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Shavnir posted:It's a brew but it almost t8ed. Both games went t2 pentad prism, t3 faithless looting, footsteps of the goryo on hulk, eot hulk dies, get body double and viscera seer, sac body double (copying hulk) to get mogg fanatic and revilark. Sac the fanatic for a point and sac the lark to get fanatic and body double back as a revilark. Sac fanatic then sac body double to get itself and fanatic back ad infinitum. That sounds like the jankiest brew, I bet losing to that puts people on tilt bad. It is like that loving goyro's vengence reanimator deck. Auto-lose to any counter, fail to go off a zillion times, but occasionally t2 people out of loving nowhere. You know some tard on reddit was arguing about how storm is the reason ponder and preordain are banned in modern. There are so many t2-t3 combo decks in modern that are only held back by lack of consistency really. Amulet of Vigor and the Goyro's Reanimator would be a poo poo load better with more consistency.
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Jul 31, 2014 15:30
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jassi007 posted:That sounds like the jankiest brew, I bet losing to that puts people on tilt bad. It is like that loving goyro's vengence reanimator deck. Auto-lose to any counter, fail to go off a zillion times, but occasionally t2 people out of loving nowhere. It runs pact of negation and has that draw three discard three at eot card so it finds its pieces very well. The guy I was playing against said he did several hundred goldfishes and ended up with a 40 percent t3 win ratio.
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Jul 31, 2014 16:20
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Shavnir posted:It runs pact of negation and has that draw three discard three at eot card so it finds its pieces very well. The guy I was playing against said he did several hundred goldfishes and ended up with a 40 percent t3 win ratio. Yeah, but how many of those wins turn into hardcore scoops against Remand/Mana Leak? The one-drop dig spells were powerful because they were so cheap and efficient, converting early tempo into card quality so you could get around countermagic.
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Jul 31, 2014 16:27
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LordSaturn posted:Yeah, but how many of those wins turn into hardcore scoops against Remand/Mana Leak? The one-drop dig spells were powerful because they were so cheap and efficient, converting early tempo into card quality so you could get around countermagic. Probably the ones that he doesn't have pact of negation, which is there because he doesn't actually need to pay for it
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Jul 31, 2014 16:44
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jassi007 posted:That sounds like the jankiest brew, I bet losing to that puts people on tilt bad. It is like that loving goyro's vengence reanimator deck. Auto-lose to any counter, fail to go off a zillion times, but occasionally t2 people out of loving nowhere. Storm and twin absolutely are the main reasons, though. Ponder with fetches is immensely powerful.
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Jul 31, 2014 16:51
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Thinking about it I believe he also ran swan song.
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Jul 31, 2014 17:03
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What do you guys think of Travis Woos new Goblin Guide Twin Combo deck? I feel like he went from taking odd ball ideas and building them as optimally as possible to just making the worst card choices in the world because its "fun" He also argued that GG is the best card in the deck and worth giving your opponent extra draws, in a deck that can go "oops lol I attacked for a million!"
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Jul 31, 2014 23:37
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Is it this list? 4 Goblin Guide 2 Grim Lavamancer 4 Gitaxian Probe 4 Serum Visions 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Young Pyromancer 4 Remand 4 Snapcaster Mage 2 Vendilion Clique 4 Pestermite 3 Splinter Twin 4 Steam Vents 4 Scalding Tarn 1 Sulfur Falls 2 Arid Mesa 2 Misty Rainforest 2 Island 3 Mountain 3 Mutavault It looks like he took UR delver and took out the Delvers and some counters to plug in GG and the Twin Combo. It seems really bad because it's so unfocused, why spend the first part of the game beating down with GG and Peezy tokens if the endgame plan is to infinite combo finish, except you only get remands to protect the combo. E: I just noticed the Mutavaults, what the hell are they doing in this list outside of setting yourself up for color screw? CFB bills Woo as "one of the premier deckbuilders in Magic" but has he done anything noteworthy since he invented Living End and Through the Breach? He keeps trying to make ninjabearwhatever happen but I don't think it ever made any waves outside of making budding mtgfinanciers bug people for phantasmal bears and ninja of the deep hours for a few hours during trades. BXCX fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 00:30
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Wadjamaloo posted:What do you guys think of Travis Woos new Goblin Guide Twin Combo deck? It is awful, like almost everything Travis Woo-related, including Travis Woo.
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Aug 1, 2014 00:31
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Summary of Travis Woo: http://youtu.be/-WUU-Udna-E?t=2m24s
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Aug 1, 2014 00:36
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Boco_T posted:Summary of Travis Woo: http://youtu.be/-WUU-Udna-E?t=2m24s
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Aug 1, 2014 00:53
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That noise is horrifying.
