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Gabriel Pope posted:If you got a town vibe then why did you vote for him? I'm having a hard time seeing a scum angle behind your apparent change of heart, so I'm not super suspicious, but your play here seems pretty weird so I'm curious.
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Oct 20, 2014 01:28
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Gabriel Pope posted:Note that I still think Dragonatrix is scummy (even moreso than Fathis in my book) and I am not impressed by his jumping on the Fathis bandwagon, and yes, his vote on Kerro is pretty troubling because sticking a 4th vote on someone as a jokevote and then disappearing is really sketchy, but the fact that he was being facetious is not by itself evidence that he's scum. Yet that's the only thing that you keep harping on as justification for your vote. ##vote Dragonatrix
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Oct 20, 2014 01:32
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Fast Luck posted:Carpet Shark and Kerro showing up just after we'd missed the deadline and no lynched is kind of scummy. I've only ever managed to vote by the deadline once in my short mafia career because I'm kind of a terrible person. I will try very hard for the next one, I will even set alarms! Allen Wren posted:Go ahead and vote me, whatever. If I start voting at people, I'm scum. If I tell people to not vote, I'm scum. If I think someone is scum, I'm scum. Fathis Munk posted:I still love how my posting put me on the suspect list and then my not posting put me even higher on it I don't know how all you newest of newbie guys are actually feeling right now (I mean, you could just be pulling a scum ploy), but I get that it is hard playing your first game! My last game people were telling me I shouldn't care if I was accused of being scum because a town player would be focused on catching scum, not being defensive. I don't think that's a great thing to say to brand new players who are probably confused as to what the hell to do, but I think I get the general sentiment now. This game is a game of information that doesn't require one player to survive to the end to be an important part of winning! Focusing on what you can contribute to catching scum over trying to prove something that can't be proven (i.e. that you are town) is the best thing you can do. I heard someone say something on this topic that really helped me feel clearer about how to play: If you're town and the town votes you out, that's on the town, not you. Don't feel bad that people are casing you, everyone is suspicious of everyone, and if we kill town players off then we haven't done our job (i.e. killed scum). Your job is to contribute what you can to help the town. That way your town buds have more to go off of later, and if they win the game you win with them! Anyway, I hope this wasn't patronizing, I'm just worried people are feeling frustrated right now. I will post actual game-oriented stuff in a little bit.
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Oct 20, 2014 04:03
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Maybe I'll scumhunt tomorrow morining, it's getting too late to think about internet games over here. Though tbh it looks like a lot of you have made your mind up and are going to lynch innocent ol' Fathis so whatever I guess 
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I don't think it's a scum ploy from Allen. I don't see a first time ever player deciding to fake hating the game and self-voting as a scum ploy.
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Oct 20, 2014 04:13
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Fast Luck posted:I don't think it's a scum ploy from Allen. I don't see a first time ever player deciding to fake hating the game and self-voting as a scum ploy. There's nothing to stop a newbie scum player from deciding to take their ball and go home either though, so at best it's a neutral read. I am not swayed at all by his posting before the deadline, although his willingness to self-vote today is a little more convincing--a scum player taking advantage of a likely no-lynch in a last ditch attempt to prove their cred might make some sense, a scum player offering themselves up at the start of a day seems like a bit of a stretch. I don't think it's unthinkable if he and/or his teammates thought the case on him was unsalvageable, but trying to figure out Fathis/Dragonatrix might be a more pressing issue now.
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Oct 20, 2014 04:27
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"At best it's a neutral read"? Really?
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Oct 20, 2014 04:32
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Fast Luck posted:I don't think it's a scum ploy from Allen. I don't see a first time ever player deciding to fake hating the game and self-voting as a scum ploy. It's true, I was trying to make the post general so that anyone reading it and feeling frustrated might gain a little confidence (I used quotes by Fathis and Allen because they seem the most put-out rn), but I also wanted to recognize that there's always the possibility people could be playing us like a fiddle.
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Oct 20, 2014 04:47
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Sorry I don't think self-voting gives you a free pass?
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Oct 20, 2014 04:48
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He didn't just self-vote, he also expressed frustration and basically offered to quit. And I'm not saying that gives him a free pass, I'm questioning that it's a "neutral read" at best.
