MtG Eternal Thread - Swimming in a pool of Tarmogoyfs

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > MtG Eternal Thread - Swimming in a pool of Tarmogoyfs

JerryLee: Feb 4, 2005; THE RESERVED LIST! THE RESERVED LIST! I CANNOT SHUT UP ABOUT THE RESERVED LIST!

Angry Grimace posted:

I don't think I agree with that. What hate is killing Dredge so badly that can't be anti-hated? The big problem is that you have to board in every single card against Dredge and every card you decide to take out of your SB against Dredge is another opportunity for you to get killed by drawing 0 anti-dredge cards and/or having to mulligan down. Moreover, the most prevalent anti-dredge card is Grafdigger's Cage, which is hot garbage against Dredge because it's actually an anti-Oath card that gets played for dual purposes.

What makes Grafdigger's Cage such garbage against Dredge? Is it just the fact that it can get removed and, once it does, the dredge player is fully equipped to come back?

# ? Aug 2, 2014 01:25

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# ? May 11, 2024 21:33

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

JerryLee posted:

What makes Grafdigger's Cage such garbage against Dredge? Is it just the fact that it can get removed and, once it does, the dredge player is fully equipped to come back?

Bridge From Below doesn't actually make creatures come into play from the graveyard, so you can just dredge away and make zombies at will. Sure, you can't dread return flame-kin zealot, but in Vintage you have Bazaar so you just do it on their end step, untap and win.

# ? Aug 2, 2014 01:41

The GOP Delusion: Sep 10, 2010; The security of Israel is a moral imperative for all free peoples.

JerryLee posted:

What makes Grafdigger's Cage such garbage against Dredge? Is it just the fact that it can get removed and, once it does, the dredge player is fully equipped to come back?

It doesn't stop Dredge from well, Dredging. Dredge will just fill up it's graveyard and remove cage at it's leisure. It doesn't stop Bridge either. Golgari thug can return an ingot chewer to kill cage and can be dredged, basically grafdigger's cage both does little against dredge and is easy to deal with, as well as taking up valuable sb slots. When I'm playing dredge I'm always happy to see a cage, it means they're less likely to have more hate that actually does much.

# ? Aug 2, 2014 01:48

Chamale: Jul 11, 2010; I'm helping!

Speaking of Vintage sideboards, I've been running Illness in the Ranks in my UB Control deck's sideboard and it's worked very well. I don't think I've lost a single game against Oath or Young Peezy where I resolved that card.

# ? Aug 2, 2014 02:50

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

Angry Grimace posted:

I don't think I agree with that. What hate is killing Dredge so badly that can't be anti-hated?

LordSaturn posted:

It's cool if you want to play something else, but pretending that Bazaar of Baghdad isn't one of the Five Pillars of Vintage is just absurd.

For like, the third time, that's not what I'm saying.

Its not a winning choice at the moment. The same way say, Storm in Modern isn't a winning choice. If you want to win a Vintage tournament today, Bazaar Dredge is not a strong choice. That doesn't mean its dead and it doesn't mean its gone from the meta.

Ciprian Maricon posted:

I'm not saying the Deck is dead or not powerful but I think it's now firmly not a winning choice.

I'm not sure how much clearer I can be. At no point did I say Dredge was "dead" or Bazaar no longer "a pillar of the format" I think its a bad choice right now, and will continue to be a bad choice until something is printed to shift the meta-game because as long as Bazaar still exists no Vintage deck is going to stop devoting an immense amount of the board to powerful hate cards.

# ? Aug 2, 2014 03:02

Valicious: Aug 16, 2010

Incoming Magic talk:

Just got back from Modern State Championships. I took the standard Affinity deck playing a 2/2 Master of Etherium/Etched Champion split, 3 Thoughtcasts, 4 Galvanic Blasts.

Round 1: Ad Nauseam
He got his combo game 1 the turn before I would swing for lethal. I Thoughtseized a Simian Spirit Guide that he would've used to go off the next turn, then I swung for lethal. In game 3 he just didn't draw the right cards, and I bashed face.
2-1

Round 2: Goblin Guide/Burn
Girl was very new to Modern. She threw a bunch of burn spells to my face in game 1, but I outraced her. She got me down to 7 life in game 2 througb a combination of burn spells a Goblin Guides. I saw she had no cards in hand, so I paid 2 life to cast a Vault Skirge and an Etched Champion. She didn't draw a burn spell, so I suited up my Skirge with two Platings and swung to stabalize. I got lethal the next turn.
2-0

Round 3: American Control
I don't remember too much of this round. I got the nut draw in game 1 and won easily, then got Spellskite and a Plated Champion swinging to chop him down game 2.
2-0

Round 4:
I don't remember what I played.
2-0

Round 5: UW Control
Game 1 was close in that it was a race between my Plated Chamion and his Celestial Colonade. I drew a Galvanic Blast and killed his Colonade when it tried to attack. I equipped a second Plating on my Champion, then tried to cast another Champion. He nodded, we proceeded to Combat, and I swung for lethal with my Double Plated Champion. After counting up damage and realizing it was lethal, he announced he actually had a response to me casting the Champion and cracked a fetch to Remand it. I would've called Judge!, but the attack was still lethal anyways so I didn't bother.
In game 2 he got mana screwed with two Verdicts in hands. I figured he had a wrath, but I just played as fast as I could and killed him.
2-0

Round 6: We decided to draw.

cut to top 8, I'm top seed.