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Aug 1, 2014 01:20
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neetengie posted:Pure analpain for anyone who doesn't want to watch it. At least you didn't link to the Enchantress videos. running Modern Assault Loam: t3, opponent has Joraga Treespeaker (no level counters) out, plays Khalni Garden, swings with Treespeaker for 1. Travis Woo: "The question is whether we - we would want to Seismic Assault the plant for some reason" neetengie posted:you gotta be making GBS threads me he cant be this retarded found it for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wAlT3n2tc match starts at 7:00, skip to 8:00 for the debate over discarding a land to kill a 0/1 a dozen swans fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 02:19
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I played with Travis this weekend and his brother Elliott made a deck somewhat like this for the VRD. I mean, it was R/U using undercosted red critters and blue backup ... so he prolly got that idea from there.
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Aug 1, 2014 02:33
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a dozen swans posted:running Modern Assault Loam: who am i kidding he is that retarded
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Aug 1, 2014 02:36
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BXCX posted:CFB bills Woo as "one of the premier deckbuilders in Magic" but has he done anything noteworthy since he invented Living End and Through the Breach? He keeps trying to make ninjabearwhatever happen but I don't think it ever made any waves outside of making budding mtgfinanciers bug people for phantasmal bears and ninja of the deep hours for a few hours during trades. He also has this awful cult that follows him now and has turned into a positive reinforcement circle jerk. He is like george lucas. He was also really good at making good decks with bad cards, but now he just makes bad decks with good cards. eSporks fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 03:25
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Travis Woo is trash garbage from my rear end that steals cool ideas and then Travis Woos them which means adding a dumb janky combo or interaction which also makes the idea worse. I hope that concludes this matter.
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Aug 1, 2014 03:26
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Why all the hate? He doesn't claim to invent the decks when people send them his way. He doesn't claim they're better than they are. He doesn't live up to the impossible standard of brewing up legitimate contenders able to dethrone t1 decks in an evolved meta. He is what he is, and if you don't like him you can ignore him.
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Aug 1, 2014 04:21
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Have you read his facebook? He does all of those things you said he doesn't. This dude legitimately thinks goblin guide is a good fit in a deck that has an infinite combo.
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Aug 1, 2014 04:40
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Wadjamaloo posted:Have you read his facebook? He does all of those things you said he doesn't. This dude legitimately thinks goblin guide is a good fit in a deck that has an infinite combo. CFB must have had too many goblin guides in stock
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Aug 1, 2014 04:46
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Yo, does anyone have a good list for a Tokens deck? My friend likes playing those type of decks, and has some good cards for the archetype, and he's trying to get into Modern. I showed him some lists if he ever wants to progress onto newer decks too, but would like to help him make a pretty good tokens deck for our LGS.
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Aug 1, 2014 06:48
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neetengie posted:Yo, does anyone have a good list for a Tokens deck? My friend likes playing those type of decks, and has some good cards for the archetype, and he's trying to get into Modern. I showed him some lists if he ever wants to progress onto newer decks too, but would like to help him make a pretty good tokens deck for our LGS. BW Tokens may be where he wants to end up, he should be able to pick up the Modern Event Deck pretty cheap because it's not selling all that well and it has a good chunk of the pieces for a decent build. Craig Wescoe is a fan of the deck, although his version is not even close to budget.
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Aug 1, 2014 07:10
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BXCX posted:BW Tokens may be where he wants to end up, he should be able to pick up the Modern Event Deck pretty cheap because it's not selling all that well and it has a good chunk of the pieces for a decent build. Craig Wescoe is a fan of the deck, although his version is not even close to budget. He can get the event deck for around 50 bucks on amazon.
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Aug 1, 2014 13:37
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I actually posted about this a few days ago in the main thread, here's a quote of my post:Boco_T posted:I'd say you should just get the main cards from the Modern event deck, but throw out the irrelevant stuff and just buy a more coherent version of Wb Tokens. I put it together cheaply and there are plenty of places to slowly upgrade.
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Aug 1, 2014 15:29
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Do you guys think its safe to say Dredge is the worst of the "able to win a tournament" Vintage decks. It's interesting to see how little its won on MODO compared to the rest of the Meta-game.
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Aug 1, 2014 17:39
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Going to States tomorrow, taking Finkelstorm. Getting last minute cold feet, my board looks like this currently:
How can I win through graveyard hate other than storm's default plan of "make them have it" and how tech-y is throwing in some Mizzium Skins?
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Aug 1, 2014 17:45
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Do you guys think its safe to say Dredge is the worst of the "able to win a tournament" Vintage decks. It's interesting to see how little its won on MODO compared to the rest of the Meta-game. Bazaar Dredge is frequently called the strongest deck in Vintage, but it also folds the hardest to hate cards. When you look for Dredge in the results of a tournament, check the sideboards - if nobody won playing Dredge, it's because enough people packed enough bin hate to stop it. EDIT: Also newer players may be playing it, making silly mistakes like "not mulling literally to 1 looking for Bazaar of Baghdad".
