Auspol September: The Canberra Clown Car

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol September: The Canberra Clown Car

Drugs: Jul 16, 2010; I don't like people who take drugs. Customs agents, for example - Albert Einstein

Last year I applied for a job as an organiser for a union which covers the casino, so I had to do some boning up on work conditions for croupiers

Mills posted:

Is the turnover rate high because people quit the job?

Yes. A fairly high percentage of the workforce are students, who quit when they graduate.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:00

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 19:21

Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

I've known several croupiers who last at most a year or two until they find something better.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:02

Mills: Jun 13, 2003

So I don't understand why it's not a more popular job with older single people. It obviously has the potential to pay quite well compared to Sydney's (?) median salary.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:04

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Mills posted:

So I don't understand why it's not a more popular job with older single people. It obviously has the potential to pay quite well compared to Sydney's (?) median salary.

An absurdly niche career with average pay and a lovely work environment?

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:06

Mills: Jun 13, 2003

I'm not sure what 'average' pay is in Sydney but I seem to recall the median being 45k so it's pretty disingenuous to attempt to negatively associate the word average here.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:08

Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

Doctor Spaceman posted:

An absurdly niche career with average pay and a lovely work environment?

It also requires a reliable motor dexterity in being able to handle cards and chips quickly and accurately.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:08

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Well do you auspol?

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:09

Kial: Jul 23, 2006

Mills posted:

So I don't understand why it's not a more popular job with older single people. It obviously has the potential to pay quite well compared to Sydney's (?) median salary.

It is. Plenty of older dealers at the Star.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:13

drowned in pussy juice: Oct 13, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Mills posted:

I can't imagine it's very difficult to be a croupier.

You don't need any qualifications or anything obviously but apart from that why would you think it is particularly easy? Casinos are incredibly tight operations and the job requires a shitload of training and hand eye coordination. It gets a lot of applications and the competition is really fierce. It's literally the highest paying role in most casinos that doesn't actually require previous work experience in the same field.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:14

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Mills posted:

I'm not sure what 'average' pay is in Sydney but I seem to recall the median being 45k so it's pretty disingenuous to attempt to negatively associate the word average here.

It's about that if you include part-time workers. Median full-time is about 10k higher. Not that I was being disingenuous.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:16

Mills: Jun 13, 2003

Doctor Spaceman posted:

It's about that if you include part-time workers. Median full-time is about 10k higher. Not that I was being disingenuous.

I didn't know that so thank you!

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:18

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

I don't reckon they should pay penalty rates on Sunday. I reckon they should pay penalty rates on Monday.

gently caress Monday.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:22

Splode: Jun 18, 2013; put some clothes on you little freak

MC Eating Disorder posted:

You don't need any qualifications or anything obviously but apart from that why would you think it is particularly easy? Casinos are incredibly tight operations and the job requires a shitload of training and hand eye coordination. It gets a lot of applications and the competition is really fierce. It's literally the highest paying role in most casinos that doesn't actually require previous work experience in the same field.

You have to know all of the games back to front, you have to have magician level dexterity and hand-eye coordination, and after 8 hours of being abused by derelict gamblers and your mafia supervisor, you have to continue to put on a face of 'this is great, we're all having so much fun! Tell me more about how you're going to double your life savings, I'm sure it will work!'

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:27

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Pay penalty rates every day. To work for someone else is to be penalised even in the best possible world.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:29

drowned in pussy juice: Oct 13, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Yeah I didn't really mention the soul crushing depression because IMO it's still better than being a pokie attendant

Also wrt the hand wringing about penalty rates, correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression you only had to pay penalty rates if you paid your employees the bare minimum award wage for that industry?

drowned in pussy juice fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Sep 5, 2014

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:30

Senor Tron: May 26, 2006

Haters Objector posted:

The people I've spoken to reckon it sucks. Tuesday afternoon shifts where 100% of the customers are depressed gambling addicts, through to Saturday nights where the tables are full of drunk idiots spilling vodka red bulls over the table and trying to cheat/hit on the croupier/punch strangers.

I worked as a croupier for about 18 months a few years ago.