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Oct 20, 2014 04:49
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I can definitely understand getting frustrated about the game, but I don't think it says anything about alignment cos I'm sure it's just as possible to get frustrated as scum as it is as town. I know it can also feel a bit like 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' at times, but it is a game about paranoia and accusing each other. Also, in regards to Fathis Munk at least, it's not just that posting a lot looks scummy and not posting also looks scummy, it's when, how and in what context these things happen. Posting a lot of no-content posts after people have started playing seriously looks scummy to me because it can derail making cases, and can make it unclear later whether people's votes were jokes or not (see Dragonatrix) which creates confusion which is not helpful for town. Not posting looks scummy when it's closer to deadline or when it's a response to people calling you out for no-content posts since it could easily be just an attempt to slip under the radar now that the heat is on. I tend to play pretty (read: way too) earnestly though cos I love the deduction part of the game, so I am probably biased towards over-interpreting at times.
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Oct 20, 2014 05:03
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I think his frustration and defeatism is genuine, but I don't see how that establishes him as town. Scum players can throw tantrums too.
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Oct 20, 2014 05:07
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I don't think it "establishes him as town" but I am definitely getting a town read. Agree to disagree I guess, but I think you, and Kerro too, I guess, are being overcautious on this. It feels way, way more like new player frustrated as town than it does anything else, to me.
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Oct 20, 2014 05:09
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And I don't mean put him on the perma-town list and never look back, I mean, just admitting that it seems more town than scum. If you don't see it that way then we've definitely got clashing ways of reading the game...
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Oct 20, 2014 05:10
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I really just don't know what the gently caress, because he melted down at practically nothing. If he had been close to being lynched I would agree with your read more but throwing yourself on the ground and sulking at the first sign of suspicion doesn't really read as anything, just plain batshit.
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Oct 20, 2014 05:36
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I would like Dragonatrix to clarify whether he believed or did not believe he saw a scum slip.
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Oct 20, 2014 14:02
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no i do not think either kerros very blatant uncertainty or hiipfires joke were in fact scumslips glad i could help you better understand this thing called "jokes"
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Oct 20, 2014 14:48
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Fathis Munk posted:I still love how my posting put me on the suspect list and then my not posting put me even higher on it This attitude is not exactly helping! Also, where'd Epsilon Plus go? They haven't posted since Friday morning.
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Oct 20, 2014 20:45
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I really loving hate D1 and D2 is just falling at a bad time for me. My presence should be more visible from here on.
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Oct 20, 2014 22:08
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Gabriel Pope posted:This attitude is not exactly helping! Eh, there is nothing I can actually say to defend myself and I don't have time to sit down and think correctly about this game right now, shitload of work got dropped on me  Defending my case only makes me seem more scummy, what am I going to do, yell "I'm not scum, I promise ?" I think I'll just stay my suicidal course that is simply 2dumb4scum.
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Oct 20, 2014 22:15
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Fathis Munk posted:Eh, there is nothing I can actually say to defend myself and I don't have time to sit down and think correctly about this game right now, shitload of work got dropped on me Everybody is scummy. The point of the game is not to prove that you aren't scum (because you can't), it's to try to figure out who the most likely scum are.
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Oct 20, 2014 22:23
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Yeah, I dunno if some people are just not interested in the game or are waiting for something to happen that directly involves them (like being voted) but the more people we have making cases and sharing their thoughts about who they think are scum the better. Having only a few people contributing tends to mean that certain people don't get looked at at all which is not good for finding scum. Like I have basically zero read at the moment on hiipfire, Toaster, Pez or Epsilon so it'd be really good to hear more from you guys. And if people are getting frustrated about being voted, try and ignore it and focus on working out who else you think is scum.
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Oct 21, 2014 03:54
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I made my case and voted already for the day. I just prefer being simple instead of talking myself out of who I am voting for. I'll try to post more. I still think Blacknyte is flip flopping to cause confusion and another no-vote.
