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Sarx posted:The more I play this the more I am confused by the decision to not just make this Warmachine snapped to a grid. Seconding Sarx, I'm not automatically spending $65 (or even $45) to buy this because it's not the actual game ported to PC. The changes you've made are interesting, but I'll be waiting for a 50-75% off sale before pulling the trigger on close-to-Warmahordes-but-not-quite.
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Jul 31, 2014 17:09
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I had noticed in the last patch one of the notes stated that each faction now has 3 troop loadouts, anyone who has this able to report if it helps the variety of enemies you see in the multiplayer or is everyone powergaming with the poopsocked "best" loadout for an army?
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Aug 1, 2014 03:58
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I haven't been keeping up too well with this game, but so long as I can extend my Cryx reign of terror out of my basement and onto the internet I'm here on day one.
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Aug 5, 2014 08:18
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I had my first multiplayer match against someone the other day, I played Cryx vs their Khador. I was actually rolling over them until my dumb rear end left my Deneghra too close to their Sorcha, who promptly stomped the crap out of my poor caster. If I had any criticism of the game so far, it's that the character selection interface feels really floaty and laggy, and this game is absolutely going to need a tutorial.
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Aug 5, 2014 09:45
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I'm actually quite psyched for a PC version of WARMACHINE - I haven't played the tabletop game for years (since Escalation!) but I enjoyed it when I did, and as long as it's broadly faithful I'll be interested. It feels bloody pricy though, especially when, by the nature of the game and style, it's competing with the Relic 40k titles, etc. And that's also with the weight of 'I know the IP' - To someone just looking to pick up a strategy game with no prior knowledge of the setting, I can't see how they'd expect anyone to go for it at the current prices.
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Aug 5, 2014 09:53
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I believe the current pricing is something along the lines of Early Access, fundraising mode. The release version should be less expensive, I would hope.
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Aug 5, 2014 10:34
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Sarx posted:The more I play this the more I am confused by the decision to not just make this Warmachine snapped to a grid. I figured its because tabletop companies look at a 50€ price point for ALL OF OUR GAME ON THIS MAGIC BOX? as heresy. I just googled and apparently the warmachine stater set is 99 dollars. Maybe the slight differences are meant to assuage privateer press.
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Aug 5, 2014 11:04
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New patch today! Updated in second post of the thread. Most notably we have a bunch of new units since EA launch and some other things: Squad Construction is in, finally! Build your own custom army loadouts and name them whatever you want. Here are the units that exist in the game, more are coming. New Units Infantry Trencher Trencher Grenadier Winterguard WInterguard Rocketeer Mechanithrall Temple Flameguard Stormblade Gunmage Man-o-War Ironfang Pikemen Cleanser Cinerator Brute Thrall Skarlock Warjacks Charger Lancer Ironclad Juggernaut Destroyer Crusader Repenter Revenger Slayer Deathripper Defiler Defender Marauder Vanquisher Nightwretch If you have the game you'll notice that most units now have special actions, some of which are new to WARMACHINE. Dr Tasty fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Aug 6, 2014 |
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Aug 6, 2014 00:21
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NO REDEEMER  Sarx posted:as a player of the tabletop game I would just prefer it to be an analog of the game I love as this is often confusing with its differences. Was it thought that the actual table top game thought too complicated? I'm curious because literally every Warmachine player I know has the same complaint about the game. So they touched your precious, eh? DiHK fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Aug 6, 2014 |
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Aug 6, 2014 04:48
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Dr Tasty posted:New patch today! Updated in second post of the thread. Most notably we have a bunch of new units since EA launch and some other things: Thats... really not a lot of units when you break it down by faction. You average 3.5 troop choices and 3.75 warjack choices per faction. I know a lot of the amy variety it is going to be dependent on the amount of warcasters you have in game on release, but I would of expected a few (edit: few more) of the solo infantry to be available. Even if it's just the iconic solos like Manhunters/Reclaimers/ Regardless, I said I would pick it up when the army creator was in and that I'll do. I'll post a trip report after I play a few matches. Do you know how many Unit/Warnoun/solos each faction will have slated for the baseline release? Edit: I'm retarded and Skarlocks are literally in your list. Edit 2: How big of an army can you field in game? 25 points? DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Aug 6, 2014 |
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Aug 6, 2014 14:31
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It seems about 35/50 points. I ran Kreoss with a Vanquisher and Crusader. Then I put in 2x Cinerators, 6 TFG and 3? Cleansers. I still wish that the UI would pop up with what certain stuff does. The Cinerators have Menoth Boon? Cool what's that? Oh....I have no way to know....
