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HMS Boromir posted:I'm not sure what a tempo deck is, though, unless it actually is just "aggro, but you play bounce spells" A tempo deck is basically another name for aggro-control I think; basically, you want to play efficient creatures and spells and try to control the game until you manage to kill them.
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Oct 2, 2014 17:23
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Tempo can be thought of as gaining an advantage in some time-gated resource, whether that means a burst of mana, blanking one or more phases of an opponent's turn, drawing cards, destroying lands, ramping, pinning something to an opponent's deck-top, answering a threat with a less expensive counter or removal, etc. You only get one attack phase in an ordinary turn. Only one untap. Only one draw. Blank these phases for your opponent or maximize the value of your own and you gain tempo. Every deck uses tempo in one form or another. When people talk about a "tempo deck" they mean one that leans on these kinds of interactions to outrace the opponent. When you have an efficient clock, you can gain tempo on the opponent by blanking their turns with cheap counters or removal while presenting other cheap threats. Your four-drop just ate Mana Leak? Wow you just lost all of your turn other than the draw phase. More tempo for me!
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Oct 2, 2014 17:25
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Delver decks are good examples of 'tempo' decks- They rely on sticking early threats and backing them up with removal and counters. It's less about killing your opponent before they can execute their plan, and more about delaying their plan while you kill them.
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Oct 2, 2014 17:36
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Angry Grimace posted:I have no clue what "tempo" even means in terms of a deck or a card. Reid Duke had a good article about the basics of tempo as a Magic term on the Mothership last week. It's basically reducible to board advantage which is itself basically reducible to using your mana effectively. As far as a 'tempo deck' it's about using disruption to convert an early board advantage into a win. Delver of Secrets decks are a common example.
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Oct 2, 2014 17:52
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Holy crap, I just found out the guy who does some of my favourite art (Archangel of thune, for example, let's not talk about Triumph of Ferocity) James Ryman lives actually down the road from me. Time to get him to sign my tajic for my commander deck. 
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Oct 2, 2014 17:53
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Samael posted:Holy crap, I just found out the guy who does some of my favourite art (Archangel of thune, for example, let's not talk about Triumph of Ferocity) James Ryman lives actually down the road from me. Time to get him to sign my tajic for my commander deck. Do you....do you just walk up to the dude's door and knock with cards in hand or something  What's the protocol since it's not like 1960 where everyone actually knows their neighbors....
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Oct 2, 2014 17:56
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BaronVonVaderham posted:Do you....do you just walk up to the dude's door and knock with cards in hand or something My friend knows him, he got some Archangel of Thune and Angel of Glory Rise artist proofs from him for £5 each, so jealous  He's going to introduce me to him, I'm not just going to walk over to his house, that would be creepy.
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Oct 2, 2014 17:57
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lockdar posted:I always went for Dutch Control, always took a while for others to find out what I was playing. One guy even told me that orange wasn't a colour
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Oct 2, 2014 18:11
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apparently like half of the magic artist community lives near me. I'm friends/acquaintances with the guy who was the model for Village Bell Ringer back in Innistrad.
A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Oct 11, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 18:36
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Attorney at Funk posted:As far as old timey deck names go I've always been partial to The Baron Harkonnen.
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Oct 2, 2014 19:57
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Baron Harkonnen: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/timblock/14380_Sullivan_Library_Back_to_the_ProTour_Baron_Harkonnen_in_Time_Spiral_Block.html Mahamoti Djinn, a flying fat guy, was the Baron. EDIT: According to one of Mike Flores's better articles, Finding the Tinker deck, the big innovation in that deck was was adding green stuff, mainly Sylvan Library and Gaea's Blessing, to a blue permission shell. LordSaturn fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 20:09
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Veyrall posted:I gotta know, what deck went around with this name? It's a blue control deck that shuffles relevant cards back into the deck with Gaea's Blessing, it's sort of a more precise version of a recent Elixir of Immortality deck. Adrian Sullivan writes about the deck (various iterations across formats from 1997 to 2007) here.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:09
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Should I buy the various $105 shipped boxes of Khans on ebay. I'd be drafting it out with friends (hopefully more than just with my roommate), but am primarily looking to recoup value by selling/trading singles.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:11
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Valicious posted:Should I buy the various $105 shipped boxes of Khans on ebay. I'd be drafting it out with friends (hopefully more than just with my roommate), but am primarily looking to recoup value by selling/trading singles. Absolutely not. It's gambling with about the same odds.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:14
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Buying a box now might be worth it in 6 years if fetchlands go way way back up once they go out of print, but there's more reliable ways to make money. Like just buying fetchlands as singles.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:16
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Valicious posted:Should I buy the various $105 shipped boxes of Khans on ebay. I'd be drafting it out with friends (hopefully more than just with my roommate), but am primarily looking to recoup value by selling/trading singles. Go find the post you posted last time you cracked a box. You've answered your own question in the past!