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Aug 1, 2014 17:58
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Going to states tomorrow, playing Affinity. Could I please get feedback on my list? Right now, a 2nd Tez and the 3rd Overseer are fighting for that last spot. 4 Mox Opal 4 Springleaf Drum 2 Memnite 4 Ornithopter 4 Vault Skirge 4 Signal Pest 2 Master of Etherium 2 Etched Champion 4 Cranial Plating 4 Darksteel Citadel 3 Glimmervoid 1 Island 4 Blinkmoth Nexus 4 Inkmoth Nexus 4 Arcbound Ravager 3 Thoughtcast 3 Galvanic Blast 3 Steel Overseer 1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas SB: 1 Torpor Orb SB: 2 Spellskite SB: 1 Blood Moon SB: 2 Thoughtseize SB: 1 Whipflare SB: 1 Illness in the Ranks SB: 2 Ancient Grudge SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage SB: 2 Wear // Tear SB: 1 Etched Champion SB: 1 Dismember
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Aug 1, 2014 18:20
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Everblight posted:Going to States tomorrow, taking Finkelstorm. Getting last minute cold feet, my board looks like this currently: Could you put a couple of additional bounce spells in the board, maybe like 3 Echoing Truths?
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Aug 1, 2014 18:21
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LordSaturn posted:Bazaar Dredge is frequently called the strongest deck in Vintage, but it also folds the hardest to hate cards. When you look for Dredge in the results of a tournament, check the sideboards - if nobody won playing Dredge, it's because enough people packed enough bin hate to stop it. I think thats a moot point. No one playing vintage is ever going to lack a sideboard for Dredge. I'm not saying the Deck is dead or not powerful but I think it's now firmly not a winning choice. All other things being equal if you are going to sit down and choose a deck to try and win a Vintage tournament, Dredge has to be pretty low on the list.
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Aug 1, 2014 18:27
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Everblight posted:Going to States tomorrow, taking Finkelstorm. Getting last minute cold feet, my board looks like this currently: The reason you only run one echoing truth is because when you go off, you will be able to see your entire deck most of the time. Take out the hurkyl's recalls (imo this is the weakest card in your board) and put in some vandalblasts so you don't autolose to chalice on 2 and to supplement your matchup against affinity, would be my advice. E: if you really would rather run wear//tear, one hallowed fountain won't break you and it should be easy to find, plus you can make white off manamorphose. Tonetta fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 18:55
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Valicious posted:Going to states tomorrow, playing Affinity. Could I please get feedback on my list? Right now, a 2nd Tez and the 3rd Overseer are fighting for that last spot. I think tezzeret is better than overseer. Honestly I'm always surprised by people playing overseer. He dies to a stiff breeze and doesn't do anything when you play him. Tezzeret digs at least, hopefully finding the thing you need.
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Aug 1, 2014 19:02
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Tonetta posted:The reason you only run one echoing truth is because when you go off, you will be able to see your entire deck most of the time. I shouldn't even be giving advice to someone playing Storm of all decks (I sure do love playing 2 turns in a round of Legacy. That's exactly why I bought $3000 worth of cards.) but Shattering Spree gets around Chalice and is arguably better against Affinity. It avoids their Spell Pierce if they play it.
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Aug 1, 2014 21:49
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Ciprian Maricon posted:I think thats a moot point. No one playing vintage is ever going to lack a sideboard for Dredge. I'm not saying the Deck is dead or not powerful but I think it's now firmly not a winning choice. All other things being equal if you are going to sit down and choose a deck to try and win a Vintage tournament, Dredge has to be pretty low on the list. It's way cheaper than the other decks in Vintage, because it doesn't run Power Nine cards, except some builds that have Ancestral Recall and/or Black Lotus. It's powerful against an unprepared meta, but everyone is preparing for it. My list online has a maindeck Nihil Spellbomb, every tutor, and 7 sideboard cards against Dredge. I really think it's too much and I need to cut some of them, because I haven't gone up against dredge in a week and haven't seen a good Dredge player in longer.
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Aug 1, 2014 21:52
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suicidesteve posted:I shouldn't even be giving advice to someone playing Storm of all decks (I sure do love playing 2 turns in a round of Legacy. That's exactly why I bought $3000 worth of cards.) but Shattering Spree gets around Chalice and is arguably better against Affinity. It avoids their Spell Pierce if they play it. I took the thread's advice and removed the Hurkyl's for an even 1/1/1 of Shattering Spree, Shatterstorm and Wear/Tear. I just can't give up that instant-speed goodness that Wear/Tear brings to the table, since all-in on an Inkmoth Nexus is just too much. EDIT: So it does Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 21:54
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Everblight posted:I took the thread's advice and removed the Hurkyl's for an even 1/1/1 of Shattering Spree, Shatterstorm and Wear/Tear. I just can't give up that instant-speed goodness that Wear/Tear brings to the table, since all-in on an Inkmoth Nexus is just too much. I am curious, though, how exactly Shattering Spree gets around Spell Pierce... did it get errata'd to be a creature spell while I was out? Or does Replicate work like storm where they have to counter each one? The Replicate copies aren't countered.