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Aug 7, 2014 08:04
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Fangz posted:That interface looks like a gigantic mess... That's the other thing besides the price that's stopping me. I'm slightly familiar with the Warmachine rules, enough to know I would be interested in it, but the game interface looks tacky and unfinished as hell, and even $45 is too much when I could wait a few more months and get Duelyst for less than half that instead. Also, warjacks are lame, give me Hordes factions and we can talk.  canada jezus posted:I figured its because tabletop companies look at a 50€ price point for ALL OF OUR GAME ON THIS MAGIC BOX? as heresy. I just googled and apparently the warmachine stater set is 99 dollars. Maybe the slight differences are meant to assuage privateer press. Yeah I'm basically waiting for Blizzard or Firaxis or some other company that actually understands how to market to mainstream audiences to realize the wasted potential of turn-based strategy and complete the "Hearthstone is to Magic:TG as X is to Warhammer/Warmachine" analogy. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 08:35
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canada jezus posted:I figured its because tabletop companies look at a 50€ price point for ALL OF OUR GAME ON THIS MAGIC BOX? as heresy. I just googled and apparently the warmachine stater set is 99 dollars. Maybe the slight differences are meant to assuage privateer press. Edit: Stupid derail about cost of minis. Ignore. The price of the game at the moment is a bit scary. It's standing in the spot of, "If this game turns out pretty good I'll wait for a Steam Sale". Brainbread fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 21:08
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Yeah tabletop minis are criminally expensive these days. I remember back when I got into Warhammer 40K in the Rogue Trader days(1987 holy crap!), you could get 10-man metal squads with a leader, standard bearer, and musician along with the troopers for like $10 or so. EDIT: After some research, I found the original listing of the plastic Space Marine boxed set. It came with 30 dudes and cost around $18, and came with a bunch of options. Dreadwroth fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 21:58
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Brainbread posted:Specially since the last time I passed a hobby shop, a pack of 7 (or was it 8?) human figurines was $69.99. For one squad in an army. This is kind of a derail for the game itself, but TG does have a piss-taking thread for games workshop where goons do talk about how stupid expensive the models (mostly for 40k) have gotten. Skip past the first couple of pages to get to the meat and potatoes of the discussion and past the death pool stuff. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3603841 I did have a big effort post describing the mechanics of this game for people who haven't gotten it, but the forums ate it. I'll try to recreate it when I get off work. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 22:25
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Oh drat sorry I started a derail, I'll stop doing that.
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Aug 7, 2014 22:32
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DiHK posted:So they touched your precious, eh? Its not that. Its that this game isn't very good. Its basically X-Com with a skin change. If you wanted this game to be popular and do well you would need to leverage the existing fans of your IP and make a good game on top of it. There is a very big Warmachine crowd that gathers at the store I work in it (we hold the record for the biggest Journeyman league in the U.S. at 65 people to give you an idea). I haven't heard any of them praise the game but I have heard the same complaint I have a dozen or more times. If the game were a PC version of Warmachine you would have all the WM fans on board. You also could leverage the large crowd of people who want to play minis games but don't want to paint (they're out there, you just have to look at the success of X-Wing to see it). I just can't fathom the reason this direction was taken is all.
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Aug 9, 2014 08:08
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Sarx posted:Its that this game isn't very good. Its basically X-Com with a skin change. I don't understand. Which one is it?
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Aug 9, 2014 08:13
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I don't understand. Which one is it? Fair enough. I'm not a fan of X-Com but also its a shoddy version of X-Com that runs poorly and has a terrible UI, so even if you are a fan of X-Com the fact that this game isn't good still stands.