The most painful part for anyone looking to get into it is the fact that training for the job comprised of four weeks unpaid fulltime training, at the completion of which you get offered a position.

65K would be highend supervisor or possibly Pit Boss pay level, standard salary would be around 40K I'd guess.

That said, the conditions were good. Free food every shift, lots of breaks, and working on weekends was a goldmine due to the penalty rates.

I can't remember what the base rate was when I worked at the casino, but midnight to midnight saturday got 1.5 time pay, and Sunday midnight to midnight got 2 time pay. That meant I could work just a Friday and Saturday night (8pm-6am) and make the equivalent of 31 hours of pay. Great for a part time job.

It was soul destroying at times though, and the fact the money is good for easy work (once you get your skills up) combined with the fact that skills from working there aren't really transferrable elsewhere means that staff seemed to be split between people just there while studying, and lifers who had been there since opening day.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:37

Mr Chips: Jun 27, 2007; Whose arse do I have to blow smoke up to get rid of this baby?

Senor Tron posted:

The most painful part for anyone looking to get into it is the fact that training for the job comprised of four weeks unpaid fulltime training, at the completion of which you get offered a position.

How is that legal? Was it for a cert III in gaming services or something, or was it 'on the job' training?

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:55

Cirofren: Jun 13, 2005; Pillbug

What's being posted here is very different than what I hear from the half dozen or so people I know that have worked at Crown in Melbourne over the past five years dealing Roulette, Blackjack, Craps, Poker, among others.

They all want to transition out of it eventually, for sure, and some have gone on to teaching or banking. Most of them started in their early twenties, are now mid twenties, and love the conditions, free food, flexible hours (early outs and easy shift swapping), and have only good things to say about 80% of the supervisors.

They mostly boast about being well paid for easy work and complain about drunk patrons or employees who bitch about the union being a waste of time and money when in reality they've been getting them pay rises on the reg.

Then again Crown probably has thousands of staff and I only know nine of them.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:56

Cirofren: Jun 13, 2005; Pillbug

edit: that was the other button

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:57

Tirade: Jul 17, 2001; Cybertron must act decisively to prevent and oppose acts of genocide and violations of international robot rights law and to bring perpetrators before the Decepticon Justice Division; Pillbug

I worked a few years as a croupier about 15 years ago. For someone just out of high school it was an amazing job, paywise.

But like someone mentioned earlier it's absolutely soul destroying. If you have any empathy at all you'll quickly start to hate the industry and yourself for being a part of it. You'll see people ravaged by addiction and debt who still think that they'll find salvation at the blackjack table. You'll know the regulars by name and they'll know you too. Sometimes they'll come up to you on the street, thinking that you're a friend rather than someone who gets paid to smile and take their money. You'll have heavily pregnant women screaming at you for taking money that they need to look after their child. You'll have one or two regulars that won big on their first few nights on your table, and consider you their lucky charm even though you've taken it back from them many times over since.

and you'll be disciplined if you ever suggest to these tragic people that they should walk away.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 03:19

shalcar: Oct 21, 2009; At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.; Taco Defender

Being a croupier is horrifically soul destroying work that basically guts your ability to maintain a social life with people who are not shift workers and has all the "flexibility" of the liberal IR reforms. It's great for students because the crazy hours with penalties pays well, but I pity any adult who works it.

Source: I was a croupier to get me through uni and a friend who dropped out still does it.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 03:24

Amethyst: Mar 28, 2004; I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai

http://m.inthemix.com.au/news/58889/Police_push_for_lockout_expansion_to_Newtown

gently caress this lovely city.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 03:39

turdbucket: Oct 30, 2011

shalcar posted:

Being a croupier is horrifically soul destroying work that basically guts your ability to maintain a social life with people who are not shift workers and has all the "flexibility" of the liberal IR reforms. It's great for students because the crazy hours with penalties pays well, but I pity any adult who works it.

Source: I was a croupier to get me through uni and a friend who dropped out still does it.

Still better than being a kitchen hand, going to be great for them once they lose penalty rates and have to work 12 or more hour shifts every Saturday and Sunday. Not that this doesn't happen already but with penalty rates there is at least a small benefit to never seeing your friends and family (the benefit is having a little money leftover after you pay rent that week.)

