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Olesh posted:No. Just... no. The other exception to this is the FF9 soundtrack, which has motifs from the entire series tucked everywhere as deliberate callbacks. The least subtle example is Intension of the Earth and Kuja's Theme, where it's basically the exact same song except sometimes it has the beat from We Will Rock You.
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Aug 21, 2014 20:17
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George posted:The other exception to this is the FF9 soundtrack, which has motifs from the entire series tucked everywhere as deliberate callbacks. The least subtle example is Intension of the Earth and Kuja's Theme, where it's basically the exact same song except sometimes it has the beat from We Will Rock You. That falls under the category of really obvious when side by side. Same deal with the FFVII Costa del Sol theme and the FFXIV one. Using this as a demonstrative piece, you could justify any 4/4 song with the correct tempo as having the same beat. I mean, it's kind of like saying that two people have the same height and weight - it may be technically true, but useless as a basis of comparison and doesn't indicate any sort of relationship between the two.
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Aug 21, 2014 23:54
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Olesh posted:Using this as a demonstrative piece, you could justify any 4/4 song with the correct tempo as having the same beat. I mean, it's kind of like saying that two people have the same height and weight - it may be technically true, but useless as a basis of comparison and doesn't indicate any sort of relationship between the two. Great Joe fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 00:25
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George posted:The other exception to this is the FF9 soundtrack, which has motifs from the entire series tucked everywhere as deliberate callbacks. The least subtle example is Intension of the Earth and Kuja's Theme, where it's basically the exact same song except sometimes it has the beat from We Will Rock You. You sure you got the right FFV song there? I can't figure out what part is the same.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:40
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Great Joe posted:Oh come on, that's clearly two stomps and a clap by a crowd. Show me one song that has that. I mean, It's pretty clear Nobuo's a metalhead.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:41
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dis astranagant posted:You sure you got the right FFV song there? I can't figure out what part is the same. Starting around 23 seconds in.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:42
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dis astranagant posted:You sure you got the right FFV song there? I can't figure out what part is the same. He has the wrong Kuja's theme, rather. Immoral Melody is what plays in Kuja-centric cutscenes and contains Kuja's leitmotif, while Kuja's Theme is the song that plays in his dungeon. It's kind of a running theme in the game. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 01:03
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Here's one that's a bit more straightforward. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYdSH34z5hg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggxVxcsESo4
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Aug 22, 2014 01:04
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FinalGamer posted:This is the same guy that got the dude from loving Deep Purple to do the boss theme for Blue Dragon. Yes he is a metalhead and I love his taste. click "metalhead"
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Aug 22, 2014 01:16
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Hey, the AV Club is making GBS threads all over FFVII like a hipster from 2005. Best part is that the author uses not waiting for Shadow at the Floating Continent as his example of why FFVI's so much better than VII, while completely ignoring the island scenes right afterwards. And the description of Aeris's death reads exactly like someone who hasn't played VII in decades... or exactly what Elentor is warning people about when it comes to bagging on the game.
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Aug 22, 2014 04:14
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habeasdorkus posted:Hey, the AV Club is making GBS threads all over FFVII like a hipster from 2005. Ugh, that article is so wrong! Clearly the best Final Fantasy death scene is in FFV. 
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Aug 22, 2014 04:26
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Great Joe posted:Oh come on, that's clearly two stomps and a clap by a crowd. Show me one song that has that. I mean, It's pretty clear Nobuo's a metalhead. You're arguing two different things that have the same word, Beat as you're using it is the backdrop of the song, Beat as he's using it is how fast and how many beats are in a measure.
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Aug 22, 2014 05:26
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Schwartzcough posted:Ugh, that article is so wrong! No joke, that's what I was expecting when I saw the link on Twitter.
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Aug 22, 2014 05:46
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Schwartzcough posted:Ugh, that article is so wrong!
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Aug 22, 2014 06:26
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habeasdorkus posted:Hey, the AV Club is making GBS threads all over FFVII like a hipster from 2005. Pretty much any criticism or analysis coming from within the FF fanbase is stupid. It's always a part of the increasingly confusing tug-of-war between the games in the series, on which people have opinions based mostly on playthroughs from their childhood.
