|
Prince John posted:Am I? Not paying your <insert tax here> is a criminal offence, isn't it?
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2024 16:42 |
|
|
quote:No one would be able to claim human rights to allow them to step outside the law that applies to all other citizens, for example a group of travellers claiming the right to family life to breach planning laws.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:29
|
|
|
Spangly A posted:I'm also laughing at the implication it's my fault my friends are dying due to negligence because I disagree with neoliberal policy, which is extremely open about being completely loving wrong on absolutely everything financial. Face it Bhyo: arguing maths with spangly is madness. From his dad, the chartered accountant whose failure to educate his children on everyday budgeting led his daughter to borrow thousands of pounds she could never have paid back if she lived to be a hundred, to his sister, the financial whizz kid whose thousands of pounds of debt have been written off due to circumstances far beyond her control or understanding, it is a family of heroes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:29
|
|
|
Spangly A posted:Yes, and you just did it again. So the argument you are making is that morally we should let people off this particular tax, because you think it's especially unfair? Do you not see how subjective that is, not to mention how unfair it is to everyone who actually forked out to pay the tax? For future taxes, should governments consult some sort of moral authority before enacting legislation? I get that it was a lovely tax - but that's just life.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:30
|
|
|
Burqa King posted:Face it Bhyo: arguing maths with spangly is madness. From his dad, the chartered accountant whose failure to educate his children on everyday budgeting led his daughter to borrow thousands of pounds she could never have paid back if she lived to be a hundred, to his sister, the financial whizz kid whose thousands of pounds of debt have been written off due to circumstances far beyond her control or understanding, it is a family of heroes. My sister had learning difficulties that went undiagnosed until she was 16 so yeah budgeting is not her strong point. I'm not sure how this impacts my understanding of econ though? Prince John posted:So the argument you are making is that morally we should let people off this particular tax, because you think it's especially unfair? Do you not see how subjective that is, not to mention how unfair it is to everyone who actually forked out to pay the tax? It's pretty unfair that the working class are being told to endure austerity while large companies openly flaunt tax evasion yes, I think a break on poll tax is reasonable. In a fair system I'd agree with you that we should be collecting poll tax in a reasonable manner involving civil authorities, means testing, and reasonable repayments. And yes, for future taxes, governments should work with proper economists. Governments should work with field specialists for a lot of things. I'm not sure why you think that's outlandish?
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:31
|
|
|
Coohoolin posted:And Johann Lamont is opposing this legislation. Do you have any links about this or are you just repeating something somebody told you without engaging your brain?
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:31
|
|
|
ultrabindu posted:Jack of Kent claims to have the full announcement of the Tory British Bill of Rights due to be delivered tomorrow.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:31
|
|
|
Cerv posted:non payment of poll tax is civil? not criminal Is it? An MP was imprisoned for not paying it, which I assumed meant we were in criminal territory.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:32
|
|
|
Burqa King posted:Face it Bhyo: arguing maths with spangly is madness. From his dad, the chartered accountant whose failure to educate his children on everyday budgeting led his daughter to borrow thousands of pounds she could never have paid back if she lived to be a hundred, to his sister, the financial whizz kid whose thousands of pounds of debt have been written off due to circumstances far beyond her control or understanding, it is a family of heroes. Jesus loving Christ dude, the gently caress is this?
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:33
|
|
|
Spangly A posted:My sister had learning difficulties that went undiagnosed until she was 16 so yeah budgeting is not her strong point. If she's a vulnerable person then I'm not sure that helping her hide her financial difficulties from her parents was the right course of action.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:34
|
|
|
Cerv posted:non payment of poll tax is civil? not criminal I believe once the court order you to pay it becomes a fine, and not paying a fine levied by the court is a criminal offence.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:34
|
|
|
Spangly A posted:My sister had learning difficulties that went undiagnosed until she was 16 so yeah budgeting is not her strong point. Might be worth getting a diagnosis yourself
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:35
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:If she's a vulnerable person then I'm not sure that helping her hide her financial difficulties from her parents was the right course of action. I didn't, I found out from my mother that the person whose debts my father helped collate and resolve to a payment plan was actually my sister. Burqa King posted:Might be worth getting a diagnosis yourself Hahahaha
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:35
|
|
|
Gonzo McFee posted:Jesus loving Christ dude, the gently caress is this? He brought it up. I'm just curious to see who he takes after most.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:36
|
|
|
Burqa King posted:He brought it up. I'm just curious to see who he takes after most. Not sure why I'd take after my sister Pissflaps posted:Your dad was his daughter's accountant and he didn't even know? outgoings: lots of alcohol incomings: not much isn't terribly specific for people my dad does accounts for but yeah I imagine he knows Spangly A fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Oct 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:36
|
|
|
Spangly A posted:I didn't, I found out from my mother that the person whose debts my father helped collate and resolve to a payment plan was actually my sister. Your dad was his daughter's accountant and he didn't even know?
