|
suicidesteve posted:You already have 4 maindeck pieces of graveyard hate. I'd cut at least one of each of what you have now. Most of your sideboard should be anti-combo. Without knowing your deck list, it's hard to say. This is my SB right now: 3x Red Blast 2x Cage 1x Jitte 3x Duress 2x Macbre 2x Spellbomb 1x Engineered Plague 1x Golgari Charm So I'm playing a bunch of combo hate in Duress, Blast and Bomb... Already playing plague as it's awesome. I play 1 Deed Main. After that it's a pretty stock Punishing Jund list... Why is Helm good? You would go with grip over grudge? Also, you don't play Life from the Loam? mcmagic fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Oct 20, 2014 |
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 21:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 20:31 |
|
|
jassi007 posted:searing blaze is a guaranteed 3 to them (running 8-10 fetches) blood is conditional. Blood my delver? nice I vapor snag it to my hand. Blaze it? Well I'll take 3 no matter what even if I bounce it. You guys may be right about blaze. Though doesnt blaze have to have both targets be valid or it fizzles? Like if the delver is bounced wouldn't it be missing half of the required targets to be legal?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 21:20
|
|
|
Fingers McLongDong posted:You guys may be right about blaze. Though doesnt blaze have to have both targets be valid or it fizzles? Like if the delver is bounced wouldn't it be missing half of the required targets to be legal? It will still deal damage to as many targets as possible. Read the gatherer ruling.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 21:25
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:This is my SB right now: I had Deed main for a while. I ended up turning it into a Golgari Charm, which I liked a little more. Using it to regen my guys against a Nic Fit Deed was when I decided to keep it. Deed is way too good not to have somewhere in the 75 though. Somehow nobody ever expects it. Helm is good because it punishes Rest in Peace, which otherwise really screws you. I have Grip and Grudge in my side. Grip hits Batterskull, Counterbalance, Blood Moon, Top, LED assuming they don't immediately crack it, Leyline of Sanctity, etc. Grip is also better against Miracles. Grudge is better against equipment decks, 12-Post, Tezzeret Merfolk, etc. I'd play Surgical over Faerie Macabre, although it's close - maybe one of each. Surgical has been my MVP sideboard card (mostly because it's the only one I ever draw.) It can win so many games by hitting a key card like Entreat the Angels or Painter's Servant. I don't know if you need 2 Cages. Your matchup against Dredge really shouldn't be that bad, and the only other thing I can think of where it's good is Painter and some Storm (which you'll probably lose to anyway.) and Elves where if they're able to cast Natural Order you're probably losing anyway. You might consider a 2nd Library or if you can afford it, Chains. What's your Thoughtseize/Hymn/Lili count main? I'm at 3/4/4 and I can't see ever needing more than 2 more discard spells in the side. Fingers McLongDong posted:You guys may be right about blaze. Though doesnt blaze have to have both targets be valid or it fizzles? Like if the delver is bounced wouldn't it be missing half of the required targets to be legal? A spell needs all of its targets to be cast and it needs one legal target to resolve. So Searing Blaze needs a player and a creature belonging to that player to be cast. It only needs one of those targets to resolve. So if the creature bounces or the player gains Hexproof/pro-red, it'll still resolve but it will only hit what it can. suicidesteve fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Oct 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 21:34
|
|
|
jassi007 posted:searing blaze is a guaranteed 3 to them (running 8-10 fetches) blood is conditional. Blood my delver? nice I vapor snag it to my hand. Blaze it? Well I'll take 3 no matter what even if I bounce it. If you vapor snag a delver you're still losing a life and taking a pretty big tempo loss so
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 21:41
|
|
|