# ? Sep 5, 2014 03:52

Senor Tron: May 26, 2006

Mr Chips posted:

How is that legal? Was it for a cert III in gaming services or something, or was it 'on the job' training?

It wasn't dealing with customers or actually doing any real work in any way (except for one 20 minute or so session on the main floor just to experience what it's like with real people), it's just all back of house training where you spend 40 hours a week for four works playing with chips and dealing cards to other trainees.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 03:52

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Amethyst posted:

http://m.inthemix.com.au/news/58889/Police_push_for_lockout_expansion_to_Newtown

gently caress this lovely city.

Whats wrong with the lockouts?

# ? Sep 5, 2014 04:05

Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

Soooo... ICAC is still going on.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/media-fights-suppression-order-over-mystery-emails-at-icac-20140905-10crsh.html

quote:

Media fights suppression order over mystery emails at ICAC

Media organisations have joined forces at a corruption inquiry to fight a suppression order over a controversial chain of emails involving a "very well known person" and a Liberal identity.

The emails, headed "Re Carbon Tax", were suppressed at the Independent Commission Against Corruption on Thursday after questions were raised about whether publishing the documents would breach parliamentary privilege.

Robert Newlinds, SC, the barrister for NSW Liberal Senator and former party president Arthur Sinodinos, wrote to the ICAC to alert the commission to the potential breach.

"The letter we wrote simply said that we were somewhat perturbed that there may be a breach by counsel assisting [Geoffrey Watson, SC] and the commission of the federal Parliamentary Privileges Act," Mr Newlinds told the hearing on Thursday afternoon.

"I don't really want to say out loud what the topic is because the private individual is a very well known person.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 04:19

Gough Suppressant: Nov 14, 2008

It's me.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 04:22

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

economy is fukt

quote:

A resources expert has forecast the iron ore price will continue to tumble as the Chinese economy begins "unravelling", causing significant issues for Australia.

Speaking at a conference on Thursday, the federal government's former top resources forecaster Quentin Grafton said the iron ore price was unlikely to recover quickly, leading to a painful downturn in the Australian economy in 2015.

"This isn't about doom and gloom, it's about looking at the risk and numbers. It's a clear and present danger," Mr Grafton said.

He said the Reserve Bank of Australia should prepare for a difficult ride as the overpriced property market and high dollar created a challenging economic environment as coal and iron ore prices dropped.

Home grown problem
Mr Grafton's comments join an increasingly vociferous choir of concern about the Chinese economy, with investor fears stoked by a Chinese residential property market that is experiencing its worst slump on record.

The average price of new homes has been falling in China for months, with the rate of decline accelerating from June (0.5 per cent) to July (0.8 per cent), sending tremors through the economy. It dropped another 0.6 per cent in August, bringing the average to $US1737 per square metre.

Property market issues are of critical concern for the Chinese economy and global investment community, as the property sector is a key economic driver that contributed 15 per cent of China's 2013 gross domestic product.

In a recent newsletter about the Chinese economy, Westpac analysts said real estate was the heart of domestic confidence issues and predicted a grim future for ongoing growth.

"Housing construction activity is vital to employment levels and land values are vital to the functioning of large swathes of the credit system," Westpac's Phat Dragon explained.

"In the early moments of a policy induced housing correction, the economy tends to be able to maintain its composure for a number of months, occasionally even quarters, before the ultimate capitulation."

Government help
Global market research group Nomura said the Chinese government intervention would be needed to prevent a decline in economic growth.

Nomura tracks a range of Chinese economic indicators, such as credit activity, each month. In June, 71 per cent of these were positive or "hot" but this dropped rapidly to 52 per cent in July.

A report released by Citi this week also said targeted government policies would be needed but warned significant intervention was unlikely.

"The central government is not in a rush to introduce nationwide policy to interrupt the market correction. The correction may last for three years, forcing capacity reduction," the report said.

Short of a sharp collapse in property investment, Citi said it was unlikely the government would loosen its overall credit policy.

"So far, targeted easing has been used, but broad-based loosening (such as RRR and rate cuts) may be needed late this year or next year," the report said.