Round 1: I was playing against some GW rogue deck.
I just killed him with an explosive start in game 1. The downside was I didn't see more than 33 land and a Qasali Pridemage and a Birds of Paradise.. I assumed (incorrectly) he was playing Pod.
Game 2: I started out fast enough by beating him down to high single-digits and 5 poison. He plays a Stony Silence and flashes in an Aven Mindcensorto trade with one of my attackers. (He also has a Qasali Pridemage just sitting there.) I topdeck a Wear // Tear and jam it down to blow up the Silence. He's down to low single-digits by this point when he plays a Worship. I'm trying to survive until I can draw my second Wear // Tear or get in for poison. (It should be noted he has a Ghost Quarter in play.) The game progresses and he has played another Avwn Mindcensor and a [card]Linvala, Keeper of Silence, as well as equipped them with Sword of Fire and Ice and Sword of War and Peace respectively. I had 3 Inkmoths, two Ravagers, and two Platings out. (as well as a ton of land and ways to produce colored) He eventually beat me to death after he played Kitaki, (A few people told me that I could have animated all three Inkmoths, then flashed on plating to the unblocked one after blocks when he just had two fliers. The problem with this lies in his Pridemage and Ghost Quarter.)
Game 3: I changed my sideboard by taking out Anti-Pod like Grafdigger's Cage and putting in Ancient Grudge. I started strong and whittled him down to 9 life. I was holding two Galvanic Blasts in hand when he topdecked a Worship with three creatures in play. He played a Loxodon Smiter, then I play Thoughtseize with him holding one card in hand. It was another Smiter. He proceeded to just beat me down with me trying to stall as long as I could to try to topdeck a Wear // Tear. I eventually succumbed to his army (He had Gavony Township as well), and lot.
1-2
The judges and the gathered crowd of about 12 said it was some of the best and most intense Magic they have ever seen.
Round time: slightly over two hours.

I ended up getting the top 8 playmat and tokens/points, but was a bit bummed I only won six packs.

# ? Aug 3, 2014 04:16

legoman727: Mar 13, 2010; by exmarx

Does anyone have a good G/W Hatebears list? I've been working on putting the deck together because I'm too poor for Fetches and I already have the Voices and stuff from the past couple of standards.

# ? Aug 3, 2014 04:41

suicidesteve: Jan 4, 2006; "Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.

legoman727 posted:

Does anyone have a good G/W Hatebears list? I've been working on putting the deck together because I'm too poor for Fetches and I already have the Voices and stuff from the past couple of standards.

Here's the one my friend plays to much success. I'm just missing a Noble Hierarch to finish mine, which is pretty close to his list. I'm pretty sure he's made some changes since this was posted, but it's close.

4 Aether Vial
3 Aven Mindcensor
4 Blade Splicer
4 Flickerwisp
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Restoration Angel
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Path to Exile
1 Selesnya Charm
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Horizon Canopy
2 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Temple Garden

Sideboard
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Choke
2 Mark of Asylum
1 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege

# ? Aug 3, 2014 04:54

jassi007: Aug 9, 2006; mmmmm.. burger...

Valicious posted:

Incoming Magic talk:

Just got back from Modern State Championships. I took the standard Affinity deck playing a 2/2 Master of Etherium/Etched Champion split, 3 Thoughtcasts, 4 Galvanic Blasts.

Round 1: Ad Nauseam
He got his combo game 1 the turn before I would swing for lethal. I Thoughtseized a Simian Spirit Guide that he would've used to go off the next turn, then I swung for lethal. In game 3 he just didn't draw the right cards, and I bashed face.
2-1

Round 2: Goblin Guide/Burn
Girl was very new to Modern. She threw a bunch of burn spells to my face in game 1, but I outraced her. She got me down to 7 life in game 2 througb a combination of burn spells a Goblin Guides. I saw she had no cards in hand, so I paid 2 life to cast a Vault Skirge and an Etched Champion. She didn't draw a burn spell, so I suited up my Skirge with two Platings and swung to stabalize. I got lethal the next turn.
2-0

Round 3: American Control
I don't remember too much of this round. I got the nut draw in game 1 and won easily, then got Spellskite and a Plated Champion swinging to chop him down game 2.
2-0

Round 4:
I don't remember what I played.
2-0

Round 5: UW Control
Game 1 was close in that it was a race between my Plated Chamion and his Celestial Colonade. I drew a Galvanic Blast and killed his Colonade when it tried to attack. I equipped a second Plating on my Champion, then tried to cast another Champion. He nodded, we proceeded to Combat, and I swung for lethal with my Double Plated Champion. After counting up damage and realizing it was lethal, he announced he actually had a response to me casting the Champion and cracked a fetch to Remand it. I would've called Judge!, but the attack was still lethal anyways so I didn't bother.
In game 2 he got mana screwed with two Verdicts in hands. I figured he had a wrath, but I just played as fast as I could and killed him.
2-0

Round 6: We decided to draw.

cut to top 8, I'm top seed.