suicidesteve posted:I had Deed main for a while. I ended up turning it into a Golgari Charm, which I liked a little more. Using it to regen my guys against a Nic Fit Deed was when I decided to keep it. Deed is way too good not to have somewhere in the 75 though. Somehow nobody ever expects it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 21:45
|
|
|
suicidesteve posted:A spell needs all of its targets to be cast and it needs one legal target to resolve. So Searing Blaze needs a player and a creature belonging to that player to be cast. It only needs one of those targets to resolve. So if the creature bounces or the player gains Hexproof/pro-red, it'll still resolve but it will only hit what it can. Thanks for clarifying! Different topic, has anyone had any experience with trying any modern death and taxes lists? This one 4-0'd a daily a couple days ago: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/248814#online I've seen some variations but they're all pretty close. Seems fun and it's really cheap on modo with some very reusable cards.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 21:50
|
|
|
Fingers McLongDong posted:Different topic, has anyone had any experience with trying any modern death and taxes lists? This one 4-0'd a daily a couple days ago: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/248814#online In Modern because you don't have Wasteland and Port it's an extremely meta-reading-dependent deck. My list wasn't optimized to face so many Pod opponents so I got my rear end handed to me and it felt horrible. For example I see these lists are running Dryad Militant over Judge's Familiar in the 1-drop slot and one has Spirit main and the other has a full playset of Revokers. I feel like I should drop the hundo into MTGO and build it so I can do more testing and get better at actually playing the deck because I mostly play WB Tokens right now when I'm playing at the local shop.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 22:45
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:4/3/4 right now. Doesn't cage shut down Natural Order? Haha I didn't think of Helm vs Rest in Peace, thats awesome. They die to their own hate. But doesn't that seem a tad bit like goldfishing? Cage shuts down NO, but you really don't want to let them get to a place where they can cast it anyway. If Elves are at 4 mana + creatures, the game has probably gotten away from you. It does stop stuff like fetch Arbor, but you're pretty well equipped to punish that play anyway. Maybe Helm is a bit silly/unfair/uninteractive/whatever, but there's just going to be some free wins from it. And they'll all be against decks that have Swords, which is otherwise really hard to beat. They have a 2 mana card that shuts half of your threats off, it's only fair you have a 4 mana card to kill them for it. Plus imagine the look on their face when they realize they got next leveled. It also serves double duty against Sneak and Show/12-Post if you want to be really ballsy about it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 22:55
|
|
|
Boco_T posted:I built the deck but took a version splashing blue to a TCG States and went 0-3 so I have been off it for a while. It's pretty weird to see neither of the two 4-0 list represented on that page running any Restoration Angels at all. Yeah I find no resto angels to be kinda weird but if it's putting up better results than the other versions I'll try without first. Cheaper without too. There seems to be a lot of variation on the deck, like with the revokers. With a lot of affinity and pod around though the revokers make sense.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 23:13
|
|
|
TheKingofSprings posted:If you vapor snag a delver you're still losing a life and taking a pretty big tempo loss so The circumstances where taking 1 dmg vs. 3 and not losing a creature is the wrong play are few and far between
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 00:30
|
|
|
suicidesteve posted:Cage shuts down NO, but you really don't want to let them get to a place where they can cast it anyway. If Elves are at 4 mana + creatures, the game has probably gotten away from you. It does stop stuff like fetch Arbor, but you're pretty well equipped to punish that play anyway. After playing tonight I feel like I need surgicals just to deal with Treasure Cruise...