Iron bond
China's property market woes are directly linked to the Australian economy as Chinese residential property construction is a leading consumer of iron ore, which accounts for $1 of every $5 of Australian exports.

The dropping demand and oversupply issues have caused the iron ore price to drop to a five year low. It is currently hovering around $US84.38 a tonne.

The next historic low would take a significant slide to $76 a tonne, a rate not seen since September 2009.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 04:25

Mr Chips: Jun 27, 2007; Whose arse do I have to blow smoke up to get rid of this baby?

Senor Tron posted:

It wasn't dealing with customers or actually doing any real work in any way (except for one 20 minute or so session on the main floor just to experience what it's like with real people), it's just all back of house training where you spend 40 hours a week for four works playing with chips and dealing cards to other trainees.

Pretty sure that's unpaid trial work or on the job training and dodgy as gently caress, unless they've got a specific exemption.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 04:28

Seagull: Oct 9, 2012; give me a chip

Gough Suppressant posted:

It's me.

All the talk of violently overthrowing tory governments was just a ruse, huh... Tony!

# ? Sep 5, 2014 04:30

Splode: Jun 18, 2013; put some clothes on you little freak

gay picnic defence posted:

Whats wrong with the lockouts?

The lockouts have achieved nothing, except for destroying what lovely nightlife sydney had, and worse, shifting the awful bogan brigade from wollongong, newcastle and the central coast from kings cross, where it was contained, out to Newtown and the actual good bars (which are now all poo poo). This will just move the problems to some other suburb.

Of course, what will actually happen is that they'll expand it to all of NSW and you'll never be able to go out for a drink after 10 anywhere.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 04:30

Gough Suppressant: Nov 14, 2008

Seagull posted:

All the talk of violently overthrowing tory governments was just a ruse, huh... Tony!

I would've got away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids

# ? Sep 5, 2014 04:35

Lizard Combatant: Sep 29, 2010; I have some notes.

Mr Chips posted:

Pretty sure that's unpaid trial work or on the job training and dodgy as gently caress, unless they've got a specific exemption.

Because casinos receiving special exceptions is unheard of :v:

# ? Sep 5, 2014 04:40

T-1000: Mar 28, 2010

Splode posted:

The lockouts have achieved nothing, except for destroying what lovely nightlife sydney had, and worse, shifting the awful bogan brigade from wollongong, newcastle and the central coast from kings cross, where it was contained, out to Newtown and the actual good bars (which are now all poo poo). This will just move the problems to some other suburb.

Of course, what will actually happen is that they'll expand it to all of NSW and you'll never be able to go out for a drink after 10 anywhere.

One of the big winners has been the Star casino, they're outside the lockout area. Presumably once the new casino is built it'll be exempt too.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 05:07

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

T-1000 posted:

One of the big winners has been the Star casino, they're outside the lockout area. Presumably once the new casino is built it'll be exempt too.

Probably, but the policy is up for review before it's finished.

Pyrmont Bridge Hotel is just outside the lockout area too, for some reason.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 05:18

ShoeFly: Dec 28, 2006; Waiter, there's a fly in my shoe!

T-1000 posted:

One of the big winners has been the Star casino, they're outside the lockout area. Presumably once the new casino is built it'll be exempt too.

They've already said the new casino is exempt.

Edit: this page has a map http://www.nsw.gov.au/newlaws

# ? Sep 5, 2014 05:18

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Splode posted:

The lockouts have achieved nothing, except for destroying what lovely nightlife sydney had, and worse, shifting the awful bogan brigade from wollongong, newcastle and the central coast from kings cross, where it was contained, out to Newtown and the actual good bars (which are now all poo poo). This will just move the problems to some other suburb.

Of course, what will actually happen is that they'll expand it to all of NSW and you'll never be able to go out for a drink after 10 anywhere.

But contained or not, people were being drunken fuckheads and causing problems. Is there a better solution to the whole violent drunk problem? I'd be inclined to think the lockout laws were just tories and cops cracking down on young people having fun but when you have people in hospitals coming out with stories about their friday and saturday nights it sounds like a pretty serious issue. PLus I wouldn't have thought the libs would hurt their buddies in the Hotels Association unless there was significant reason to.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 05:34

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

People are drunken fuckheads and cause problems whether there are lockout laws or not.