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Oct 2, 2014 20:16
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Reid Duke's article on tempo is pretty good but I've always just thought of tempo as a deck and a playstyle as just being the result of value. Efficiency is + Value for yourself, and things like bounces or counters or frost lynx are -value for your opponent, both sides increase your tempo in relation to your opponent. Basically, just be LSV and always play for maximum value.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:40
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Value usually refers to card advantage, which is more of a Midrange thing - Tempo is definitely burning through cards trying to finish quickly, while Midrange grinds for value to make the game unwinnable. (Tempo is usually favored when they're matched up, because countered value engines rarely provide value.)
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Oct 2, 2014 20:46
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LordSaturn posted:Value usually refers to card advantage, which is more of a Midrange thing - Tempo is definitely burning through cards trying to finish quickly, while Midrange grinds for value to make the game unwinnable. (Tempo is usually favored when they're matched up, because countered value engines rarely provide value.) When you win while the opponent has three cards in hand that's basically an ancestral. Also strictly better than a time walk.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:58
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Talking about tempo as board presence like Duke does neglects that there are major tempo swings that have nothing to do with you or the opponent putting something on board. Look at it in terms of using/amplifying the use of all the phases of your turn or denying your opponent the use of theirs. Haste lets you make use of an attack phase you otherwise wouldn't get to. Consider having a guy with haste. It's a tempo gain that has nothing to do with board presence (you had board presence whether your guy has haste or not but now you get to make use of an extra attack phase!). Having your lands tapped down (e.g. Rishadan Port) denies you non-instant-speed use of your untap phase. Still nothing about board presence. Nehru the Damaja fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 21:09
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I'm putting together Mono Red Aggro to play at TCG States this weekend and I see that Eidolon of the Great Revel is basically a 3-4 of in the board of every top placing version of the deck from last weekend. Which of the currently extant Standard decks do you bring it in against? Jeskai Burn? Abzan? I mean I guess last weekend everyone had it just in case they came up against control decks, but is it safe to leave out so that I can put different cards in there since it's unlikely that I'll see a control deck this weekend?
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Oct 2, 2014 21:20
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Talking about tempo as board presence like Duke does neglects that there are major tempo swings that have nothing to do with you or the opponent putting something on board. Yes exactly. I regard tempo as the translation of some limited, time gated, resource into board presence. Usually 'ability to generate mana to cast spells' that affect the board. Thus, plays can be tempo positive, negative, or neutral. Playing a creature is tempo positive. You've translated a card in your hand, by using the lands you've played, into a threat on the board. Unsummon is also tempo positive. Cast against me it undoes the tempo I gained when I 'used up' my turn playing the creature. That is, tempo is loosely zero sum. What's negative tempo for me is positive tempo for my opponent. Unsummon is tempo positive but card disadvantage. I still have my creature and you are down your spell. But a tempo deck is happy to trade card disadvantage for strong positive tempo. A tempo deck's game plan is to maintain a board advantage through tempo long enough to win the game before running out of cards. That is why cheap counterspells that 'trade up' countering larger investments are good for tempo decks, or the king of tempo cards: Remand. Also why tempo is the gameplan of an agro-control deck: Play supercheap threats to create an initial board advantage, and then deny, counter, or delay your opponents development.
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Oct 2, 2014 21:30
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jassi007 posted:Go find the post you posted last time you cracked a box. You've answered your own question in the past! Wasn't sure given the crazy value on a lot of the cards right now. Also given some of the posts in te buying/selling thread.
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Oct 2, 2014 21:53
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Did many Morph creatures see play at SCG last weekend. Could be an interesting aspect of the format, but I don't now if any of them are constructed cards.