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 04:23
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:After playing tonight I feel like I need surgicals just to deal with Treasure Cruise... Yeah. I posted the other week how I lost a game against burn with 0 cards in hand, 3 lands, and nothing else in play, and dead on board with me at 9 life and 2 cards in hand to a topdecked Cruise. I can't wait for it to get banned so I can go back to playing Magic.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 04:53
|
|
|
jassi007 posted:The real debate for me is 4 gitaxian probe or not. I'm not sure if I like modern burn or modern delver better. I'm thinking of fiddling with delver to be a bit less counter heavy and more aggro. Modern Delver is sweet - here is my UWR ~Jeskai~ version I'm working on. 4 Delvers 4 Swiftspears 4 Young Peezy 4 Bolt 4 Helix 4 Serum Visions 4 Sleight of Hand 4 Remand 3 Spell Pierce 3 Path to Exile 2 Boros Charm 2 Treasure Cruise 18 Lands IIRC it's 2 Seachrome 2 Steam Vents 1 Hallowed Fountain 1 Sacred Foundry 2 Island 1 Plains 1 Mountain 8 Fetches I originally ran Geist of St Traft and Electrolyse, but took them out to go a bit more aggro and low to the ground, and play more cantrips to smooth the deck out. It is a lot more burn-heavy than legacy delver, and runs like a glorified burn deck that doesn't fold to turn 3-4 combos. It has a fair bit of game against Ascendancy storm, too. Boros Charm might be the best card in the deck, as it can shut down Anger of the Gods and 'counter' Abrupt Decay, or just go as 4 to the face. If you wanted to go for even less counter magic, then Steppe Lynx would probably be good, although you might need more lands? I also kinda want to try Jeskai Charm, as +1/+1 and Lifelink seems amazing and gross against race situations, or the bounce for massive tempo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 09:31
|
|
|
Mondrian posted:Modern Delver is sweet - here is my UWR ~Jeskai~ version I'm working on. I am in agreement that a UWR could work, but I dislike the 4 swiftspears in the deck, they get outclassed very easily and it's not every turn you could make them a 3/4, I think snapcaster mage provides way more flexibility and potential, especially since you are only running 2 cruises. This deck seems to be very much set up to try win against burn. UR Delver's main weakness is that because it's faster than it, can remove all of our onboard threats and we have a lot of possible dead cards against them. Adding 4 helix definitely mitigates the life point loss involved and no vapor snags means that it's not a dead card against them (especially since you can't bounce your own snaps for value in this list) and adding 3 pierces can help with the flurry of burn spells. I'm going to continue to go UR in the meantime, but I like the list, but I would go maybe -2 or 3 swiftspear, +2 or 3 snaps and then cut 4 sleight of hands for 4 probes and maybe 1 pierce for a cruise, though this would be a personal call, if your meta is dominated by red deck wins, then this would be a good delver deck to run.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 14:57
|
|
|
suicidesteve posted:Yeah. I posted the other week how I lost a game against burn with 0 cards in hand, 3 lands, and nothing else in play, and dead on board with me at 9 life and 2 cards in hand to a topdecked Cruise. I can't wait for it to get banned so I can go back to playing Magic. Wait so burn is playing cruise now? lol. I don't think it's unbeatable though. A lot of the decks that play it have a hard time coming back in a game that you have control of even with Cruise. I was able to win against Sultai Delver even though he resolved 3 cruises in one game just because once i was ahead he didn't really have a way of catching back up.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 14:59
|
|
|
Man, there is a lot of burn and UR Delver running around in Modern. Perhaps it is time to dust off my old friend
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 15:29
|
|
|
Here is the latest UW Prison list from this past weekend's Dissolution stream. https://deckbox.org/sets/813813 He doesn't run Revs online though, I guess you cut one Blind Obedience and one Sigil for the 2 Revs. I guess maybe it's not as good in the deck since he's recently cut out Nykthos from his build for New Benalia.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 15:51
