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Narcissus1916 posted:Rocker was entertaining, and there's a pretty large black hole of charisma with him gone. Not the strongest of starts for a season, at all. The editing crew is holding back on stuff over there; Saving it. There is no way harmonious hippie bliss is occurring.
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Oct 9, 2014 07:22
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This season has seemed kinda bad so far. As others have said they are trying to paint josh as a mastermind but his strategy has been pretty questionable so far. Dumbest group of contestants since one world?
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Oct 9, 2014 07:58
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HyperPuma posted:This season has seemed kinda bad so far. As others have said they are trying to paint josh as a mastermind but his strategy has been pretty questionable so far. Way too early to write the season off, but I'm pretty unimpressed so far. Hopefully things improve from here.
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Oct 9, 2014 08:04
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Voting out Rocker was very stupid. You knew he had an idol and was the most likely target of the other tribe in a post-merge situation. That is GREAT! They wont have the votes to split them so you can make stuff happen. Additionally Rocker will never be able to built an alliance with a majority group from the other alliance against you, another point in his favor. Baylor single handedly lost them immunity this week (I dont get why she was throwing and not Josh) and is now in a great situation to flip on her tribe come merge. Josh/Reed need to be in a dominant position come merge to survive and not end up like Bukauskas brothers as first and second post merge boot. On the other hand I'm glad that Rocker is gone because now we have two tribes of "unknown" people and will no longer have to bother with people's past transgressions. It seems to me that Julie will be brought back into the fold very fast by Missy, who is 3 times divorced and has no problem seeing John as the evil dude that screwed over his girlfriend, who is the victim in this and has to be supported.
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Oct 9, 2014 08:53
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I'm not writing off the season, and I know that a survivor season can turn on a dime into something pretty great relatively easily. But is there really no goofy or intense or memorable bits happening on the other tribe, like, at all? IIRC last year's season had a great tension in the early going with the Brawn tribe - waiting for the day they'd have to actually start playing the game. There was tension and suspense there, whereas this time around I just have a giant shrug around most of the cast.
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Oct 9, 2014 09:30
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Rocker was a bad player, but for the others to gang up on him for stuff he said 20 years ago was ridiculous. It seemed like the other team didn't even know what he said, only that he said something bad, and then they called him a bad sport for getting yelled at by them???
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Oct 9, 2014 09:43
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Bigass Moth posted:Rocker was a bad player, but for the others to gang up on him for stuff he said 20 years ago was ridiculous. It seemed like the other team didn't even know what he said, only that he said something bad, and then they called him a bad sport for getting yelled at by them??? I'm sure he talked a little trash, but it was pretty lovely of them to dogpile him for his (admittedly atrocious) comments from years ago. I'd like to think it was clever strategy on the part of the opposing tribe to get these idiots to vote out their best athelete while losing challenges like crazy, but I doubt any of them are that smart.
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Oct 9, 2014 09:47
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This is such a bland group of nothing people. Usually There is at least one person that I really like, someone I can get behind and cheer for, and be keen to hear from them in podcasts and stuff, but this season has nobody - It doesn't even have an interesting villain. I'm calling it as the worst season since one world. And probably second only to one world if we go back a bunch of seasons further.
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Oct 9, 2014 10:50
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Bigass Moth posted:Rocker was a bad player, but for the others to gang up on him for stuff he said 20 years ago was ridiculous. It seemed like the other team didn't even know what he said, only that he said something bad, and then they called him a bad sport for getting yelled at by them??? In their defense Rocker's said and done so many inflammatory and derogatory things, it's hard to keep track of them all. And big guys make big targets and often get voted out early. Cliff Robinson was liked by his tribe and still had his flame snuffed before the merge. And getting rid of Rocker will probably give us more time with the other castaways so we'll get to know more about them and their gameplay.
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Oct 9, 2014 10:59
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This season is very underwhelming. If I miss an episode for some reason I can see me just never getting back into it.
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Oct 9, 2014 11:15
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Bigass Moth posted:Rocker was a bad player, but for the others to gang up on him for stuff he said 20 years ago was ridiculous. It seemed like the other team didn't even know what he said, only that he said something bad, and then they called him a bad sport for getting yelled at by them??? He never stopped saying "stuff"
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Oct 9, 2014 12:20
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There has never been a more perfect goat than John Rocker, what a waste of a potential asset.
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Oct 9, 2014 13:22
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Wes's stock went up for me a bit this episode. He had some nice moments with his dad in the reward challenge, and did a good job of answering two questions from Jeff at TC without raising John's suspicions (and I felt like Jeff's questions might have been specifically engineered to scare John into playing the idol).