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Aug 22, 2014 13:19
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Minrad posted:Here's one that's a bit more straightforward. Yeah... but that is quite clearly the exact same track, or at least a remixed track. Considering how many callbacks 9 had to other Final Fantasies, it's not surprising.
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Aug 22, 2014 13:26
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Dementedghost posted:Beat as he's using it is how fast and how many beats are in a measure.
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Aug 22, 2014 14:53
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I just beat FF8 for first time over the last few weeks and noticed this similarity in music between it and FF7. At the 21 second mark. It's the main motif to the theme of FF7 but in a minor key. http://youtu.be/V4jvol20r6Y I also really liked that the eighth note intro that was in every regular battle theme in the series until FF7 made a brief reappearance in the final battle of FF8. As a lifelong fan I really appreciated that, even if I'm 15 years behind the curve on playing the game.
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Aug 22, 2014 15:47
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I know gently caress all about music, but I'm pretty the technical term for "this 5 second part is the exact same as that other song, except..." is 'reaching'.
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Aug 22, 2014 15:54
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It's not uncommon at all for a composer to self reference themselves in other music they do. Especially give the success of FF7 it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it was an intentional nod to players. Even if it wasn't intentional, he might have had a melody in his head and didn't realize that he had already written it before. Professional composers write such large volumes of music, some of which never gets used in the project or medium it was written for, plus any other projects they might have on the go, personal or otherwise, it's not unreasonable to me that he could have forgotten that he had used something before. Commissioned composers have a much different connection to their music than their audience. They tend to not have as strong an emotional to their music because it's a job and it was written for somebody else. In the subsequent years Nobuo's has definitely embraced his music given stuff like The Black Mages, but this all being said, to me it sounds way too deliberate to be a fluke.
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Aug 22, 2014 16:32
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That's absolutely a reference to the FFVII track, he's not reaching. I'd noticed the similarity between the first measures of the FFVI opera track and the Aeris track as well, but it's such a simple part that I'm not sure how I'd call that one (reference, unconscious self-plagiarism, etc.).
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Aug 22, 2014 16:59
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If we're going to assume that every single similar series of notes is an intentional reference, then Motoi Sakuraba would be the king of self-referential music. There reaches a point where these things stop being clever references to previous works, and are just part of the guy's style.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:04
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habeasdorkus posted:Hey, the AV Club is making GBS threads all over FFVII like a hipster from 2005.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:23
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habeasdorkus posted:Hey, the AV Club is making GBS threads all over FFVII like a hipster from 2005. He just complains about the death scene though, not the overall game. I think he missed some of the point of the story, but these things happen.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:43
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Indeterminacy posted:I don't think it's wrong to say that there are some more compelling deaths in fiction than Aeris's in FF7. Snowdon in Catch 22, for instance. But "Shadow died and that's more important because that was my fault" seems like a really narcissistic way to judge whether it was meaningful. So y'know, haters gonna hate and all that. That must mean Fire Emblem games have the best deaths since all the deaths are your fault.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:51
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ApplesandOranges posted:That must mean Fire Emblem games have the best deaths since all the deaths are your fault. I still think FFV has the best death in gaming. Galuf....good night, sweet prince 
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Aug 22, 2014 18:12
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ApplesandOranges posted:That must mean Fire Emblem games have the best deaths since all the deaths are your fault. It's true, I cried for weeks when I left Jagen behind as a decoy. It was very emotional.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:20
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I did get real nervous about leaving Old Geezer behind because that was a bastard of a stage.There was plenty of punishment for making one mistake at several places.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:48
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Madmarker posted:I still think FFV has the best death in gaming. Dude inflicted an unwinnable boss fight on the final boss. Gotta respect that.
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Aug 22, 2014 19:02
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I think the best game when it comes to "this death is impactful because it's your fault" is Tactics Ogre, but that's a title that generally holds a special place in my heart for being gut-punchingly dark in various places, especially for a game that was originally released in the mid-nineties. The player choice I'm referring to also leads to what may be my favourite "bad ending" in a video game.
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Aug 22, 2014 19:14
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Madmarker posted:I still think FFV has the best death in gaming. Tellah's death in FFIV was done better.
