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The tricky bit about bikes is not why they turn, but why they stay up, the turning bit is sorted. Bikes go around corners because the front wheel is offset to the back wheel relative to the direction of travel. If you had a bike that couldn't steer (fixed front end) it would not be able to corner, instead the bike would just flop over if you tried to lean. As you go around the corner the front and back wheel will take different paths with the front wheel describing a wider arc, hence the need for steering, you offset the front wheel to the outside of the turn you are taking. Once the wheels are offset to each other the bike will begin to turn. The front wheel then needs to turn into the turn until the offset is neither increasing or decreasing, this is a stable turn. This does not mean the handlebars will be pointing into the turn, but depends on the speed, lean angle, radius of turn, height of centre of mass, length of wheel base, etc. Tightening or widening your line mid corner is changing the offset i.e. to tighten a turn you turn opposite to the direction of turn (push on the inside bar), increasing the offset of the front wheel, to widen it you turn into the turn, reducing the offset and lift your bike up. To get the front wheel offset you can either (counter) steer the bike, or lean and let the bike steer itself, one of these is objectively more effective than the other. In summary I think that everyone agrees that: 1. Bikes work (and are pretty great) 2. (Counter) Steering makes your bike turn 3. Leaning also makes your bike turn but not as well 4. Understanding counter steering can help you become a better rider as you understand how to get the most rapid and controlled change in direction possible. 5. This argument/discussion is dumb or at least in the wrong thread The reverse rotating rotors were aimed at reducing the gyroscopic forces and therefore reducing the effort required to turn the bars, not at how the bike itself turns. The idea being that less effort required means greater precision in steering. (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/311/1486/motorcycle-article/reverse-rotating-rotors-update.aspx) Edit: Top of page so a cool picture to invalidate everything I have said: 
Ninja.Bob fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Jul 30, 2014 |
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Jul 30, 2014 03:45
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Can we post pics or videos now
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Jul 30, 2014 04:17
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ShaneB posted:Can we post pics or videos now KLR six fiddy time 
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Jul 30, 2014 04:19
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ShaneB posted:Can we post pics or videos now Does SA still have word filters? If so we need a replacement anytime someone types "countersteering"
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Jul 30, 2014 04:21
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Ninja.Bob posted:Edit: Top of page so a cool picture to invalidate everything I have said: SM racing has nothing to do with physics, clearly they follow some other, as-yet undiscovered rules.
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Jul 30, 2014 04:32
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Just before I run - what the gently caress do you think counter steering actually means? You cannot countersteer with your hands off the bars, by definition. Exactly. And what I'm saying is that you can accomplish this by weighting the pegs. You can make the bars move by shifting your weight on the pegs in specific ways. You can make them move in the same way that you do when you countersteer them, laying the bike over likewise. It is just that: Z3n posted:Jesus Christ this is the most absurd argument. It is possible to turn a bike without using the bars, just not with any measure of precision, speed, or accuracy. I value all of those things, so using body weight to turn a bike is functionally worthless to me. ^^^ That's the end of the argument as far as what I'm saying. Agree completely. But when you hear that you 'can't steer a motorcycle with the pegs, you have to countersteer(hands on bars)' said absolutely, well it's just not true. Sagebrush posted:I don't think anyone has claimed that steering by shifting your weight side to side is ever a good idea or a more effective or precise way of controlling the bike. The argument is just "is it possible to do so?" and the answer is absolutely yes. Motorcycles are dynamically stable in a straight line, and countersteering is a way of upsetting that balance to induce the lean that causes the turn on the frog on the log on the bottom of the sea. If you can upset the balance in another way and induce the same lean, you can cause the same turn. Hi 5, see we aren't so different 
nsaP fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Jul 30, 2014 |
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Jul 30, 2014 05:33
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Snowdens Secret posted:Of course a Brit riding an Italian bike would bring up this load of pollux 
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Jul 30, 2014 07:40
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Shimrod posted:This arguement is so loving stupid. You can turn the bike with just shifting your body weight, I do it all the time, it's not as effective as using the bars but it works. If you don't believe it happens, you will if you go out and actually do it. Holy poo poo. That bike needs a clean 
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Jul 30, 2014 10:55
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Jesus, is this still going? It's really not hard.Barnsy posted:Every time I see something about countersteering the scientist inside me cringes, and I'm not even a physicist. It's very obvious that at higher speeds, there's no 'bike falling in the other direction' happening. Then the scientist inside you apparently needs to learn that the laws of physics don't just change at different speeds or scales* The bigger the bike, the higher the speed, the bigger the inertial mass meaning the greater leverage needed to make the bike lean (and thus make the front wheel turn in). The inertial mass of the bike is essentially a combination of Earth's gravity and the velocity of the bike. The bike has a lot of inertial mass at high speeds and that mass will want to carry on going straight on whatever course it's on. Pointing the front wheel in a given direction will make the bike rotate around the centre of gravity, leaning it in the opposite direction. Certainly, on a two-wheeled vehicle gyroscopic forces do increase with speed, and have a greater effect, including helping to lean the bike over but it is not the main mechanism of leaning the bike, nor even a major contributor as the axis of rotation is not in line with the bikes CoG. As Sage has pointed out, you can have a bike with no gyroscopic forces whatsoever, and it works just fine. Both weight shifting and counter steering work, at all speeds, at all weights of bike and rider, to varying degrees. As some have pointed out, with motorcycles as speed increases to track speeds, the body weight of the rider is inconsequential next to the inertial mass of the bike, and has little effect. Counter steering works at all speeds because even when the bike is nearly stationary, the inertial mass of the bike still includes the force of gravity acting on both rider and bike. EDIT: For reference, the speed required to stop gravity being a factor in motorcycle handling is roughly 40,320 km/h. KTM has yet to confirm whether the next generation Super Duke will be capable. *quantum scales be damned  Ninja.Bob posted:The tricky bit about bikes is not why they turn, but why they stay up It becomes easier when you realise that a bike is never going "straight". It's always describing an arc. Anyone wants to argue with me needs to post a picture or video:  This is an adventure badge, it proves I went on an adventure this week. ReelBigLizard fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Jul 30, 2014 |
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Jul 30, 2014 13:36
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Eh, it'll rain soon. I ride it as my only transport, I gave up on keeping it shiny a long time ago.
