platinums.

Darke GBF
Dec 30, 2006

The cold never bothered me anyway~
Unpopular opinion time! This game was drat lucky to get as high as 78 on Metacritic. I think it's a solid 6-6.5, at least what I've seen, and it is definitely not for everyone (or even every action game fan, for that matter).

I just finished operation 6. This game has some interesting ideas, but they're buried under some really annoying mechanics and the badass setpieces just don't overcome the lows for me. Unite Guts is so inconsistent it's almost never worth using (Does it block only blunt attacks? Are gunshots considered blunt? How about Vorkken's tombstone? Turtle head bashes? NOBODY KNOWS! The game doesn't tell you!). I'd be fine with switching to the dodge full time, but it depletes a fair amount of unite gauge, and when you're out you get to attack a bunch to get back to a reasonable level - with lovely attacks because you can't actually use a strong unite morph - or you can wait. A long time. The Vorkken fights are just plain unfun, because his powers are just "much better version of everything you have, and infinite energy to use them and dodge with." Bleh. I concede that I could easily be missing something, since the game really doesn't tell you much about anything.

It's not a terrible game, but it's nowhere near Platinum's usual fare, and the different unite morphs just aren't a proper substitute for button-based combos. To be fair though, I did go into this having played Revengeance recently, so my expectations were really high.

GonSmithe
Apr 25, 2010

Perhaps it's in the nature of television. Just waves in space.

Darke GBF posted:

Unpopular opinion time! This game was drat lucky to get as high as 78 on Metacritic. I think it's a solid 6-6.5, at least what I've seen, and it is definitely not for everyone (or even every action game fan, for that matter).

I just finished operation 6. This game has some interesting ideas, but they're buried under some really annoying mechanics and the badass setpieces just don't overcome the lows for me. Unite Guts is so inconsistent it's almost never worth using (Does it block only blunt attacks? Are gunshots considered blunt? How about Vorkken's tombstone? Turtle head bashes? NOBODY KNOWS! The game doesn't tell you!). I'd be fine with switching to the dodge full time, but it depletes a fair amount of unite gauge, and when you're out you get to attack a bunch to get back to a reasonable level - with lovely attacks because you can't actually use a strong unite morph - or you can wait. A long time. The Vorkken fights are just plain unfun, because his powers are just "much better version of everything you have, and infinite energy to use them and dodge with." Bleh. I concede that I could easily be missing something, since the game really doesn't tell you much about anything.

It's not a terrible game, but it's nowhere near Platinum's usual fare, and the different unite morphs just aren't a proper substitute for button-based combos. To be fair though, I did go into this having played Revengeance recently, so my expectations were really high.

It sounds like you just suck at the game. Every Vorkken fight I did was hard, but nowhere close to unbeatable, and I always had fun fighting him.

The fact you say Unite Guts is useless means you probably have no idea what you're doing.

SurrealityCheck
Sep 15, 2012

Darke GBF posted:

Unpopular opinion time! This game was drat lucky to get as high as 78 on Metacritic. I think it's a solid 6-6.5, at least what I've seen, and it is definitely not for everyone (or even every action game fan, for that matter).

I just finished operation 6. This game has some interesting ideas, but they're buried under some really annoying mechanics and the badass setpieces just don't overcome the lows for me. Unite Guts is so inconsistent it's almost never worth using (Does it block only blunt attacks? Are gunshots considered blunt? How about Vorkken's tombstone? Turtle head bashes? NOBODY KNOWS! The game doesn't tell you!). I'd be fine with switching to the dodge full time, but it depletes a fair amount of unite gauge, and when you're out you get to attack a bunch to get back to a reasonable level - with lovely attacks because you can't actually use a strong unite morph - or you can wait. A long time. The Vorkken fights are just plain unfun, because his powers are just "much better version of everything you have, and infinite energy to use them and dodge with." Bleh. I concede that I could easily be missing something, since the game really doesn't tell you much about anything.

It's not a terrible game, but it's nowhere near Platinum's usual fare, and the different unite morphs just aren't a proper substitute for button-based combos. To be fair though, I did go into this having played Revengeance recently, so my expectations were really high.

Hey dude! Check out these sweet rear end videos that might help tidy up some of that stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdHbPXNJvVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSAbLRnGiWg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNKF4r3kyRI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVE-mN6WYy4

Like many platinum games it doesn't explain a huge amount, but I promise once the system clicks it will make a lot more sense! It is genuinely every bit as good as any other Platinum title, and in some ways it is the evolution of a lot of ideas from Bayonetta.