Round 1: I was playing against some GW rogue deck.
I just killed him with an explosive start in game 1. The downside was I didn't see more than 33 land and a Qasali Pridemage and a Birds of Paradise.. I assumed (incorrectly) he was playing Pod.
Game 2: I started out fast enough by beating him down to high single-digits and 5 poison. He plays a Stony Silence and flashes in an Aven Mindcensorto trade with one of my attackers. (He also has a Qasali Pridemage just sitting there.) I topdeck a Wear // Tear and jam it down to blow up the Silence. He's down to low single-digits by this point when he plays a Worship. I'm trying to survive until I can draw my second Wear // Tear or get in for poison. (It should be noted he has a Ghost Quarter in play.) The game progresses and he has played another Avwn Mindcensor and a [card]Linvala, Keeper of Silence, as well as equipped them with Sword of Fire and Ice and Sword of War and Peace respectively. I had 3 Inkmoths, two Ravagers, and two Platings out. (as well as a ton of land and ways to produce colored) He eventually beat me to death after he played Kitaki, (A few people told me that I could have animated all three Inkmoths, then flashed on plating to the unblocked one after blocks when he just had two fliers. The problem with this lies in his Pridemage and Ghost Quarter.)
Game 3: I changed my sideboard by taking out Anti-Pod like Grafdigger's Cage and putting in Ancient Grudge. I started strong and whittled him down to 9 life. I was holding two Galvanic Blasts in hand when he topdecked a Worship with three creatures in play. He played a Loxodon Smiter, then I play Thoughtseize with him holding one card in hand. It was another Smiter. He proceeded to just beat me down with me trying to stall as long as I could to try to topdeck a Wear // Tear. I eventually succumbed to his army (He had Gavony Township as well), and lot.
1-2
The judges and the gathered crowd of about 12 said it was some of the best and most intense Magic they have ever seen.
Round time: slightly over two hours.

I ended up getting the top 8 playmat and tokens/points, but was a bit bummed I only won six packs.

You beat control twice. That is a bad match up for affinity. Don't feel bad at all. Great job.

# ? Aug 3, 2014 06:12

Valicious: Aug 16, 2010

jassi007 posted:

You beat control twice. That is a bad match up for affinity. Don't feel bad at all. Great job.

I'm taking a roadtrip next week, and I scheduled an overnight stop in Tulsa, OK just so I can play in the PTQ. I'll be taking the same deck there as well.

Sideboarding question: Do people try and leave Thoughtcasts in after board to try and draw into anti-hate? If I had a Thoughtcast or two in that top 8 game, I would've drawn into my Wear // Tear and blown up his Worship and won.

# ? Aug 3, 2014 07:01

jassi007: Aug 9, 2006; mmmmm.. burger...

Valicious posted:

I'm taking a roadtrip next week, and I scheduled an overnight stop in Tulsa, OK just so I can play in the PTQ. I'll be taking the same deck there as well.

Sideboarding question: Do people try and leave Thoughtcasts in after board to try and draw into anti-hate? If I had a Thoughtcast or two in that top 8 game, I would've drawn into my Wear // Tear and blown up his Worship and won.

Against such a weird deck I'm not sure what to suggest. That deck sounds a lot like that stupid loving Travis Woo Brew. Probably take out some slower things like a couple pests, an overseer, add wear/tears and some thoughtseizes. Did he run a lot of creatures? Blast is always up for removal if you don't need removal spells. It can get you there occasionally but think of it more like a doom blade than a burn spell.

# ? Aug 3, 2014 13:00

Molybdenum: Jun 25, 2007; Melting Point ~2622C

Sounds like hate bears to me. I assume with a top 8 win your official place was 3/4. 6 packs and a playmat does seem like weak prize support considering you had 6 actual match wins plus a draw.

# ? Aug 3, 2014 13:52

ungulateman: Apr 18, 2012; pretentious fuckwit who isn't half as literate or insightful or clever as he thinks he is

I might just be bad and dumb, but I actually slightly prefer Qasali Pridemage mainboard over Scavenging Ooze. Ooze has a significant advantage in grindier games, but being able to blow up Splinter Twin, Plating, Courser of Kruphix, etc. is invaluable in a deck designed to deny your opponents' game plan as much as Hatebears does. It also interacts better with Wilt-Leaf Liege (lol).

Now let me tell you about Noble Hierarch and how its price tag is ~ruining Modern forever~...

:goonsay:

# ? Aug 3, 2014 15:07

Valicious: Aug 16, 2010

jassi007 posted:

Against such a weird deck I'm not sure what to suggest. That deck sounds a lot like that stupid loving Travis Woo Brew. Probably take out some slower things like a couple pests, an overseer, add wear/tears and some thoughtseizes. Did he run a lot of creatures? Blast is always up for removal if you don't need removal spells. It can get you there occasionally but think of it more like a doom blade than a burn spell.

