|
That or Priests, and an AOP.
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2014 20:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 08:15 |
|
|
I'd count the 105's on Priests as "big gun" as opposed to man-packed smoke throwers. It's really about wanting to pay the points for mobility or not at that stage.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2014 20:52
|
|
|
Well I picked up the new Rebellion AWI Blackpowder supplement, and it's absolutely fantastic; Incredibly detailed, thorough, just way more than I expected for it's cost. I'm celebrating by painting up a batch of riflemen from the new Perry continental set.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2014 05:32
|
|
|
Thats great to know, will have to pick it up after payday (along with new Saga rules). Good work on the mini- looks great. See guys, its not all ww2? 
Serotonin fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Aug 16, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2014 09:53
|
|
|
Dirt Worshipper posted:Well I picked up the new Rebellion AWI Blackpowder supplement, and it's absolutely fantastic; Incredibly detailed, thorough, just way more than I expected for it's cost. I'm celebrating by painting up a batch of riflemen from the new Perry continental set. I'm using Pike & Shotte to introduce some of my friends to historicals (coming from Warhammer/40k) how much more detailed is Rebellion by comparison to P&S or to Black Powder itself?
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2014 10:15
|
|
|
Serotonin posted:See guys, its not all ww2? I MET SOMEONE WHO BROUGHT UP SAGA TODAY WHEN THEY SAW MY FOW STARTER SET AND SHE PLAYS PICTS AND I WAS ALL 'OH MY GOD I WILL PLAY THAT WITH YOU' Meanwhile I assembled 10 tanks today. Feels good man.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2014 10:47
|
|
|
Cassa posted:I MET SOMEONE WHO BROUGHT UP SAGA TODAY WHEN THEY SAW MY FOW STARTER SET AND SHE PLAYS PICTS AND I WAS ALL 'OH MY GOD I WILL PLAY THAT WITH YOU' I keep threatening in irc to do a WHY YOU SHOULD PLAY SAGA post. Saga is amazing and probably an even easier gateway in to Historicals than something like FOW, particularly for people who like games like Malifaux/Infinity/Warmachine etc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2014 12:00
|
|
|
Bomb-Bunny posted:I'm using Pike & Shotte to introduce some of my friends to historicals (coming from Warhammer/40k) how much more detailed is Rebellion by comparison to P&S or to Black Powder itself? Id imagine, not having seen Rebellion but having played all the Rick Priestly games (Hail Caesar/Pike and Shotte/Black Powder) that it should be simpler than Pike and Shotte. In my opinion although all 3 games are pretty drat simple compared to games such as Warhammer or 40K etc, the order of complexity from hardest to easiest goes Hail Caesar/Pike and Shotte/Black Powder. And the most complex part of Black Powder is the Napoleonics with their more complicated formations etc. Rebellion should be straight forward as gently caress, you aint gonna have to work out much more than line, column and skirmish Id imagine.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2014 12:02
|
|
|
WHY YOU SHOULD PLAY SAGA!  What is Saga? Isnt that an old persons holiday tour company? Saga is a skirmish game for 28mm (although of course Ive seen people doing it in every other scale) that covers the Dark Ages. Its for warbands of between 20 and 50 minis and uses a very clever yet simple system called Battleboards to pull off cool moves, powerful attacks and combos and also covers a command and morale system. Players who have played skirmish games such as Warmachine or Malifaux will feel right at home with the idea of units and characters with special abilities they can pull off if you use the right resources at the right time. So Dark Ages? Whats that about then? The game covers Europe (mostly although there is a lot of fan made unofficial mods) from roughly the 10th C through to the early early 12th C. There are currently a lot of offocial armies available and as well as the rule book there are 3 supplements with new forces in. The forces in the original rule book are : Vikings: Super attacky beserker types Anglo Danes: Solid defensive types with abilities to manipulate your opponents fatigue levels. Normans: Mounted knights and nasty crossbow men Welsh: Super skirmishy hidey types with ponies and javelins. The expansions cover all sorts of stuff from the more obvious Anglo Saxons (hordey infantry fun) and Franks through to the more obscure such as Rus, Jomsvikings (super tricksy elite), and Bretons. So is this some super obscure game thats going to take me months of painful research to source figures and make army lists? Oh no, not at all. Historicals are starting to grasp that people want an easy in, and Saga has very much gone along with this. Gripping Beast are a very good company who are the official partner of Studio Tomahawk (the writers of Saga) and they produce starter forces for each faction available. http://www.grippingbeast.com/shop.php?CatID=2397 (yes I know the website is a bit 2005, but its all there) They also sell expansion packs where you can buy blisters that will provide you with entire units you will need to expand your forces. Heres my (mostly finished) Jomsviking starter box. It doesnt look very many because Joms can only have Hearthguard and Warriors being elite merc types, and my force is all hearthguards, so super small and tough.  