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:36
|
|
|
Burqa King posted:He brought it up. I'm just curious to see who he takes after most. Get hosed you greasy little shitheel.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:36
|
|
|
I was forced to sit through that Saints and Scroungers program and oh my god it's awful, the presenter's continually stating 'it's just a small minority' yet the ratio of saints to scroungers is about 30/70 and it's all bad. Also, Prince John, if a person was due to be executed, escaped jail for a decade or two and wasn't captured until after the death penalty was scrapped, would you be obligated to murder him once in custody?
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:38
|
|
|
This thread started so well with lots of new posting friends coming to discuss contemporary British politics and current events in a spirit of good-natured fun 
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:38
|
|
|
Burqa King posted:Face it Bhyo: arguing maths with spangly is madness. From his dad, the chartered accountant whose failure to educate his children on everyday budgeting led his daughter to borrow thousands of pounds she could never have paid back if she lived to be a hundred, to his sister, the financial whizz kid whose thousands of pounds of debt have been written off due to circumstances far beyond her control or understanding, it is a family of heroes. Jesus christ
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:38
|
|
|
I don't like October, can we go back to September please? said the Russian nobility
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:40
|
|
|
Gonzo McFee posted:Get hosed you greasy little shitheel. Let's avoid ad hom attacks please, happy to debate this rationally if you are
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:41
|
|
|
Prince John posted:Is it? An MP was imprisoned for not paying it, which I assumed meant we were in criminal territory. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/the-poll-tax-courts-jail-civil-debtors-unlawfully-1569210.html magistrates have power to jail to enforce payments of civil debts. but it's not a punishment so that's ok. no i don't know why.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:41
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:Your dad was his daughter's accountant and he didn't even know? What?
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:42
|
|
|
Cerv posted:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/the-poll-tax-courts-jail-civil-debtors-unlawfully-1569210.html paupers prisons It's pretty hard to update an entire legal system when we notice bits of it might be hosed. Cerv posted:the long settled arguments of the early 90s must be resurected and fought again I think that was a  joke
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:43
|
|
|
LemonDrizzle posted:This thread started so well with lots of new posting friends coming to discuss contemporary British politics and current events in a spirit of good-natured fun the long settled arguments of the early 90s must be resurected and fought again
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:43
|
|
|
Cerv posted:the long settled arguments of the early 90s must be resurected and fought again Well that other guy said the poll tax was bad so therefore
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:44
|
|
|
ultrabindu posted:What? Isn't that what he said?
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:45
|
|
|
Burqa King posted:Let's avoid ad hom attacks please, happy to debate this rationally if you are Seriously, I'm sure it's possible to debate stuff without launching attacks on someone's family, regardless or not whether they've been mentioned in the thread before. Cerv posted:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/the-poll-tax-courts-jail-civil-debtors-unlawfully-1569210.html Thank you. I am educated.  Illuyankas posted:Also, Prince John, if a person was due to be executed, escaped jail for a decade or two and wasn't captured until after the death penalty was scrapped, would you be obligated to murder him once in custody? That's an amusing, but irrelevant, comparison. Collecting money owed is still an activity permissible under the law; murder would not be in your example.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:48
|
|
|
Prince John posted:So the argument you are making is that morally we should let people off this particular tax, because you think it's especially unfair? Do you not see how subjective that is, not to mention how unfair it is to everyone who actually forked out to pay the tax? How do you feel about Russia pursuing criminal convictions against Soviet-era Lithuanian draft dodgers?
