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IronicDongz posted:like I have over 1500 games, play like poo poo, generally speaking, and have never been killed by a mimic. I've never even seen someone get killed by a mimic I've been threatened by mimics before, I think when the change was made to have different types. I think they got nerfed at some point right after that. They're not really deadly now.
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Oct 6, 2014 00:59
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IronicDongz posted:like I have over 1500 games, play like poo poo, generally speaking, and have never been killed by a mimic. I've never even seen someone get killed by a mimic I bet I could've managed it, but I'm playing trunk now.
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Oct 6, 2014 00:59
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I was killed by a mimic once because I wasn't paying attention, got unlucky, and it poisoned the hell out of me and I didn't have any potions. Just once, though.
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Oct 6, 2014 01:02
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I have been killed indirectly by a mimic before, because it was the door to a bee-vault and took off half my health before dying and revealing a dozen angry bees. E: What I'm saying is that you should fill mimics with bees so that when they bark they shoot bees at you.
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Oct 6, 2014 01:10
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I've been killed by the mimic item vault because I was tabbing through it and stepped into a group and got constricted. Vine Stalker, so I couldn't even spam !HW to bruteforce my way through it.
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Oct 6, 2014 01:11
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BigFactory posted:I've been threatened by mimics before, I think when the change was made to have different types. I think they got nerfed at some point right after that. They're not really deadly now. Got you guys covered! 141 died by inept scroll mimic 134 died by inept statue mimic 110 died by inept pile of gold mimic 75 died by inept potion mimic 74 died by inept fountain mimic 71 died by inept escape hatch mimic 17 died by inept ring mail mimic 16 died by inept dagger mimic 11 died by inept club mimic 11 died by inept robe mimic 89 died by statue mimic 89 died by weapon mimic 82 died by scroll mimic (last one by our very own PleasingFungus!) 72 died by pile of gold mimic 69 died by fountain mimic (the same amount who have died by the severe capriciousness of Xom) 67 died by potion mimic 65 died by shop mimic 55 died by mimic (probably older versions) 35 died by armour mimic 32 died by escape hatch mimic 32 died by portal mimic 17 died by stair mimic 21 died by ravenous pile of gold mimic 20 died by ravenous door mimic 16 died by ravenous staircase mimic 13 died by ravenous scroll mimic 13 died by ravenous statue mimic 11 died by ravenous potion mimic And the rest are < 10 deaths, including 2 by ravenous rune mimics, ravenous stone mimics, ravenous trap mimics, and one encrusted hand axe mimic.
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Oct 6, 2014 01:12
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amuayse posted:What's the point of mimics then if they don't attack you? The reasoning was something like, mimics serve 2 functions: 1) make you lose out on the item being represented 2) be a monster of some degree of difficulty They fulfilled #1 well but the problem with number 2 was that either they would be too easy (which is basically how they'd ended up) or they'd be so difficult that it would be optimal to treat everything in the dungeon with undo caution. So basically, in theory, having them go up in a puff of smoke lets them keep doing #1 well and eliminates them doing a mediocre job at #2. I could be getting this all wrong, but that was my understanding from the patch notes. After playing with the change, I would not be surprised if they end up getting removed altogether. Just having something go up in smoke after auto-exploring into it is kind of odd and sort of a non-event.
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Oct 6, 2014 01:13
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Kekekela posted:The reasoning was something like, mimics serve 2 functions: You're in tune to the game and the philosophy as much as anyone: Is a facet of the game simply being mediocre a good reason to get rid of it in your opinion? I agree with your analysis about mimics, but still think that they're kinda funny and cool even though they're not really super threatening.