EDIT: to the dude above - he admits he has no idea what he's doing! I think he knows he's not getting it, he's asking for help :D

Golden Goat
Aug 2, 2012

Darke GBF posted:

Unpopular opinion time! This game was drat lucky to get as high as 78 on Metacritic. I think it's a solid 6-6.5, at least what I've seen, and it is definitely not for everyone (or even every action game fan, for that matter).

I just finished operation 6. This game has some interesting ideas, but they're buried under some really annoying mechanics and the badass setpieces just don't overcome the lows for me. Unite Guts is so inconsistent it's almost never worth using (Does it block only blunt attacks? Are gunshots considered blunt? How about Vorkken's tombstone? Turtle head bashes? NOBODY KNOWS! The game doesn't tell you!). I'd be fine with switching to the dodge full time, but it depletes a fair amount of unite gauge, and when you're out you get to attack a bunch to get back to a reasonable level - with lovely attacks because you can't actually use a strong unite morph - or you can wait. A long time. The Vorkken fights are just plain unfun, because his powers are just "much better version of everything you have, and infinite energy to use them and dodge with." Bleh. I concede that I could easily be missing something, since the game really doesn't tell you much about anything.

It's not a terrible game, but it's nowhere near Platinum's usual fare, and the different unite morphs just aren't a proper substitute for button-based combos. To be fair though, I did go into this having played Revengeance recently, so my expectations were really high.

You're right in a few ways. Though I find the Vorkken fights a lot of fun.

Tell me though:
- What custom blocks have you been using?
- Did you know that your damage increases once your multiplier hits 2.50?
- Did you know that Unite gun gives 0.10 combo multiplier per hit?
- How do you find drawing certain morphs on command?

Darke GBF
Dec 30, 2006

The cold never bothered me anyway~

GonSmithe posted:

It sounds like you just suck at the game. Every Vorkken fight I did was hard, but nowhere close to unbeatable, and I always had fun fighting him.

The fact you say Unite Guts is useless means you probably have no idea what you're doing.

I could "just suck" but I handled Dark Souls 2 as a melee character without a shield, so it's not like I suck at dodging or anything. The problem is attacks that it can block are rarely telegraphed (the little tanks that fire blue unblockable lasers and orange reflectable explosive balls are one thing, but Vorkken doesn't telegraph any of his attacks except Tombstone, Fist, and Hammer, though I guess the latter two are the only attacks of his that it actually blocks?).

Golden Goat - when I posted that I had been using Dodge Mine, Unite Charge, and Double Power. After getting Speed Charge and switching it into Dodge Mine's place, I can see why I was having trouble. Double Power was ruining my unite gauge after one or two attacks, and without Speed Charge there was nothing left to dodge with. On operation 8 I managed a gold since I had enough unite gauge to constantly attack with larger morphs, throw out secondary morphs with X, and dodge. Didn't know either of those other things though, and drawing morphs is probably average speed. I draw them with the stick, probably takes me 1-2 seconds for each morph, though hammer isn't as quick as the others, and I only just bought speed liner so I could do it faster with a little practice.

SurrealityCheck - The first video already taught me something new. Comboing into different weapons while the animation for the current attack is playing isn't something I would've even tried. Sure wish I'd known about that for the game before I got to the last level. Maybe I'll replay.

Sockser
Jun 28, 2007

This world only remembers the results!




Darke GBF posted:

I could "just suck" but I handled Dark Souls 2 as a melee character without a shield, so it's not like I suck at dodging or anything. The problem is attacks that it can block are rarely telegraphed (the little tanks that fire blue unblockable lasers and orange reflectable explosive balls are one thing, but Vorkken doesn't telegraph any of his attacks except Tombstone, Fist, and Hammer, though I guess the latter two are the only attacks of his that it actually blocks?).

Lasers can be reflected with Unite Sword

SurrealityCheck
Sep 15, 2012

Darke GBF posted:

I could "just suck" but I handled Dark Souls 2 as a melee character without a shield, so it's not like I suck at dodging or anything. The problem is attacks that it can block are rarely telegraphed (the little tanks that fire blue unblockable lasers and orange reflectable explosive balls are one thing, but Vorkken doesn't telegraph any of his attacks except Tombstone, Fist, and Hammer, though I guess the latter two are the only attacks of his that it actually blocks?).