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:49
|
|
|
Fans posted:It's the loving Poll Tax. Paying the Poll Tax for a "Fairer System" should only be done to make a satirical point. I was responding to the people who were saying that council tax is now a poll tax. The response to the poll tax itself did include a wider scope of action so that's why I'm curious if there is any plan to rejecting modern council tax beyond "it is bad so the poor shouldn't pay it".
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:51
|
|
|
Hungry posted:How do you feel about Russia pursuing criminal convictions against Soviet-era Lithuanian draft dodgers? That it's lovely, but presumably legal under the laws at the time? I'm morally opposed to most of the things Russia does these days though. Is it any different to America arresting people who fled to Canada to avoid the draft when they return? Do you not pursue treason charges against a spy, just because the war ended a couple of decades ago? I don't think that any of these things are nice, or morally right - I guess I just feel that if you break the law, you take your chances.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:53
|
|
|
ReV VAdAUL posted:I was responding to the people who were saying that council tax is now a poll tax. The response to the poll tax itself did include a wider scope of action so that's why I'm curious if there is any plan to rejecting modern council tax beyond "it is bad so the poor shouldn't pay it". I'd much rather it was both properly means tested and based on current property value so as to be progressive but given the lack of alternates that are realistic political goals no, it's tax dodging. The fines and any possible sentencing should absolutely be means tested though. Prince John posted:Do you not pursue treason charges against a spy, just because the war ended a couple of decades ago? no, you let them look after the Queen. Spangly A fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Oct 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:53
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:Isn't that what he said? I don't know, I'm too afraid to see how far the rabbit hole goes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:54
|
|
|
Zephro posted:I don't understand this one. It seems to be saying that if any existing law conflicts with human rights, then human rights are subservient. So Parliament could pass a law detention without charge (which they've done before; remember the 42-days-detention thing?) and that'd be tough luck for anyone who wanted to challenge that on human rights grounds? My reading as well. Not surprising since the whole point of this thing is to make it so that parliament decides what rights we have rather than some other body.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:55
|
|
|
Fans posted:They collected over a quarter of a million last year in Poll Tax debt. They are definitely not ignoring it. So that's 0.1% of an outstanding 300+ million of poll tax debt. Yes, they are ignoring it. This explains more about the current situation: http://www.advicescotland.com/poll-tax-indy-referendum/ The short version is that councils at this point can only collect poll tax debt if it has been 'relevantly acknowledged'. So basically the few hundred thousand represent people misguidedly voluntarily paying the poll tax debt when they don't have to. Writing off the poll tax seems a reasonable move, but it's ultimately one that is much less significant as it is made out to be. I suppose one might argue that there's some constitutional implications for the central scottish parliament to push this, when it should really be up to individual councils to write off the debt, as many have done, and will continue to do. Fangz fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Oct 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:55
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:Isn't that what he said? I don't think the dad was the daughters accountant, just that the mum asked him to look at someones finances and organise a repayment scheme they could take to the debt collectors without telling him who the person was. I'm a bit surprised they can still collect Poll Tax from 20 years ago, but then there's no statute of limitations on money owed to the council is there? It just seems to be a lot of hassle for them to go to to collect money that they can't have been expecting to get after this length of time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 16:58
|
|
|
hookerbot 5000 posted:
20 years if not chased, but Councils are always chasing so this never happens.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 17:01
|
|
|
Spangly A posted:If you're going to try to play realpolitik on predicting Tory responses to something then don't loving stop with render unto caeser, go full Jesus and call for open rebellion against the state. Which Jesus never did, or Pilate wouldn't have had to be pushed into executing him by the Sanhedrin. In fact, Jesus did exactly the opposite of calling for open rebellion by denying he had any temporal authority at every turn.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 17:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2024 16:42 |
|
|
Fangz posted:So that's 0.1% of an outstanding 300+ million of poll tax debt. Yes, they are ignoring it. Jesus, Glasgow really disliked the poll tax. £125m outstanding when no other council area has more than £30m?!
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2014 17:03
|
|