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At this point Lighting's connection to Serah is on the level of Walter Sullivan's connection to room 302.
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Jul 29, 2014 18:10
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Sarcastic Lightning comes off as a really poorly written and voice acted Adam Jensen placed in a completely inappropriate context.
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Jul 29, 2014 18:34
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HMS Boromir posted:Sarcastic Lightning comes off as a really poorly written and voice acted Adam Jensen placed in a completely inappropriate context. Now I'm imagining a super pissed of Adam Jensen cyborging his way through the streets of the city, completely and totally sick of all this poo poo after what he went through.
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Jul 29, 2014 18:40
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Neruz posted:Now I'm imagining a super pissed of Adam Jensen cyborging his way through the streets of the city, completely and totally sick of all this poo poo after what he went through.
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Jul 29, 2014 18:43
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Schwartzcough posted:To be fair, having stunted emotions would not necessarily make someone just sit there until they starved to death. Lightning can still think logically- I'd say it makes her more like a robot (than she already was). So she remembers and knows that she did and should care about her sister, even if emotionally she can't feel the connection. I'm not sure if her emotions were taken after she agreed to the plan or before, but either way I'd say she's doing this because she knows, logically, that she wants to save Serah, even if she can't actually work up any emotion about it. Having played most of this game and watched some of KFJ's LP of 13-2, the takeaway is that the series is all about having an absolutely unshakable single-minded obsession with another person to the point of stupidly not caring what you do to the rest of existence. Lightning/Serah, Serah/Lightning, Snow/Serah, Noel/Yuel, That One Yuel/Noel, Every Other Yuel/Caius, Caius/Yuel, Fang/Vanille, Sahz/his son, Chocolina/Sahz and his son, etc. Everyone has one or MAYBE two other people they care about, and pretty much takes the position of "gently caress everyone and everything else" even if they end up destroying all of time and space. I mean, both Noel and Snow start out as enemies here because they've spent literally 500 years brooding over their dead significant others while Lightning had a nice nap. Keeping with the concept of idiotic single-minded obsession, Lightning cares about saving souls to the extent it matters in getting Serah back and doesn't give two shits about anything else. Which (even without her emotion chip removed) makes her lack of any actual caring toward these quests at least in character. Her fed up attitude of "just tell me what I need to get done or get out of my way" makes some sense in that context, and also makes her kind of a player proxy, since no one actually cares about most of this sidequest crap. Surprisingly, a bit later there actually are one or two cutscenes that actually do go into the concept that it's weird for her to not have any emotions toward the concept of saving Serah even though it's a thing she feels like she has to do. Unsurprisingly, if I recall correctly, there is some kind of predictably extra-convoluted explanation bit shoehorned in later that didn't make a whole lot of sense and I don't even really remember or understand what it was. On the brighter side, this whole thing gets us sarcastic fed-up rear end in a top hat Lightning, who is the best character.
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Jul 29, 2014 18:44
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StarkRavingMad posted:On the brighter side, this whole thing gets us sarcastic fed-up rear end in a top hat Lightning, who is the best character. I think my favorite part of douchebag Lightning is that nobody notices. Like that guy guarding the secret entrance to snow's disco party district. He asks Lightning her business, she threatens to kill him, and he just says 'lol nope don't want your sword sorry.'  Maybe people can just see that Lightning is a wuss and won't follow through an any of her threats.
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Jul 29, 2014 19:05
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SelenicMartian posted:Which dress do you picture him in? Ovbiously galvanize would have provided him with the most fabulous Cloud Strife attire available.
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Jul 29, 2014 19:15
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Actually what did the Japanese audience take home from Lightning's portrayal here anyway? Last I checked Japan would have more to lose with the whole emotions thing since they're used to a Lightning that yelled a lot and was more emotional in 13-1 than her stateside counterpart. Since Lightning's such a runaway success over there it just gets me wondering what they thought of such a drastic (in their case) change to the character.
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Jul 29, 2014 19:20
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Michaellaneous posted:Okay I have a question. I think we're all forgetting that doubt is an emotion. It's why Lightning is so eager to help everyone, galvanize made her completely gullible too.