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Oct 9, 2014 13:25
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I didn't even think about this until this morning, but it's really hilarious that Natalie's dipshit twin managed to be 10x more offensive and ignorant in three days than John Rocker did in triple the time. Say what you will about Rocker, but he wasn't the one being hilariously vocal about how he basically considered gay men to be women.
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Oct 9, 2014 13:43
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Fast Luck posted:The Twinnie, of course, really stirred that poo poo up, but, wow, John Rocker is kind of giving me the creeps. The way he was so silent like he was gonna hold his tongue, say nothing and play it safe, but then coming out with just a couple comments, both about fighting people, and then going silent again... Freaky That was pretty funny. I also liked how people were told not to make Rocker suspicious and then Jaclyn(?) says all that poo poo at tribal and is so lucky Rocker didn't play his idol for whatever reason because that was a huge warning sign she put up. Overall though, it's not too engaging yet...
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Oct 9, 2014 14:01
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Bigass Moth posted:Rocker was a bad player, but for the others to gang up on him for stuff he said 20 years ago was ridiculous. It seemed like the other team didn't even know what he said, only that he said something bad, and then they called him a bad sport for getting yelled at by them??? We've seen two gross misogynistic comments from him in two episodes, one of them directed at his girlfriend. He's a toxic person, and I'm glad he's gone. I'm looking forward to Baylor's inevitable win. CODChimera posted:That was pretty funny. I also liked how people were told not to make Rocker suspicious and then Jaclyn(?) says all that poo poo at tribal and is so lucky Rocker didn't play his idol for whatever reason because that was a huge warning sign she put up. That was the edit. Everything Jaclyn said was consistent with the idea that they were voting out Dale, and the bug-eyed Rocker reactions were edited in from other moments at TC. She was saying that to comfort Rocker, not because she's a moron who didn't understand she was warning him.
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Oct 9, 2014 14:51
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Context posted:Wes's stock went up for me a bit this episode. He had some nice moments with his dad in the reward challenge, and did a good job of answering two questions from Jeff at TC without raising John's suspicions (and I felt like Jeff's questions might have been specifically Natalie was amazing, she told the other tribe to get rid of their strongest competitor - and they did!
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Oct 9, 2014 15:34
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Pinterest Mom posted:
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Oct 9, 2014 16:49
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Pinterest Mom posted:We've seen two gross misogynistic comments from him in two episodes, one of them directed at his girlfriend. He's a toxic person, and I'm glad he's gone. Seriously. What is with all this weird Rocker defending. Dude was a bad sport and a creep even on the show. I'm also not seeing anywhere near the blandness that everyone else is seeing. *Before* the season started I would probably have agreed, but having seen a few episodes this is nothing like One World. (Things could still go to poo poo, but so far this is feeling comfortably in the middle for me, nowhere near the best or worst)
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Oct 9, 2014 16:52
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King Burgundy posted:Seriously. What is with all this weird Rocker defending. Dude was a bad sport and a creep even on the show. it's not that strange, this is the forum that overwhelmingly enjoys Russell 
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Oct 9, 2014 16:56
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blue squares posted:And you know this how? I can tell from some of the pixels. We know TC contestant reactions are very often spliced in from other parts of TC. We know Jaclyn isn't an idiot, probably. We know the editors had a stake in making us think Rocker was getting suspicious and might play an idol. It seems overwhelmingly likely to me that that's what happened, but figuring out what actually happened at TC in hindsight after taking into account what happened, what the editors wanted us to think at the time, and how dumb or not dumb the contestants are is really more of an art than a science. Pinterest Mom fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 17:08
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King Burgundy posted:Seriously. What is with all this weird Rocker defending. Dude was a bad sport and a creep even on the show. Rocker wasn't any more of a poor sport than a lot of other alpha male dickbags who have been on this show. He just got more poo poo for it because of stuff he said 15 years ago completely unrelated to the game of Survivor. Jeremy was mad that his wife is stupid and chose to believe that his wife was eliminated because Rocker hates blacks than because his wife is one of the shittiest players in the history of Survivor. Add to that the fact that Rocker's loudest opposition was the chief supporter of the woman who couldn't shut up about how gay men are basically women and I think it's easy to see why people would disagree with what happened. Rocker seems like he's still probably an everyday piece of poo poo, but he really didn't do anything that bad in the game. Thinking what Jeremy and Natalie did was awful bullshit doesn't mean I'm a champion for John Rocker. He was an entertaining player. I don't have any desire to see him prosper as a human being. He still didn't do anything to warrant the horseshit that happened after the challenge.
