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THS posted:if you think criticism of american imperialism is "right-of-center" i'm not sure what to tell you I shouldnt mix everyone up. Some people seemed very critical of the democrats as if they shared equal responsibility for going to war. I think that is factually false and was interested in getting into the thought process that gets people to think that way.
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:40 |
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# ? Jun 14, 2024 15:32 |
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THS posted:oh. youre trolling That is the reality though. In a perfect world everything would be powered by sunshine and flowers but its isnt.
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:41 |
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Jst0rm posted:I shouldnt mix everyone up. Some people seemed very critical of the democrats as if they shared equal responsibility for going to war. I think that is factually false and was interested in getting into the thought process that gets people to think that way. I'm sure you could find some blameless individuals but in TYOOL 2014 if you think there is a difference between the parties you are a literal retard
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:42 |
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remember the 2003 anti-war protests. I bet they wish they where wrong!
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:42 |
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VikingSkull posted:I'm sure you could find some blameless individuals but in TYOOL 2014 if you think there is a difference between the parties you are a literal retard Im not talking about 2014 though. Im talking about 2003.
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:44 |
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Jst0rm posted:I shouldnt mix everyone up. Some people seemed very critical of the democrats as if they shared equal responsibility for going to war. I think that is factually false and was interested in getting into the thought process that gets people to think that way. Dems held the Senate in 2003 and Dem votes caused the war.
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:45 |
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the point isnt who shares responsibility for that second iraq war, its who shares responsibility for the imperial system. obama has been pretty militaristic, awful on civil liberties, and this current conflict is escalating fast that democrats opposed republicans for carrying out the same foreign policy which democrats have embraced while they are in power - this harkens back to a reference an earlier poster made about blair and the labour party. the neoliberal reality being that whatever social issues are fought over, the basic imperial plan enjoys a great deal of continuity between establishment parties and it will ultimately destroy us
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:46 |
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THS posted:the point isnt who shares responsibility for that second iraq war, its who shares responsibility for the imperial system. obama has been pretty militaristic, awful on civil liberties, and this current conflict is escalating fast
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:46 |
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Jst0rm posted:That is the reality though. In a perfect world everything would be powered by sunshine and flowers but its isnt. you have the same logic as dick cheney and im not exaggerating. that is why we went into iraq. if you admit that the united states uses its military power to enforce its economic interests, then i actually applaud your honesty and wisdom. because if you are truly interested in continued american world dominance then these wars are logical in a way
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:47 |
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Miltank posted:Dems held the Senate in 2003 and Dem votes caused the war. United States Senate Party Yeas Nays Republican 48 1 Democratic 29 21 Independent 0 1 TOTALS 77 23 Again the majority of the dems voted no. I just think its odd that there appears to be some revisionist history going on in regards to this stuff when the facts are so available.
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:49 |
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the majority of Dems in the senate voted yes
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:50 |
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Jst0rm posted:United States Senate no its odd that you ignore anything outside the context of a single administration, or anything outside a broader understanding of american foreign policy and the actions of successive administrations over decades you retard
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:50 |
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Miltank posted:the majority of Dems voted yes oh yeah also this lmao
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:51 |
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Christ, Cold War II happened under Obama's watch what's the difference between him and Reagan, really? love banks, propped up and invaded tinpot dictators simultaneously, poked the bear, bailed out Chrysler, lovely inside game but a hell of a jumper it's all there really
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:51 |
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i literally cannot understand the american government as a single entity with its own imperial interests outside of some really stupid short-sighted two party concept, two parties controlled by largely the same aligned interests its not a polar system, friend
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:52 |
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But he makes us feel good!
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:53 |
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THS posted:no its odd that you ignore anything outside the context of a single administration, or anything outside a broader understanding of american foreign policy and the actions of successive administrations over decades you retard Im just asking question. I dont ignore that stuff but I didnt want to meander down a decade of failed policy. I only wanted to get to the bottom of why people though the dems are equally at fault for the war in iraq.