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Jul 29, 2014 20:50
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Duckbehindcover posted:I think we're all forgetting that doubt is an emotion. It's why Lightning is so eager to help everyone, galvanize made her completely gullible too. Empathy is an emotion too. So is helpfullness. Kinda. Sorta. I am not buying this poo poo. e: So is apathy... Okay, let's be honest here. Lightning is loving dead. She is the embodiment of a playable character. She is the Gordon Freeman of FF. She is doing all this poo poo because we control her to do so. Not because of story, or emotions, or drama, or tensions, or anything that would make this game decent in any way.
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Jul 29, 2014 20:57
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Clearly it's a metaphor for just how much galvanize has control over her and just how little free will we have when we're at the mercy of gods.
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Jul 29, 2014 21:08
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Duckbehindcover posted:Clearly it's a metaphor for just how much galvanize has control over her and just how little free will we have when we're at the mercy of gods. No, we are not at the mercy of the gods. We ARE the gods. Galvanize is part of our game, and Lightning is our character. It is so meta.
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Jul 29, 2014 21:12
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Lightning Returns - Actually extremely elaborate standalone Stanley Parable DLC?
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Jul 29, 2014 21:16
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Daius posted:Lightning Returns - Actually extremely elaborate standalone Stanley Parable DLC? Nah, it's poo poo.
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Jul 29, 2014 21:26
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tinkerttoy posted:Nah, it's poo poo. Lignting Returns - It's poo poo e: To be fair, how awesome would it be if - at the end of the game - the narrator of Stanely Parable tells you that he is the storywriter, and you are his actor.
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Jul 29, 2014 21:27
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Schwartzcough posted:To be fair, having stunted emotions would not necessarily make someone just sit there until they starved to death. Lightning can still think logically- I'd say it makes her more like a robot (than she already was). So she remembers and knows that she did and should care about her sister, even if emotionally she can't feel the connection. I'm not sure if her emotions were taken after she agreed to the plan or before, but either way I'd say she's doing this because she knows, logically, that she wants to save Serah, even if she can't actually work up any emotion about it. I don't know about you but I'm not some crazy robot man that just does poo poo because logic says so. I still need to care about the conclusions logic brings me to, or else I don't waste my energy on them.
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Jul 29, 2014 21:33
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Michaellaneous posted:Empathy is an emotion too. So is helpfullness. Kinda. Sorta. Apathy is literally the absence of emotion. Talk to anyone who suffers from chronic depression and apathy is basically "Everything can go to hell, eating and drinking sounds like a lot of effort, I don't have a feeling in my gut about anything anyone says so eh." It's the least productive state of being possible - the only reason someone would describe their protagonist as 'apathetic' during the story is if they've never really experienced apathy (or noticed it) themselves. If Lightning in gameplay was actually apathetic, she would literally just stay in Hope's place until the world ended. Hope or Galvanise could talk to her all day about how "It's the only way to create a functioning new world, if you don't do it you'll die too" and all that, but she would not give a poo poo. She's not apathetic, just surly (and all the better for it), so they should stop describing her as emotionless.
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Jul 29, 2014 21:55
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Basically it's like the Kingdom Hearts 2 emotionless Nobody bullshit, but as a throwaway lampshade on the lack of Lightning's development instead of one of the main plot themes? That's a modest improvement, I'll give SE that much.
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Jul 29, 2014 23:34
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Michaellaneous posted:Okay, let's be honest here. Lightning is loving dead. She is the embodiment of a playable character. She is the Gordon Freeman of FF. Neruz posted:In that case I've worked out what he did; he made her the player character. That is gavalnize's means to ensure that Lightning does what he wants her to do; he took away her emotions and then he summoned a Player to control her, then he seeded the world with collectibles and quests and rewards to trick the player into doing all his busywork. It's all part of his cunning plan to get other people to do all the work of making a new universe for him.
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Jul 30, 2014 00:31
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LeafyOrb posted:So I guess this is a good a time as any to bring this up, but apparently Square Enix released a novel telling what happened with Snow between 13 and 13-2. Apparently Snow went on a journey to find Lighting and ended up befriending a Cactuar who turned out to be the Fal'cie Cactuar who then made him a l'cie with the focus of saving Lightning. Apparently the two then went on a journey together on the time traveling motorcycle you see in one of the paradox endings of 13-2. The fact that someone at Square Enix came up with a premise this brilliant scares and amazes me.