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Oct 21, 2014 12:45
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##vote allen wren lol
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Oct 21, 2014 12:56
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Pez posted:I still think Blacknyte is flip flopping to cause confusion and another no-vote. i sorta think the opposite atm looks more to me like hes flipflopping a lot more because hes confused and unsure about how to work things out right now so hes just running with the first thing he could latch onto for the time being maybe hes scum maybe hes not but right now my gut says confused newbie town
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Oct 21, 2014 13:21
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that freakout seems fake tbh
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Oct 21, 2014 13:23
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talking about allen btw
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Oct 21, 2014 13:24
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Make up your mind about Allen!
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Oct 21, 2014 15:54
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Gabriel Pope posted:Make up your mind about Allen!
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Oct 21, 2014 16:04
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HiipFire posted:FINE I HATE HIM OKAY?! This is cool and fine opinion to have but your unvote before the deadline was still pretty weird.
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Oct 21, 2014 16:07
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Yo guys, sorry I haven't been too active in here, I have done a terrible thing and started playing the awful video game World of Spergcraft again. Anyway I'd like to read through the whole thread again before the next deadline to get a better read on everybody, but for right now I'll just throw out a few (probably bad) opinions real quick. HiipFire posted:that freakout seems fake tbh Fathis Munk posted:Eh, there is nothing I can actually say to defend myself and I don't have time to sit down and think correctly about this game right now, shitload of work got dropped on me Dragonatrix posted:i sorta think the opposite atm looks more to me like hes flipflopping a lot more because hes confused and unsure about how to work things out right now so hes just running with the first thing he could latch onto for the time being I agree with you on blacknyte. He just seems confused as he's new to the game and apparently English isn't his first language. (though I guess that could also just be a made up excuse for acting weird if he's scum since he's new around here and doesn't have any post history) Anyway right now, for lack of anyone else who I feel is particularly scummy I think Gabriel Pope seems like a good candidate. He's claimed that 7 different people were suspicious at one point or another (though a couple were jokephase):
Maybe he's town and just really actively trying to scumhunt but to me it kind of feels like he's just jumping on anything he can to keep suspicion on everyone but himself.
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Oct 21, 2014 16:19
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Gabriel Pope is one of the most active posters in the thread so far, which may explain that partly, but yes, he could be scum and that could be his play. However, I'd prefer giving someone like Gabriel the benefit of the doubt unless you have a good case. At least active people can be counted on to vote by the deadline. (I'm kind of caught up on the no lynch from D1 and the growing fear that it could happen again, just judging by activity in the thread and the complete lack of consensus right now.) As for Allen, I've said I think he's town... but I also think he is going to be very unhelpful town. Like, he announced he was voting for himself before the deadline D1, and then announced it again start of D2, and then peaced out. Is he going to not vote/self-vote for the rest of the game? Anyone know the best way to handle that?
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Oct 21, 2014 19:31
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OK ive gone through the gabriel's posting in response to atrocioustoaster's post. Well i picked up on something maybe. gonna throw it out there and see what yall think.Pez posted:Why is everyone voting for Kerro? Fathis Munk is the one that's being suspicious, talking all murdery one minute and peaceful the next. Not to mention stumbling over his post syntax. Rock the vote! Gabriel Pope posted:You're not looking so doughy yourself, friend. Openly fence-sitting and then trying to deflect suspicion from someone else when the pressure starts to build? I've got my eye on Fathis too but right now you're looking like a better suspect for Kerro's scumbuddy. Gabriel Pope posted:I said straight up that I was just trying to provoke some action, in case it wasn't already clear. We haven't really gotten much out of it except Fathis and Dragonatrix's bandwagon votes and they both read as too jokey for me to seriously suspect them, but it's a start. Gabriel Pope posted:Allen Wren would apparently prefer we just talk about toasters for another 24 hours. Gabriel Pope posted:I agree that Fathis is suspicious and voting him is preferable to a no-lynch (or most other lynch votes) but I think we have better candidates. Fathis has been pretty willing to put himself out there and although he hasn't contributed a lot he is still participating more than a lot of our lurkers. Kerro posted:However, I feel totally convinced about ##vote Fathis Munk. I already felt it was likely that one of him and Dragon were scum, and the fact that he left the vote