why don't people just abort every down syndrome baby

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > General Bullshit > why don't people just abort every down syndrome baby

«‹›24 »

sincx: Jul 13, 2012; furiously masturbating to anime titties

What are the chances this is a long con and we're all getting trolled?

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:51

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 9, 2024 11:44

Hometown Slime Queen: Oct 26, 2004; the GOAT

sincx posted:

What are the chances this is a long con and we're all getting trolled?

Would actually be good if this is the case

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:54

LethalGeek: Nov 4, 2009

sincx posted:

What are the chances this is a long con and we're all getting trolled?

People are very hardwired to spread their genes and even in the face of technology that tells them their offspring is going to be a complete dead end that little voice in their head screams at them MAKE CHILDREN and here we are.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 22:16

Sestze: Jun 6, 2004; Cybernetic Crumb

sincx posted:

What are the chances this is a long con and we're all getting trolled?

The long con is the idea that therattle is maintaining his happiness by having the DS child with his wife, assuming the alternative (divorcing and hitting up a bunch of chicks on OKCupid) is infinitely worse.

Oddly enough he'd still be getting hosed by a retard with either decision that he'd make.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 22:17

EmperorFritoBandito: Aug 7, 2010; by exmarx

therattle posted:

She didn't feel that she could face an abortion just because the child was flawed. She believes that all people, even if 'broken", "worthless" and "potatoes", have value, can love, and be loved. I think she's right. If I had said that I simply couldn't bring myself to be the father to a disabled child, she probably would have terminated the pregnancy (and we probably would have been divorced and miserable).

Therapy would've done your relationship better than the option you went with instead.

(Holy poo poo that new av.)

# ? Aug 5, 2014 22:54

F Stop Fitzgerald: Dec 12, 2010

EmperorFritoBandito posted:

(Holy poo poo that new av.)

hahahahahah

# ? Aug 5, 2014 22:57

Kyrie eleison: Jan 26, 2013; by Ralp

Who What Now posted:

I already told you, my brother-in-law is retarded. And he is among the highest-echelons of capability. He can barely read, cannot write except for the most basic of sentences and his own name, can only drive because he went through considerable effort to memorize road signs (he can only drive to and from work, and to a few other stops such as gas station or fast food places. He is literally incapable of navigating anywhere that he is not first driven to many dozens of times first to memorize the route) and holds down a job gathering carts. He has no opinions save those that he overhears and has no goals beyond what he's told to strive for.

He could, perhaps, live on his own in a small trailer or apartment if his parents or siblings checked in on him at least every other day. But he cannot manage his own finances, he cannot plan for his own future. He cannot exist and survive without someone leading him from point A to point B first.

What you didn't bother to learn is that me and my wife grew up together. I've known her for as far back as I have memories, back to before elementary school. And this included her whole family and her brother. There has never not been a time when I was not intimately familiar with the concept, even as young as three, that the retarded were not like everyone else. Since then I have volunteered with the Special Olympics a few times, purely for selfish reasons, and have seen dozens and more of the mentally handicapped.

That's where I get my expertise from. Not from some trumped up biased study that set up the questions to get an answer, but through a life-time of experience. And I'll say it again and again and again and again.

The retarded cannot understand long-term happiness the same way normal people do. I simply have never met any mentally handicapped person that can accurately gauge the past, present, and future the same way a normal person can, and so I can say with certainty that they cannot answer the questions in the study in the way the study tries to present itself. The study does not, and cannot, ask retarded individuals about their current overall happiness or projected happiness. And indeed it goes out of its way not to. But it presents its findings in a way that imply such.

Your study is poo poo, your justifications for having a potato-child are poo poo. You have no idea what you have gotten yourself into, and your marriage, your family, your community, and most of all the child you brought into this world are going to suffer immensely because of your choice.