The cards of his that I remember: Worship, Sword of FaI, Sword of WaP, Aven Mindcensor, Linvala, Loxodon Smiters, Path to Exile, Qasali Pridemage, Tectonic Edge, Horizon Canopy, Ghost Quarter, Engineered Explosives. It's hard to get rid of all his creatures when he is playing so many more, and then equipping them with Swords.

# ? Aug 3, 2014 16:16

DAD LOST MY IPOD: Feb 3, 2012; Fats Dominar is on the case

Valicious posted:

Incoming Magic talk:

Just got back from Modern State Championships. I took the standard Affinity deck playing a 2/2 Master of Etherium/Etched Champion split, 3 Thoughtcasts, 4 Galvanic Blasts.

Round 1: Ad Nauseam
He got his combo game 1 the turn before I would swing for lethal. I Thoughtseized a Simian Spirit Guide that he would've used to go off the next turn, then I swung for lethal. In game 3 he just didn't draw the right cards, and I bashed face.
2-1

Round 2: Goblin Guide/Burn
Girl was very new to Modern. She threw a bunch of burn spells to my face in game 1, but I outraced her. She got me down to 7 life in game 2 througb a combination of burn spells a Goblin Guides. I saw she had no cards in hand, so I paid 2 life to cast a Vault Skirge and an Etched Champion. She didn't draw a burn spell, so I suited up my Skirge with two Platings and swung to stabalize. I got lethal the next turn.
2-0

Round 3: American Control
I don't remember too much of this round. I got the nut draw in game 1 and won easily, then got Spellskite and a Plated Champion swinging to chop him down game 2.
2-0

Round 4:
I don't remember what I played.
2-0

Round 5: UW Control
Game 1 was close in that it was a race between my Plated Chamion and his Celestial Colonade. I drew a Galvanic Blast and killed his Colonade when it tried to attack. I equipped a second Plating on my Champion, then tried to cast another Champion. He nodded, we proceeded to Combat, and I swung for lethal with my Double Plated Champion. After counting up damage and realizing it was lethal, he announced he actually had a response to me casting the Champion and cracked a fetch to Remand it. I would've called Judge!, but the attack was still lethal anyways so I didn't bother.
In game 2 he got mana screwed with two Verdicts in hands. I figured he had a wrath, but I just played as fast as I could and killed him.
2-0

Round 6: We decided to draw.

cut to top 8, I'm top seed.

Round 1: I was playing against some GW rogue deck.
I just killed him with an explosive start in game 1. The downside was I didn't see more than 33 land and a Qasali Pridemage and a Birds of Paradise.. I assumed (incorrectly) he was playing Pod.
Game 2: I started out fast enough by beating him down to high single-digits and 5 poison. He plays a Stony Silence and flashes in an Aven Mindcensorto trade with one of my attackers. (He also has a Qasali Pridemage just sitting there.) I topdeck a Wear // Tear and jam it down to blow up the Silence. He's down to low single-digits by this point when he plays a Worship. I'm trying to survive until I can draw my second Wear // Tear or get in for poison. (It should be noted he has a Ghost Quarter in play.) The game progresses and he has played another Avwn Mindcensor and a [card]Linvala, Keeper of Silence, as well as equipped them with Sword of Fire and Ice and Sword of War and Peace respectively. I had 3 Inkmoths, two Ravagers, and two Platings out. (as well as a ton of land and ways to produce colored) He eventually beat me to death after he played Kitaki, (A few people told me that I could have animated all three Inkmoths, then flashed on plating to the unblocked one after blocks when he just had two fliers. The problem with this lies in his Pridemage and Ghost Quarter.)
Game 3: I changed my sideboard by taking out Anti-Pod like Grafdigger's Cage and putting in Ancient Grudge. I started strong and whittled him down to 9 life. I was holding two Galvanic Blasts in hand when he topdecked a Worship with three creatures in play. He played a Loxodon Smiter, then I play Thoughtseize with him holding one card in hand. It was another Smiter. He proceeded to just beat me down with me trying to stall as long as I could to try to topdeck a Wear // Tear. I eventually succumbed to his army (He had Gavony Township as well), and lot.
1-2
The judges and the gathered crowd of about 12 said it was some of the best and most intense Magic they have ever seen.
Round time: slightly over two hours.

I ended up getting the top 8 playmat and tokens/points, but was a bit bummed I only won six packs.

I'd love to see your Affinity decklist (or at least sideboard). My Affinity brew is feeling kinda dated; my board still has 4x Canonist to fight Storm and its variants, which don't really dominate the metagame. I was thinking of dropping two for Wear/Tear or Tormod's Crypt or SOMETHING. Also I'm running Etched Champion as a four-of and Steel Overseer as a 1-of, which I'm sure I had a good reason for but I can't think of it now.

# ? Aug 3, 2014 16:27

Boco_T: Mar 12, 2003; la calaca tilica y flaca

Yeah, it's this one: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/220191-gw-hatebears

# ? Aug 3, 2014 16:27

jassi007: Aug 9, 2006; mmmmm.. burger...

Valicious posted:

The cards of his that I remember: Worship, Sword of FaI, Sword of WaP, Aven Mindcensor, Linvala, Loxodon Smiters, Path to Exile, Qasali Pridemage, Tectonic Edge, Horizon Canopy, Ghost Quarter, Engineered Explosives. It's hard to get rid of all his creatures when he is playing so many more, and then equipping them with Swords.