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Aug 9, 2014 08:16
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Sarx posted:Fair enough. I'm not a fan of X-Com but also its a shoddy version of X-Com that runs poorly and has a terrible UI, so even if you are a fan of X-Com the fact that this game isn't good still stands. Eh keep in mind X-com and especially the original didn' have the best UI and that's the most easily fixed aspect of the game besides some integers prior to release. I'm starting to think most tabletop players aren't gonna be happy with this. No offense to you Sarx, I'm sure I sounded the same bitching about the Neverwinter and how it was in no way REALLY 4e D&D, but in the same conversations with my friends who play warmachine I saw just how much enthusiasm they lost with any little mention of changes or their favorite faction not being in at release. One friend started really eager to gush about the game but got fully turned off by the very concept of all units playing a little more little solos, just flat out turned off from not being "faithful" to the tabletop.
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Aug 9, 2014 09:16
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Sarx posted:I just can't fathom the reason this direction was taken is all. What I can't fathom is why TT players in general don't understand that the difference in medium very often necessitates a difference in rule set. D&D, Battle Tech, War Machine, I'm sure 40k players had sperg fits about Dawn of War. UI, "tacky"; those are legitimate gripes. But "this needs to be exactly like the TT game" is an unrealistic expectation. All of these terrible disgusting changes come from the absence of units, right? IIRC Doc Tasty told us that units would be both difficult to implement for the developers and difficult to use in a battle for the consumer. And I can see that plainly when I play. I will choke point my self up if I am not being careful and that's just with the solo dudes. With a unit of 4 or 6 dudes managing the complex spaces of a terrain populated battlefield would be a nightmare. I've never seen units of dudes implemented in tactics game the way it would be in WM. I played TT WM until a bit after the release of Hordes, I participated in one of the first Iron Man tourneys (Matt Wilson smoked me with that stupid pirate army in the 2nd round). I haven't touched table top anything for like 5 years now but I remember it pretty well. So far I think this game has done a good job representing the spirit of War Machine. The interface is crude but this is still alpha.
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Aug 10, 2014 04:59
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DiHK posted:What I can't fathom is why TT players in general don't understand that the difference in medium very often necessitates a difference in rule set. D&D, Battle Tech, War Machine, I'm sure 40k players had sperg fits about Dawn of War. The Neverwinter comparison is not the same because they are different games. At its heart Warmachine is a turn-based strategy game. I don't mind practical changes like snapping to a grid or even making units into solos. I don't understand abandoning the numbers system entirely for a more obtuse system of star ratings that conceal the underpinnings of the game. Somebody said they thought the spirit of Warmachine was in this game. I guess that's true in the same way that the spirit of TMNT is in the new movie, but that doesn't make it good. This game isn't that much simpler to learn really so I'm wondering what the trade off was. Transferring something between mediums is all about trade offs. This game traded off familiarity for.... what?
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Aug 10, 2014 08:20
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I wasn't comparing games with NwN or Dawn of War, I was comparing fan bases. I don't think Xcom is a good comparison either unless WMT's soldiers gain experience and there's a strategic level of play in addition to the missions. Final Fantasy Tactics seems more adequate, but that's based on my presumptions about the campaign aspects. The computer takes care of the dice and the math, so why is it important to have numerical values instead of stars to describe stat values? And you can count the stars... seems pretty nit-picky to me. Other major mechanics, like LOS and movement are well executed in terms of functionality. Determining whether my dudes are in the LOS of enemies is pretty murky but the drawing of LOS for ranged attacks is sufficient for when you're on the attack. While we don't have systems on Warjacks the interpretation of power attacks is pretty good: in TT power attacks have situational usefulness and it's the same here. I would like to be able to lock up weapons with fists, though. The only thing that's missing from the troops=solos thing is that you don't have unit cohesion rules. Combined attacks work. Shield wall is in there. I think there should be a minimum field allowance applied to troops, such as you must bring at least 3 Winter Guard if you are bringing them, and you are only allowed one rocket Winter guard for every 2 regular ones... but those are pretty fine details and I imagine White Moon Dreams is still working on the broader, more important strokes. So, for an outsider this very much looks like "TT is my precious, and they changed my precious, and I hates them." And Michael Bay can't capture the spirit of anything. Dude makes crappy action movies and that's about it. Witness: Transformers movies.
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Aug 10, 2014 20:17
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DiHK posted:So, for an outsider this very much looks like "TT is my precious, and they changed my precious, and I hates them." You can't understand why someone who has played Warmahordes in person doesn't like the PC port having different rules? If we see the Warmachine name on something we expect certain things from the product and when those basic expectations aren't met, it's going to be jarring. The reason why these rules couldn't have been ported over straight has little to do with making a better digital experience and much to do with protecting physical sales, and as a player that sucks.