Is that good enough for you, you cowardly twat?

this might surprise you but you are not the only person to interact with the mentally ill and many of us view them as human beings deserving of love

# ? Aug 5, 2014 23:05

pentyne: Nov 7, 2012

Melchior posted:

I hate to say it but there's a very good chance you didn't avoid this possibility and instead chose to kick it down the road. Not making GBS threads on you but from how you framed this infers 'well if i dont have this kid i'll get a divorce' and that isn't a decision made with a clear head.

Even if she was pregnant with a child that didn't have Downs and she threatened to divorce you if you wanted her to have an abortion a rational response would be "Don't force me into this by playing games with a human life".

Plus, what if she has pregnant with one of those babies that are born with no brain? Would she still carry it to term? Because all concerns with Downs aside the obsessive need to birth a child that from the earliest stages science can tell you will live a difficult, if not horrifically complicated life and possibly die in a few years is not a healthy attitude.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 23:06

LethalGeek: Nov 4, 2009

Kyrie eleison posted:

this might surprise you but you are not the only person to interact with the mentally ill and many of us view them as human beings deserving of love

I love my dog and care for him but ultimately I can keep him under control and he's not a drain on my existence.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 23:10

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

There is no point in arguing with people who have such appalling attitudes. A lot of you posters absolutely disgust me. I don't need to be exposed to this degree of bigotry, or keep fanning the flames.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 23:20

Kyrie eleison: Jan 26, 2013; by Ralp

therattle posted:

There is no point in arguing with people who have such appalling attitudes. A lot of you posters absolutely disgust me. I don't need to be exposed to this degree of bigotry, or keep fanning the flames.

i support you! thanks for doing the right thing :thumbsup:

# ? Aug 5, 2014 23:22

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

Kyrie eleison posted:

this might surprise you but you are not the only person to interact with the mentally ill and many of us view them as human beings deserving of love

I love my brother-in-law incredibly dearly, in fact closer than my own flesh and blood sister. But if I was able to, I would have advised my in-laws to abort him because even for all his positive attributes the pain, fear, apprehension, and all the other negative feelings surrounding him like a palpable miasma sadly outweigh that.

I don't say that because it feels good, but because quite honestly it's the truth. But I never had the opportunity to snuff that pain before it could seed like therattle could.

Also, don't you have some pedophiles to be ~~whoring out children to~~ apologizing for?

# ? Aug 5, 2014 23:29

Maoist Pussy: Feb 12, 2014; by Lowtax

Kyrie eleison posted:

this might surprise you but you are not the only person to interact with the mentally ill and many of us view them as human beings deserving of love

This is all rather transparently self-serving, isn't it?

BAZINGA!

# ? Aug 5, 2014 23:33

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

therattle posted:

There is no point in arguing with people who have such appalling attitudes. A lot of you posters absolutely disgust me. I don't need to be exposed to this degree of bigotry, or keep fanning the flames.

What, aren't you going to respond to me? Just because now you know that I have much more personal first-hand experience with the mentally disabled you're going to go to even more lengths to ignore me?

Don't be a coward, face up to your mistakes. You already hosed up severely by having the kid, so now you have to deal with it. But you should at least admit the reality of the situation instead of trying to weave this gossamer-thin veil of lies that your child is going to somehow be the one to beat the odds and live a normal life in spite of his disability. That's never, ever going to happen. You will have to hold his hand until the day you or he dies, every second of every single day. He's going to be a weight upon every relationship you ever have from here on out, both personal and professional. A huge portion of your life is going to be devoted to either personally caring for it, or paying others to care for it on your behalf. Just admit it, that's all we want.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 23:33

DEAD MAN'S SHOE: Nov 23, 2003; We will become evil and the stars will come alive

One weird trick to avoid empty nest syndrome, boring retirement... Marie Stopes hates it!!!

# ? Aug 5, 2014 23:44

pentyne: Nov 7, 2012

Who What Now posted:

Don't be a coward, face up to your mistakes. You already hosed up severely by having the kid, so now you have to deal with it.