on me after it was clear that that wasn't happening and then disappeared until deadline makes me think he was counting on either a last-minute switch to me due to a lack of better options, or more likely a no-lynch which is scummy as gently caress, especially since he acknowledged that some of the arguments seemed convincing but chose not to comment further or vote on them anyway. Gabriel Pope posted:I was expecting Fathis to post yesterday and now that you mention it his silence is pretty suspicious. He did say he was posting from work and I generally expect less consistent posting on the weekend, but I am liking the case on him a lot more. I should note that Dragonatrix did basically the same thing with their vote though. Gabriel Pope posted:Note that I still think Dragonatrix is scummy (even moreso than Fathis in my book) and I am not impressed by his jumping on the Fathis bandwagon, and yes, his vote on Kerro is pretty troubling because sticking a 4th vote on someone as a jokevote and then disappearing is really sketchy, but the fact that he was being facetious is not by itself evidence that he's scum. Yet that's the only thing that you keep harping on as justification for your vote. i mean, why is gabe such an apologist for fathis? gabe posts a lot so it wasn't that obvious to me until i specifically went to look what his reads were on fathis and then was like whoa. he's going to pretty great lengths isn't he? at this point i think it might be smart to lynch fathis and check out how he flips. the one post that makes this seem a bit more innocent to me is this one: Gabriel Pope posted:Thank you, that does clear things up. I apologize if I was riding you a bit hard.
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Oct 21, 2014 19:53
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You can do better than this!)
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I don't know but I find it really frustrating. I think people need to remember that you win the game with town even if you've been lynched/NKed yourself, and so even if there's a lynch building on you it's worth putting in the effort to try and find scum. If you are killed and flip town then we know that any of the cases you were making were genuine, and can treat them appropriately - it gives us more to go on in the later days. If you did nothing or just self-voted, then when you die nothing new is revealed.
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Oct 21, 2014 19:55
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Fast Luck posted:OK ive gone through the gabriel's posting in response to atrocioustoaster's post. Well i picked up on something maybe. gonna throw it out there and see what yall think. Hey now whoah. So because this dude seems to have taken a liking to me and thus might be scum you're going to lynch me.  Huh.
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Oct 21, 2014 19:58
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Yeah that last post would seem a little over the top but I could totally see a Fathis/Gabriel Pope/??? scum team. I'd much rather lynch Fathis at this point though but if he flips scum as I expect then Gabriel would be a good follow-up.
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Oct 21, 2014 19:58
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tbh I really underestimated how much effort SA mafia was going to take and this game started in a really bad period for me thus I can't really get my mind together to do serious scum hunting. If you want to lynch me to see me flip town, yeah go ahead. I'll be back to haunt you saying "I toooold you soooo"
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Oct 21, 2014 20:00
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Fathis Munk posted:Hey now whoah. So because this dude seems to have taken a liking to me and thus might be scum you're going to lynch me. FWIW I want to lynch you because you're scum. 
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Oct 21, 2014 20:00
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I'll admit to being a bit hyper in the early stages of D1, I just wanted to get something happening. You'll notice that half of that list got mentioned once on page 2 before we had any leads--I pared it down to Allen/blacknyte/Fathis/Dragonatrix pretty quickly. That list itself has kind of dwindled... I'm off of blacknyte now that his odd posting/voting has been accounted for, I haven't written off Allen yet but he's a lot less pressing now that he's seemingly gone AWOL, and now that Dragonatrix is participating more and being helpful my suspicions have eased up. So my list is pretty much down to Fathis at this point anyhow. I just felt bad because he seemed to want to participate and have a good time playing Mafia.
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Oct 21, 2014 20:08
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Gabriel Pope posted:This is cool and fine opinion to have but your unvote before the deadline was still pretty weird. I didn't read the stupid PA posts he made and I also forget who Allen was when I initially voted for him(which was honestly more to just make the round end in a lynch)
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Oct 21, 2014 20:13
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Kerro posted:Yeah that last post would seem a little over the top but I could totally see a Fathis/Gabriel Pope/??? scum team. I'd much rather lynch Fathis at this point though but if he flips scum as I expect then Gabriel would be a good follow-up. If this happens I preemptively apologize for loving up and making you waste a lynch on me for encouraging a fellow newbie.
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Oct 21, 2014 20:29
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