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Jul 30, 2014 00:32
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Ooh, ooh, is this the part where I say that Namine makes no sense and type up a lengthy 5000 word essay on the nature of free will and how much isolation and depression can affect the minds of both the players and the hyper evolving super adaptive player characters that exist in a self existing meta virtual reality that plays our existence as much if not more so than how we play theirs and why Sora's hair is actually a powerful symbol for coping with the absence of a father figure in his life?
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Jul 30, 2014 01:30
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Gologle posted:Ooh, ooh, is this the part where I say that Namine makes no sense and type up a lengthy 5000 word essay on the nature of free will and how much isolation and depression can affect the minds of both the players and the hyper evolving super adaptive player characters that exist in a self existing meta virtual reality that plays our existence as much if not more so than how we play theirs and why Sora's hair is actually a powerful symbol for coping with the absence of a father figure in his life? Yes.
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Jul 30, 2014 01:50
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Michaellaneous posted:Lightning Returns - It's poo poo It'd be better than the actual ending, if nothing else. 
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Jul 30, 2014 01:53
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Lightning's just doing the will of Galvanize because she finds a fundamental and physical satisfaction in the following: -Shutting up Hope -Collecting Erotica -Wearing fancy clothes -Hitting things with swords -Hearing about how she'll save Seruo So is it me or is it painfully obvious that Lumina is just Serih in disguise and can't say she is because if Galvanize found out the entire Etro-betrays-Galvanize-who-is-betraying-Etro-who-is-betraying-Galvanize-who-is-betraying-Lightning gambit would fall to poo poo? And she's really blatantly taking Lightning into her own mind so she can coax Lightning's emotions back out AND reveal her plan without revealing the whole thing to Galvanize while at the same time being obnoxious and twee because she's a little girl in a jRPG? This is all speculation, I only played the demo for this.
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Jul 30, 2014 02:30
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WFGuy posted:Apathy is literally the absence of emotion. Talk to anyone who suffers from chronic depression Please tell us more about how people with depression don't have emotions. 
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Jul 30, 2014 02:48
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E/N Bullshit > I'm trying to save my sister's life but I don't care. First response is to sever.
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Jul 30, 2014 02:54
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Captain Bravo posted:Please tell us more about how people with depression don't have emotions. We probably shouldn't start a shitstorm about this, as this is not the place for this discussion. All I will say is that, as a person who struggles with depression, I can feel that I don't have the strength or energy to feel emotions and ultimately feel hollow or apathetic. This can be helped with a combination proper medication, regular exercise, therapy, and a balanced diet (imo all of these are important, but people have varying results with each portion.) Let's not start arguing about what one person may have meant about depression in a thread about a silly game where you can wear silly hats and fight monsters that are three quarters dessert and one quarter rescue vehicle.
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Jul 30, 2014 02:58
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Discussions about what is and isn't Depression are stupid because even the professionals can't decide on what Depression is, we don't know yet. Now shut up about it and lets talk about this stupid game.
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Jul 30, 2014 03:22
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Aithon posted:Basically it's like the Kingdom Hearts 2 emotionless Nobody bullshit, but as a throwaway lampshade on the lack of Lightning's development instead of one of the main plot themes? That's exactly what it seems like so far. I don't know why they bothered instead of just saying "Lightning is very determined to save her sister and will not put up with anyone (but actually will because she is a video game character)". It's probably not a good idea to say your character is suddenly emotionless and have them act exactly like they always have.
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Jul 30, 2014 03:26
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Momomo posted:That's exactly what it seems like so far. I don't know why they bothered instead of just saying "Lightning is very determined to save her sister and will not put up with anyone (but actually will because she is a video game character)". It's probably not a good idea to say your character is suddenly emotionless and have them act exactly like they always have. It was mentioned by someone else, it's probably just an attempt by Square-Enix to tie together the difference between Japanese Lightning and English Lightning because Japanese Lightning shouted a lot, while English Lightning has always been like this.
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Jul 30, 2014 04:16
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If Lightning had no emotions she'd just be a cross between Data and Spock. No desire to be human, because she already is. No emotions to control, because she doesn't have any. I think it's more like she's just disenchanted with the world and characters around her, like she realizes how retarded they all are and doesn't give a poo poo anymore.