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:54 |
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:54 |
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Jst0rm posted:Im just asking question. I dont ignore that stuff but I didnt want to meander down a decade of failed policy. I only wanted to get to the bottom of why people though the dems are equally at fault for the war in iraq. for the same reason that republicans tear obama up over benghazi where if it had happened under bush they wouldnt have said poo poo
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:54 |
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i dont want to meander down decades of foreign policy because that would shed some light on getting to the bottom of why the democrats are equally at fault for the war in iraq
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:55 |
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Miltank posted:the majority of Dems in the senate voted yes yes sorry. I guess I meant that when looking at the votes its clear to see which party had reservations about going in the first place. To me this doesnt give them "equal blame" as the administration that stretched truths and jumped to connect dots to get us in there.
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:55 |
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Jst0rm posted:Im just asking question. I dont ignore that stuff but I didnt want to meander down a decade of failed policy. I only wanted to get to the bottom of why people though the dems are equally at fault for the war in iraq. because their policies in the administration prior to Bush directly led to a weakened Iraq that was easy pickings for chickenhawk neocons or did you forget that we bombed Iraq for literally the entire duration of the Clinton presidency
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:56 |
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THS posted:the democrats are equally at fault for the war in iraq I guess we just arent going to agree on this point. It will take historians in 300 years to find the real truth. I think we all have lived it too close to really come to any conclusions on it.
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:57 |
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i cant believe im about to do this:fog tripper posted:"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:58 |
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if Gore had been elected* he certainly wouldn't have fallen prey to the same Pentagon wonks post 9/11 nosiree *the election was stolen
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:58 |
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Jst0rm posted:yes sorry. I guess I meant that when looking at the votes its clear to see which party had reservations about going in the first place. To me this doesnt give them "equal blame" as the administration that stretched truths and jumped to connect dots to get us in there. what do you think equal, or less blame, or slightly less blame, or majority-but-not-a-huge-majority, really means in the final ethical calculus of the last couple decades of war in the middle east? are points awarded out in the end?
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 02:59 |
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THS posted:what do you think equal, or less blame, or slightly less blame, or majority-but-not-a-huge-majority, really means in the final ethical calculus of the last couple decades of war in the middle east? are points awarded out in the end? No but I see people make remarks like "lol the dems always blame bush and they are equal" and it never seems correct to me. I understand that you are taking into account the time before 9/11. I personally feel that it was not the correct move to make and I think the majority of that blame falls to bush and his administration.
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 03:02 |
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Jst0rm posted:I guess we just arent going to agree on this point. It will take historians in 300 years to find the real truth. I think we all have lived it too close to really come to any conclusions on it. historians 300 years into the future will agree that there was almost no difference between the two parties and that the 2003 Iraq War was a totally unsurprising product of the military industrial complex and oil interests.
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 03:03 |
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Miltank posted:historians 300 years into the future will agree that there was almost no difference between the two parties and that the 2003 Iraq War was a totally unsurprising product of the military industrial complex and influential oil interests.
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 03:04 |
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now i can get gay married tho
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 03:04 |
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THS posted:now i can get gay married tho tru
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 03:05 |
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kobani stuff courtesy of brown moses - only cause he has the best source of pictures and maps. these are kurds in turkey protesting, and dying, demonstrating against the turkish government not doing poo poo to help kobani
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 03:06 |
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and smoke the weeds but wait until republicans lower the tax on the weeds what say you then leftists
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 03:07 |
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also Kurds continue to own
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 03:07 |
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VikingSkull posted:and smoke the weeds I grow my own?
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 03:08 |
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I grow my own Kurds
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 03:09 |
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THS posted:now i can get gay married tho every time a lib tells me that gay rights is the modern day civil rights movement I smile politely and say "maybe so" but in my head I'm thinking about how hosed we all are.
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 03:10 |
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Miltank posted:every time a lib tells me that gay rights is the modern day civil rights movement I smile politely and say "maybe so" but in my head I'm thinking about how hosed we all are. Thats the downfall of man? lol.
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 03:11 |
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Jst0rm posted:Thats the downfall of man? lol. no its just the fact that this small but important victory is made in the face of rampant imperial militarism and catastrophic climate change its important to a lot of people, its important to me because, well im gay but put in perspective its such a tiny victory that its hard to enjoy it watching the republicans roll over on gay marriage draws a smile from my cynical face tho
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 03:13 |
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# ? Jun 14, 2024 15:32 |
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social issues also don't matter because regardless of which party platform they favor, as soon as the majority of the country supports it it's law so in the social aspect America is a very real democracy in the economic and foreign policy aspects America is a very real imperialistic police state
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# ? Oct 10, 2014 03:16 |