[insert Franklin quote on liberty and security here]

# ? Sep 5, 2014 05:40

Laserface: Dec 24, 2004

gay picnic defence posted:

Whats wrong with the lockouts?

They may as well just put up big neon signs with flashing arrows that say "GO TO THE loving CASINO" because thats all these loving lockouts are for.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 06:18

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 19:21

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/mutation-of-breast-cancer-gene-can-be-patented-says-federal-court-20140905-10ckfp.html

quote:

Mutation of breast cancer gene can be patented, says Federal Court

Date
September 5, 2014 - 12:48PM

Amy Corderoy
Health Editor, Sydney Morning Herald

View more articles from Amy Corderoy

Follow Amy on Twitter Email Amy

Cancer survivors and advocates are devastated at a decision by the full bench of the Federal Court on Friday morning that private companies have the right to control human genes.

They fear the decision in the so-called "breast cancer gene" case, which found a company could patent a mutation in the gene BRCA1, will stifle Australian research and lead to far higher costs for patients in need of potentially life-saving tests.

They have called on the federal government to intervene to change the laws concerning patents, which are the exclusive right to exploit new inventions.
The structure of the protein produced by the BRCA1 gene.

Maurice Blackburn, the lawyers that brought the case, have also vowed to fight it "to the end", flagging a potential appeal to the High Court of Australia.

Sally Crossing, from Cancer Voices Australia, said the decision was a "major missed opportunity", as human genes were integral parts of our bodies, not an invention that could be patented.

"This news is not good for cancer research, especially in the promising field of targeted therapies, or for people affected by any cancer," she said.

"The wider community has made it clear that it finds the patenting of human genes, bits of our own bodies, offensive and counter-intuitive."

Director of Advocacy at Cancer Council Australia, Paul Grogan, said that, if the unanimous Federal Court ruling was an interpretation of the law, then the law needed to change.

"In 2008, Australian women were only protected from an attempted commercial monopoly over the BRCA1 and BRCA2 tests because the company that threatened to take those tests away from public laboratories withdrew its patent claims voluntarily," he said.

"There was nothing in the law to protect healthcare consumers ... and there still isn't.

"The ruling is also out of step with the US Supreme Court, which found that the isolation of these genetic mutations in particular was not innovative and therefore not patentable."

He said Australia might now end up finding US companies enforcing patents here that they could not enforce in their home country, and that Australian researchers could be disadvantaged because they did not have the same access to discoveries as their US counterparts.

Krystal Barter, who carries a BRCA mutation and founded the charity Pink Hope, said she was uneasy that US company Myriad Generics still owned the gene and the breast cancer risk test.

"I hope to see the case prevail and for our genes to become our own again," she said.

Private companies in Australia cannot be granted patents over naturally occurring things.

But in February last year, Federal Court Justice John Nicholas ruled that the process of isolating the gene from the body was a way of manufacturing something new, and so it could be patented.

On Friday morning, the court upheld that decision.

It is a win for Myriad, and the owner of the Australian licence for the test, Genetic Technologies, after the US courts ruled mid-last year that isolating the genes did not constitute an invention, overturning thousands of gene patents there.

Rebecca Gilsenan, the principal lawyer at Maurice Blackburn, which fought the case on behalf of cancer survivor Yvonne D'Arcy, said the only way to overturn the decision would be if the firm was granted leave to appeal to the High Court. She said if that was not possible then people would have to lobby politicians to change the law.

"Yvonne D'Arcy is not the only person affected by this issue � this issue has far-reaching effects for Australia," she said.

"We are extremely disappointed that the Federal Court has made this decision ... [but] this is such an important issue that we are determined to take it to the end."

An intellectual property consultant, Luigi Palombi, said the decision was based on technicalities springing from another court decision in 1956. That case involved deciding whether a new method of spraying crops was able to be patented.

"It's a very black-letter approach," he said. "[The case they are basing their decision on] is more than 50 years old, and has nothing to do with biotechnology."

Well. This sucks.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 06:21

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