At the very least, he should agree that letting his wife force him to accept the child or she'd divorce him was a really bad situation she put him in. In his own words "I could've pushed her, and now we'd be separated and miserable but without a child" and I can't think of any reason that's better then "my downs child is just as good as a normal child"

Plus, as passionately as he's arguing over this, at some level there must be a degree of resentment towards his wife for forcing him into a family situation he didn't want.

quote:

Our son has Down's. We found out during pregnancy and decided to go ahead. I initially didn't want to but am incredibly glad we did.

Actually, I think we would have felt miserable and guilty, but who knows if that's post-hoc rationalisation.

My wife didn't want to terminate, not because she was intent on passing our genes along but because the reality of termination was incredibly hard for her.

My initial justification for terminating was that proceeding wasn't the right thing for the child, but i then learned that most people with Downs do not have severe health issues (although they may)
We made our decision after extensive scans during pregnancy confirmed no major brain, heart, bowel or other abnormalities. These took place up until about week 18, at which point scans can detect quite a lot. I was almost hoping that the heart scan (the last of the big scans) would throw up a major defect, because then that would have been an inarguable reason to terminate, but it was all clear.

As parents of a child with Down's we bear the greatest burden of looking after him, probably to some degree into adulthood.

We appreciate that it will be hard. But it took me a long time in my life to realise that just because something is difficult doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. (In some ways, the most difficult things can be the most rewarding).

My son is 3 now.

What is also inarguable, despite best efforts or simply willful refusal to accept it, is that people with Downs are generally much happier than the general population

The inability of people with DS to care for themselves is overstated ITT

She didn't feel that she could face an abortion just because the child was flawed. She believes that all people, even if 'broken", "worthless" and "potatoes", have value, can love, and be loved. I think she's right. If I had said that I simply couldn't bring myself to be the father to a disabled child, she probably would have terminated the pregnancy (and we probably would have been divorced and miserable).

The whole "are people with DS happier" was in response to the line of argument that they are miserable. They aren't. I don't know why they aren't - people have advanced various reasons, which may or may not be right.

Some major things jump out at me.

- your constant pointing out how you wanting to abort the child but keep bowing to your wife's desires
- "Passing on our genes" uh, unless you're a dynastic royal family that's not really important
- This child of yours you keep touting as proof for why all nayasyers are horrible judgmental animals is 3? Hahaha, holy poo poo say the same thing again in 10/15/20 years when the reality of a Downs child settles in
- Proclaiming because some studies show Downs report higher levels of happiness its incontrovertible proof that they are happier. That's not how science works. Plenty of other posters have been more critical but you keep brushing off their arguments with "does it really matter"
- Repeating Chicken Soup for the Soul catchphrases "the most difficult things are the most rewarding"
- I left it out but you keep mentioning you live in Britain and both you and your wife are well off, so caring for him won't be an issue. Until it is. The way the Tories run the NHS I wouldn't plan on such a high level of care for the disabled in the next few decades.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 23:54

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

pentyne posted:

At the very least, he should agree that letting his wife force him to accept the child or she'd divorce him was a really bad situation she put him in. In his own words "I could've pushed her, and now we'd be separated and miserable but without a child" and I can't think of any reason that's better then "my downs child is just as good as a normal child"

Quite honestly I'd be shocked if rattle is still married in ten years time. Hell, I'd be shocked if he's married in five years time. In just a few short years his kid is going to start growing very rapidly in a physical sense, while growing at a much slower rate mentally. His physical strength even for a child is going to quickly outstrip his capacity to understand it. While he won't perhaps be strictly dangerous, a six year old without the capacity to understand limits can wreak quite a lot of property damage in very short time span.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 00:00

Lazyfire: Feb 4, 2006; God saves. Satan Invests

EmperorFritoBandito posted:

Therapy would've done your relationship better than the option you went with instead.

(Holy poo poo that new av.)