And heres some of my Breton's- Warlord and Hearthguard (using plastic minis from Conquest Minis Norman range with some minor conversion- lances changed to javelins and roudn shields from the Gripping Beast plastic boxsets I had)  Failing that there are other cheap options, especially if you are going in with a friend. Gripping Beast and Wargames Factory both make plastic multi part Dark Age figures. You can get Anglo Saxon/Danes and Vikings both in armoured and unarmoured variety. For my money the Gripping Beast ones are far superior and take less work to put together, but I know Americans can pick up the Wargamses Factory figures much much cheaper. My gaming group has a mix of both and once they are painted and on the table they look fine. We started out by buying a box each of viking and Anglo Saxon armoured types, and a box of generic Dark Age levy type. We managed to make pretty much 4 starter four point warbands out of that lot which came to under £60. So you talked about units- how do I make a force, is it again grognardy and takes a lot of research. Nope, its dead simple. Its a points based system that most wargamers will understand, but instead of buying individual troops you pay by unit. Games are usually played between 4 and 6 points (6 points seems to be the normal tournament level). Your Warlord, the leader of your force is free. You then spend your points, within the provision/field allowance of your force to buy units. 1 point buys you either: 4 Hearthguard- elite, usually heavily armoured and armed body guards to your warlord types 8 Warriors- Professional soldier types, usually with some armour 12 Levy- peasants and farm types, usually no armour, and often skirmishy type weapons- bows, javelins etc. Your army lists may also allow you different options to arm your units. For example Viking hearthguards can chose to beserkers instead of regular hearthguard; they lose a bit of armour but have multiple attacks, or Anglo Danes can add in Dane Axes instead of shields and swords, to again reduce defence but give a lot more hitting power. So how does the game actually work? The core mechanics are very simple, anyone familiar with things such as WFB or 40k wont be lost here. Roll to hit, roll to wound, roll to save etc. Nothing difficult. It does give you a bit more control as you can allocate dice to attack or defence as needed but its very straight forward. Movement is even easier, you have measuring sticks, and movement is basically all infantry have Medium move and Cavalry Long move. The game comes with range rulers, or loads of companies make lovely MDF/plastic ones. The measurements in game are consistent and no matter if its missile fire, movement or unit coherency it uses the same system: Very Short (VS, that equals to 2″), Short (S, that equals to 4″), Medium (M, that equals to 6″) and Long (L, that equals to 12″) You mentioned Battleboards. Explain. Yep while the core mechanics are dead simple, the meat of the game is the battleboards and Saga dice.  (Welsh Saga Dice) Saga Dice are unique to each faction (well not totally true, many share the same dice) and are d6's with 3 symbol types on. I symbol will be common and appear on the dice 4 times, 1 symbol will appear twice and one will be like rolling a 6 and appear obviously once! Your army generates a number of these dice a turn. You get 1 dice for your warlord and 1 dice for each unit of Hearthguard or Warriors. Levy generate no saga dice. However you can never generate more than 6 dice via your troops. The dice are rolled at the start of your turn and are used on the battleboards. Let me explain the battleboards. Each army has a unique “battleboard”, that is a page filled with 3 columns of boxes, where are described the unique abilities of that army.  Each ability requires a certain die (or combination of dice) to be activated. Obviously the more powerful the ability the more difficult the combo of dice needed- a really powerful ability might need the equivalent of a double 6 to pull off. Obviously you never have enough dice to pull off every abilty you want to activate, but theres a further tension too. The Saga dice are also used to activate your troops. The Battleboards have 3 columns, the last 2 columns are abilities, but the first column is the activation column. The clever part here is the better your troop type, the easier it is to activate. For example Hearthguard can usually be activated on any dice face. Warriors however would need to be activated on either the most common dice face, or the next common, ie like rolling 1-5 on a d6. Levy, being untrained and undisciplined rabble will activate on the least common face and the middle one, ie like rolling 4,5,6 on a d6. Hope that makes sense. Your Warlord can also activate 1 nearby unit for free. The fun in the game is trying to balance activating troops at the right time with pulling off some vicious and clever combos of abilities on the battleboards. Its a simple mechanic that captures activation, morale (as in as your units die/break, you have less Saga dice to roll each turn) and special abilities. The last important mechanic to mention is fatigue. A unit can be activated more than once a turn (which will strike a chord with any Infinity players), butevery time they are activated after the first, they generate Fatigue tokens. If they get into a combat, they also generate a fatigue token afterwards. Your Fatigue tokens can be spent by your opponent to make any attempt done by that unit more difficult, like making it harder for an Fatigued enemy archer unit to hit your infantry, for example, or reduce the distance you move with that unit. If an unit accumulates more Fatigue than it is allowed, it becomes Exhausted, and cannot do anything on that turn besides resting. You can get rid of Fatigue tokens by spending actions to make your units rest as well. Some factions can use their battleboards to also remove fatigue