Golden Goat - when I posted that I had been using Dodge Mine, Unite Charge, and Double Power. After getting Speed Charge and switching it into Dodge Mine's place, I can see why I was having trouble. Double Power was ruining my unite gauge after one or two attacks, and without Speed Charge there was nothing left to dodge with. On operation 8 I managed a gold since I had enough unite gauge to constantly attack with larger morphs, throw out secondary morphs with X, and dodge. Didn't know either of those other things though, and drawing morphs is probably average speed. I draw them with the stick, probably takes me 1-2 seconds for each morph, though hammer isn't as quick as the others, and I only just bought speed liner so I could do it faster with a little practice.

SurrealityCheck - The first video already taught me something new. Comboing into different weapons while the animation for the current attack is playing isn't something I would've even tried. Sure wish I'd known about that for the game before I got to the last level. Maybe I'll replay.

Man the game is so great once you start poking the mechanics! Definitely worth a replay, especially if there's all that new stuff for you to play with.

pichupal
Mar 23, 2013

Poochy ain't Stupid.
I might be.
I always saw Vorkken as a more active battle. While he doesn't telegraph things as well, he tends to respond to your actions a lot more consistently so you can bait him into things by playing with your unite morphs.

Of course, this is coming from someone who played Easy for most of the game (except the last mission because where I had it set to Normal by accident).

Darke GBF
Dec 30, 2006

The cold never bothered me anyway~

SurrealityCheck posted:

Man the game is so great once you start poking the mechanics! Definitely worth a replay, especially if there's all that new stuff for you to play with.

Yeah, just putting what that video said into action a bit on the last level made it much more frenetic and enjoyable. I'll have to watch the other ones.

The ending was pretty good... very tengen toppa.

Darke GBF fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jun 11, 2014

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
Pro-click zone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBVJe1wwTVI

MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

He's been tapping into Aunt May's bank account!
Didn't I kill him with a HELICOPTER?

pichupal posted:

I always saw Vorkken as a more active battle. While he doesn't telegraph things as well, he tends to respond to your actions a lot more consistently so you can bait him into things by playing with your unite morphs.

Of course, this is coming from someone who played Easy for most of the game (except the last mission because where I had it set to Normal by accident).

Yeah, Vorkken fights are tough as poo poo, but it has tiny tells you can abuse or scenarios where you can bait him into something you can counter, plus the small windows to wail on him and retreat. Tough as hell, but when you got something going it feels so satisfying.

Linear Zoetrope
Nov 28, 2011

A hero must cook
I fought Vorkken the first time a day or two ago, and I somehow managed to get him locked in a Unite Spring loop on Normal. I had sword out and I could just keep hitting him right as he entered/exited spring, then he'd spring again... it was pretty cheesy, but before it happened he was kicking my rear end so I'm not complaining.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.

Darke GBF posted:

I just finished operation 6. This game has some interesting ideas, but they're buried under some really annoying mechanics and the badass setpieces just don't overcome the lows for me. Unite Guts is so inconsistent it's almost never worth using (Does it block only blunt attacks? Are gunshots considered blunt? How about Vorkken's tombstone? Turtle head bashes? NOBODY KNOWS! The game doesn't tell you!).

Things Guts does not protect against:
  • Piercing
  • Slicing
  • Biting
  • Shockwaves
  • Energy
  • Really big attacks when you have less than 50 people helping

Basically, anything that could actually get through a roughly equal mass of jello will go through guts. Gunshots are piercing because... well, bullets (contrast cannonballs, which are really big). Turtles bite. Vorkken's tombstone... actually I think that one may be an outlier. I've never tried to Guts it, only ever dodge through the shockwave because it's easy. I do know, however, that when he uses the hammer you have to Guts the actual hammer strike - if you try and Guts the shockwave you get hit. Vorkken does have quite a bit of bullshit going though, eg; his sword can pierce your Guts but your sword can't pierce his Guts. No fair.

It is annoying that there's no really definitive repository of useful information about the game... although Chip's LP is probably going to start serving that purpose for quite a while.

Aurora
Jan 7, 2008

I'm trying to get the dumb Mind if I Borrow That? bottlecap and I'm not sure what I'm missing, I got the 9 you can get in that one Kahkoo-regah, then the chainsaw tail, chainsaw sword, crab claw, and spike ball cannon, but I'm not sure what I'm missing because I don't have it yet. Is there a list of what exactly you need?

Doc V
Mar 20, 2010
Moving discussion here from the LP thread:

Fedule posted:

Here's something else in the meantime: Is there any way to get the game to remember who you choose as your leaders between missions? I'm getting a bit tired of having to change them from the Colour people all the time.