It should have really been punctuated with :saddowns:

# ? Aug 6, 2014 00:14

Zzulu: May 15, 2009; (â°ËvËâ°)

It's really easy to kill a retard

just sayin

# ? Aug 6, 2014 00:16

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Zzulu posted:

It's really easy to kill a retard

just sayin

time to madeleine mccann this kid.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 00:18

Hometown Slime Queen: Oct 26, 2004; the GOAT

pentyne posted:

At the very least, he should agree that letting his wife force him to accept the child or she'd divorce him was a really bad situation she put him in. In his own words "I could've pushed her, and now we'd be separated and miserable but without a child" and I can't think of any reason that's better then "my downs child is just as good as a normal child"

Plus, as passionately as he's arguing over this, at some level there must be a degree of resentment towards his wife for forcing him into a family situation he didn't want.

Some major things jump out at me.

- your constant pointing out how you wanting to abort the child but keep bowing to your wife's desires
- "Passing on our genes" uh, unless you're a dynastic royal family that's not really important
- This child of yours you keep touting as proof for why all nayasyers are horrible judgmental animals is 3? Hahaha, holy poo poo say the same thing again in 10/15/20 years when the reality of a Downs child settles in
- Proclaiming because some studies show Downs report higher levels of happiness its incontrovertible proof that they are happier. That's not how science works. Plenty of other posters have been more critical but you keep brushing off their arguments with "does it really matter"
- Repeating Chicken Soup for the Soul catchphrases "the most difficult things are the most rewarding"
- I left it out but you keep mentioning you live in Britain and both you and your wife are well off, so caring for him won't be an issue. Until it is. The way the Tories run the NHS I wouldn't plan on such a high level of care for the disabled in the next few decades.

Don't forget the gem about caring for him into adulthood 'to a degree'.

Which means they either expect he'll be in a group home already, institutionalized, being nannied by a caretaker, or maybe his downsbaby will be that miracle downsbaby who won't need constant supervision and checking-in. Oh wait maybe he read an article on the internet about that too because he clearly understands what he's gotten himself into, to the point where even the people who kinda-sorta supported him were like 'Wait, dude are you for real?'

Hahahaha who actually thinks that about their own downsbaby's care.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 00:23

Rated PG-34: Jul 1, 2004

Sarah Palin had a tard baby and she was a fine upstanding lady who was almost VP.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 00:31

Rated PG-34: Jul 1, 2004

pentyne posted:

- "Passing on our genes" uh, unless you're a dynastic royal family that's not really important

Not to mention his genes aren't going to go very far thanks to downies.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 00:36

Starving Autist: Oct 20, 2007; by Ralp

Rated PG-34 posted:

Not to mention his genes aren't going to go very far thanks to downies.

he can hook up with another downs and they can have a Double Down

# ? Aug 6, 2014 00:41

F Stop Fitzgerald: Dec 12, 2010

Ableist Kinkshamer posted:

he can hook up with another downs and they can have a Double Down

nah, God sterilizes them at birth

# ? Aug 6, 2014 00:56

vyst: Aug 25, 2009

There would be less troons and autistic kids if parents would HTFU and beat their kids and knock some sense into them.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 01:36

pentyne: Nov 7, 2012

Who What Now posted:

Quite honestly I'd be shocked if rattle is still married in ten years time. Hell, I'd be shocked if he's married in five years time. In just a few short years his kid is going to start growing very rapidly in a physical sense, while growing at a much slower rate mentally. His physical strength even for a child is going to quickly outstrip his capacity to understand it. While he won't perhaps be strictly dangerous, a six year old without the capacity to understand limits can wreak quite a lot of property damage in very short time span.

For someone coming in and getting extremely combative about Downs children and how they don't regret it one bit I expected their was kid in his teens. A 3 year old? Yeah, he's not living with the reality of a Downs child yet, but in a few years he will. Sooner or later all those reasons his wife desperately wanted a child (carry on genes, can't have more then one kid) are going to be overwhelmed with the responsibility attached to raising a Downs child.

rattle is really viewing the situation expecting the most positive outcome imaginable and if anything starts getting difficult or complex it will start to affect the marriage, especially how insistent he was to abort the child.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 01:54

Maoist Pussy: Feb 12, 2014; by Lowtax

What, precisely, is the point of "carrying on your genes" by birthing a mule?