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Aug 10, 2014 20:26
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So, are the Warjacks just a giant healthbar? Or is the damage set up in columns and just randomized like in the TT (also, I don't think too many people would cry from not being able to target specific parts). Also, a combat UI like in Divinity: Original Sin would probably fit. The overall health is represented by a tiny bar underneath the Icon, all the actions are recognizable icons at the bottom (everything can Move, Run, Attack, Power Attack etc), and those could all be pretty easy to not be... giant strips of text. Arrow, Arrow with Speed Lines, a Sword, a Sword with a plus. Highlight things you can use and grey out ones you can't. Same goes for used Units and Unused. (Seriously, the UI needs a giant overhaul) As for Infantry-> Solos, would it be possible to just have all the units in a giant Unit Circle? Put a squad leader in the middle, and the unit moves from the centre to the centre. Then let players re-arrange units in the circle as they want? As well, people might cry over not doing individual targeting, but I think groups firing on groups would be a more comfortable with the TT crowd than the Solos.
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Aug 10, 2014 21:14
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SilverMike posted:You can't understand why someone who has played Warmahordes in person doesn't like the PC port having different rules? If we see the Warmachine name on something we expect certain things from the product and when those basic expectations aren't met, it's going to be jarring. The reason why these rules couldn't have been ported over straight has little to do with making a better digital experience and much to do with protecting physical sales, and as a player that sucks. Jarring is one thing, the whole "basic expectations are not meet" is what boggles me. And again, I played the TT very enthusiastically. I played until it was painfully obvious that WM/H was the CCG of miniatures. I quit because keeping up with the power creep by constantly buying a new army sucked as a player. Now, are you saying that Privateer Press is protecting it's sales by keeping WM:T from being a direct port? I could agree with that. And sure that sucks as a player, too. This is completely subjective but I don't think it IS that much different from the TT version. And if those "basic expectations" include the pricing then it's objectively wrong. When WM first came out it was $45 for a starter box and another $20 for the book. The underlying theme is Privateer Press: As a player, it sucks. It's silly to argue this so thoroughly when the $45 backers haven't even played yet. I get a kick out of fighting straw men and slamming my dick in the door. Brainbread posted:So, are the Warjacks just a giant healthbar? This.
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Aug 10, 2014 22:20
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DiHK posted:Jarring is one thing, the whole "basic expectations are not meet" is what boggles me. And again, I played the TT very enthusiastically. I played until it was painfully obvious that WM/H was the CCG of miniatures. I quit because keeping up with the power creep by constantly buying a new army sucked as a player. The problem I have with this line of thought is that they are obviously wanting something that emulates the tabletop experience, except that everywhere they are changing rules are only in ways that make it easier to program. Is it hard to program free form movement in a radius? Snap all that poo poo to a grid. Designating squads and command ranges kind of tricky? gently caress it, every model is a solo model now! What do you mean that fucks up casters who's whole gimmick is buffing/debuffing whole squads of dudes? They can still target a single guy! How does that not jive with the tabletop balance? If they wanted to spin off the IP into a game that didn't specifically play like the tabletop game, then why not do a Dawn of War 2 style RTS or a third person RTS game like Sacrifice? Making a game that is sorta like the tabletop but very much not is only going to piss off the grogs who live to poo poo on anything that's different than the tabletop rulebook.
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Aug 11, 2014 04:10
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I just bought this game and am downloading it while drinking my Shakeology shake it has over $400 worth of vitamin powder so it is a good buy too imo if anyone was wondering.
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Aug 11, 2014 04:30
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Any news on when ks backers who didn't have early access will get their game codes?
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Aug 11, 2014 04:38
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Hang on, people actually thought they were going to 1:1 replicate the table top game?
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Aug 11, 2014 13:39
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J Bjelke-Postersen posted:Hang on, people actually thought they were going to 1:1 replicate the table top game? We are hoping for something pretty drat close. (I would really love a 1:1 replica of the TT game because I honestly hate painting and going to gaming shops for more than a few minutes)
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Aug 11, 2014 14:40
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Right but it just doesn't make any financial sense, why would you make a game that cost $65 and includes a whole set of units and armies equivalent to game that cost at least $150 to get a decent collection to form a single army. The only way they could make this a 1 to 1 replica would be if they went the mtg online route and had the digital equivalents of each unit cost the same as the model version.