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Oct 9, 2014 17:11
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sportsgenius86 posted:Rocker wasn't any more of a poor sport than a lot of other alpha male dickbags who have been on this show. And we don't defend any of those other alpha male dickbags either. They all suck. sportsgenius86 posted:Jeremy was mad that his wife is stupid and chose to believe that his wife was eliminated because Rocker hates blacks than because his wife is one of the shittiest players in the history of Survivor. Uh wow. Can you point me to the part in the episode where any of this happened? You seem to be inventing a narrative here. Jeremy has no way to know that his wife was a moron. All he knows is someone made him a promise and didn't keep it. His airing of Rocker's dirty laundry isn't because he thinks that is the reason his wife went home. Nothing of the sort was ever said. He's doing it as revenge for the dude not keeping his promise. sportsgenius86 posted:Add to that the fact that Rocker's loudest opposition was the chief supporter of the woman who couldn't shut up about how gay men are basically women and I think it's easy to see why people would disagree with what happened. Rocker seems like he's still probably an everyday piece of poo poo, but he really didn't do anything that bad in the game. The first part of this is fair. But I disagree with Rocker not doing anything bad. No matter who you are in the game, he did bad things. Looking just at his tribe: A)If you one of the women on his tribe - He is part of the alliance trying to vote you out. B)If you are part of his all male alliance - He worked behind your back with Val, one of the people outside your alliance. He also worked with someone on the other tribe potentially against your interests. He also found an idol and didn't trust you/tell you about it. C)If you are anyone on his tribe - He is stirring up animosity against your tribe beyond simple us vs them. This could have bad repercussions for your game later, especially since you are down numbers. Mind you, although I think Josh was justified in making this vote out happen, I'm not sure if it was the right move. Rocker would have been great to have with you at the end of the game if you could make that happen. sportsgenius86 posted:Thinking what Jeremy and Natalie did was awful bullshit doesn't mean I'm a champion for John Rocker. He was an entertaining player. I don't have any desire to see him prosper as a human being. He still didn't do anything to warrant the horseshit that happened after the challenge. I agree that Natalie's attack seemed really weird in the moment. I disagree that anything Jeremy did was uncalled for and I think you are making poo poo up to make that connection. I admit to a Jeremy bias though, he's my favorite player at the moment.
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Oct 9, 2014 17:30
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TheChad posted:There has never been a more perfect goat than John Rocker, what a waste of a potential asset. There are two parts to being a good goat, being an unlikeable rear end in a top hat incapable of winning the money is only half of it. A good goat like a Phillip is also someone who will fall in line and behave predictably as you drag them through the game. John Rocker had the first part, but he's not really someone who will meekly fall in line and do what you want. If John Rocker is still around with 3-4 tribal councils to go absolutely try to drag him the rest of the way, but trying to drag someone like him from start to finish is a good way to end up with a Shamar-like situation. He was more useful as a human shield for those first couple uncertain votes right after the merge, especially with the Blood vs Water twist likely making the post merge a little more fluid than usual. Trying to drag him from start to finish would probably be overextending.
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Oct 9, 2014 17:55
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Jeremy is developing into my early favorite but I started not liking him so I don't think I'm biased. I thought he was overplaying early but he seems like he might have a good handle of this game. But it's hard to tell since we've seen so little of his tribe. Next week should shine more of a light on them judging by the preview. But yeah, unless I completely skipped a segment of the episode the idea that he assumes Rocker voted out Val because she's black is entirely fantasy and/or speculation. Jeremy was pissed Rocker broke his word. You can call that petty or short sighted or whatever but I never heard him make it about race. And the Rocker defense is bizare, especially since people seem to be missing the fact that his own tribe was upset at his behavior and his #1 fan Wes called him "a virus." Hell, his girlfriend was yelling at him to shut the gently caress up. Rocker is a bigot and a terrible Survivor player but above all else he's an rear end in a top hat. How shocking that being one doesn't get you far in Survivor. Lord knows that's not a lesson we've learned time and time again on this show. And again, he admitted to his alliance that he had been plotting against them to honor a side deal with Jeremy and Val. And then told them he had an idol he'd been keeping secret. Even if he wasn't an rear end in