Sounds like GW hatebears with some weird choices like Worship. Ideally you just thoughtseize, spell pierce or hold wear//tear for the worship and/or posion him out. Beatdown fast and pray to dodge the stony silence. That match sounds pretty rough without nut draws, having to accept beats by a sword'd up dude is tough.

# ? Aug 3, 2014 16:40

Valicious: Aug 16, 2010

Boco_T posted:

Yeah, it's this one: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/220191-gw-hatebears

I've faced GW Hatebears a lot, just never with Worship.

Decklist:

4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
2 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
4 Signal Pest
2 Master of Etherium
2 Etched Champion
4 Cranial Plating
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Glimmervoid
1 Island
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Thoughtcast
4 Galvanic Blast
3 Steel Overseer
SB: 1 Torpor Orb
SB: 2 Spellskite
SB: 1 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Whipflare
SB: 1 Illness in the Ranks
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 1 Etched Champion
SB: 1 Dismember

# ? Aug 3, 2014 16:42

jassi007: Aug 9, 2006; mmmmm.. burger...

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

I'd love to see your Affinity decklist (or at least sideboard). My Affinity brew is feeling kinda dated; my board still has 4x Canonist to fight Storm and its variants, which don't really dominate the metagame. I was thinking of dropping two for Wear/Tear or Tormod's Crypt or SOMETHING. Also I'm running Etched Champion as a four-of and Steel Overseer as a 1-of, which I'm sure I had a good reason for but I can't think of it now.

That list is pretty out of date. Here is the stock affinity list

3 glimmervoid
4 inkmoth nexus
4 blinkmoth nexus
4 darksteel citadel
1 basic land (usually island)

4 arcbound ravager
4 ornithopter
4 signal pest
4 vault skirge
3 steel overseer
2-3 memnite
2-4 etched champion
1-2 master of etherium

4 cranial plating
4 mox opal
4 springleaf drum
6-8 flex spots for colored spells. usually galvanic blast & thoughtcast

sideboard can vary a lot depending on what meta.

usually 2-4 thoughtseize
0-2 spell pierce
2-4 artifact hate for mirrors some combo of ancient grudge and/or wear//tear

Here is my current list http://deckbox.org/sets/566415

# ? Aug 3, 2014 16:44

Angry Grimace: Jul 29, 2010; ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.

Guys, I need some help with a sideboard for Modern.

I'm running U/B Faeries with 4 Spellstutter Sprite, 3 Mistbind Clique, 3 Scion of Oona and 2 Vendilion Clique. Usually just a singleton Doom Blade + 5 discard and a 2/3 Spell Snare, Mana Leak split.

I have no clue what I should be boarding in and out beyond the 1 Hurkyl's Recall I happen to own.

# ? Aug 3, 2014 17:32

jassi007: Aug 9, 2006; mmmmm.. burger...

Angry Grimace posted:

Guys, I need some help with a sideboard for Modern.

I'm running U/B Faeries with 4 Spellstutter Sprite, 3 Mistbind Clique, 3 Scion of Oona and 2 Vendilion Clique. Usually just a singleton Doom Blade + 5 discard and a 2/3 Spell Snare, Mana Leak split.

I have no clue what I should be boarding in and out beyond the 1 Hurkyl's Recall I happen to own.

You've listed 23 cards in a 60 card deck. The other 37 aren't land right? Post your whole decklist and sideboard if you want feedback please.

4 spellstutter
3 mistbind
3 scion
2 vclique
1 doomblade
3 thoughtseize
2 iok
2 spell snare
3 mana leak

# ? Aug 3, 2014 17:47

Molybdenum: Jun 25, 2007; Melting Point ~2622C

U/b sideboard cards:
Slaughter pact
Shadow of doubt
Dismember / sudden death
Vedalken shackles
Mind break trap
Steel sabotage
Hibernation
Extirpate / surgical extraction

Just depends on your meta.

My store is 3 tron players, 2 scapeshift, 3 twin / american control, 1 junk, 1 zoo, 1 bogles, 1 8rack, 1 standard deck, 1 infect, 1 b/w tokens (sometimes).

I'm bringing skred red with a ponza focus. Simian spirit guide, Crack the earth, boom / bust, koth and Chandra pyromaster.

Someone got 11th at the latest modern gp with it. Though my build is probably bad compared to that one.

# ? Aug 3, 2014 18:34

Angry Grimace: Jul 29, 2010; ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.

Full list is:

4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Scion of Oona
3 Mistbind Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage

4 Bitterblossom

2 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
1 Doom Blade
2 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Cryptic Command
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

25 Lands (2 of which are Creeping Tar pit, the rest are either basics or duals of various types)

The sideboard is basically nothing at the moment beyond more Doom Blades, an extra V. Clique (which I've never actually boarded in), a Hurkyl's Recall and a random Whip of Erebos that I've never used.