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:Wait so burn is playing cruise now? lol. I don't think it's unbeatable though. A lot of the decks that play it have a hard time coming back in a game that you have control of even with Cruise. I was able to win against Sultai Delver even though he resolved 3 cruises in one game just because once i was ahead he didn't really have a way of catching back up. Yeah, I beat BUG Delver that same night through like 6 or 7 Cruises in 3 games. But the fact that BURN is playing blue for one card is pretty telling that the card is broken. Don't even get me started on modern. I've played one deck online in 10 matches that wasn't UR Delver.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 15:52
|
|
|
suicidesteve posted:Yeah, I beat BUG Delver that same night through like 6 or 7 Cruises in 3 games. But the fact that BURN is playing blue for one card is pretty telling that the card is broken. Don't even get me started on modern. I've played one deck online in 10 matches that wasn't UR Delver. Yeah it's completely busted in Modern Delver with Swiftspear. I've been playing Twin for a while now and I'm even thinking of going to Delver just so I can run cruise.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 15:57
|
|
|
Boco_T posted:Here is the latest UW Prison list from this past weekend's Dissolution stream. I was watching the new stream as well. I'm definitely leaving Nykthos in. I don't want another tapped land (even as powerful as scry is) and I've had Nykthos power out some big turns. I am probably shaving a copy since I was ending up with 2 too often. It doesn't really matter because I don't actually play this bad deck but if my store reflects what is going on online with a lot of burn-y strategies, it might be worth it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 16:30
|
|
|
For a different take on burn, why not try  5 colors 4 Goblin Guide 4 Swiftspear 4 Wild Nacatl 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Lightning Helix 4 Boros Charm 4 Tribal Flames 2 Treasure Cruise 2 Lava Spike 4 Wooded Foothills 4 Bloodstained Mires 4 Windswept Heaths 1 Sacred Foundry 1 Blood Crypt 1 Steam Vents 1 Stomping Ground 1 Temple Garden 1 Plains 1 Island 1 Forest Sideboard (WIP): 2 Anger of the Gods 2 Slaughter Games 3 Blood Moon 2 Rest in Peace 2 Wear/Tear 4 Molten Rain (Heavy Scapeshift/Tron meta) It's fast, it's mean, and it's accessible for those without ZEN fetches (although B/R will be switched to R/W when I have the time or inclination.) If you are going to run 2 cmc burn spells, why not try and get them to do 5 damage a piece! Tribal Burn is fun times.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 16:31
|
|
|
suicidesteve posted:Yeah, I beat BUG Delver that same night through like 6 or 7 Cruises in 3 games. But the fact that BURN is playing blue for one card is pretty telling that the card is broken. Don't even get me started on modern. I've played one deck online in 10 matches that wasn't UR Delver. Burn isn't playing it in Legacy; not winning lists at least.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 16:36
|
|
|
Deofuta posted:For a different take on burn, why not try Back when Deathrite was legal, I played a deck like this with Snapcaster so you could Flames, snap, flames. It was so greedy and killed itself half the time, but it was fun.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 16:44
|
|
|
I've spent the past year or so dicking up a Modern brew of my own, slowly accumulating the cards. Started building it right when the Modern format was announced, and with Caw-Blade fresh on my mind, I knew I wanted to play a very sadistic deck. Theros block was the main assembly and tinkering phase, and now along comes Khans. However, I'm considering some revision to its landbase, splashing Green for Life from the Loam, and am restless with the sideboard, so I'd very much appreciate some feedback. I've included some how-it-works info if it helps, and linked to the Gatherer pages for cards that are less immediately recognizable.quote:Maindeck: Info posted:Bloodsoaked Champion is a newly-included 4-of for a reason. Smallpox does a lot of great work in this deck, and being able to consistently grab this guy back over and over is appreciated. This also applies to Plunge into Darkness, offsetting the deck's bite to my life while also letting me dig for cards in a pinch. Liliana's sac ability, anytime I discard (so Bloodsoaked Champion gets double-synergy with Smallpox!) too, though my own sideboarded Anger of the Gods can threaten it. Still, he's undeniably a Champ. The biggest thing on my mind is how to handle the splashes. The deck already splashes White, but there's one Green card and its friend I definitely want to consider. (Although I worry about going off the slippery slope on this one and throwing in Abrupt Decay and just turning into the Jund+Junk deck.) The thing I've