or even add it to other units. The Anglo Danes are especially good at this and can even convert fatigue tokens into opponents casualties. You really have to think ahead in this game. So tell me about the expansions Other than 3 expansions covering the same period as already mentioned, last week Studio Tomahawk released a stand alone product called Saga: The Crescent and the Cross  This is a stand alone product that covers the early Medieval period concentrating on the Crusades and Spain/ El Cid. The core rules are the same as the original Saga although its more of a 1.5 version, the errate and FAQ have been addressed within the rule book and its all laid out in a much clearer way. Of course Gripping Beast are releasing starter forces of Crusaders, Moors,Saracens etc and there are lots of other options, including plastics out there. I think the forces are compatible with the original Saga releases, but not 100% sure on that. I havent got my copy of C&C yet but will update when Ive got it. So basically what you are saying is that Saga is easy and reasonably cheap to get into, hugely fun, has a tournament scene for those who like that sort of thing, wont terrify people new to Historicals, has simple but very clever mechanics and is all about hairy blokes smacking the poo poo out of each other. Pretty much, yes. Serotonin fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Aug 16, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2014 13:11
|
|
|
Updated the OP with that. Thank you, Sero. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2014 13:20
|
|
|
1 platoon down!!! (note I didn't say company) How do people keep their sanity painting soviets??? Urgh of course now that i post that picture I see a few spots on some stands that need more grass to cover up the piss-poor job of basing I did on some of them. Numlock fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Aug 16, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2014 19:58
|
|
|
Bomb-Bunny posted:I'm using Pike & Shotte to introduce some of my friends to historicals (coming from Warhammer/40k) how much more detailed is Rebellion by comparison to P&S or to Black Powder itself? I can't speak for P&S, but there is a ton of history in Rebellion, pages of uniform information, background. Hell, there's four pages on the German mercenaries in the British pay. The second half of the book is a discussion of how to tailor BP traits and rules to fit the nature of the AWI, as well as 19 (!) detailed scenarios.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2014 23:50
|
|
|
Mine's on the slow boat from England, I'll start  over it when it gets here (AWI is my primary historical interest).
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 00:06
|
|
|
You know, for some people, you can't lose for trying. Played 1 v 1 1500 points against one of the newer players. Nipped the owner's idea of 2 v 1 against him in the bud, but he kept trying to delay the game, just in case someone else showed up and we could throw down a 2 v 2 (which I wouldn't have played). Anyways, newer guy, took 9th Armored from Bridge at Remagen, CiC and 2iC in Easy Eights, three Pershings, three Easy Eights (actually looking at it now, he either short changed himself or forgot he purchased escorts, because I'm only coming up with 1365 points for his force based on what he fielded, that is Easy Eights with the extra AA gun and Improvised Armor). I ran 1500 FJ list because that's what I brought (CiC & 2iC w/Panzerfaust and Panzerschrek team, two 2-squad platoons w/Panzerfaust Cmd team, one 1-squad platoon of FJPioneers w/Panzerfaust Cmd, 4 mortars, 3 PaK40s, 3 Panthers). We rolled Dust Up, with him as the attacker. I placed my objective on his side close to the objective he set down, just as a challenge to myself and make things a little easier on him. He deployed his three Pershings sitting in woods nearby the objective, facing towards my corner, as he later revealed he though I would deploy my Panthers on the board and try to have a 'sniper' fight with his Pershings. I deployed the Pioneers, Mortars, and PaK40s sitting in a nice square around the objectives on my corner. He deploys his CiC and I suggested to him to hold his 2iC in reserve with the platoon of Shermans. First three turns, nothing happens. Turn four we both get our reserves, his being the Shermans, mine the Panthers. I open up on his CiC who is in the open, three hits, three successful firepower checks. Now, I measured before and said the CiC was outside of 8" from the Pershings, he said they were inside. Now, if the Pershings are inside 8" that is two hits against the side armor of the Pershings (the third was not a valid shot). He rolls motivation, last Pershing runs, I have a de facto win within 10 minutes. So... I contest! I don't think that CiC was within 8 inches, and I disagree with your measurement, so the rules say we should roll off! So I had him roll the die and it rolled high so that I was "correct" that the CiC was not within 8". The Pershings are alive and not run off the board. Because that's a pisser to basically lose in less time than it takes to actually set up the board. We continue, my two squads of FJs come on, he runs his Shermans over. I kill two of his Pershings with my Panthers, I lose one to one of his Pershings, and the other two to the E8s. FJs don't want to assault. He assaults my FJs with a 2iC + one E8, pushes them back, 2iC bogs on the consolidation. Assaults the other platoon with two E8s, I bail one in defensive fire, and force the other to run on a counter attack. I finally pull off an assault against the last Pershing, but don't kill it. Instead it bogs. I then tell him his other two Shermans are within range to continue the assault if he wishes, so he goes to push them in and... they both bog. Three ones in a row for bog checks (four if you consider the 2iC who bogged the turn before). I tabled him and I was trying to give him the advantage. At least he was happy that he killed my Panthers and did force a check on one FJ platoon (they passed and stayed and were the ones that assaulted the Pershing). CovfefeCatCafe fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Aug 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 03:18