a top hat he still had proven himself untrustworthy and a bad ally you'd have to,be worried about down the line. I think Jaclyn's story is really a mystery. Something no one seems to be mentioning is that when Josh was plotting Rocker's being evicted he never included Jaclyn in the vote count. He had him, Baylor, Wes, and Alec and repeated that a couple of times. It made it seem like Josh purposely was leaving Jaclyn in the dark. Now it's possible she was let in on it before Tribal but it seems at least plausible that she genuinely didn't know what was happening and was talking about the things we did see her involved in: Wes and Alec agreeing that Rocker was a "virus" and Rocker sowing seeds against Dale. After all from what we can tell she has no allies and everyone in that conspiracy had been seen lying to her this episode or in a past one. But really we don't know. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 18:11
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STAC Goat posted:I think Jaclyn's story is really a mystery. Something no one seems to be mentioning is that when Josh was plotting Rocker's being evicted he never included Jaclyn in the vote count. He had him, Baylor, Wes, and Alec and repeated that a couple of times. It made it seem like Josh purposely was leaving Jaclyn in the dark. Now it's possible she was let in on it before Tribal but it seems at least plausible that she genuinely didn't know what was happening and was talking about the things we did see her involved in: Wes and Alec agreeing that Rocker was a "virus" and Rocker sowing seeds against Dale. After all from what we can tell she has no allies and everyone in that conspiracy had been seen lying to her this episode or in a past one. I was really confused about why they left Jaclyn out and instead brought Alec in. They knew Jaclyn would have no problems voting for John, but Alec might. I think Jaclyn knew though, as she ended up voting for John and not Dale. If she didn't know, she would have to be a grade A moron to change her vote from Dale to John just because she hates the dude.
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Oct 9, 2014 18:19
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STAC Goat posted:But yeah, unless I completely skipped a segment of the episode the idea that he assumes Rocker voted out Val because she's black is entirely fantasy and/or speculation. There was a confessional where he went off on a rant about Rocker being a racist/sexist shithead and drew a connection to his wife getting voted out. He didn't outright say "Rocker voted out Val because she's black" but he did imply it was suspicious a tribe lead by John Rocker would vote out the strong black woman. It was kind of hilarious that the entire other tribe was so convinced Rocker was in charge.
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Oct 9, 2014 18:27
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Well as soon as Rocker walked away Jaclyn and Baylor both said "I don't want Dale gone, I want John gone." So Jaclyn never seemed interested in the Dale plan and we don't know what happened with it beyond that point. Rocker didn't do a very good job selling the girls that the votes were there and Baylor seems like the type who would have run to Josh or some of the other guys and told them what Rocker had done to try and sow seeds of discontent. But Dale seemed just as blindsided by what happened so it seems that he never got wind of Rocker's weird games. Like I said, Jaclyn's mindset and gameplan coming into this Tribal seems a total mystery. It's possible Baylor or someone tipped her off and she knew there'd be five votes for Rocker and just ran her mouth off. It's also possible that she was in the dark and was just hoping all the anti-Rocker sentiment had taken root and would just make a vote happen even without a plan. I'm tempted to say that Jaclyn proved she runs off at the mouth so might have been kept in the dark for that very reason, but that seems a little unfair to me since it seems likely that she had no idea Rocker had an idol. If Josh and Baylor had told Jaclyn the plan including that Rocker had an idol so he had to feel safe then she might have kept her mouth shut in Tribal. But I have no idea because Jaclyn seems weirdly outside of anything on her tribe according to the edit.
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Oct 9, 2014 18:29
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Jaclyn is not part of Josh's alliance so he didn't count her. Baylor likely told Jaclyn to vote Jon. This isn't rocket science.
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Oct 9, 2014 18:45
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DaisyDanger posted:I was really confused about why they left Jaclyn out and instead brought Alec in. They knew Jaclyn would have no problems voting for John, but Alec might. Well, the audience for that conversation and argument was Wes, so we as viewers can't take it at precisely face value. Josh had to sell it to Wes in a way that would convince him to jump on board. You can't sell a Josh+Baylor+Jaclyn+Wes vote to Wes, because Wes can tell he's on the bottom of that totem pole and won't go along. It has to be Josh+Wes+Alec+Baylor vote, because then Wes can feel secure that the men's alliance is still in control and he'll be willing to go along with the plan.