been tantalized by is the potential for Life from the Loam and Raven's Crime. I do love me some discard antics, but considering I also run Tectonic Edge and Smallpox, I can see that old combo having very strong synergy with this deck. I only splash White currently however, and worry about being able to incorporate G (probably via Stomping Grounds, though adding a singleton Windswept Heath could be prudent at that point) as well as the Tectonic Edges while not being easily land-screwed or Blood Moon fodder. As I target lands myself, and run Smallpox, I know very well how that can put the screws on a deck fast. That said, Loam and Raven's Crime would empty an opponent's hand constantly, and of course Loam's entire point is to get lands back from my graveyard repeatedly. Dredging into Lingering Souls or Bloodsoaked Champion is an idea that makes me giddy. Being able to Loam back Flagstones of Trokair would even provide a ghetto Plains landfetch with more Smallpox abuse, but of course Loaming back fetchlands period is also powerful. So as you can see, there's some very strong incentives there. Deciding what to cut for Life from the Loam and Raven's Crime entries is going to be tricky, as will balancing the landbase to splash Green. And if I do that, also, need to adjust the sideboard a lot. That's what led me here to you guys. Molten Rain feels useful yet redundant, so I might trim 1 or 2 of it. Eidolon of the Great Revel is no question not something I want to run with Raven's Crime, but makes a good option for switching out with it. But then if I'm retracing Raven's Crime over and over and recasting Loams, I might want to put Young Pyromancer back in...gah.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 16:47
|
|
|
Ville Valo posted:Burn isn't playing it in Legacy; not winning lists at least. It sure is online. And as much as people like to pretend UR Delver isn't burn, it's burn. With Delver. Epee Em posted:I've spent the past year or so dicking up a Modern brew of my own How do you beat a Deceiver Exarch?
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 16:53
|
|
|
suicidesteve posted:It sure is online. And as much as people like to pretend UR Delver isn't burn, it's burn. With Delver. And counterspells. And card draw. (UR Delver isn't burn)
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 16:59
|
|
|
suicidesteve posted:It sure is online. And as much as people like to pretend UR Delver isn't burn, it's burn. With Delver. It's not burn. it's much more interactive and fun to play than burn is.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 17:00
|
|
Ville Valo posted:Burn isn't playing it in Legacy; not winning lists at least. BTW, I asked Jim Davis a while ago why he brought Goblins to the open (he went on to Top 16) despite knowing how poorly positioned it was and after writing that article about how the deck was dead, and he said it was because he didn't have cards for anything else. Him getting 9th place with Burn doesn't really prove for or against Treasure Cruise for the deck since he's skilled enough to Top16 with a ham sandwich. Also consider: finding a burn player willing to drop $400-$750 on paper Volcanic Islands is about as hard as finding a burn player that isn't a scrub, and we're asking for both combined.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 17:59
|
|
|
AnacondaHL posted:BTW, I asked Jim Davis a while ago why he brought Goblins to the open (he went on to Top 16) despite knowing how poorly positioned it was and after writing that article about how the deck was dead, and he said it was because he didn't have cards for anything else. Him getting 9th place with Burn doesn't really prove for or against Treasure Cruise for the deck since he's skilled enough to Top16 with a ham sandwich. I'm pretty sure with 8-10 fetches you can run 1 volcanic 3 cruise. You need to find 1 fetch by turn 3 or 4. Shouldn't be unreasonable
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 18:20
|
|
jassi007 posted:I'm pretty sure with 8-10 fetches you can run 1 volcanic 3 cruise. You need to find 1 fetch by turn 3 or 4. Shouldn't be unreasonable That is unreasonable. You can't just be dead to Wasteland. Almost half your games are going to be 2 land games by Turn 3, meaning if you need to fetch it has to be for the Volc in the first 2 turns (or the Volc is in your hand already). The whole reason of risking Wasteland is to be able to recover from those tempo plays by crushing them under Treasure Cruise. I'm somewhat crazy for wanting only 2 Volcs, 3 is probably more safe since I haven't even considered the interaction with Fireblast, but it's pretty clear that 1 or 4 is not optimal.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 19:01