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Oct 6, 2014 01:20
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Arrhythmia posted:Nah, he used to summon weapons of orc-slaying, but since that was axed they just looked at the list of scary brands and picked one. The full story is somewhat stranger: (1) Once, long ago, Beogh could be worshipped by non-orcs. (He still only let you lead an army of orcs, but non-orcs could be the Orcish Messiah.) (2) Beogh (as you said) sent orc-slaying weapons after sinners, but obviously that was pointless for non-orcish Beogh former-worshippers; so the devs chose elec essentially arbitrarily as a replacement brand for them. (3) Then, years later, orc-slaying was removed, so elec-branded dancing weapons were all that were left. They now make no thematic sense at all, but, you know. Crawl! Oddly, at one point, Beogh could actually give your followers electric-branded weapons. This was reverted for being a Bad Idea, but elec brand was in fact nearly a Beogh Thing at that point. Ferrinus posted:Hydra Form would be cooler if it were "Hydra Aspect" and applied cleaving attack + enemy eating to whatever form you were already in. It sucks that almost all of transmutations is mutually exclusive with itself. I'd argue this really isn't true. Hydra Aspect is a charm, a stacking buff. Hydra Form is a transmutation, a single, exclusive tool, locking out certain capabilities and options, appropriate to certain situations. Both have their place, but I think the latter is what Transmutations should be about and should focus on*. Certainly there's a lot of unexplored design space there - right now Tmut is mainly about "trading off [all/most] of your equipment to get better unarmed combat and specific resists", which, I mean, fine, that's a reasonable archetype to support. But there should be more reason for characters who aren't in that very narrow archetype to pick up tmut - more spells a bit like Statue Form and Necromutation, as much of a hot design mess as the latter is. ...hydra form doesn't address that at all, but it seemed like a fun thing to include in the game, so I added it! *There might be room for other mechanics in Transmutations - e.g. sticks-to-snakes-like "trading permanent resources for effects" spells, or mechanics that play with mutation/contamination, but so far no good ones have been designed... PleasingFungus fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 01:23
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PleasingFungus posted:I'd argue this really isn't true. Hydra Aspect is a charm, a stacking buff. Hydra Form is a transmutation, a single, exclusive tool, locking out certain capabilities and options, appropriate to certain situations. Both have their place, but I think the latter is what Transmutations should be about and should focus on. Charms don't give you extra body parts. If you wanted to make such a spell Charms/Transmutations I could see the reasoning, but with basically every transmutation of any note whatsoever (including Blade Hands, which just changes your drat hands! come on!) being mutually exclusive with any other except for like stoneskin/statueform and icearmor/iceform, the entire spell school seems to boil down to picking one form and living inside 90% of the time. It's true that a lot of schools of magic seem to boil down to "ah, at last, I can cast the one good spell, time to wash my hands of the rest of this garbage", but it seems a shame for something as cool as hydra form to just join the rest of transmutations in the pile of stuff you tossed dismissively over your shoulder before taking a deep breath, casting dragon form (or statue form or w/e), and never exhaling.
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Oct 6, 2014 01:42
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IronicDongz posted:like I have over 1500 games, play like poo poo, generally speaking, and have never been killed by a mimic. I've never even seen someone get killed by a mimic The only mimic I recall getting killed by was on a clusterfuck abyss banishment. Killed by an exit from the abyss-mimic. That was particularly cruel.
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Oct 6, 2014 01:51
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I think I got killed by a mimic on D:2 or something once because it was too fast to run from.
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Oct 6, 2014 01:53
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IronicDongz posted:but The actual reason for the removal of mimics was precisely this, per the commit, IDK why nicholae was claiming it was the exact opposite. I do see realize bizarre reasoning like that used a lot though...
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Oct 6, 2014 01:57
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That said I don't really see a reason to keep mimics in the game if they don't fight you beyond annoying the player. Maybe there's plans for a redesign?
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Oct 6, 2014 01:59
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The only mimics we need are hermit crabs wearing the items as their shells.
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Oct 6, 2014 02:09
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Mimic suggestion: Item/gold mimics actually are what they appear to be, but they run away when found. If you don't kill them fast enough they vanish, teleporting out of the dungeon. edit: Also, Xom can animate stuff on the floor to do the same thing for fun. Xom should do this anyway as a bad effect. Prism fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 02:13
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Ferrinus posted:Charms don't give you extra body parts. If you wanted to make such a spell Charms/Transmutations I could see the reasoning, but with basically every transmutation of any note whatsoever (including Blade Hands, which just changes your drat hands! come on!) being mutually exclusive with any other except for like stoneskin/statueform and icearmor/iceform, the entire spell school seems to boil down to picking one form and living inside 90% of the time.
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Oct 6, 2014 02:15
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FR: transmut spell which turns your jewelry into friendly magical constructs, fighting for you and locking your ring/amulet slots for the duration of the spell(ring of fire->fire elemental, ring of poison resistance->spider, amulet of regeneration->troll of some sort, etc.)