|
|
|
We played our first test game of Chain of Command yesterday: Germans attacking and Russians defending  Lining up for a flank attack  Russian rifle teams ended up breaking the attack, but only after heavy casualties Chain of Command is a good game. The two guys who played the game had not read the rulebook (the rulebook guy was sort of DM:ing the game), and they were playing the it pretty much without asking for rules clarifications for the second half of the game, without having ever opened the rulebook. You should probably try it out if you want to play a good platoon level game of WW2. We're planning a second game next week, I might try to make a write-up about the game after that. Learning points: We are starting out with Barbarossa, so squads are huge. 10 guys for Germans, and up to 14 or so for Russians. A platoon is 4 squads, which becomes a lot of infantry on the board. We think that it is probably a good idea to start out with just 3 groups per side, and maybe replace that fourth squad with an additional support choice. Don't expect to get everything right, especially with the deployment game, the first time. And by that I don't mean misreading rules or such, more like that we really understood once the proper game started how important it was to have the right jump-off points, and how the deployment game affected the board. There was a lot less "on-board" movement than what we are used to in other games. As a matter of fact, the Russians only moved a squad once. Instead, the way that deployment works meant that squads turned up all over the place. The Russian player had better placed jump-off points, so he didn't need to move, and could concentrate on firing more. This meant in the end that the Germans took more casualties, and finally broke. A well placed ambush by a Russian rifle squad also made a huge difference, but still the player had not actually "moved" any of those units! So, deployment is extremely important, but don't kick yourself if you don't get it right the first time. Magpie syndrome is dangerous. After doing some inventory, we realized that we are pretty close to having enough squads to field a company vs company game. That's a lot of miniatures. WW2 is super easy to paint. Like, possible to paint a platoon/week if you don't get bogged down by details. A nice break from my previous projects. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Aug 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 11:15
|
|
|
Glad you enjoyed it. Its become really popular at our club very quickly. A few of the old grogs are saying its the best wargame they have ever played, regardless of period or scale. Battle report from one of the latest club games if you are interested- some nice eye candy http://lurkusspleen.wordpress.com/2014/07/07/chain-of-commandpatrol/ Serotonin fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Aug 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 11:53
|
|
|
Serotonin posted:Glad you enjoyed it. Its become really popular at our club very quickly. A few of the old grogs are saying its the best wargame they have ever played, regardless of period or scale. One of the things that stood out to us the most in the beginning was that the shooting mechanic is very simple, and there are not so many things to keep track of. This is very helpful when you play a platoon level game.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 12:45
|
|
|
The core rules for shooting etc arent that different from most of their games, especially IABSM.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 12:47
|
|
|
I thought this was too funny, the interwar and early WWII periods are the domain of silly tanks.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 01:52
|
|
|
The best thing about the T-35 is that it killed a bunch of projects that were even sillier.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 02:39
|
|
|
How dare you mock the glorious (ridiculous) land battleship  . Who makes the While I am editing : Speaking of 15mm I got my first box of FoW Great War (the British) and the Germans shouldn't be too far behind. Ironically the package was padded with a folded up page of a recent white dwarf. No Pun Intended fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Aug 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 03:13
|
|
|
Numlock posted:I thought this was too funny, the interwar and early WWII periods are the domain of silly tanks. There is no such thing as silly Italian tanks. Only awesome and awesomer. Seriously, though, tankettes are one of those ideas that seemed perfect for the Spanish Civil War and the way everyone thought WWII would go. But then AT rifles grew into 37mms grew into 57mms grew into 75mms then to 88/90mms, etc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 03:54
|
|
|
Seeing as americans now get Pershings, is american armor viable to play now? Or will it still get murdered to loving panthers.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 20:34
|
|
|
I'm a daring dawn raid, tiny Germans invaded my letterbox. I'm very impressed by the delivery time from England; I only ordered these last week.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 22:33