|
|
|
AnacondaHL posted:Also consider: finding a burn player willing to drop $400-$750 on paper Volcanic Islands is about as hard as finding a burn player that isn't a scrub, and we're asking for both combined. I have a fully foiled out Burn deck, and own a playset of Volcanics (and every other blue dual). I just don't play that deck because it's never the best in the room. Any room. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 21:01
|
|
|
I know that black infect isn't the best infect but it's something I really like. I've managed to finally get some money to be able to make somewhat decent and replace proxies with actual cards. This is what I have, it's for modern. Most of my wins was dumping a bunch of infect on them on one turn with a Mutagenic Growth and/or Funeral Charm so I am going less of a control route and more of just a blaze of glory. I do have enough to get Thoughtseizes and Liliana of the Veils. Deck: Modern Black Infect //Creatures 4 Plague Stinger   4 Phyrexian Crusader 4 Phyrexian Vatmother  //Spells 3 Mutagenic Growth  4 Vampire's Bite 4 Funeral Charm 4 Night's Whisper 4 Victim of Night 4 Inquisition of Kozilek 2 Apostle's Blessing  //Lands 2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 4 Inkmoth Nexus 3 Cathedral of War 14 Swamp //Sideboard 2 Grafdigger's Cage 2 Extirpate 2 Pithing Needle 2 Wrench Mind 3 Disfigure 4 Vampire Nighthawk
do u believe in marigolds fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Oct 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 22:47
|
|
|
Vampire Bite seems solid. Is there anything better than hand ? Myr?
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 23:28
|
|
|
Oraculum Animi posted:I know that black infect isn't the best infect but it's something I really like. I've managed to finally get some money to be able to make somewhat decent and replace proxies with actual cards. This is what I have, it's for modern. Most of my wins was dumping a bunch of infect on them on one turn with a Mutagenic Growth and/or Funeral Charm so I am going less of a control route and more of just a blaze of glory. I do have Raven's Crime and Wrench Mind, I'm also not entirely sure about the sideboard. I'm not sure you have enough infectors to make Hand of the Preator's second ability that great so Vatmother might be a better creature in that spot. Runechanter's pike seems like it could give you a big boost to a single creature since you have a lot of discard/kill spells. Disfigure is a great kill spell and it hits a ton of stuff in modern so you might want to try some of them somewhere. Looking at some infect lists that have done well, http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1207309, http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1216513, and http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1209788 it seems like a more controlly route is doing better, but those lists are all pre-treasure cruise so I don't know how well that route would work now. Mono black just doesnt have enough pump spells to play like the green/bug lists, but Vampire's Bite is a decent amount of pump for the mana.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 23:31
|
|
|
Bugsy posted:I'm not sure you have enough infectors to make Hand of the Preator's second ability that great so Vatmother might be a better creature in that spot. Runechanter's pike seems like it could give you a big boost to a single creature since you have a lot of discard/kill spells. Disfigure is a great kill spell and it hits a ton of stuff in modern so you might want to try some of them somewhere. Mutagenic, Vampire, and Funeral Charm aren't enough? That's not including Praetors and Cathedral's continuous thing. Runechanter Pike and Disfigure are both good suggestions and I'll hem and haw over replacing Preator with Vatmother.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 23:58
|
|
|
Vatmother is just so hard to kill. Hand is good if you have a bunch of two drops with infect. It's not as good when you're riding one guy to victory and killing anything in the way.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 00:06
|
|
|
Deofuta posted:For a different take on burn, why not try That's 56 cards main deck. Rift bolts to finish it out?
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 08:20
|
|
|
Jam four Snapcasters in!
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 15:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 20:31 |
|
|
Snacksmaniac posted:Jam four Snapcasters in! Don't be dumb. Jam four goyfs in it!
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2014 15:24
|
|