# ? Aug 3, 2014 18:51

tallkidwithglasses: Feb 7, 2006

I play Maverick because I make poor choices. Here is my decklist:

4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Sprite
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
4 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Gavony Township
2 Forest
2 Plains

SB: 4 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 4 Choke
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg

4 undetermined SB slots- maybe RIP and a Bojuka Bog? I'm kind of at the point where I am willing to write off Sneak and Show as being so difficult to win as to not even really bother boarding specifically against it, but I've seen lists with a miser's Ashen Rider or something to try and drop in when they show. Other than that, I don't feel like I have a truly awful matchup, since the Thalia/Wasteland game does so much work against most of the other unfair decks and at least gives me a window, while I can pretty solidly dominate the fair matchups just by virtue of being so good at combat. Is True Name Nemesis something I should be afraid of/plan for? I really haven't had to go up against someone going all-in on it, so I'm not sure if it's something I should be super afraid of? Help me play Legacy.

As a bit of an add-on- I've seen "dark maverick" lists that splash black for hand disruption and there's a bant aggro list that is basically a maverick shell with TNN+brainstorm+FoW+daze jammed in, but neither of those get the saucy mana base that regular vanilla maverick gets- are they worth exploring?

# ? Aug 4, 2014 16:05

Johnny Five-Jaces: Jan 21, 2009

I had a comedy post typed up where I make suggested changes except the changes make it so you aren't playing Maverick anymore.

I mean... it's fine? As a combo player I'm never excited to see a Spirit of the Labyrinth, and that holds a sword pretty well. I'm not sure what sort of sick tech those Scryb Sprites are but I'd probably drop them for another Stoneforge. Some RIPs in the sideboard seem good, and if you go the RIP/Spirit path Enlightened tutor packages like you find in D&T also seem fine. I don't play Maverick so I'm not sure if KotR tutoring for Bojuka Bog is fast enough. Seems like it definitely is not against Reanimator.

Your Sneak and Show matchup should be pretty solid. Thalia is a problem for them, Gaddock Teeg shuts off Sneak Attack, and Karakas + O-rings in the board means you can kill their things dead. Four chokes, while spicy, is probably 1 or 2 too many.

# ? Aug 4, 2014 16:25

BXCX: Feb 17, 2012; not even in a bad way

Two Modern Questions:

1: Is Mindbreak Trap an acceptable sideboard card against storm and KCI Eggs? Storm is pretty much not a thing locally but the one KCI Eggs has been tearing up the competition for the last month because I think nobody's trying to adapt for him which works out great for everyone except for the 4 opponents he goes up against.

2: Are Swords too slow for serious Modern Play? GBx, URw, and Pod are the most common decks so I'd like the protection that Fire and Ice or Light and Shadow bring, but I'm running Merfolk or Stompy and they don't seem to slot in there all that well. .

# ? Aug 4, 2014 16:36

Molybdenum: Jun 25, 2007; Melting Point ~2622C

Relic slows/stops storm and probably kci too. I don't know what you would mind break vs. Kci.

Swords are good but not too many decks run them. Merfolk seems like a good fit for them.

# ? Aug 4, 2014 16:40

jassi007: Aug 9, 2006; mmmmm.. burger...

BXCX posted:

Two Modern Questions:

1: Is Mindbreak Trap an acceptable sideboard card against storm and KCI Eggs? Storm is pretty much not a thing locally but the one KCI Eggs has been tearing up the competition for the last month because I think nobody's trying to adapt for him which works out great for everyone except for the 4 opponents he goes up against.

2: Are Swords too slow for serious Modern Play? GBx, URw, and Pod are the most common decks so I'd like the protection that Fire and Ice or Light and Shadow bring, but I'm running Merfolk or Stompy and they don't seem to slot in there all that well. .

Mindbreak is ok for some decks if your weak to that. It doesn't see a lot of play.

Swords only work in a few decks, mainly BW tokens and UB Faeries. If your deck has 1/1's as your win-con but you are playing a grindy attrition based deck, than you can run 1 or maybe 2 swords and after your opponent is ground down equip your weenie with it to accelerate your clock. I don't think merfolk is the deck for it, lords are swords and can be vialed in more or less. Your not playing attrition or a grindier gameplan, and taking 1 or 2 turns off to drop and equip a sword is not in your favor.

# ? Aug 4, 2014 16:43

L0cke17: Nov 29, 2013

tallkidwithglasses posted:

I play Maverick because I make poor choices. Here is my decklist:

4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Sprite
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
4 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Gavony Township
2 Forest
2 Plains

SB: 4 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 4 Choke
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg

4 undetermined SB slots- maybe RIP and a Bojuka Bog? I'm kind of at the point where I am willing to write off Sneak and Show as being so difficult to win as to not even really bother boarding specifically against it, but I've seen lists with a miser's Ashen Rider or something to try and drop in when they show. Other than that, I don't feel like I have a truly awful matchup, since the Thalia/Wasteland game does so much work against most of the other unfair decks and at least gives me a window, while I can pretty solidly dominate the fair matchups just by virtue of being so good at combat. Is True Name Nemesis something I should be afraid of/plan for? I really haven't had to go up against someone going all-in on it, so I'm not sure if it's something I should be super afraid of? Help me play Legacy.