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Oct 6, 2014 02:17
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Ferrinus posted:Charms don't give you extra body parts. If you wanted to make such a spell Charms/Transmutations I could see the reasoning, but with basically every transmutation of any note whatsoever (including Blade Hands, which just changes your drat hands! come on!) being mutually exclusive with any other except for like stoneskin/statueform and icearmor/iceform, the entire spell school seems to boil down to picking one form and living inside 90% of the time. All of these spells have their unique advantages and disadvantages. Blade Hands makes gives you some of the most damaging melee in the game at the cost of no wands and melding your shield. Statue form gives you an AC bonus and great melee damage, but also melds most of your armour and slows you down, which makes it a great option for character that lack another source of AC (felids and octopodes in particular) but bad for characters that are getting a lot of AC (and potentially resists) from the armour it melds. It's also a significant xp investment, at lvl 6 with two schools. On the other hand, it also improves melee damage with a weapon, so there's a reason to take it even if you aren't a UC character, and I've used it many times on EEs. Dragon form is a huge investment and destroys your AC/EV but gives you +50% HP, incredible melee and some useful resists, which synergizes well with berserking but is sort of lackluster IMO. You probably never want to use all of these spells at once, (with the exception of blade hands and statue form, which I actually did use at the same time on my FeCK depending on whether I wanted to haste myself to deal with the statue form slowdown or not), but there is definitely a strategic, character-development perspective in choosing which you're aiming for. Rather than letting them stack, (which would be a total disaster because it would either make UC+transmutations even more OP or force a nerf), it would be better to add new synergies and new spells that could supplement existing transmutations in inventive ways. Not sure about hydra form but it sounds like it's actually moving the school in the direction you want - it's not something you'd walk around in 24/7 but rather something you'd pick up and use situationally when you want a cleaving attack and innate vamp rather than the straight damage blade hands or statue form offered.
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Oct 6, 2014 02:21
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quote:You finish putting on the +0 faerie dragon armour {MP+4 Str-3 Dex-1}.
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Oct 6, 2014 02:21
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IronicDongz posted:yeah transmut is my favorite school thematically but this is part of why it's my least favorite mechanically. I think I'd really like it way more if you could stack up things, turn into a stone multi-headed dragon. melding slots is the more noteworthy aspect in my mind than not being stackable. A character with 27 UC and [insert trasmutation spell here] is already an iNsAnElY powerful character that does more damage than an ogre with a GSC. If you could stack them it would be a complete joke.
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Oct 6, 2014 02:22
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And and please don't gently caress with lichform, it's the only thing that makes postgame bearable.
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Oct 6, 2014 02:31
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Thug Lessons posted:And and please don't gently caress with lichform, it's the only thing that makes postgame bearable. Statue form 
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Oct 6, 2014 02:32
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Statue form used to have some sort of partial rTorm I think, but now all it has is rN+.
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Oct 6, 2014 02:34
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BigFactory posted:You're in tune to the game and the philosophy as much as anyone: Is a facet of the game simply being mediocre a good reason to get rid of it in your opinion?
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Oct 6, 2014 02:39
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Lichform is now a short term effect like cblink or cteleport. This is because it was found that some players, trying to 'play optimally' would just cast lichform all the time!!! This was deemed 'boring'. All other spells, requiring extra button inputs to be used 'optimally', are on the chopping block in a new version of crawl being tested on cszo that tries out tab-only gameplay. Pressing too many buttons to find an 'optimal' playstyle was deemed counter to crawl's design philosophy.
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Oct 6, 2014 02:41
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IronicDongz posted:like I have over 1500 games, play like poo poo, generally speaking, and have never been killed by a mimic. I've never even seen someone get killed by a mimic The only time I remember dying to a mimic was being teleported next to one by Xom at low health on D:3. That was a sad way to lose a Troll after just taking out Terence (to whom Xom gave a distortion halberd).
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Oct 6, 2014 02:54
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Thug Lessons posted:Statue form used to have some sort of partial rTorm I think, but now all it has is rN+. 50% reduction on torment damage is still a thing (unless this was removed very recently in trunk). That said, statue form is much better on extended when your base health is huge (ogre/troll HP) to help soak up hellfire hits. Being slow around hellions is no joke. I like Lich form better because it doesn't meld any equipment and with a source of clarity, your biggest worries become holy branded weapons and dispel undead, both of which are much easier to work around than torment. v  v
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Oct 6, 2014 03:03
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Any general tips for TrMo? I've been playing one lately, bouncing between Okawaru and Cheibriados. Furthest I've gotten is Shoals:5 (Okawaru) after clearing Lair 1-7 and part of Lair 8, but I was ambushed on Shoals 5 and just couldn't get away from a mob. I'm not really having a reliable way to restore life after taking a big hit other than trying to run/stair/blink/teleport away and just wait. Some general questions I have for this build: 1) What kind of armor should I be shooting for long-term? I've been using enchanted robes and cloaks, mostly, because a lot of armor pieces I find are 'too small.' 2) Should I worry about training throwing? I wondered if some type of ranged ability would have helped me in the Shoals, but throwing stones so far doesn't seem very effective (haven't taken it very far). 3) I've been assuming I should just focus on unarmed for the duration, but should I worry about training any other type of weapon? Okawaru gave me a nice crossbow on that run, but it didn't seem feasible to worry with it at that point (I was level 14 I think). 4) Should I be putting stat points into anything other than strength?