Not as far as I know. It's pretty annoying, but thankfully your Wonderful Ones tend to level up pretty quickly anyway.

Fedule posted:

Oh, and here's another something else. Is there a guideline for what things can be Hero Counter'd, like how Guts only works against blunt attacks etc?

Hero Counter should work on every attack, but of course the timing for some of them can be trickier than others.

Shadow Ninja 64
May 21, 2007

"I stood there, wondering why the puck was getting bigger...

and then it hit me."


Aurora posted:

I'm trying to get the dumb Mind if I Borrow That? bottlecap and I'm not sure what I'm missing, I got the 9 you can get in that one Kahkoo-regah, then the chainsaw tail, chainsaw sword, crab claw, and spike ball cannon, but I'm not sure what I'm missing because I don't have it yet. Is there a list of what exactly you need?

That one was a pain for me, too. The one I ended up missing for the longest time was the drop from those big spiky dudes that first appear when Wonder Pink shows up. Anyway, your best bet is just to find a list of all the droppable weapons (if one even exists), figure out what drops them, and then go into a level where you can quickly find one and be sure to kill it with the Unite Morph that corresponds to the color of the ring that appears when they spawn in.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.

Doc V posted:

Hero Counter should work on every attack, but of course the timing for some of them can be trickier than others.

Interesting! I'm still not sure how lenient the timing window is (relative to, say, parrying in Revengeance) but I do know that some enemies I can counter with near 100% effectiveness (like those loving turtle assholes - I used to dread their goddamn extending-neck attack, now I pray for it constantly) so that's something.

New question of the day: Op 003-B, Secret Mission 5, Hard, is loving my poo poo up. It's the one with three of those dragon assholes who shield themselves with their wings and you have to pry them open. With three of those assholes at once I can't keep up with the amount of poo poo going down and the Standard Panic Response (Bomb -> Liner) doesn't seem to damage them. Any particular attacks I should be looking to bait and counter or am I just going to have to try and get impossibly good at dodging? (Seriously, it feels like most of their attacks can't be dodged, and I don't know if any can be Guts'd since they're all about biting and claws and fire).

If this thread is about to start getting some traffic again then that's great, because this is a much better place for 101 Questions than the LP thread.

Shadow Ninja 64
May 21, 2007

"I stood there, wondering why the puck was getting bigger...

and then it hit me."


Everything the dragons do can be dodged, and at the very least their head charge thing can be blocked to stun them. If you don't already have it, the Hero Time ability can be super handy against them, especially if you get multiples of them closing their wings and shooting the spike missiles at once. Speaking of that attack, as soon as you activate the claw prying quicktime event to pry the wings open, you're immune to anything else until it finishes, so you can use that fact to avoid attacks from the other dragons.

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend

Kind of related but with Hero counter you can also counter elemental hazards. I was grinding Ukemi in Lorule for that bottlecap by standing in the way of the fire in the volcano and would sometimes end up countering it v:v:v

Aurora
Jan 7, 2008

Shadow Ninja 64 posted:

That one was a pain for me, too. The one I ended up missing for the longest time was the drop from those big spiky dudes that first appear when Wonder Pink shows up. Anyway, your best bet is just to find a list of all the droppable weapons (if one even exists), figure out what drops them, and then go into a level where you can quickly find one and be sure to kill it with the Unite Morph that corresponds to the color of the ring that appears when they spawn in.

Yeah, I eventually wondered whether I had gotten the Panther drill from the Kahkoo-Regah and lo and behold, it was the panther and not the gedie dough-goo. I would kill for a list of things you needed in-game. :v:

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Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

Kind of related but with Hero counter you can also counter elemental hazards. I was grinding Ukemi in Lorule for that bottlecap by standing in the way of the fire in the volcano and would sometimes end up countering it v:v:v

Oh god this was the most annoying thing in that one mission in 001-B where you first fight the tiekku from on top of the building after fighting the You-houghs; he'd fire a bullet/cannonball/shell/thing, it'd land, I'd get UGun out, walk into it, and bam, counter, explosion, nothing left to pick up and fire back. I eventually figured out you could kinda curve the gun into it and that wouldn't trigger the counter, and somehow I thought that this was a more reasonable approach than, say, temporarily unequipping Hero Counter.

Related: Given that, am I right in thinking that Hero Counter actually isn't a matter of timing, and is actually just "you are holding the direction the correct way at the moment of attack"? Because you'd think if it were a timing thing I'd be able to just walk into those shells and not Counter them, but walking into enemy attacks never seems to work - it feels like I have to parry them.

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