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Jul 30, 2014 05:03
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Obligatum VII posted:I feel robbed. That would have been fantastic. Neruz posted:Discussions about what is and isn't Depression are stupid because even the professionals can't decide on what Depression is, we don't know yet. Now shut up about it and lets talk about this stupid game.
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Jul 30, 2014 05:09
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I'm really just baffled as to how this series ended up here. I actually enjoyed playing the first two games to the extent that I got the platinum trophies (but didn't do the dlc bullshit for XIII-2 because gently caress that business model), but this game is already so far out in left field that it's practically unrecognizable. The whole "Lightning is now a Valkyrie" thing from XIII-2 was bad enough but Lightning Returns is so detached from the other ones it's like they had an idea for a standalone game then decided to use all the XIII models anyway because gently caress it, why should they go to the trouble of making new ones? It's bizarre to see how the series has changed since the 90's, and while I have zero desire to play this have I'm thoroughly enjoying watching you guys mock it.
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Jul 30, 2014 06:07
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Shoren posted:I'm really just baffled as to how this series ended up here. I actually enjoyed playing the first two games to the extent that I got the platinum trophies (but didn't do the dlc bullshit for XIII-2 because gently caress that business model), but this game is already so far out in left field that it's practically unrecognizable. The whole "Lightning is now a Valkyrie" thing from XIII-2 was bad enough but Lightning Returns is so detached from the other ones it's like they had an idea for a standalone game then decided to use all the XIII models anyway because gently caress it, why should they go to the trouble of making new ones? It's bizarre to see how the series has changed since the 90's, and while I have zero desire to play this have I'm thoroughly enjoying watching you guys mock it. You should keep the following in mind. They initially developed a game where they had entirely too many art assets left over (some developer interview outright said so I believe). Then there's the trailer for XIII that only tangentially approximated the actual game we got. I've seen it suggested that XIII is basically a sign of an art department doing whatever, and then trying to fit things together in the writing, so setpieces first. Essentially, a somewhat unplanned mess that tries to actually get some use out of all the assets they still had lying around. And if you ask me, the XIII setpiece rollercoaster does fit that quite well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VHatmEIygg This was the original trailer they had put together, with gameplay that is ultimately closer to XIII-3 than any of the others. Now keep in mind that at that point, they didn't even have much of a game and just cobbled together anything they could to have something to show.
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Jul 30, 2014 11:58
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Ztarlit_Sky posted:You should keep the following in mind. They initially developed a game where they had entirely too many art assets left over (some developer interview outright said so I believe) This is true, but they also outright said that these unused assets were not used in sequels (Whether you believe it or not, that's up to you, but I see no reason to doubt this). I feel this needs to be pointed out since people tend to use this quote out of context all the time.
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Jul 30, 2014 18:42
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WaltherFeng posted:This is true, but they also outright said that these unused assets were not used in sequels (Whether you believe it or not, that's up to you, but I see no reason to doubt this). I feel this needs to be pointed out since people tend to use this quote out of context all the time. Erh, d'oh. I didn't actually know this, thanks for the info. So they produced a ton of art assets for basically nothing? That sounds like terrible project management.
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Jul 30, 2014 18:52
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Ztarlit_Sky posted:Erh, d'oh. I didn't actually know this, thanks for the info. Yeah, if anything that alternative is worse.
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Jul 30, 2014 19:06
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WaltherFeng posted:This is true, but they also outright said that these unused assets were not used in sequels (Whether you believe it or not, that's up to you, but I see no reason to doubt this). I feel this needs to be pointed out since people tend to use this quote out of context all the time. Well, it'd be stupid to just toss good art assets. That then brings up the possibility that the unused art assets were actually crap. Hard to imagine them being worse than the hodgepodge that is the first area in 13-3, though.
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Jul 30, 2014 19:12
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If the unused assets weren't used in later games, then... I mean, that jungle area at the end of this trailer, is definitely in XIII-2, and I don't remember it in XIII at all. Am I mistaken?
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Jul 30, 2014 22:23
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The T posted:If the unused assets weren't used in later games, then... I mean, that jungle area at the end of this trailer, is definitely in XIII-2, and I don't remember it in XIII at all. Am I mistaken? Sazh and Vanille have an adventure there in XIII after everyone splits up at the start of the game.
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Jul 30, 2014 22:30
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