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Oct 9, 2014 18:48
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STAC Goat posted:Jeremy is developing into my early favorite but I started not liking him so I don't think I'm biased. I thought he was overplaying early but he seems like he might have a good handle of this game. But it's hard to tell since we've seen so little of his tribe. Next week should shine more of a light on them judging by the preview. While Jeremy didn't say that Rocker shafted his wife cuz she's black, he definitely did try to play it off like it may have been a factor to his tribe and acted like he was all morally outraged about Rocker when the episode previous he was willing to have a season long alliance with him. Assuming he did actually believe it is about as valid as people buying into the whole Rocker being some huge corrosive influence on his tribe narrative that it benefited the tribemates blindsiding him to establish. I don't remember any scenes of him causing drama with his tribe, the only time he said anything confrontational to anyone was when the other tribe relentlessly attacked him. I don't see the producers leaving any Rocker drama footage on the cutting room floor, they'd be all over that poo poo. So, what, the cameramen missed all that stuff?
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Oct 9, 2014 18:50
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As has been mentioned, Jeremy's initial reaction to why his wife was gone was that John led a charge to boot her, at which point he went into the past poo poo again. It's not hard to figure out what was going on. Had he simply been mad that John didn't do more to save her, I'd get it. The fact that he literally thought John was leading the campaign to oust Val makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever unless he thought it was racially motivated. There's a massive difference between "John didn't try hard enough" and "John is running the show over there." I thought it was extremely clear from his train of thought that, in Jeremy's mind, the only possible reason he could find for Val being voted out was "the racist pitcher convinced everyone to get rid of the black lady." Otherwise, there's no reason at all to just immediately assume John was the power player. Also, my take on the "virus" comment was that it had less to do with how Rocker was with his own tribe and more to do with how he was being perceived by the other tribe and nobody wanting to have a group of people see them as Rocker sympathizers, especially when they don't have numbers on their side.
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Oct 9, 2014 18:54
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sportsgenius86 posted:I thought it was extremely clear from his train of thought that, in Jeremy's mind, the only possible reason he could find for Val being voted out was "the racist pitcher convinced everyone to get rid of the black lady." Otherwise, there's no reason at all to just immediately assume John was the power player. STAC Goat posted:And then told them he had an idol he'd been keeping secret. Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 18:54
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Fast Luck posted:^Did Jeremy really say Rocker had led the campaign to boot his wife? He blamed it on all the men before the RC started, then when they got back to camp, was going on about him "running the show" before he divulged all the past comments. He literally went directly from "he's running the show" to the racial comments.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:02
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Fast Luck posted:He told them about that idol pretty quickly, to be fair. He hadn't had it for long and he didn't have to tell them about it either. He told them about the idol after having led the charge for a risky play that almost backfired in the previous tribal council that only made sense if he didn't have an idol and Val did. Josh came very close to losing his top ally because Rocker wanted to do a split vote that depended on Val having an idol. He's going to feel betrayed by that alone, let alone knowing that Rocker was apparently secretly scheming to save Val. Pinterest Mom fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 19:04
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My rules for idols is simple. Either don't tell anyone you have one or tell your allies right away. Either way has its pros and cons but the dumbest thing to do is say "oh, by the way, ally, I have this idol and I didn't trust you enough to tell you before." All that does is breed mistrust. That's why I'm always against people lying about who they are at the start of the game like Rocker did. Because when you're found out you're just exposed as a liar and schemer and that's a label that will be hard to shake in this game. In and of itself the idol confession might not have been a big deal but when coupled with "oh yeah, I was scheming with the person we just evicted to keep her safe against the alliance's plan" then it's poison.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:09
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Pinterest Mom posted:He told them about the idol after having led the charge for a risky play that almost backfired in the previous tribal council that only made sense if he didn't have an idol and Val did.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:45
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Last week Val could have tried to use the knowledge from Rocker to turn Josh and Baylor on Rocker (which, due to vote splitting, should have been enough). That would have been the big move she so desperately craved. Instead, Val and Jaclyn went after Baylor. Which is humorous because this week Jaclyn was whining about the guys picking off the girls, something she was willing to contribute to. If Baylor had gone off last week, they'd be in virtually the same position, except maybe having a little help from John. I don't think Jaclyn (like Val) has a strong grasp on the game and she was probably legitimately screwing up at council this week.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:50
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King Burgundy posted:Jeremy has no way to know that his wife was a moron. He'd have to be pretty oblivious to not have picked up on that by now.
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Oct 9, 2014 22:10
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The biggest surprise this episode was finding out that Val's plan last week actually almost worked. I assumed it was just clever editing that made it seem like Josh flipped his vote at the last second after seeing Rocker talk to Val, and that the vote was always supposed to be a 4-4 vote. Interesting that Josh really did save Baylor from his alliance's own stupidity and bad math skills. I don't know if that means Josh is a *good* player, but it at least convinced me he's the only competent guy on that tribe.
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Oct 10, 2014 00:08
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