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Oct 2, 2014 21:55
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Valicious posted:Wasn't sure given the crazy value on a lot of the cards right now. Also given some of the posts in te buying/selling thread. It's still a huge lottery, and as time goes on the cost of cards will drop to meet the cost of cracking boxes open for those cards. Unless you think A) you'll win the pack lottery and B) that prices will hold long enough for you to successfully trade into more value, it's not worth it. Basically it isn't worth it. Even with the thread to move cards you probably can't get the boxes, open all the packs, inventory everything, and move the high dollar cards before someone does something and the price of cards drops into the gutter.
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Oct 2, 2014 21:56
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Boco_T posted:I'm putting together Mono Red Aggro to play at TCG States this weekend and I see that Eidolon of the Great Revel is basically a 3-4 of in the board of every top placing version of the deck from last weekend. It's great against anything that is trying to one for one you with removal.
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Oct 2, 2014 21:58
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BizarroAzrael posted:Did many Morph creatures see play at SCG last weekend. Could be an interesting aspect of the format, but I don't now if any of them are constructed cards. Just the mythic red Phoenix in a couple sideboards. There might have been some Temur decks using Rattleclaw or Sagu Mauler, but none of them made top 8.
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Oct 2, 2014 21:59
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Entropic posted:Just the mythic red Phoenix in a couple sideboards. There might have been some Temur decks using Rattleclaw or Sagu Mauler, but none of them made top 8.
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Oct 2, 2014 22:33
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neetengie posted:Grim Haruspex was in the sideboard of mono black aggro decks too I think, but yeah there weren't many morph cards. Would you even bother casting that one as a morph ever in Constructed?
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Oct 2, 2014 22:35
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While not from the scg opens this past weekend, this one has rattleclaws and 4 icefeather avens. http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1215661
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Oct 2, 2014 22:43
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Entropic posted:Would you even bother casting that one as a morph ever in Constructed? One of the mono-black players played it face down on stream, so yes. He even got to unmorph it in response to his other creature getting targeted by removal.
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Oct 2, 2014 22:49
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There's no disadvantage to playing it face down if you're swimming in mana, but is there any other morph you could conceivably be playing in a mono-black deck? I guess it could be Ruthless Ripper. I think you could remove the morph ability and the card would have exactly the same level of constructed playability.
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Oct 2, 2014 22:59
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Entropic posted:There's no disadvantage to playing it face down if you're swimming in mana, but is there any other morph you could conceivably be playing in a mono-black deck? I guess it could be Ruthless Ripper. I think you could remove the morph ability and the card would have exactly the same level of constructed playability. Week 1, against an opponent who hasn't paid enough attention to the spoiler you get to "get em" with the morph, but after that, yeah it's irrelevant.
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Oct 2, 2014 23:04
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mehall posted:Week 1, against an opponent who hasn't paid enough attention to the spoiler you get to "get em" with the morph, but after that, yeah it's irrelevant. You could use the morph ability to save a whole mana off equipping Ghostfire Blade!
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Oct 2, 2014 23:10
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Valicious posted:Wasn't sure given the crazy value on a lot of the cards right now. Also given some of the posts in te buying/selling thread. Right now the EV of a khans box is actually pretty good where some people are cracking boxes and making their money back but this window will likely close soon and unless you are an active trader/dealer its not worth it (taking into account ebay fees, shipping, etc) However if you are using it to draft or opening for fun there are worse ways to spend your money.
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Oct 2, 2014 23:19
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On the subject of Phoenixes, I wonder if Flame-Wreathed Phoenix is going to be any good now that theres less unconditional removal.
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Oct 2, 2014 23:25
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I find it funny that on reddit there is a number of threads in the MTG subreddit that is basically "OMG I GOT A MISCUT COMMON! HOW RICH AM I?!?!"
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Oct 2, 2014 23:30
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Sotar posted:I find it funny that on reddit there is a number of threads in the MTG subreddit that is basically "OMG I GOT A MISCUT COMMON! HOW RICH AM I?!?!" But my miscut TREASURE CRUISE!!!
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Oct 2, 2014 23:31
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Count Bleck posted:But my miscut TREASURE CRUISE!!! I will give you like 13 fetches for that.
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Oct 2, 2014 23:33
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Sotar posted:I will give you like 13 fetches for that. 
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Oct 2, 2014 23:52
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