|
|
|
DJ Dizzy posted:Seeing as americans now get Pershings, is american armor viable to play now? Or will it still get murdered to loving panthers. It's pretty good against Panthers, in my limited experience. I mean, front armor 10 against AT 14, so you'll bail or bounce half the time at close range, and you have the same odds at killing Panthers. They're confident no matter what list you take. As long as you don't just park them and keep their side armor to the Panthers that are trying to kill you, you should be fine. Also, if you do take the Super Pershing, don't just park it in one spot hoping to 'snipe' all the enemy tanks while artillery ranges in and those tanks you were going to 'snipe' used cover to get on your flank and side armor.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 22:41
|
|
|
DJ Dizzy posted:Seeing as americans now get Pershings, is american armor viable to play now? Or will it still get murdered to loving panthers. American armor has always been viable to play as? Unless you forgot Jumbos and 76s exist.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 23:26
|
|
|
No Pun Intended posted:I'm a daring dawn raid, tiny Germans invaded my letterbox. I'm very impressed by the delivery time from England; I only ordered these last week. Americans in this thread seem constantly amazed that the UK has a postal service.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 07:19
|
|
|
Serotonin posted:Americans in this thread seem constantly amazed that the UK has a postal service. Stuff coming FROM America seems to take forever, so maybe we just have a better postal service. For now. its going down hill rapidly.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 07:39
|
|
|
Serotonin posted:Americans in this thread seem constantly amazed that the UK has a postal service. He's from New Zealand. Traditionally we're used to a six week trip on the slow boat and then NZ Post kicks it until it breaks.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 08:54
|
|
|
Nude Bog Lurker posted:He's from New Zealand. Traditionally we're used to a six week trip on the slow boat and then NZ Post kicks it until it breaks. My postie leaves packages in the bin. The recylinging bin thankfully, but its still a bin!
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 09:09
|
|
|
I know that when I mail poo poo to the UK from Australia, even during the Xmas overload period it takes 10 days at most to arrive, sometimes as few as 6. They may be assholes who won't mail paint pots now, but Royal Mail seems to process and deliver stuff as fast as any mail service drat well ought to do.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 09:37
|
|
|
All I know is that my friend ordered some Germans from PSC a while back and declared Britain to be a third world country after learning he couldn't get a tracking number.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 11:40
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:All I know is that my friend ordered some Germans from PSC a while back and declared Britain to be a third world country after learning he couldn't get a tracking number. As opposed to the USPS' archaic "tracking" system?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 11:56
|
|
|
Tracking numbers don't work on international post beyond telling you it exists, unless you pay a lot extra for a courier, at least in my experience.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 11:58
|
|
|
International shipping is giving me some serious second thoughts about By Fire and Sword. The stuff is fantastic and the period is super-interesting, but Jesus help me if I ever want to buy more of it after the Kickstarter.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 12:00
|
|
|
Nude Bog Lurker posted:He's from New Zealand. Traditionally we're used to a six week trip on the slow boat and then NZ Post kicks it until it breaks. I was mostly impressed at what the owl could carry.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 12:16
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:All I know is that my friend ordered some Germans from PSC a while back and declared Britain to be a third world country after learning he couldn't get a tracking number. My last order from the UK required me to ask my bank to send a confirmation message to the receiving bank, just to prove that my bank actually did exist. Even though I paid with VISA. Which, to me, is something I didn't even expect from a third world country.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 13:03
|
|
|
lilljonas posted:My last order from the UK required me to ask my bank to send a confirmation message to the receiving bank, just to prove that my bank actually did exist. Even though I paid with VISA. Which, to me, is something I didn't even expect from a third world country. The issue there being is they think it's you who's in the 3rd world nation :p
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 13:20
|
|
|
Serotonin posted:Americans in this thread seem constantly amazed that the UK has a postal service. I'm genuinely impressed by its speed, a lot of orders from Mantic will get to my house faster than some things I order from places that aren't an entire ocean away.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 14:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 08:15 |
|
|
Serotonin posted:The issue there being is they think it's you who's in the 3rd world nation :p Not the same country where people still take orders by fax? Or is that just a proof of how behind the times historical wargamers are?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 15:30
|
|