# ? Aug 6, 2014 01:58

TEAYCHES: Jun 23, 2002

i came into this thread sympathetic to ppl raising their downs syndrome kid and leave understanding abortion is the best option in every detectable case

# ? Aug 6, 2014 02:00

Mnemosyne: Jun 11, 2002; There's no safe way to put a cat in a paper bag!!

I'm not sure if people are intentionally misquoting in an attempt to goad him into replying, but the line about "passing on genes" specifically says that "passing on genes" had nothing to do with it and was not part of the decision.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 02:48

Maoist Pussy: Feb 12, 2014; by Lowtax

Not part of his decision, but clearly part of the wife's.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 02:49

Hometown Slime Queen: Oct 26, 2004; the GOAT

Each of therattle's posts is like throwing chum into an ocean of retarded sharks

# ? Aug 6, 2014 03:04

Erethizon_dorsatum: Nov 14, 2009

THS posted:

i came into this thread sympathetic to ppl raising their downs syndrome kid and leave understanding abortion is the best option in every detectable case

Me too. Yeesh

# ? Aug 6, 2014 03:07

wizardofloneliness: Dec 30, 2008

Maoist Pussy posted:

Not part of his decision, but clearly part of the wife's.

His post specifically says that was not one of her reasons. There are plenty of other reasons to go after him, you don't really need to deliberately misinterpret his posts.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 03:17

Bloody Hedgehog: Dec 12, 2003; 💥💥🤯💥💥
Gotta nuke something

QUEEN CAUCUS posted:

Each of therattle's posts is like throwing chum into an ocean of retarded sharks

# ? Aug 6, 2014 03:21

Cockmaster: Feb 24, 2002

QUEEN CAUCUS posted:

Throwing more fuel into this downsfire, please let's have a logical and compassionate debate

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/locations/local/frederick_county/frederick/article_fafd40d6-ed96-11e2-a50d-001a4bcf6878.html

FREDERICK, Md. � Police tried to forcibly remove a man with Down syndrome from a Maryland theater with tragic results, despite warnings from his caretaker that her client would "freak out" if they touched or spoke to him, according to her statement contained in an investigative file released Monday.

After the attention that incident originally got here, I'm kind of surprised it wasn't mentioned within the first few pages.

therattle posted:

She didn't feel that she could face an abortion just because the child was flawed. She believes that all people, even if 'broken", "worthless" and "potatoes", have value, can love, and be loved. I think she's right. If I had said that I simply couldn't bring myself to be the father to a disabled child, she probably would have terminated the pregnancy (and we probably would have been divorced and miserable).

Does she actually believe that treating severely disabled people with the same compassion and dignity is somehow mutually exclusive with not wanting to willfully create more of them?

QUEEN CAUCUS posted:

Don't forget the gem about caring for him into adulthood 'to a degree'.

Or assuming he'll be towards the high end of the Down's spectrum simply because prenatal scans didn't show any major physical deformities. I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way.

# ? Aug 6, 2014 03:36

Present: Oct 28, 2011; by Shine

Dr. S.O. Feelgood posted:

His post specifically says that was not one of her reasons. There are plenty of other reasons to go after him, you don't really need to deliberately misinterpret his posts.

I'm the beginning he does talk about how there are fertility issues and it might be their only child so the passing on the genes criticism is totally valid.

Its only later he goes all over the place scrambling for justification for giving birth to a retard.

Present fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Aug 6, 2014

# ? Aug 6, 2014 03:38

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK: Sep 11, 2001

therattle posted:

Where did I ever say that I had that notion? Did you not read my recent long email? We differ on whether he'll have contributed anything to humanity. He brings us (and others) a lot of joy and pleasure because he's drat cute. Please tell us what you contribute to humanity that makes your life so valuable.