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Oct 6, 2014 03:20
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Thug Lessons posted:Statue form used to have some sort of partial rTorm I think, but now all it has is rN+. Unless there was some horrible trunk change I'm unaware of (and I doubt it because apparently people other than me still think statue form sucks), statue form still gives a flat 50% reduction to all torment damage that stacks with rN. So torment is barely an issue for someone in statue form. It also lets you ignore the more annoying hell effects/mummy curses like rot. Its my main spell for making the extended game tolerable since necromutation is WAY harder to cast.
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Oct 6, 2014 03:26
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68k posted:
1 - Some kind of dragon armor, also a shield. 2 - Yes, large rocks hit like trucks. 3 - Just unarmed. 4 - Dex is probably better.
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Oct 6, 2014 03:28
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2. Definitely develop throwing. With throwing and large rocks, you can deal out insane damage at range. I had a TrBe that occasionally one-shot Stone Giants with thrown large rocks. It's basically the long-range counterpart to the Troll's deadly melee. 3. Okawaru likes to give out a range of tempting crap to get you to split your XP/waste your time. Trolls have crap aptitudes at most things and are generally better off focusing on what they're good at: unarmed combat, throwing and fighting. 4. Put all your points into Dex. Trolls start with sufficient strength and dex provides better returns in the form of EV increases. You might want to put a point or two into Str near endgame if you want to wear Gold Dragon Armor and don't yet have the strength to overcome the encumbrance penalty, but for early game, Dex is far better.
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Oct 6, 2014 03:29
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You want dragon armour of some kind. I just won a troll in GDA but I don't even think that's optimal, probably PDA/FDA/IDA are the sweet spot though the latter two will require you do something about the -rC/-rF. You also want a shield, possibly of the large variety. I usually put a few points into throwing but not that much, large rocks don't benefit from it that much. Just do UC. You can put points into either str or int, depending on what type of armour you'll be wearing and whether you want to cast spells or not, (str is better in really heavy armour like GDA for most purposes, lower you probably want int unless you're going to ignore spellcasting entirely).
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Oct 6, 2014 03:29
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I don't really see a reason to put any points into dex on a troll. You're never going to dodge anything anyway.
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Oct 6, 2014 03:30
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Internet Kraken posted:Unless there was some horrible trunk change I'm unaware of (and I doubt it because apparently people other than me still think statue form sucks), I'm rolling a DrTm slow bro right now and I can confirm Statue Form is the poo poo on wheels.
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Oct 6, 2014 03:32
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68k posted:Any general tips for TrMo? I've been playing one lately, bouncing between Okawaru and Cheibriados. Furthest I've gotten is Shoals:5 (Okawaru) after clearing Lair 1-7 and part of Lair 8, but I was ambushed on Shoals 5 and just couldn't get away from a mob. I'm not really having a reliable way to restore life after taking a big hit other than trying to run/stair/blink/teleport away and just wait. 1) Whatever you like, though dragon armour of some kind is usually going to be your best bet for lategame AC/EV/Resists. An enchanted robe is fine for most of the midgame. 2) YES. Throwing is awesome even when you can't use large rocks, and it's doubly so with them. Throwing should be your second most important skill after unarmed. 3) Unarmed all the way for melee. If you weren't a troll I'd say getting a non-throwing ranged weapon could be viable but with troll apts & large rocks you should be going for throwing. 4) Yes, definitely. You already have tons of strength as a troll, getting int to get spells available or Dex to improve your ev is more important. Getting haste castable is not an impossible goal for a troll, and I even got DDoor castable with brilliance on my Troll win. Even if you don't go for extended to get the xp nessecary, getting int can let you get easier spells like regeneration or portal proj up.
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Oct 6, 2014 03:34
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Mimics should scream loudly and mark you instead and replace random alarm traps.
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Oct 6, 2014 03:40
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Also yeah I guess statue form does give %50 rTorm still, it just doesn't say it does on learndb. My bad.
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Oct 6, 2014 03:43
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Cleared everything else except Extended so I'm doing Zot, and I realize I have literally no rF, and my only options are a ring of Fire (good for Firestorm, bad for Glaciate) and a single ring of rF+. I don't want to give up either of my good rings. Then I remember I left one of those bazaars with no timeout alone in Vaults. The last shop in that bazaar has a randart cloak. I put it on and... +2 cloak of rF++. Thanks, Crawl!
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Oct 6, 2014 04:13
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Why do you have both Firestorm and Glaciate castable before even starting postgame?
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Oct 6, 2014 04:33
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