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Aug 1, 2014 21:56
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:It's way cheaper than the other decks in Vintage, because it doesn't run Power Nine cards, except some builds that have Ancestral Recall and/or Black Lotus. It's powerful against an unprepared meta, but everyone is preparing for it. My list online has a maindeck Nihil Spellbomb, every tutor, and 7 sideboard cards against Dredge. I really think it's too much and I need to cut some of them, because I haven't gone up against dredge in a week and haven't seen a good Dredge player in longer. That's all true but still irrelevant to what I'm saying. If tomorrow you were going to choose a deck to have the best chance you could of winning a Vintage tournament would Dredge be that choice? Not "oh well I don't have power I guess Dredge is a solid choice" or the incredibly unlikely "I think everyone forgot and won't bring much hate" just flat out "I want the best chance to win" would Dredge be on the list of options? I don't think so. A few years ago I would have said there were enough reasons to still consider Dredge but the hate has gotten tons better and Dredge hasn't improved much at all.
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Aug 1, 2014 22:18
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Ciprian Maricon posted:That's all true but still irrelevant to what I'm saying. If tomorrow you were going to choose a deck to have the best chance you could of winning a Vintage tournament would Dredge be that choice? Not "oh well I don't have power I guess Dredge is a solid choice" or the incredibly unlikely "I think everyone forgot and won't bring much hate" just flat out "I want the best chance to win" would Dredge be on the list of options? No, it wouldn't be, I agree with that. I just think price is a big consideration, especially for Vintage, which is why I'm surprised that I'm not seeing Dredge online much at all. If I had the money I'd most like to play U/W Flash, instead I play Planeswalker Control and Storm because they run a lot of the same cards.
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Aug 1, 2014 22:40
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Ciprian Maricon posted:A few years ago I would have said there were enough reasons to still consider Dredge but the hate has gotten tons better and Dredge hasn't improved much at all. Vintage Manaless Bazaar Dredge doesn't win through hate, it wins when people don't bring enough hate to get some online reliably before Bazaar wins the game on its own. Here's Carsten Kotter's notes from a recent Vintage tournament: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29053_Oathbreaking-In-Prague.html That Article posted:As to the format's other bogeyman, Dredge, triggering Oath against them and using Griselbrand to find Vault/Key seemed already somewhat reasonable, so I decided to make two of my anti-Dredge slots Needles (name Bazaar of Baghdad) so as to have even more random ways to hate Wasteland or Kuldotha Forgemaster. The other four were filled with Ravenous Trap because I think that's by far the best hate card against the deck. Six slots in the board this time. In a deck that can just randomly Turn 2 Griselbrand. That Article posted:- There were only one or two Dredge players. I might just ignore the deck next time - in Prague at least. And it's true, right now Dredge Hate is at high ebb, and that means not many dredge decks playing or winning. Which in turn means that people who want to win tournaments with other decks will start adjusting their sideboard to account for the low incidence of Dredge players. But the shifting sideboards will let Dredge break through again, and the cycle will continue. It's cool if you want to play something else, but pretending that Bazaar of Baghdad isn't one of the Five Pillars of Vintage is just absurd. The deck is still completely broken-strong. If the improving Dredge-hate was so good it was getting maindecked as a 4-of in multiple decks, THEN you'd have a field immunized against Dredge. Until then, it's a sideboard-density pendulum.
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Aug 1, 2014 22:47
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Ciprian Maricon posted:That's all true but still irrelevant to what I'm saying. If tomorrow you were going to choose a deck to have the best chance you could of winning a Vintage tournament would Dredge be that choice? Not "oh well I don't have power I guess Dredge is a solid choice" or the incredibly unlikely "I think everyone forgot and won't bring much hate" just flat out "I want the best chance to win" would Dredge be on the list of options? I don't think I agree with that. What hate is killing Dredge so badly that can't be anti-hated? The big problem is that you have to board in every single card against Dredge and every card you decide to take out of your SB against Dredge is another opportunity for you to get killed by drawing 0 anti-dredge cards and/or having to mulligan down. Moreover, the most prevalent anti-dredge card is Grafdigger's Cage, which is hot garbage against Dredge because it's actually an anti-Oath card that gets played for dual purposes. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 00:53
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