As a bit of an add-on- I've seen "dark maverick" lists that splash black for hand disruption and there's a bant aggro list that is basically a maverick shell with TNN+brainstorm+FoW+daze jammed in, but neither of those get the saucy mana base that regular vanilla maverick gets- are they worth exploring?

First off question: the Scryb Sprite is supposed to be a Scryb ranger correct? I don't think its the best plan to board in RIP in Maverick, you need to have large Knights to finish off the game quickly. Bog is decent sideboard, and you could probably get away with Bog and 1-2 Tormod's Crypt.

A friend of mine has been playing only Maverick for the last 2 years, and he's tried the Bant and Junk lists. Bant is fun, but not as amazing as you would think. The Junk list is actually pretty good, you get Deathrites, some discard out of the board, and Zealous Persecution and Lingering souls. The Junk list is a lot better against Miracles and Derp-blade than the GW list is. Regardless of which list you play, one of the best sideboard cards you can bring in against combo is Phyrexian Revoker. Against Storm, you can name LED and Lotus Petal. Against Sneak and Show you can drop it in off S&T and name Griselbrand or Sneak Attack depending on what they drop. You can also drop it early and preemptively name something, and not slow down your clock. Also Ethersworn Canonist is a great card to have a couple of in the board.

# ? Aug 4, 2014 17:18

BXCX: Feb 17, 2012; not even in a bad way

Molybdenum posted:

Relic slows/stops storm and probably kci too. I don't know what you would mind break vs. Kci.

Swords are good but not too many decks run them. Merfolk seems like a good fit for them.

The wincon is usually a singleton Banefire or Pyrite Spellbomb so locking them out of that means they're suddenly locked into decking as their only wincon unless they happen to be running the Tezzeret version.

jassi007 posted:

Mindbreak is ok for some decks if your weak to that. It doesn't see a lot of play.

Swords only work in a few decks, mainly BW tokens and UB Faeries. If your deck has 1/1's as your win-con but you are playing a grindy attrition based deck, than you can run 1 or maybe 2 swords and after your opponent is ground down equip your weenie with it to accelerate your clock. I don't think merfolk is the deck for it, lords are swords and can be vialed in more or less. Your not playing attrition or a grindier gameplan, and taking 1 or 2 turns off to drop and equip a sword is not in your favor.

Yeah, I'm thinking they're too slow and die themselves to one of the main cards I'd like to get around, Abrupt Decay, it would be nice to get some pro red, white, or black in somewhere though. I'm working on tweaking my decks to fit the local meta and I think the two decks I have are evenly positioned given that I finish at about the same standings from week to week. Sideboard stuff like Choke, Raking Canopy, and Torpor Orb have been great in Stompy and Shadow of Doubt, Hibernation, and Grafdigger's Cage have been good in Merfolk but they could both use a little more game against Twin and GBx.

# ? Aug 4, 2014 17:57

tallkidwithglasses: Feb 7, 2006

L0cke17 posted:

First off question: the Scryb Sprite is supposed to be a Scryb ranger correct? I don't think its the best plan to board in RIP in Maverick, you need to have large Knights to finish off the game quickly. Bog is decent sideboard, and you could probably get away with Bog and 1-2 Tormod's Crypt.

A friend of mine has been playing only Maverick for the last 2 years, and he's tried the Bant and Junk lists. Bant is fun, but not as amazing as you would think. The Junk list is actually pretty good, you get Deathrites, some discard out of the board, and Zealous Persecution and Lingering souls. The Junk list is a lot better against Miracles and Derp-blade than the GW list is. Regardless of which list you play, one of the best sideboard cards you can bring in against combo is Phyrexian Revoker. Against Storm, you can name LED and Lotus Petal. Against Sneak and Show you can drop it in off S&T and name Griselbrand or Sneak Attack depending on what they drop. You can also drop it early and preemptively name something, and not slow down your clock. Also Ethersworn Canonist is a great card to have a couple of in the board.

Yeah, scryb sprite is scryb ranger :shobon:

Spirit of the Labyrinth seems perfect actually. Maybe something like this for a sideboard?

3x Choke
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Qasali Pridemage
3x Spirit of the Labyrinth
3x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Tormod's Crypt

That actually seems really balanced.

# ? Aug 4, 2014 17:59

L0cke17: Nov 29, 2013

tallkidwithglasses posted:

Yeah, scryb sprite is scryb ranger

Spirit of the Labyrinth seems perfect actually. Maybe something like this for a sideboard?

3x Choke
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Qasali Pridemage
3x Spirit of the Labyrinth
3x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Tormod's Crypt

That actually seems really balanced.

I would also go through and for every common matchup see whether the cards you want to board out is about the same number as the cards you want to board in. If you want to bring in more cards than you have bad cards you want to take out, then maybe you don't need to have as many sideboard slots dedicated to those cards. For example: against non-sneak and show combo you probably have 10ish cards that are irrelevant, (Mom, Maze if Ith, StP, and Sigarda), and only 8 cards you really want to bring in (Spirit, Teeg, Revoker, Pridemage).