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Aug 22, 2014 19:36
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My favorite part of that AV club article is that it's trolling from minute one:quote:In the middle of the 1997 role-playing game Final Fantasy VII, a kind, magical, nature-loving woman named Aerith It's Aeris in the game. You can argue mistranslation/localization/whatever, but tell me that's not deliberate on the author's part. So they're already evoking the whole character name flamewars of the 90s immediately before continuing with the argument about why it's not as good as something in FF6, another popular debate topic of the late 90s (that is, "is 6 or 7 better" flamewars) it's like the whole article is meta-trolling internet forums circa-1999, except in 2014.  e: actually now that I click some of the article links it looks like they're doing a whole series of "in 1994 ..." articles, which would explain the focus on FF6, released 1994. OK, that makes a lot more sense. Psion fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 19:48
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Also the whole "kind, magical, nature-loving" description is, while not exactly inaccurate, kind of misleading.
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Aug 22, 2014 20:22
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U-DO Burger posted:If we're going to assume that every single similar series of notes is an intentional reference, then Motoi Sakuraba would be the king of self-referential music. There reaches a point where these things stop being clever references to previous works, and are just part of the guy's style. There's only so many ways to string together three notes on a classical scale. The FFV -> Kuja's Theme is a reference because it's distinct, recognizable, and covers multiple measures using the same melody. There's some leeway for intent in terms of a referential motif or theme. Motifs themselves can be very short - one of the most famous examples of a motif "in action", as it were, is Beethoven's 5th Symphony, where the whole thing is built entirely around a 4-note motif. The significance of the motif is circular, because it's distinct throughout the whole symphony as being the motif because it's a four note sequence repeated throughout the symphony - it's not even the same four notes, it's a pattern of four relative notes with the same timing. The FFVI Aria vs Aeris's thing? It's three notes - not three measures. Not even "measures", plural. It's a drat arpeggio (a chord played in sequence, not simultaneously). Three notes, PLUS you're comparing the melody of one song to the accompaniment of another. The Kuja's Theme vs We Will Rock You thing? I mean, it's possible it's referential, but you're comparing two different beats and saying they're the same. Again, like with the whole Aria vs Aerith's theme thing, if all you listen to is the first measure, then sure, I can see where you're coming from. I mean, every second measure is different, but I'm beginning to suspect that I'm being trolled here, so, uh, sorry if your hearing is bad enough that you can't tell the difference.
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Aug 22, 2014 20:27
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Rushputin posted:I think the best game when it comes to "this death is impactful because it's your fault" is Tactics Ogre. My favorite thing about Tactics Ogre is how Vice is built up as your rival doppleganger over the first half of the game, and in the Chaos storyline at least is executed after having ambitions that overreach his grasp with no input from the player. Talk about subverting expectations! Psion posted:actually now that I click some of the article links it looks like they're doing a whole series of "in 1994 ..." articles, which would explain the focus on FF6, released 1994. Yeah. The 20 year retrospective has actually been pretty good, and I usually like the AVClub. I just object strongly to this particular argument. Especially when there's so many other, better things to say about FFVI and because it misrepresents FFVII and Aeris so blatantly.
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Aug 22, 2014 20:58
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Isn't it weird that in 2014 FF7's greatness is a well-kept secret?
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Aug 22, 2014 21:11
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George posted:Isn't it weird that in 2014 FF7's greatness is a well-kept secret? 
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Aug 22, 2014 21:20
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FinalGamer posted:Not when its fandom majority are all teenagers that didn't actually play the game Just a bit of housekeeping for accuracy.
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Aug 22, 2014 21:42
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Renoistic posted:The best / worst part of the Carronade business is that the man responsible for it escapes justice in the end. 4 is by far my favorite in the series. A bit tangential here, but it seems like this was to help lend some weight to your choice at the end of the game (which is one of the things that made it so memorable): Be "good" and convince the extremely pissed-off dragon-god to spare humanity but at the same time let the villain run away, or be "bad" and get your revenge, but humankind is hosed, starting with your very own party members  . Kinda hamfisted, but thematically it works well. It's a shame that Capcom kinda let that series die, as is was starting to really define itself apart from other JRPGs, but then again, Capcom might be the one big-name developer that's actually worse than Square-Enix at handling their IPs. Anyway, you just know that Hojo was roomies in evil science college with Lord Yuna, and probably Krelian from Xenogears too.
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Aug 22, 2014 22:07
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SPOILER REMOVED (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 22, 2014 22:14
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