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Jul 30, 2014 13:36
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GARSH ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS??? *add a few paragraphs* At least this might mean you are finally on my level of never talking about counter steering ever again. hot sauce posted:Youtube's angriest motorcycle vlogger is back. America's roads are so... wide and undefined.
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Jul 30, 2014 15:46
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KARMA! posted:America's roads are so... wide and undefined. Much like Americans! Ha... Ha... Ha...
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Jul 30, 2014 15:50
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KARMA! posted:America's roads are so... wide and undefined. 
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Jul 30, 2014 16:29
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That dude lives in Alberta
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Jul 30, 2014 16:36
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Which is technically part of America.
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Jul 30, 2014 16:53
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Safety Dance posted:Which is technically part of America.  I think we all knew what was going on there
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Jul 30, 2014 17:38
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Buddy's been having some fun shooting promo videos for Brammo: Edit: Smugmug album: http://www.seppes.com/Motorcycles/OtherMoto/Brammo-San-Francisco/ 
Z3n fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jul 30, 2014 |
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Jul 30, 2014 19:38
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KARMA! posted:America's roads are so... wide and undefined. Most of the country expanded with cars, so urban sprawl turns everything into a giant stripmall outside of metro areas. Seattle still managed to gently caress up their street building, though. https://www.google.com/maps/@47.662931,-122.362875,3a,75y,263.41h,58.78t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sUjLzukGrgxZUKn2h_3069g!2e0 Every residential street is a game of 'pull into an unoccupied spot so people can pass'.
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Jul 30, 2014 21:05
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I find Seattle interesting because, based on gmaps, the non-rural area is roughly the same as Auckland, it's built on a hilly isthmus, and it only has one highway which runs north-south and, I imagine, is always bottlenecked to gently caress during the day. I don't know if the zoom level is retained in links but I have them both on 5km zoom and they seem roughly identical in size, if you ignore the 'greater Auckland region' which is just rural and semi-rural areas west of Henderson and south-east of flat bush. Seattle. Auckland.
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Jul 30, 2014 23:25
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I live in Seattle and have spent time in Auckland, they're not dissimilar in feel.
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Jul 30, 2014 23:32
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Spiffness posted:I live in Seattle and have spent time in Auckland, they're not dissimilar in feel. Is Southern Seattle a place that nobody wants to go?
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Jul 30, 2014 23:34
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Yeah the south end is like a 3rd world country.
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Jul 30, 2014 23:41
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I honestly think Southern Everycity is a place nobody wants to go.
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Jul 30, 2014 23:42
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Especially south Detroit
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Jul 31, 2014 01:51
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Safety Dance posted:I honestly think Southern Everycity is a place nobody wants to go. A lot of Canadian cities are the reverse.
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Jul 31, 2014 02:59
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Sagebrush posted:A lot of Canadian cities are the reverse. As is the UK.
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Jul 31, 2014 11:11
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Don't know if this was here already, but this bike is sort of crazy and genius at the same time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfguM8Og-1A
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Jul 31, 2014 11:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCAnDmDQgsc
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Jul 31, 2014 11:59
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK2xzWFF_RM
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Jul 31, 2014 12:03
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adary posted:Don't know if this was here already, but this bike is sort of crazy and genius at the same time: Genius, terrifying genius. I love the aircraft inspired body and dash. EDIT: I'd have done it OD green and fitted a free spinning aerial bomb fuse on the nose: 
ReelBigLizard fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Jul 31, 2014 |
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Jul 31, 2014 12:14
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I can't believe all you scrubs just scrolled past this like it isn't amazing.
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Jul 31, 2014 16:22
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That your roommate, or do you know more than one person with a brammo? Them's some  pics
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Jul 31, 2014 16:29
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dictionar.com posted:Especially south Detroit Yust a city boy!
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Jul 31, 2014 16:58
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Spiffness posted:I can't believe all you scrubs just scrolled past this like it isn't amazing. Yeah, cause that's the most impressive jump to have happened on the streets of California https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYu7DQn5vAI 
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Jul 31, 2014 17:52
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A 20K dollar 460 lb electric bike jumping is bitchin', even when stacked with a $200 dirt bike from the 80's goin' huge. (though that DRZ jump will always be rad as poo poo)
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Jul 31, 2014 17:59
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Oh it's urban jumping you're after, is it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKlbrx79TDE&t=34s
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Jul 31, 2014 18:24
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Meh, not the same when a pro does it in a sterile laboratory environment
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Jul 31, 2014 19:53
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Exactly, it isn't the jump that matters. It's the risk of injury/lawsuits that matters.
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Jul 31, 2014 20:03
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M42 posted:That your roommate, or do you know more than one person with a brammo? Them's some Roommate, yeah. Better cause he's never jumped a bike before in his life, literally just "Yeah, hit it about 30mph with steady throttle". Video to come when it gets made.
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Jul 31, 2014 20:17
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How should you handle the bike if you catch air like that? Loose on the handlebars when you come down right? Obviously keep it straight. Pretty sure I jumped over a railroad once going like 80, but didn't catch much air because it was uphill.
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Jul 31, 2014 20:21
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