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Aug 11, 2014 15:14
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fleshy echidna posted:Right but it just doesn't make any financial sense, why would you make a game that cost $65 and includes a whole set of units and armies equivalent to game that cost at least $150 to get a decent collection to form a single army. The only way they could make this a 1 to 1 replica would be if they went the mtg online route and had the digital equivalents of each unit cost the same as the model version. Because: -Some people really like the assembly and painting of little plastic toy mans above what they get out of playing the game. In this case people would pay a premium in order to play pretty princess dress up with their toys so of course the physical models will be worth more. -There is no factory/packaging/shipping/warehouse costs associated with a digital product and as such can afford to not charge $35 for a unit of winter guard infantry while still making a hefty profit from digital sales and DLC units. -People who otherwise would not look at the tabletop game would be tempted to buy into it and begin paying $35 for a unit of toyman winter guard infantry so they can play locally/face to face. Count myself in this category. -The turbogroggy nerds who already have 100+ points in tabletop models would buy it to brush up on their skills and matchups between face to face tournaments. -Even if this was one to one tabletop rules, you still have no Cyriss, no Scryah, no Hordes factions, and every faction currently in is missing the majority of their core units including almost all of the solos and all but 1 warcaster per faction. Guaranteed that the majority of the above will be loving pricey to buy if they ever show up. I would reckon this game will never see Cyriss or Hordes.
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Aug 11, 2014 16:27
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 : Why doesn't anyone release any TT games for the PC!? It's a perfect market! I'll post and get people to buy it and all my friends will be happy! : Here we made a game that's a pretty close facsimile, made a little different due to limitations with programming, it's not perfect and its in Alpha/Beta, test it out! : THERE ARE DIFFERENCES AND THEY ARE BAD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE I WILL POST ANGRILY AND GET PEOPLE NOT TO BUY THIS  : ... Ok.*no more ports of TT games are made for several years* Why doesn't anyone release any TT games for the PC!? It's a perfect market! I'll post and get people to buy it and all my friends will be happy!...
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Aug 11, 2014 17:25
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Yeah, God forbid the takehome from your hyperbolic example of all the complaining nerds would be "Maybe they wanted the actual game, not so much a 'pretty close facsimile'." Mindblowing, I know.
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Aug 11, 2014 17:55
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Woah, my company total swapped offices with White Moon Dreams like two years ago. I had no idea they'd managed to turn things around, that's sweet.
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Aug 11, 2014 20:11
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just got my access code. first impressions: this game runs really poorly I had to go low/off settings to get the sound to stop stuttering and the menu screen background to scroll smoothly and i've got a fair bit more than the minimum reqs. (hopefully they optimize for release) The UI is a horror show that makes setting up my gaming table and cajoling my wife to play less work than playing the game instantly on the pc. things that take 2 seconds in real life take like 3 menus in game. The gameplay is really slow. I got through 2 turns of the single player mission in about 10 minutes and realized after killing the first wave of dudes that i still had to turn base my way with 10 guys across the entire map and just quit there from not wanting to deal with the UI anymore. Hoping the next update improves on the quality of life things the way other games in the genre like xcom have done. glad I at least got my limited edition models for my money.
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Aug 14, 2014 23:54
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Real hurthling! posted:just got my access code. first impressions: Well poo poo  How far along is the game towards full-on release? I hope there's a way to go, as I was hoping to pick this up for SP mainly.
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Aug 15, 2014 00:09
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Dandywalken posted:Well poo poo the mission it lets you play is called mission 2 so i'm not so sure there's more than just that one demo level in there now. They give you the option to watch a series of youtube videos because there is no in game tutorial missions yet.
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Aug 15, 2014 00:13
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I only had time to play a few rounds of the single player match but I actually enjoyed it pretty well. It ran perfectly, which was a nice surprise, and seemed intuitive enough though I had previously watched the tutorial videos. It feels a little slow, especially as compares to something like X-Com but I was also learning as I went along so I'm sure that will improve with experience. The only real problem I had were the times the camera went gallivanting around and the fact that the camera doesn't autofocus on the action on the enemy's turn. All told though, I'm looking forward to playing more.
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Aug 15, 2014 01:27
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