I'm not a huge fan of Choke as a card, but perhaps play an Enlightened Tutor package in the board? Like 3 Enlightened Tutor, 1 Choke, 2 Spirit of the Labyrinth, 2 Revoker, 1 Ethersworn Canonist(this man is one of your best tools you can have), instead of the 3/3/3 split of hate cards you have now. It gives you an effective 2 extra copies of the hatebear you need right then, and if you're boarding out Moms it gives you something else to do turn one. This will also make it easier to have enough good cards to bring in to replace your awful cards in certain matchups, but the difference isn't super significant, its just marginal upgrades and can make you slightly slower, in exchange for slightly more consistent access to your hate cards.

# ? Aug 4, 2014 18:16

Johnny Five-Jaces: Jan 21, 2009

L0cke17 posted:

I don't think its the best plan to board in RIP in Maverick, you need to have large Knights to finish off the game quickly.

Is there merit to having RIP for the matchups where it just wins the game? Does such a matchup even really exist? I do not Maverick (or anything attacking meaningfully with creatures, lol) but I understand the general idea of disruption + a decent clock is your plan against aggro. I've watched a few games of maverick and I see it winning at a reasonable pace with just suited up dorks, since in the combo matchups they're basically unopposed until the turn the combo player wins the game.

# ? Aug 4, 2014 18:16

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

So this is the absolute worst time of year to buy modern staples, right?

# ? Aug 4, 2014 18:16

Tonetta: Jul 9, 2013; look mother look at ME MOTHER MOTHER I AM A HOMESTIXK NOW

**methodically removes and eats own clothes*

mcmagic posted:

So this is the absolute worst time of year to buy modern staples, right?

this is the lowest modern staples have been since january, so it's probably okay or the market is slowly crashing

scg recently tried to explain it in a couple different articles is that with all the large tourneys, seasons are irrelevant when it comes to pricing

# ? Aug 4, 2014 18:22

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Tonetta posted:

this is the lowest modern staples have been since january, so it's probably okay or the market is slowly crashing

scg recently tried to explain it in a couple different articles is that with all the large tourneys, seasons are irrelevant when it comes to pricing

Really? I'm looking at Bob's and Goyfs and they are as high as ever...

# ? Aug 4, 2014 18:26

Cernunnos: Sep 2, 2011; ppbbbbttttthhhhh~

mcmagic posted:

Really? I'm looking at Bob's and Goyfs and they are as high as ever...

Those aren't going to go down much, if at all, until they get reprinted. Or re-reprinted in the case of Goyf.

# ? Aug 4, 2014 18:27

Tonetta: Jul 9, 2013; look mother look at ME MOTHER MOTHER I AM A HOMESTIXK NOW

**methodically removes and eats own clothes*

mcmagic posted:

Really? I'm looking at Bob's and Goyfs and they are as high as ever...

bobs are safe, for a good long time

goyfs will be reprinted at some point, who knows when so buy at your own risk

# ? Aug 4, 2014 18:32

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Tonetta posted:

bobs are safe, for a good long time

goyfs will be reprinted at some point, who knows when so buy at your own risk

I mean Goyf went up after the reprint in MM so I doubt it's going down any time soon. I'm just wondering if instead of 170, it will be like 150 after the season... but who knows.

# ? Aug 4, 2014 18:38

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# ? May 11, 2024 21:33

tallkidwithglasses: Feb 7, 2006

L0cke17 posted:

I would also go through and for every common matchup see whether the cards you want to board out is about the same number as the cards you want to board in. If you want to bring in more cards than you have bad cards you want to take out, then maybe you don't need to have as many sideboard slots dedicated to those cards. For example: against non-sneak and show combo you probably have 10ish cards that are irrelevant, (Mom, Maze if Ith, StP, and Sigarda), and only 8 cards you really want to bring in (Spirit, Teeg, Revoker, Pridemage).

I'm not a huge fan of Choke as a card, but perhaps play an Enlightened Tutor package in the board? Like 3 Enlightened Tutor, 1 Choke, 2 Spirit of the Labyrinth, 2 Revoker, 1 Ethersworn Canonist(this man is one of your best tools you can have), instead of the 3/3/3 split of hate cards you have now. It gives you an effective 2 extra copies of the hatebear you need right then, and if you're boarding out Moms it gives you something else to do turn one. This will also make it easier to have enough good cards to bring in to replace your awful cards in certain matchups, but the difference isn't super significant, its just marginal upgrades and can make you slightly slower, in exchange for slightly more consistent access to your hate cards.

I've tried the e tutor package in the past, albeit not in the configuration you're suggesting- I disliked it because the set up cost is not insignificant, and drawing an e tutor can be really brutal when you actually want a hate piece RIGHT NOW. It just seems like it makes me much slower than you're saying it would, but I do really like the versatility and the deck does have a million good tutor targets.

What's wrong with Choke? I actually haven't played with it yet but it seems like it could be great against a ton of different decks- I'd be boarding it in against the various delver decks and miracles mostly but it just seems like its super strong in conjunction with the basic Maverick plan of Thalia+wastelands forever.

# ? Aug 4, 2014 18:49

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > MtG Eternal Thread - Swimming in a pool of Tarmogoyfs

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